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Parents Of Murder Suspect Speak Out For The First Time; Three NYPD Officers Injured In Machete Attack Near Times Square; One Dead, Nine Injured In Alabama New Year's Eve Shooting; Biden Returns From Vacation To GOP Taking Control Of House; Putin Uses New Year's Address For Wartime Rallying Cry; Kinzinger: Fears For The Future Of U.S. If Trump Not Charged; Chief Justice Roberts Highlights Judicial Security In Annual Report; Georgia, TCU Pull Off Epic Wins To Set Up National Championship Clash; Anita Pointer Of The Pointer Sisters Dies At Age 74. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 01, 2023 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEECHANT SEWELL, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: An officer and attempted to strike him. The male then struck two additional officers in the head with the machete. This is another reminder of what our officers face.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bryan Kohberger remains right here at the Monroe County Correctional Facility.
CHIEF JAMES FRY, MOSCOW POLICE: These murders have shaken our community.
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): If he is not guilty of a crime, then, I frankly fear for the future of this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the end zone, touchdown.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: This was the best semifinal day we've ever seen in the college football playoff era. Georgia Bulldogs edging out Ohio State here in Atlanta.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this holiday.
Happy New Year, everyone. We begin tonight with a major development in the Idaho murder investigation. For the first time we are hearing from the parents of the suspect in the case, 28-year-old Bryan Kohberger. He is facing four counts of first-degree murder.
CNN's Jean Casarez is in Pennsylvania where Kohberger remains in isolation at the Monroe County Correctional Facility.
So, Jean, what are the parents saying? CASAREZ: Well, Pamela, they have released a statement and I want to
read this to you. But first, you know, the attorney for Bryan Kohberger, Jason LaBar, tells me that when he was arrested Friday morning and the family is telling him about 3:00 in the morning, but Bryan LaBar tells me that what happened was that they went to the front door and that Bryan's father actually answered the door.
It was law enforcement. We know it was the FBI. We know it was Pennsylvania State Police. It was in the middle of the night. We also are told that he was very cooperative. He brought his son Bryan to the front door. Bryan was cooperative and that is when they took him into custody. And I want to read you now the statement that is from the family. They say, "First and foremost, we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel and we pray each day for them.
"We will continue to let the legal process unfold, and as a family, we will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence, rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions. We respect privacy in this matter, as our family and the families suffering loss can move forward through the legal process."
And I also understand that Bryan Kohberger, who is in protective custody inside the detention facility right behind me, is not allowed to have his parents come and visit him, and that comes from his attorney Jason LaBar. He tells me that he is not allowed that, only his attorney -- Pamela.
BROWN: So you've been speaking with the attorney. What else is the attorney saying now about the charges against Kohberger?
CASAREZ: Well, he obviously sees the publicity nationwide. He sees that this 28-year-old man was arrested. The charges are so extremely serious and that the country has been focused on this case for the last seven weeks, and so what he wants people to know is, there is that innocent until proven guilty because there's a potential jury pool that is watching all of this, too. Watch what he said to me on that presumption of innocence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON LABAR, BRYAN KOHBERGER'S ATTORNEY: He's doing OK. He's shocked a little bit. Obviously, he's calm right now. You know, we don't really know much about the case. I don't have any affidavit of probable cause.
He is entitled to a fair and impartial jury of his peers. He's presumed innocent. He's cloaked in that innocence. And really, I don't want anyone to jump to conclusions as far as facts and evidence. Right now everybody is making presumptions and assumptions. But really, he has that presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CASAREZ: And it is true, to remember, for any defendant, obviously, it's constitutionally based, but the next hearing will be that extradition hearing. It is on Tuesday. And once he gets back to Idaho and has his initial appearance, authorities there have said the probable cause affidavit, which will have specific facts in it, will be publicly released -- Pamela.
BROWN: Jean Casarez, thank you.
Turning to New York City now, in a bizarre attack that unfolded near last night's Times Square festivities. Three New York City police officers are recovering after an unprovoked attack by a man wielding a machete. It was just outside the Times Square security screening zone.
CNN's Gloria Pazmino joins us now.
[16:05:02]
What more have you learned, Gloria, about the attack and the suspect?
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, you can see just how crowded the area here behind me in Times Square is. This is an area that is usually crowded, but around this time of the holidays and right before New Year's Eve, this area is packed.
