Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Celebrations Begin Around The World For The Start Of 2023; NYC Preps For Full Capacity Crowd At Times Square New Year's Eve Bash; Over 25 Million Under Flood Watches Across California & Nevada; Lawyer: Suspect Intends To Waive Extradition From Pennsylvania; Massive Manhunt On For 11-Year-Old North Carolina Girl; Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI Dies At The Age Of 95; Trump's Tax Returns Now Public After Years-Long Legal Battle. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired December 31, 2022 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, no, this was great. I look forward to never talking to either of you again or reading your great work, Morgan, but I enjoyed the time I had with you guys before this (INAUDIBLE).

Morgan Moriarty and Coy Wire, big night tonight. Thanks so much, guys.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: You got it.

MATTINGLY: All right, and the next hour of Newsroom starts right now.

Good Saturday morning, and thank you so much for joining me. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Fredricka Whitfield. We're watching several major stories developing at this hour. It's a moment of sadness for millions of Catholics around the world. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI has died at the age of 95. The former pontiff passing away after what the church calls a period of ill health.

Benedict was the first pope to resign as the leader of the church in nearly 600 years, stepping down back in 2013. Also this morning, we're mourning the loss of a TV legend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH DOWNS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Good evening, I'm Hugh Downs.

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: And I'm Barbara Walters, and this is "20/20."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Trailblazing. TV News Anchor Barbara Walters has died. Known for her insightful, sometimes very tough interviews. She became the first female anchor of a network Evening News program and helped pave the way for women in broadcasting. The spokesperson says she passed away surrounded by family at the age of 93. But there are also celebrations this hour as the world welcomes in a new year. Several nations already celebrating as the clock strikes midnight ushering in the start of 2023. And right now, live pics you're seeing from Singapore.

(MUSIC)

MATTINGLY: Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong. If you needed a reason to start early, there you go. It's happening around the world. And in New York City, it'll be happening in a number of hours where a huge crowd is expected to ring in the 2023, the year 2023 in Times Square.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is there. She is live. Gloria, tell me everything. What's it look like right now?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Phil, these crowds are starting to come in now here to Times Square, the biggest party in the world. Tonight, at midnight, when that clock strikes midnight, the ball will come down, the new year will be ushered in, and all of these people cannot wait to see it.

Look at them. They have been lining up for hours, and they're now slowly being allowed in. I've seen some folks running through these gates trying to get a good spot ahead, a couple of streets ahead of us where you can get a close look at the ball. Now, we spoke with the organizers of this big party that's the Times Square Alliance, which puts this event together, talking about why this event is so iconic on this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HARRIS, PRESIDENT, TIMES SQUARE ALLIANCE: Times Square is a symbol of New York City and New York to America and to the world. And tonight, for 1 minute in time, the whole world is -- over a billion people in the world watch that iconic ball descend at the moment of midnight as we ring in 2023 now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, Phil, the NYPD is out in force. This is a promise to be a safe event. Everyone is being screened by police officers and of course, they are out in force here to make sure that this event goes off without a hitch. But people who are lining up now have long hours ahead of them. It is starting to drizzle just a little bit.

The conditions a little bit, you know, worsening, but it is not very cold today, so at least there is that as people stand around and wait the arrival of 2023. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yes, I think the temperature is a decent trade off. 13 hours hanging out those folks behind you. God bless you, man. That is a next level of effort. Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much.

PAZMINO: There is nothing like it.

MATTINGLY: Indeed, indeed. So the big question, Gloria, just brought this up. Will the weather cooperate for tonight's New Year's celebrations? For the forecast, let's go to CNN Meteorologist Allison Chinchar. Allison, what are we looking at?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I think the answer to that depends on exactly which city you're planning on doing some of your outdoor festivities, because, yes, we do actually have a lot of cities with rain in the forecast today. That does include New York, but also Boston, Washington, D.C., Raleigh, even several cities on the West Coast from an entirely different system.

[11:05:13]

We're talking San Francisco, L.A., San Diego, all also looking for rain in the forecast for today. The question is, is it still here at midnight tonight? So let's take a look. Again, as you can see as we go through the rest of the day, especially mainly this afternoon, you've got a lot of that heavy rain moving up and down the Eastern Seaboard.