Now there is a big difference between the crowd you're seeing now and the crowd we had here last night. And that's that every single person that got into this area here yesterday to watch the ball drop was screened for security purposes. It was at one of those security checkpoints that police tell us this 19-year-old male approached an officer and attacked him, striking him above the head with a machete.
He then tried to strike another officer, and it was at that point that a third police officer that was on the scene discharged his service weapon, injuring the suspect in his shoulder. Now, this event happened last night shortly after 10:00 in the evening, and it did not affect any of the Times Square festivities, but, of course, it caused a major security headache around that time.
Now, those three officers are in stable condition and recovering at the hospital. One of them is a rookie police officer on the NYPD. He graduated from the police academy just less than a week ago. Mayor Eric Adams held an early morning press briefing after visiting with those officers, and he commended the way that they responded to this incident. He hailed them for their actions and talked about the fact that not only that they respond, but made sure that the scene was secure and that people who were trying to get into the area here last night could still do so safely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: They maintained the scene. They got the scene immediately under control. Those responding officers then, after securing the assistance for their fellow officer and subduing the person involved, the officers responded back to the location because we still had a city we had to protect. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PAZMINO: So a frightening scene for those three officers, including that rookie, just a few days on the job, but Pam, this incident is being investigated both by the NYPD and the FBI. We are awaiting to learn more about this 19-year-old suspect. As of right now, we should stress both the mayor and the police commissioner have told us there is currently no active or believed threat to the area of Times Square here, and everything last night, all of the New Year's Eve festivities went off very safely -- Pam.
BROWN: That is good news. Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much.
Meantime in Mobile, Alabama, the year closed out with perhaps the last mass shooting of 2022. What was already a horrific year for gun violence ends with yet another shooting when a 24-year-old man was killed and nine people were injured just before midnight.
CNN's Nadia Romero joins us now.
So, Nadia, have police made any arrests?
NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No arrests yet, Pamela, but as you mentioned this has a lot of people on high alert because you think of a new year, new you, new beginnings but it's the same old gun violence that we're talking about. Unfortunately this time in Mobile, Alabama.
So let's break down what we know. We know that at least one person is dead, a 24-year-old man. Nine others injured. And they range in ages from 17 to 57 years old.
And you're looking at the video of what happened when people heard those gunshots. You see people running, scattering away from the scene. This was nearby the major New Year's Eve celebration in Mobile, about 45 minutes before they were supposed to ring in the new year. So you think of this area being packed with families and people going out to celebrate the holiday. Unfortunately, now this area is a crime scene.
I want you to hear from the police chief as he explains why he believes this was not a random act of violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF PAUL PRINE, MOBILE POLICE DEPARTMENT: I think it's safe to say, though, at this stage that the perpetrators and the -- at least the deceased, may have been known to one another, and so I think that would give some comfort to all of us downtown that this was not just a random shooting where a person lost their life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMERO: And we just checked in with Mobile Police Department. No more updates at this hour, Pamela. They're telling us that they have made no arrests, but they have detained several people. They're only calling them witnesses right now, not persons of interest, but they say that they're gathering information as this investigation continues -- Pamela.
BROWN: Nadia Romero, thank you.
Coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM, on this first day of 2023, Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell don't see eye to eye on much, so why is the president taking the stage this week with his Republican adversary?
[16:10:03]
An outgoing Republican in Congress says not only should former President Trump be charged with crimes but if prosecutors do nothing, he fears for the future of the nation.
And two college football games for the ages. Did you watch these games? Wow. Fans could not have asked for more than what they got with the semifinals here, setting up a title match that no one saw coming.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: With time running out, House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy is scrambling today to lock down enough support to become speaker on Tuesday. The House Republican Caucus is meeting today to discuss just that.
Regardless of who wins the speaker's gavel President Biden will return from vacation tomorrow to a new reality in Washington.
CNN's Arlette Saenz is traveling with President Biden in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
So, Arlette, with Republicans taking control of the House this week, will President Biden seek more bipartisanship?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, in President Biden's ideal world he would be able to find ways to work in a bipartisan fashion with members of Congress, specifically Republicans, but the president also is fully cognizant of the resistance that may be coming, especially when it comes to his legislative agenda and those Republican investigations that have been promised over in the House.
But as far as bipartisanship goes, the president is going to try to showcase his willingness to work with Republicans when he travels to Kentucky on Wednesday. He will be there accompanied by Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, a Republican, and also the Republican governor of the state of Ohio, Mike DeWine. They will be there to promote the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and how funding from that law is being applied to a bridge that connects Ohio and Kentucky.
That Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was one of the initiatives where the White House was successfully able to work with Republicans in Congress. They also were able to get more funding passed relating to Ukraine, as well as get those investments for the microchip industry in the United States also passed with Republicans. And the White House has also started to identify some areas and groups
in the House and Senate where they think that they could get some bipartisan cooperation, focusing on moderate Republicans and also incoming freshmen who are representing in flipped districts that Biden had won back in 2020.
[16:15:10]
But the president is also keenly aware of the political reality that awaits him when he returns to Washington, especially as Republicans are preparing to take control of the House and there will be an era of divided government for the first time in Biden's presidency. One thing that White House is watching very closely this coming week is that race for House speaker and whether Kevin McCarthy will be the leader of Republicans in the House.
And then also for months now, the White House has been preparing for an onslaught of Republican investigations, as they have been promising, to launch investigations into a number of issues in the Biden administration from the withdrawal to Afghanistan to their handling of the southern border, and also that probe into Hunter Biden, the president's son's business dealings which the White House has said that they view as a politically motivated investigation.
But heading back to Washington, of course, Biden has had decades of experience on the Hill. He knows what divided government is like, but now it will be the first time that he as president is going to have to balance these Republicans who are ready to stymie large parts of his agenda.
BROWN: All right. Arlette Saenz, live for us there from the Virgin Islands, thank you so much.
Let's continue this conversation. Joining us now is CNN political analyst Margaret Talev. So she's also the director of Syracuse University's Democracy Journalism and Citizenship Institute, and senior contributor with Axios.
So, Margaret, we just heard Arlette's report there. This week, President Biden will appear alongside Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell and Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine. Is this more significant than just, you know, a photo-op to tout a massive public works package?
MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Pamela, Happy New Year, and yes, I think it is because you asked what can President Biden do to accomplish much this year and there's really two things that are working in his favor. One are either bipartisan or the Democratic initiatives that he was able to get through last year when Democrats were still in charge of the House and that infrastructure deal is one of them. It's really politically popular across partisan lines.
And the other thing that President Biden can lean into is, I think, for better or for worse, is GOP overreach. When there are examples of bipartisanship that he can lean into, that is a real strength for him because it's a big part of what he ran on. He's not going to have many of those opportunities. He has a lot of challenges stacking up even before the new Congress is sworn in.
BROWN: Yes. So what are the political realties Biden will face in 2023 and could any of them actually work to his advantage?
TALEV: Look, I think the biggest challenges for him are going to be the House takeover by Republicans because, number one, it's going to stop his legislative agenda, and number two, it's going to just turn on the spigot of investigations against everyone in his Cabinet, against everyone in his family.
I think on an emotional level, although he has been bracing for the investigations against his son, Hunter, since he took office essentially, I just think this is actually going to be very impactful for the president. It will be a very painful period of weeks or months for him to endure. It really could occupy most of the next two years.
Some of the other problems, challenges that he faces, is the economy. It's doing better than it could be. It's doing better than it was. But the risk of gas prices, inflation, stock market, and economic slowdown, these are all real risks that he doesn't have much control over that could hurt him politically.
Russian aggression in Ukraine, the Biden administration is expecting a brutal winter ahead. And all those other foreign policy challenges. And then we haven't mentioned 2024 yet, but we are expecting an announcement by President Biden in some number of weeks or months about his plans and that will all factor in his calculus.
I do think his biggest strengths are going to be the accomplishments already behind him that he can look to bear some fruit in the coming year, and he can hope that the infighting among Kevin McCarthy and the right flank of his caucus, the missteps by Donald Trump, help him to make the case that continue Democratic leadership is, you know, a more sane choice, that will be what he will try to argue.
Again, it's sort of an Achilles heel. I think the Republicans are going to give him the most heartburn, but they also may be Biden's salvation if they overplay their hand.
BROWN: Yes. And let's talk more about House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy because he still has not secured the votes he needs to be the next House speaker, as far as we know. House Republicans, they are on a conference call now. How do you see this playing out?
TALEV: This is an extraordinary situation. I still believe that Kevin McCarthy is going to assume the speakership.