By 06:00 p.m. tonight, cities like Cleveland and Atlanta finally starting to dry out, so you should be good for your evening festivities. However, once we get close to midnight, take a look. Boston, Hartford and New York still have rain chances in that forecast. Now, it may not be as heavy as it was earlier in the evening, but the rain chance is still there.

For New York City specifically, the heaviest rain likely to come in between that 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. time frame. It will start to lighten up just a little bit the closer we get to midnight, but it may not be out entirely. Focus on the good news here and that's the fact that those temperatures are going to be above average, right around that 50-degree mark.

For some other locations, good weather for the forecast for, say, places like Nashville, Dallas, even around St. Louis. Plenty of dry conditions there. Out on the West Coast, though, we still have the chance for rain for places like L.A. and San Diego. So if you have any outdoor plans there as well, you may want to make sure you have a poncho.

As mentioned, you cannot technically take an umbrella with you to the New York City New Year's Eve Festival, but you can still take a raincoat and it may be a very good thing to have it. Out to the west, here's a look at that secondary system we've been talking about. That's the one that's going to bring rain to the forecast for areas of Los Angeles tonight.

That's going to slowly make its way over into areas of Arizona, Nevada, as well as Utah in the coming days. So again, lots of rain here. Also, want to note that the rain we talked about that may come through tonight during your New Year's Eve festivities also has the potential for flooding. So do please be careful in California, especially in a lot of those areas that pick up three, four, even five inches of rain.

You could be dealing with some flooded roads and that could make you -- have a little bit more delay getting to some of your festivities. MATTINGLY: Yes, important note. Allison Chinchar, as always, thanks so much.

And I feel like I don't even need to tell you this, but stay with CNN, right. Anderson Cooper, Andy Cohen, it's always a party. It's always hilarious, it always goes viral. They ring in the New Year from Times Square. New Year's Eve Live starts at 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Now back to our developing story. The attorney for the suspect in the killings of four University of Idaho students says his client intends to waive extradition. Bryan Kohberger was arrested in Pennsylvania and has been charged with four counts of first-degree murder in those stabbing deaths.

CNN's Jean Casarez is in Monroe County, Pennsylvania, where this arrest was made. And Jean, what does this actually mean for the case?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it means that everything will go much quicker prospectively than it would if he fought extradition. We just got off the phone with the Chief Public Defender of Monroe County, Pennsylvania, Jason LaBar, and he confirmed with us that he will waive that extradition on Tuesday.

The hearing will still take place because a judge has to ask him, the defendant, Bryan Kohberger, if freely and voluntarily, he is waiving that extradition. So it's a very important legal proceeding. But the arrest took place yesterday morning at 1:30 in the morning right here in northeastern Pennsylvania.

Why so far across the country? Because in the press conference yesterday, we heard this is his home, this is where he lives. He does have an apartment, however, in Pullman, Washington. Authorities confirmed that where he is a doctoral student in criminal justice, but he graduated with a master's degree last May right here DeSales University, which is about 10 miles away from here, and that was in criminal justice also.

We're also learning more about him in regard to when he was at DeSales University here in northeastern Pennsylvania, that he volunteered for a research project that had to do with the aspect of emotions and feelings. Someone who is committing a crime, how they go through that emotional experience and how they assess it and assimilate it within them, which is a very interesting aspect to all of this.

But we do know that the search warrant, according to a source close to CNN, that search warrant affidavit, which is sealed now. But we are learning it was based on the DNA that connected him to the crime scene as well as that white car that we have heard about for so long that was spotted in the vicinity near the time that those four students were so brutally murdered.

MATTINGLY: Jean Casarez, great reporting all day on this so far. Thanks so much.

Now, a massive manhunt continues for a missing 11-year-old girl in North Carolina. Police say the hunt for Madalina Cojocari has been hampered by how late police were told of her actual disappearance.

[11:10:08]

Now the girl's mother and stepfather were arrested on December 17 for failing to even report her missing for nearly a month. CNN's Nadia Romero joins us now. And Nadia, where exactly does this investigation stand, given all of those threats?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, it doesn't sound so good right now, Phil. When you look at this entire picture, we know that the parents, as you mentioned, are in jail, in custody right now, and that 11-year-old Madalina Cojocari is still missing.