[16:20:04]
I think all signs are pointing in that direction, but you can understand the math which makes it very, very difficult. It has been a century since it happened that a speaker who ascends needs more than one vote to nail that down. I don't know how many of our viewers are familiar with the name Frederick Gillette, probably not very many, but that is the last time this happened. A Republican congressman from Massachusetts took him nine tries -- this is back in 1923. And I'll tell you, it's really interesting some of the big issues of
the time around 1923, women's rights, with women's right to vote having recently passed, and fights over the rights of immigrants. So it is a little bit of deja vu all over again. If you had to go back to the Civil War era to see how this really could play out, in the mid- 1800s it took two months for the speaker to ascend --
BROWN: 1855, right?
TALEV: That's correct. 1855. And nothing can get done in Congress until there is a speaker. So for all those reasons, I think, you know, Republicans have a lot on their agenda starting with the investigations that they want to get started on. They can't do that until they have a speaker. So there are a million reasons not to prolong this fight.
McCarthy is starting to suggest he's willing to make some concessions, too. Ironically the concession that most of his detractors want is a concession that would make it easier to topple him if he becomes the speaker. So my guess is that's where this is heading. It's possible it will take more than one vote. And if it does, it will really be chaotic because there are a lot of old people in Congress, but no one has been there for 100 years.
So we will be relying on the history books and parliamentarians if it gets to that. I'm not sure it will, but the jockeying in these final hours is something to behold.
BROWN: It's notable. And we're going to actually be speaking to a Republican on the House side later on in this show about that and about this conference call that happened today, as McCarthy tries to get the votes to become speaker.
Margaret Talev, thank you so much. Happy New Year to you.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday. 2022 ended with a barrage of rockets in Ukraine. What will 2023 have in store for this relentless war? I'll speak to a general about what Vladimir Putin could be planning, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:25:49]
BROWN: Welcome back, everyone. Taking a live look here at the White House. 4:25 p.m. here in Washington, D.C., on what is a really beautiful day, this first day of 2023.
Well, we are seeing no pause in the fighting as the new year begins in Ukraine. At least one person was killed today in a Russian attack on the Zaporizhzhia region. And this follows a barrage of Russian missile strikes across Ukraine on New Year's Eve.
That was one of several attacks in Kyiv Saturday. In a speech to the country last night, Ukraine's president accused Russia of, quote, "following the devil and waging war to ensure Putin remains in power for life." Putin himself showed no signs of backing down during his New Year's address to the country.
CNN's Clare Sebastian has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This was President Putin's longest ever New Year's address and made it clear his focus is to keep this war going, whatever the cost to his country. The optics are significant. This year he delivered the address standing in front of what appeared to be soldiers in uniform on a visit to a military headquarters not far from the Ukrainian border. That was a stark contrast to previous years in front of Moscow's Kremlin.
Putin said Russia is protecting its people and its own historical territory, a reference to the regions Russia has illegally annexed in Ukraine. And he accused the West of stirring up the conflict for its own gain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The West lied about peace but was preparing for aggression. And today they openly admit it without shame, and they cynically use Ukraine and its people to weaken and split Russia. We have never allowed and never will allow anyone to do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: The New Year holiday, the most important of the season in much of the Russian-speaking world, brought no letup in Russia's attempts to weaken and split Ukraine.
This is an image put out by the Kyiv Region Police Department showing what it says is a fragment of a Russian drone with the words "Happy New Year" in Russian. Ukraine's Air Force said it repelled 45 Iranian made drones overnight around the turn of the new year. Authorities in the Kyiv region reported damage to infrastructure.
Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Colonel Cedric Leighton joins us now.
Colonel, Happy New Year to you. I want to get your reaction to Putin's New Year's address. If you read between the lines, what is he saying?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: So Happy New Year, Pam. He's really looking at a false narrative, but he's trying to convince the Russian people and, really, the rest of the world, that the Russian cause is the one that is the defensive cause. In other words, he's doing all of this because he believes Russia has been wronged. He believes that Russia needs to move forward and protect its borders and one way to protect those borders is to prevent the pernicious influence from the West from getting to Russia through countries like Ukraine. So there's no better way to protect Russia, in his logic, than to go
after Ukraine and eliminate that as a threat for Russia. And that's what he's trying to do. He's really kind of doing an Alice through the looking glass type situation here, and it's really telling how different his world view is compared to that of, say, President Zelenskyy or our own world view.