So let's talk about a timeline here because that's what makes this case so interesting. So you're looking at video from November 21. This was the last time we've been able to capture video of her on surveillance video on a school bus. So that's your first timestamp right there, November 21.

And then you would have to go to November 23, two days later, when we know that she was report -- last seen by her parents. That's at least what her mother told police. She last saw her on November 23. This is a missing person's poster, an alert sent out by the FBI. And you can see pictures of her there, her height, her age, what we know about her.

So the 21st, we see her on the school bus. On the 23rd, her mother says she was last seen. But there's a big gap here, and that's part of the issue. On 11/23 -- November 23, last seen by her parents. But it wasn't until December 15, almost a month later, that she was reported missing by her mother.

She went to the school and told them that she hadn't seen her daughter in weeks. That's only after the school started asking questions like, hey, we haven't seen her. Where's your 11-year-old daughter? We haven't seen her in weeks. The school district then immediately called police.

And then on December 17, both of her parents, her 33-year-old mother and her 60-year-old stepfather were both arrested and pending this charge in North Carolina for not reporting a child missing, which is a crime in the state of North Carolina. You just can't have your kids disappear without saying anything about it. So that's why they're being held.

And now you have this massive manhunt, some 250 leads. Police tell us that they've knocked on more than 200 doors trying to find her, trying to find any surveillance video, photos, anyone who might have seen or heard from her. And Phil, when you think about this timeline, what's also alarming is that we've had major holidays without having Madalina anywhere around.

You had the Thanksgiving holiday, anything, and now Christmas, and still no sign of her. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yes, so many questions. Nadia Romero, thanks so much. It was a massive loss for Catholics worldwide. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI dead at the age of 95. We'll take you live to Rome to discuss his legacy and what we can expect from his funeral.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:01]

MATTINGLY: Catholics all over the world mourning the death of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. The Vatican shared the news early this morning, saying the 95-year-old former pontiff died at his Vatican residence and had recently been in declining health.

Now, in 2013, Benedict became the first pontiff in nearly 600 years to resign his position rather than hold office for life. CNN Vatican Correspondent Delia Gallagher joins me live from St. Peter's Square at the latest. And Delia, the Vatican says Benedict wanted a, quote, simple funeral. What more are you learning about how the next few days will play out?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, let me start by telling you what's happening right now, because Pope Francis is inside St. Peter's Basilica. He's doing vespers. Those are prayers for New Year's Eve. This was already scheduled before the news of Pope Benedict happened, but afterwards he's going to come out here and view the nativity scene, which is right there in the middle of St. Peter's Square.

So that's why you see a lot of people gathering, so they can get a glimpse of Pope Francis and probably we expect to hear something from him at some point this evening, if not tomorrow. He'll also be holding mass for New Year's Day tomorrow.

With regard to Pope Benedict, we know that beginning on Monday, they will have a lying-in state in St. Peter's Basilica. You might remember for John Paul II that happened and the crowds where in, I want to say, millions thronging here in 2005. They will start that on Monday. The funeral is on Thursday, 9:30 in the morning here in St. Peter's Square. So there'll be several days of viewing and people paying respects to Pope Benedict.

I don't imagine that it will be anything like what we saw for John Paul II. He was a different kind of pope. He himself requested a simple mass for his funeral. I don't know if you can do anything very simply at the Vatican, but we'll see how they manage that.

I certainly think Pope Francis will want to give him a proper send off with all of the honors due to a pope. Of course, the big difference being, Phil, that we won't have a conclave after the funeral. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Yes, no, it's a very different moment in that regard. You know, I'm glad I'm talking to you because I was actually thinking earlier this week, Delia, when this appeared to be imminent, trying to kind of think through as a Catholic, what the legacy would be, what the kind of critical key pillars are of the Pope Emeritus's legacy. What's your sense of that? How would you define kind of the key pillars of his papal legacy?

GALLAGHER: Well, I would, first of all, say there's a difference between his papal legacy and his legacy as a whole. You have to remember that Pope Benedict, he was pope for eight years, but he was a major figure in the Catholic Church for many years before that.