BROWN: So then, on that note, what should the West expect to see Putin do next?
LEIGHTON: So I think what he's going to do is he's going to double down quite a bit on the kinds of things that he's doing right now. You will see more attacks on the civilian infrastructure, unfortunately. You will also see attempts perhaps to move Russian forces a bit forward into areas of the Donbas in the eastern part of the country that the Russians have either lost control of or have not gained complete control of up until this point.
However, the Ukrainians have a lot of momentum on their side. They also have the ability to use their logistical supply chain much better than the Russians do. So the Russians are going to have some considerable difficulties trying to reach their war aims. But Putin is going to try to --
[16:30:04]
So the Russians are going to have some considerable difficulties trying to reach their war aims, but Putin is going to try to leverage as many different things that he can in order to, at the very least, reach a stalemate in this war. Hopefully, he won't be able to do that, but that is his definite goal.
BROWN: Could this be the year that the offensive fails and Russia walks away? I mean, can Putin sustain this?
LEIGHTON: Over the long term, I don't think he can, Pamela. I think what, you know, we're seeing is some severe shortages in his supply chain. We're seeing some real difficulties getting his Russian forces ready. The fact that he had to conscript 300,000 new people, basically, into the Russian military on an emergency basis shows that there is a great deal of weakness in the existing Russian military.
Those weaknesses will continue, and they'll be made worse by the kinds of things that he's doing right now. So what Putin is trying to do is put a really good look at everything, but his ability to conduct offensive operations is going to be severely tested, and I think it's going to fail.
BROWN: Well, it is a new year, as we said, and Republicans take over the House this week, meaning President Biden will not have as much control over funding the war effort as he did last year. How big of a worry should this be for President Zelenskyy?
LEIGHTON: It should certainly be of some concern, because you're looking at, you know, something that will require sustained commitment by the west. The good news for President Zelenskyy on the Ukrainian side is that the Defense Authorization Act and the funding bill that was just signed by President Biden really commit the U.S. for the next fiscal year to support the Ukrainian war effort.
So the quicker the Ukrainians can move forward with offensive actions and with their capacity to regain territory that they've lost, the better off they're going to be. So it is of some concern, and the longer it takes for the Ukrainians to achieve their goals, the more difficult things could potentially become with the Republican controlled Congress. But certainly, the Ukrainians are in a pretty good place right now, especially with NATO's support and the continued support of the U.S. military and the U.S. infrastructure to support them.
BROWN: Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much.
Well, it's up to the Justice Department now whether or not to criminally charge former President Trump. The January 6 Committee referred four counts against Trump to the DOJ. So will it happen? Here what one Republican member of that committee told CNN coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:35:47]
BROWN: While the work of the January 6 Committee is done, an outgoing Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger says he fears for the future of the country if former President Donald Trump isn't charged with crimes related to the Capitol attack. Kinzinger believes the Justice Department will do just that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: As we've gotten into this, I look and I'm like, yes, if this is not a crime, I don't know what is. If a president can incite an insurrection and not be held accountable, then really there's no limit to what a president can do or can't do. And so, yes, I do think, ultimately, when we get to where we're going to go, I think the Justice Department will do the right thing. I think he will be charged, and I frankly think he should be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Joining us now with more is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. So, Elie, what do you think of Kinzinger making this kind of prediction?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Pam, I agree with Adam Kinzinger that there is a strong foundation of evidence in the public realm on which prosecutors are going to make this decision. Much of that evidence comes from Representative Kinzinger and the January 6 Committee itself.
But I also think we need to be very careful when we're getting into the guessing or predicting whether DOJ will or will not indict Donald Trump, because the fact is, prosecutors always know more than we do. Yes, there are indicators. Yes, we can draw reasonable judgments from them, but these are grand jury proceedings.
There could be witnesses prosecutors have that we don't know of. There could be documents prosecutors have that we don't know of. There could be complexities and inconsistencies that prosecutors are trying to deal with that we don't know of. So prosecutors are the ones with all the information, and ultimately the impetus is going to be on them to decide.
BROWN: Yes. And they, you know, frankly, it's not about what they think happened or the moral thing to do. They have to have all the evidence to back up. They have a higher bar, right, when they bring a charge, especially against a former president. Both the Justice Department and Fulton County, Georgia, are investigating what happened around the 2020 election. What are we seeing in terms of pace and focus in these probes?