One of the most important things about him is he was the last person to participate in the Second Vatican Council, the last living pope or cardinal. And that was a major moment in the life of the 20th century of the Catholic Church. And he was an intellectual, Phil. So his real legacy is about the writings that he did, the theology, as we say.

You know, what he himself said he thought the most important thing was about people continuing to believe in God, finding a way to understand God. And that God stay in this world, remember, that he lived through the Nazi regime. He lived through communism. His personal experience was one of regimes that wanted to get rid of belief in God.

And he saw the totalitarian sort of vacuum that was created for that, the sort of search for power, if one didn't believe in a God, that was his whole point. Then we could talk about his papacy and some of the things he himself said. He wasn't a good manager, but he still managed to do many things during his papacy. But his legacy, I believe, is in his writings, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, no question. A theologian and such a great point that when he was cardinal before, before he even reached kind of the the ultimate in the faith, he had done so much, been involved in so much. Been such a critical player.

Delia Gallagher, thanks so much for the perspective. I really appreciate it.

Coming up next, a never before seen look at Donald Trump's taxes. House Democrats making six years of the former president's financials public capping off a dramatic years long legal fight.

[11:20:05]

And as we take a break, we'll look at celebrations in Hong Kong as the New Year is being rung in around the world.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: After years of empty commitments, countless investigations, and a legal battle that went all the way up to the Supreme Court, the Democratic led House Ways and Means Committee finally released six years of former PresidentTrump's tax returns on Friday.

Now, among the revelations in the redacted documents, the former president has paid very little on federal income taxes over the years. He also claimed and carried huge losses that practically eliminated his tax burden and claimed questionable loan agreements with his children. Some Republicans dismissing the release as political, while Trump argues that the documents should not have been released at all. The disclosures, however, are now raising fresh scrutiny about his wealth and his income. That's important to remember that President Trump vowed to follow precedent and release his tax returns well before declaring for his 2016 candidacy. Since then, he's consistently cited an ongoing audit for the reason for his failing to follow through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm under a routine audit and it'll be released. And as soon as the audit is finished, it'll be released.

[11:25:03]

I called my accountants under audit, I'm going to release them as soon as we can. I want to do it and it will show how successful, how great this company is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The audit thing was never, like, a real excuse. That aside, though, joining me now to breakdown the actual taxes themselves is Steve Rosenthal, he's a Senior Fellow at Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, spent years studying Trump's taxes, and is a preeminent tax expert here to explain all the things I can't understand when I was looking at these documents yesterday.

Steve, so much has been made about the former president's taxes since 2015. Republicans have clearly criticized the release as a political effort. But big picture here. When you think about the broader context, why does this matter?

STEVE ROSENTHAL, SENIOR FELLOW, URBAN-BROOKINGS TAX POLICY CENTER: Well, Trump pays very few taxes. We saw in the 2015 to 2020 period, zero taxes in 2020, and really negligible taxes earlier. Looking back over three decades, Trump's paid very, very few taxes. And it's important, actually, to see the returns that the committee released, because tax returns are a window into a person's financial character.

We learn whether a person is generous, whether a person has financial conflicts, whether a person views taxes as a shared responsibility or a sport. All these are really important questions that the public deserves to have an answer to.

MATTINGLY: Do you believe, you know, the ability to essentially not pay much for any tax over several years or more? Is that a tax code issue or is that an individual's issue? And what I'm saying here is he's just operating within the context of the law, or is there possible something else going on here?

ROSENTHAL: So, from my practice experience, Trump's efforts here are an outlier. He pays very few taxes because his businesses lose money year after year, $8 to $16 million each year from the period 2015 to 2020. And if you go back to the 1990s and 2000s, he loses tens and hundreds of millions of dollars.

Now, we can't tell precisely with the most recent years, how many of those losses are genuine and how many are fake. But when I've looked closely at the losses from the 1990s and the 2000s, they look inflated. This is not a lawful application of law. This is not depreciation. This is aggressive tax avoidance by somebody who fights with the IRS, obstructs and delays. And unfortunately, our IRS is not a good match for President Trump or many rich people.

MATTINGLY: When you -- I mean, given your knowledge base, given your study and research of the former president's taxes leading up to this period of time, what did you see in here that surprised -- was there anything you saw that surprised you, that you felt like was new from what we learned, say, from the New York Times investigation or other leaks or elements of this that have come out over the years?