HONIG: So there's been a notable shift in the pace and focus I think both at the state and federal levels. For the first year, two year and a half, we really saw very little action focused at the real power sources. And Pam, I think it's worth reflecting, we are just about at the two-year anniversary of the January 6 attack.
BROWN: Yes.
HONIG: Not a single person in a position of power or in meaningful proximity to a position of power has been charged with anything at all. However, there has been a notable shift in the last four to six months or so on both sides where we're seeing subpoenas going out at a faster rate to more and more insider, connected, powerful people. So I think there's been a real acceleration both state and federally.
BROWN: Yes, I mean, as we know, several of the riders have been charged, but like you say, nothing -- no one in the position of power, right? How will the ultimate decision-making process work? Who makes the call on whether to issue charges?
HONIG: So if we're looking at the Fulton County D.A. down in Atlanta, that will be her decision. The District Attorney, Fani Willis. She doesn't have to go through any bureaucracy or approvals. She has the ultimate say. She's in the process of putting her case in front of what we call a special grand jury, which will make a recommendation, and then the D.A. will decide whether to seek an indictment with a regular grand jury.
Now, on the federal side, we have special counsel now, Jack Smith. He will run the day to day of the investigation. He will make the first recommendation as to whether to indict or not indict. But either way, that decision goes to Merrick Garland. Now, he has to give great weight to what the special counsel wants to do. But ultimately, Pam, on the federal side, it will be the Attorney General's decision.
BROWN: So what kind of cooperation, if any, exists between the special counsel and the Georgia grand jury and who gets to go first and announcing any results?
HONIG: It's a fascinating question. I was both on the federal side and the state side during my career, so I can tell you that whoever gets to go first will be whoever goes first. There's no way that either side can prevent or slow down the other one from charging first.
Now, sometimes in this situation, you see the party's coordinate. They talk to each other. What do you have? What do we have? Are we both going to charge or one or the other going to charge? What's your timeline? But other times, truthfully egos get in the way and desire for attention and credit gets in the way. And so this may become something of a race to see who can get there first.
[16:40:01]
BROWN: And why would would that matter? Who announces it first?
HONIG: Well, it would matter ultimately because once you announce a case, once you indict, then you have to start turning over discovery. You have to start turning over the evidence to Donald Trump or anyone who gets indicted. And that will give that person an inside glimpse of the case. So you want to be first, you don't want to be second, while the other side is starting its case sort of beyond your control.
BROWN: Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Trump is charged, what obstacles or complications could prosecutors face in securing an ultimate conviction? And what role does the fact that he was a former president play in all of it?
HONIG: Yes. So that's such an important point to keep in mind. If it happens that Donald Trump is indicted, it may well happen. We just don't know. People need to remember an indictment is the start of a case. It is not the end point. And we're going to see some real obstacles here at the state level.
If Fulton County charges, there's a real legal and constitutional question about whether a local elected, partisan district attorney at a county level can indict somebody for conduct touching on the presidency. There will be a debate about whether this conduct actually touches on the presidency. But watch, that will be a legal argument.
And either way, Pam, as you know, you have to get a jury if you're a prosecutor to convict 12 to zero. That's going to be difficult in any case. It's going to be particularly difficult against the former president. It's going to be particularly difficult against somebody who is a current candidate for 2024.
So an indictment, it will be momentous if it happens, but I think we need to understand that there are miles and miles between an indictment and a conviction, especially in this case. That's an important point. Elie Honig, great analysis, as always. Happy New Year to you.
HONIG: Thanks, Pam. Great to see you. Happy New Year.
BROWN: You're in the CNN Newsroom. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts uses his end of year report, but not to talk about the leak that rocked the nation's highest court. So, what did he write about? That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:19]
BROWN: In his annual end of year report, Chief Justice John Roberts focused on judicial security measures after a string of threats against the Supreme Court. As a reminder, these are abortion rights protesters that gathered right outside his home back in May.
CNN Supreme Court Reporter Ariane de Vogue joins us now. So Ariane, just as important as what's in this report is what's not. Can you give us an overview of what Robert said and didn't?
ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Right. You're absolutely right. This report, he stressed judicial security, the safety of judges, and he spoke very generally, or he wrote very generally, and he really placed it back into the context of history. He said, you know, back in the civil right there, there were judges who at times wrote unpopular opinions and they came under attack.
And Roberts wrote in this report, he basically said, a judicial system cannot and should not live in fear. So that was the main theme here of this report. But Pam, what was really interesting is the fact that he doesn't refer at all to the tumultuous year that just happened at the Supreme Court. And it was a big year, right?
He doesn't explain why the focus on judges' safety is necessary. And in many ways, this term was so big because, as you remember, back in May, there was the leak of that draft opinion on Roe v. Wade that prompted these protests in front of justice's homes across the country. And there was even a man who was picked up in Justice Brett Kavanaugh's neighborhood and later charged with attempted murder.
Chief Justice John Roberts in this didn't mention that at all. And he also didn't update the country on where we are in the investigation that he launched looking into that leak, right? It's been some eight months. A lot of people said, well, maybe he's going to use this report just to sort of say where we are. He didn't.
And one more thing, Pam, that's important is the area of ethics, right? Because public opinion of the Supreme Court is at an all-time low. And a lot of people look at the fact that you and I have discussed this for years. At the Supreme Court, there really isn't a code of conduct that is targeting the justices themselves.
Basically, these justices get to decide when they want to recuse from particular cases. And that brings up questions for a lot of people. They thought maybe in this new report he unveils something new ethics guidelines, and he didn't.
BROWN: Yes, I mean, that was a big question with Justice Thomas, right, whether he should recuse himself in certain cases involving January 6, given what we have learned about his wife, Ginni Thomas. She came under fire, of course, for her efforts to help Trump overturn the results of the 2020 election. Despite calls for Justice Thomas to recuse himself from a case involving Trump, he didn't. Did Roberts address --
DE VOGUE: Yes.
BROWN: -- that narrow aspect at all?
DE VOGUE: Kind of a good question, right, because that was a big deal when you're writing a year-end report. And in fact, as you said, the January 6 Committee, they came upon these texts between Ginni Thomas. And it's fair to say, as you know, that she's this longtime conservative activist, but she wrote these texts to the White House expressing concerns about the election.
The January 6 Committee, they interviewed her and they did not actually mention her in their year-end report. But even if it wasn't a big deal for the committee and her lawyer said, look, her role was minimal, she doesn't talk to Justice Clarence Thomas, her husband, about the law, still that raised these concerns like, should Justice Clarence Thomas have recused himself from at least one case that had to do with that committee.
So all these questions are burgling and we get this report where, in fact, Chief Justice John Roberts isn't talking about things that are happening right now. He's sort of making references to judicial safety, you know, pinning it back in history. But I think a lot of people thought that this year, this report might have had a little bit more meat.
BROWN: Yes, he certainly didn't address all the elephants in the room. Ariane de Vogue --
DE VOGUE: Yes.
BROWN: -- thank you very much.
Well, from the adventures of an animated Plumber to the return of Indiana Jones, 2023 could be a big year at the movies. And we have a preview for you. Also, football does not get much better than what happened yesterday. We're going to look at how two thrillers in the college football playoffs have set up an epic title game.
Dionne Warwick is a music icon with 56 worldwide hits, six Grammy Awards, and one extraordinary legacy. She brings her exclusive story to CNN in the new film, "Don't Make Me Over," premiering tonight at 9:00. And here's a preview.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dionne Warwick, one of the great female singers of all time.
[16:50:02]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dionne was the first African American woman to win a Grammy in the pop category.
DIONNE WARWICK, SINGER: The music I was singing was nothing like anything that any of them were singing.
The legacy of my family music, pure and simple music.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Dionne Warwick: Don't Make Me Over" premieres tonight at 9:00 on CNN.
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BROWN: It's official. The reigning college football champions will get a chance to defend their title against a team on no one's radar when the season started. It will be Georgia against TCU after a pair of nail-biting semifinal games. CNN's Coy Wire has more.
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: This was the best semifinal day we've ever seen in the college football playoff era. Unless you're an Ohio State or Michigan fan, of course, then perhaps it's heartbreaking. But let's start with those defending champion Georgia Bulldogs edging out Ohio State here in Atlanta.