ROSENTHAL: Well, just seeing the numbers, the New York Times reports stopped at 2017, but going through 2020, the story remains the same. We also learned about foreign accounts, including foreign accounts in China that ended in 2017 after Trump took office. And so, there's a lot to plummet.

But one of the fascinating things is that we're not just reading the New York Times, but the IRS is also. And so the IRS was sitting around reading the paper and actually drafting its audit plan. You know, it's almost as if the New York Times reporters are better auditors than the IRS because the IRS was incredibly ineffective at overseeing Trump's taxes.

MATTINGLY: You know, the Democrats could have explained the rationale is they needed a legislative purpose. They talked about legislative purposes, how you can fix things in terms of this process, both for future candidates but also, I think, more broadly on the tax code. When you look at this and you watch how these years have played out in this battle, what do you think should be done to address either the candidate and campaign issue, or more broadly about the tax code generally?

ROSENTHAL: Well, the House of Representatives passed legislation right after the Ways and Means Committee got the tax returns. Congress ended so that legislation could not be passed by the Senate. That was a good approach. That approach mandated that presidential tax returns be audited as a matter of law.

It was simply a matter of IRS policy, which wasn't being followed earlier. Mandated that presidential tax returns be disclosed, which had been voluntarily done by every candidate for office and every president, and also, you know, mandates just the resources for the IRS to do a decent job of auditing the president. That's been a real problem.

[11:30:00]

When you look at the tax returns and the reports that the committees prepared, the IRS just really didn't have the resources, the expertise, the ability to audit the president effectively or expeditiously, as they claimed.

MATTINGLY: Yes, which was one of the more surprising things, this entire thing. Steve Rosenthal, who has forgotten more about tax policy during this interview than I will ever learn, thanks so much for your time, sir. I appreciate it.

ROSENTHAL: OK, thank you.

MATTINGLY: Barbara Walters, a trailblazer for women and provider of countless major interviews with world leaders, has died at the age of 93. We take a look at her life and legacy, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Today, the world of broadcast journalism is mourning the death of one of its pioneers. Barbara Walters, the legendary news anchor, reporter, and talk show host died at the age of 93. Walters became the first to co-anchor an evening TV newscast at a time when women were rarely if ever seen as serious journalists in the U.S., blazing a decades long trail as a world renowned interviewer of the famous and the powerful who learned to embrace parody along the way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Gilda Radner, did you, with Baba Wawa, you didn't like it at first, right?

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: I didn't at all. I mean, it was when I first left NBC, where I had been very happy and went to ABC to be the first female co-anchor of a network news program and people --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sad days.

WALTERS: -- but I was failing. And she did Baba Wawa. And it really bothered me, being made fun of, until I walked into my little girl's room. She shouldn't have been watching television, but she was. And she said, oh, mommy, she's so cool. And I thought, I've got to learn to laugh at myself.

And after she died, I wrote a letter to her wonderful husband and said how sad I was because she died much too young and I signed it Baba Wawa.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:35:26]

MATTINGLY: In her final years, she was the sharp and witty creator and co-host of the talk show of "The View" before retiring in 2014. Along the way, she inspired generations of young women to pursue journalism. Her fight, her determination helped turn her into a world class journalist and in the process, inspired countless others to be like her.

Joining me now to discuss is Susan Page, she's the Washington Bureau Chief of USA Today and the author of the upcoming biography, "Barbara Walters Life." Susan, I got to say, in the midst of watching YouTube videos of Barbara Walters legendary interviews in which there are about a million, the other thing I was thinking when I heard about this last night was, oh, my goodness, Susan Page is writing this book right now, and I'm thrilled to get a chance to talk to you.

And I think I want to start with the idea of in the broadest of sense, what does this mean for broadcast journalism, for maybe people who aren't in the business, don't understand just how much she meant to people here.

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: Well, you know, Phill, she definitely cut a path no woman had cut before and made it easier for the women who followed her. I ask Brianna Keilar or Dana Bash or Christiane Amanpour what she meant to them in their careers. But more than that, she was a television innovator.

Gender aside, she was someone who saw the potential of merging, of bridging entertainment and news in a way that others had not done before and some didn't exactly welcome. She created "The View" when she was 67 years old and now, a quarter century later, is still going strong.

She really spanned the expanse of television's rise and -- network television's rise and then it's declined, as we've seen all these other ways to communicate. So, she is quite the remarkable figure, not only as a groundbreaker but also as an innovator.

MATTINGLY: All right, so now I'm going to try and get you to spill all the good stuff from the book you've been working on. You've interviewed more than 100 people on her life. Tell us about the impact she's made on the lives of those you've spoken with and what can you share that your publisher won't yell at you for?

PAGE: Well, she, you know, she was a huge competitor and just ask anybody she was competing against Diane Sawyer or Katie Couric. They'll talk about how fierce she could be when they were both going after, when they were all going after the same big interview. But she was also a mentor to a lot of women, she was a mentor to men and women who worked with her as producers and directors and to other women, younger women, who followed behind her.

That was something she embraced, I think, most fully late in life. And now you remember that final scene when she was retiring from "The View," her last episode on "The View" when they had two dozen women from all the networks come out one by one to embrace her and to thank her for the role they had played in their own career. So I think that really meant a lot to her.

MATTINGLY: How will you personally remember her legacy, given the work that you've obviously put into the book itself, but also just more broadly, if you think about her career in journalism, what kind of comes to mind for you? How would you define it?

PAGE: Well, one thing to remember is, even beyond television and even beyond journalism, she was part of a changing American culture when it came to giving opportunities, opening doors for women in all kinds of fields. So while we remember her for her impact on television news, I think she had a broader impact when she got a job at the Today Show in 1964. That was the time when women were not seen in positions where they talked and everybody listened.

And so this -- the most broadly, the women's movement, that has made a difference in my life and the life of so many women in America and around the world. She was on the leading edge of that at a time when it wasn't free. She paid, in some cases, a heavy price in her personal life and with the scars that she gathered in making that -- in breaking that new ground.

MATTINGLY: Yes, a true legend in every way. Susan Page, your books are on my bookshelf. I'm sure this one will be as well. Thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

PAGE: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: TikTok is getting the official boot from Washington. Why the popular social media app is now banned on all government owned devices? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:43:15]

MATTINGLY: TikTok is no longer allowed on federal government devices. Amid concerns that the Chinese owned app is a security risk. President Biden signed legislation on Thursday that was included in the $1.7 trillion spending bill. Now, as Josh Campbell's -- CNN's Josh Campbell reports many states are following suit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Beyond the overnight sensations, and viral four-legged superstars, a potential threat to U.S. national security. This according to a growing number of federal and state officials.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We, the FBI, do have national security concerns about the app.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): The app, the popular global social media giant TikTok, which now boasts more than a billion users.

WRAY: Its parent company is controlled by the Chinese government.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): The director of the FBI spoke at the University of Michigan this month. He says one key threat is the Chinese government's ability to potentially control the platform's algorithm.

WRAY: Which allows them to manipulate content and, if they want to, to use it for influence operations.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): And the potential threat, officials say, also includes data collection and espionage. AVRIL HAINES, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: It's extraordinary the degree to which China, in particular but they're not the only ones, obviously, are, you know, developing just frameworks for collecting foreign data.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): Even in a politically polarized America, the Chinese Communist Party's influence in the digital space has garnered increasingly bipartisan concern.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D), VIRGINIA: TikTok is an enormous threat. They can visualize, even down to your keystrokes.

REP. MIKE GALLAGHER (R), WISCONSIN: The question we have to ask is whether we want to give the CCP, the ability to track our location, track what websites we visit, even when we're not using the TikTok app itself.

[11:45:07]

CAMPBELL (voice-over): TikTok says they have been negotiating with the U.S. government on a potential deal to resolve the national security concerns. That could include, quote, content recommendation and moderation and data security access. Despite those claims, federal legislators have taken action, this week banning the app from devices used by employees of the U.S. House.

Missouri Senator Josh Hawley spearheaded an effort to ban the app from all U.S. government devices. And on Thursday, President Joe Biden signed legislation making the ban law.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: TikTok should not be present on any devices that have -- that are sitting in the hands of the people that we trust to run the government.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): And it's not just Washington. Wednesday, the Governor of Kansas barred TikTok from state owned devices, the latest in a series of state leaders who have vowed to rid their systems of the app.