Dogs trailing by eleven early in the fourth, Buckeyes fake a punt and run for a first down. It could have been the difference in the game, but Dogs coach Kirby Smart had called a time out just in the nick of time, and that seemed to spark a Georgia rally. Their 25-year-old former walk on turned Heisman finalist Stetson Bennett, slinging it to Arian Smith, who sauntered 76 yards for the touchdown.
Dogs cut the lead to three. A Buckeye's field goal would put them up six again, but Bennett was in it to win it, finding Adonai Mitchell injured most of the season, but making the biggest catch of the season. Georgia up one. Ohio State's Heisman finalist quarterback C.J. Stroud, though, marching his team to field goal range.
[16:55:01]
One last chance, but the 50 yarder that was struck at the stroke of midnight is wide left. Georgia finding a way, winning at 42-41. They will face TCU, who upset a Michigan team that was off their game. Uncharacteristic penalties, two interceptions returned for touchdowns. Dee Winters put TCU up by 18 with that one there in the third.
But Michigan never quit. They can be proud. Quarterback J.J. McCarthy scrambling to his right and finding Roman Wilson in the end zone. That was Roman's second touchdown of the fourth quarter. Michigan cuts the lead to six, and they had a chance to tie it in the final minute. But it's a bad quarterback center exchange, the balls bouncing everywhere.
Offensive lineman trying to run with it. It was Michigan's season slipping away. TCU wins 51-45, the most points ever scored in a Fiesta Bowl. Both teams playing their hearts out. Michigan losing a second straight year in the semis. TCU, though, going from unranked to the title game. Nobody saw them coming.
Facing Georgia, who are looking to become the first school to ever win back-to-back titles in the playoff era. That's next Monday night in L.A. Bulldogs big favorites right now, but it's been proven time and time again that you can thrug at all about what Oz makers say when it comes to those TCU Horned Frogs.
BROWN: Yes, when it comes to those underdogs. All right, thank you so much, Coy Wire.
It is a new year and a new slate of movies headed our way as studios hope for a big year at the box office. Spoiler alert for you, though, with some notable exceptions. In 2023, Hollywood is laser focused on younger audiences. CNN's Chloe Melas with a preview of what to watch for in the New Year.
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CHLOE MELAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nintendo fans are gearing up for "The Super Mario Brothers Movie" set to release in April. Actor Chris Pratt is the voice of Mario in the new animated film based on the iconic video game. The famous plumber and his brother Luigi travel through the mushroom kingdom in a quest to save a captured princess.
Other big names lending their voices to the film include Anya Taylor- Joy, Jack Black and Seth Rogen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. We come in peace.
MELAS (voice-over): Pratt also stars in the latest from Marvel Studios, "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3" with writer Director James Gunn bringing "The Space Trilogy" to a close. Star-Lord Peter Quill leads the ragtag guardians on another dangerous mission to defend the universe. The film is set to release in May.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is this man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm her godfather.
MELAS (voice-over): Harrison Ford returns in June as the legendary archaeologist in Indiana Jones in "The Dial of Destiny." It's been 15 years since we've seen Indie on the big screen, and Ford says this is the fifth and final installment of the film franchise. In his newest adventure, Indie takes on former Nazis in an effort to help the U.S. government beat Russia in the space race.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
MELAS (voice-over): "Oppenheimer" explodes onto screens in July. Peaky Blinders actor Cillian Murphy stars as physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer. Christopher Nolan directs this drama about the father of the atomic bomb. The star-studded cast includes Emily Blunt, Robert Downey Jr., Rami Malek and Matt Damon.
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MELAS (voice-over): And for much younger moviegoers, a much- anticipated live action version of The Little Mermaid makes a splash in theaters in May. Up and coming star Halle Bailey plays the adventurous Ariel, who falls for a dashing young prince while visiting the surface world. But a deal with the evil sea, which Ursula puts her life in jeopardy.
Chloe Melas, CNN.
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BROWN: Well, musicians are mourning two of their own this weekend. Just days after publicly disclosing his cancer diagnosis, Jeremiah Green has died. The drummer for the Indie rock band Modest Mouse was just 45 years old.
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BROWN: Love that song. Modest Mouse first got together in the Pacific northwest 1992. Their first mainstream hit, "Float On," came out in 2004 while the band was still recording and touring. But last week it announced that Green had pulled out of the current tour because he was undergoing chemotherapy for an undisclosed type of cancer.
On Facebook, Green's mother posted that a celebration of life will be held in the coming months.
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