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: It's off our networks. It's blocked off of our servers. Anybody who uses any of our systems no longer will be able to download or utilize this app because of the national security threat that it is. It will be a criminal offense if they do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks to the people of this state.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): Despite the warnings from the intelligence community, some elected leaders across the country continue to maintain a presence on the social media giant, like California Governor Gavin Newsom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor, top priority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much. Thank you. CAMPBELL (voice-over): His office did not respond to CNN's request for comment. Still the warning from U.S. Intelligence leaders remains stark.

WILLIAM BURNS, CIA DIRECTOR: It's genuinely troubling to see, you know, what the Chinese government could do to manipulate TikTok.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL: Now for those who might be thinking, who cares if a foreign government is spying on me watching dog videos on TikTok, cybersecurity experts say the vulnerabilities go far beyond the app itself and that you should only download apps from companies that you trust, because any software you put on your smartphone could open up that device to tampering.

Josh Campbell, CNN, Los Angeles.

MATTINGLY: Joining us now, former General Counsel for the National Security Agency, Glenn Gerstell. And Glenn, it's been stunning the velocity not of the proposals, but the actual enactment. On the state level, obviously on the federal level as well. These are government based, they're not the entire population to some degree. But who's exactly affected by the bans that we've seen be implemented over the last couple of months?

GLENN GERSTELL, FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY: Thanks. The bans that we've seen implemented over the past few months have been aimed at state government employees initially. This was became a politically popular issue, particularly for Republican governors to voice their concerns over this. But we've now seen Democrat, Democratic governors also adopt bans on state owned telephones and computers.

And then now finally, most recently on the federal government, with President Biden signing some legislation that bans the use of TikTok on any phones or computers or laptops used by federal employees. So this has grown very rapidly. Having said that, this doesn't close the issue because TikTok can still be used on anybody's personal phone. There's no laws against that.

Congress does have pending some legislation that would completely ban it in the United States, as might India has done. But whether that's going to go through or not, is very unclear.

MATTINGLY: You know, what's fascinating, and Josh got at this with the portion of his piece about Gavin Newsom. You know, the White House, from a communications perspective, is very cognizant of the need to get their message out on TikTok. And yet, obviously, White House officials don't use the app themselves on their government phones.

But TikTok is huge. It has a billion users worldwide. One third of Americans use it. Do you think it's feasible to have or to push for an outright ban for all users in the United States? How do you see this kind of playing out? GERSTELL: Probably not. My guess is we probably won't get to that point for two reasons. One, the one you pointed out Phil, which is that it's immensely popular. The fact is, two out of three -- two out of every three American teenagers use it. One out of every three Americans generally use it. So it's immensely popular. It's not intrinsically evil.

There's a lot of fun and useful information on TikTok, and so taking it away would be very difficult for just popularity reasons. Secondly, there's a First Amendment concern. We've taken steps to limit Chinese technology in the United States. We've banned Huawei telephone equipment, for example, for national security reasons, and it's taken some other steps about Chinese surveillance technology in the United States.

But we haven't really taken a position on a communication social media app that way. And it raises some First Amendment questions which we'd have to work through.

MATTINGLY: You know, Josh mentioned the idea of negotiations with the federal government or communications with the U.S. government about limitations that they can put on or access that they could possibly put on to assuage some of the concerns that federal officials have. Do you see an outcome there? Do you see a way to thread that needle for TikTok and its officials?

GERSTELL: My guess is that's probably where we're going to end up. These negotiations have been going on in secret it for many, many months now. But there's a precedent here, which is there's a committee formed under government law that looks at foreign investment in the United States, and for years, we've had a successful track record of putting limits for national security reasons on foreign investment in the United States.

[11:50:17]

And that committee is looking at TikTok now, trying to see whether there's any restrictions that could be imposed on it. For example, making sure that its algorithms are more transparent, having an American board of governors, having some sense that we have some degree of control over how users data won't be shipped back to China and how misinformation or disinformation won't be sent our way by China in a crisis.

So I think it's possible to get there, very complicated and tricky negotiations.

MATTINGLY: So as a dad of four kids who luckily are too young to have phones right now, and I hope they never have them, the question I always have in these moments, you know, how do you feel about this personally? Would you have TikTok on your phone? Would you let your kids use TikTok?

GERSTELL: So we'll take me first. I don't use TikTok. I recognize the value, but like many others in the national security arena, I'm concerned about the risks, and I just simply don't use it at all. As for my kids, well, first of all, we have to make the assumption that they'll listen to Dad's recommendations, which is not at all clear in terms of social media, but let's assume they did.

And I would tell them really three things. I would say, number one, think carefully about whether you really need this app and what devices you're going to use it on. If you use it on a phone that already has your Social Security information, your financial information, credit cards, et cetera, you're probably taking a big risk.

If you could limit your use to some other device, a laptop that doesn't have all that, you're taking a step in the direction of a little more safety. Not totally, but it's a factor. Secondly, I would say don't share contacts, your Facebook contacts, your Google contacts, your phone's contacts with the app. The app just automatically does that. It vacuums up your other contacts, and you're just asking for trouble in that regard.

And you can, using TikTok settings, negate that possibility, turn off that sharing feature. And then finally, don't log into -- I would tell my kids, don't log into TikTok through another social media app. You can log into it directly. If you log in through Facebook or Snapchat or Google or Instagram or whatever, yes, it's true, you don't have to remember another password, but, wow, you are just connecting two vacuum cleaners together. And that, to me, from a data security point of view, doesn't make any sense.

MATTINGLY: Yes, you haven't seen it, but I've been writing all this down to tape it to my fridge. Glenn Gerstell --

GERSTELL: OK.

MATTINGLY: -- thanks so much, my friend. I really appreciate it.

GERSTELL: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:56:14]

MATTINGLY: This New Year's Day, a new CNN film tells the story of legendary singer Dionne Warwick. She's brought us countless hits over the decades, but "Don't Make Me Over" tells the intimate stories behind her rise to global superstardom. Our Victor Blackwell has a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Dionne Warwick is a global music superstar.

(MUSIC) BLACKWELL (voice-over): But her impact extends far beyond music. Warwick's singing career started at her grandfather's church in New Jersey. Her talent and drive propelled her from the church choir to the most famous stages around the world.

(MUSIC)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): But when she started touring in the south, Warwick encountered a level of bigotry that she had not seen growing up in the north. Her response was clear.

DIONNE WARWICK, AMERICAN SINGER: Blacks were on this side, whites were on this side. The stage was straight ahead. And I remember saying, I'm saying, Dionne, do not turn your back on the white folk. First thing I did when I went out there, I walked straight to the band and turned my back and played the ones that looked like me.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER (in unison): It's a state of emergency.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): When the HIV AIDS crisis struck in the 80s, Warwick was quick to act.

(MUSIC)

WARWICK: I became very vocal and very public with the AIDS issue based on the fact that we're losing so many. Something had to be done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dionne was definitely a hero of mine and a hero to a lot of people. She was really the first person in the music business to actually speak up about it.

WARWICK: My role as Ambassador Of Health --

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Her efforts prompted then President Ronald Reagan to name her his US. Ambassador of Health to advocate for AIDS awareness and research around the world. Today, Warwick continues to make an impact through her colorful Twitter commentary.

Collaborations with young artists.

(MUSIC)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Pop culture presence. Dionne, why are you perfect?

WARWICK: Darling, I'm not perfect. I'm just very, very good.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): And ongoing charity work. And at 82, she continues to share her legendary music with audiences around the world.

(MUSIC)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Victor Blackwell, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MATTINGLY: The CNN film, "Don't Make Me Over" premieres tomorrow night, New Year's Day at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

And we have much more just ahead in the Newsroom. Good news, it all starts right now.

Hello and thanks for joining me. It is the last day of 2022. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Fredricka Whitfield. And we begin this hour watching several major stories unfolding. Catholics all around the world mourning the death of the Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, the former pontiff passing away today at the age of 95.

He was the first Pope to resign his post to nearly 600 years. Stunning, the Catholic faithful and he stepped down in 2013. His death coming just days after the Vatican announced his health had been deteriorating. Much more on that in a moment.

[12:00:00]