Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Sources: Suspect In NYC Machete Attack Was On Terror Watch List; Lawyer: Suspect To Waive Extradition At Hearing Tomorrow; CNN: Genetic Genealogy Helped Identify Unknown DNA At Stabbing Scene; Tennis Legend Navratilova Diagnosed With Throat, Breast Cancers; Meadows Gave Jan. 6 Cmte 6,600 Pages Of Emails And 2,000 Texts; McCarthy Commits To Key Concession, But No Guarantee He'll Win Speaker. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 02, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:13]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour here on the first Monday of the New Year, I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Happy New Year. I'm Jim Sciutto. A new this morning, story we're following closely. CNN has learned that the suspect accused of attacking three NYPD officers on New Year's Eve was interviewed by the FBI in mid-December and then placed on a terrorist watch list.

All of these after his family became increasingly concerned about his desire to travel to Afghanistan and join the Taliban. What this could all mean particularly as he awaits charges.

HILL: We are also this morning learning more about the man arrested in connection with the brutal stabbing deaths of four Idaho college students. His family underscoring his presumption of innocence in their first statement. He's set to make his first court appearance tomorrow. Just ahead, we'll take a closer look at what the sealed criminal complaint could tell us.

Let's begin though this hour with the latest in that investigation into the New Year's Eve machete attack here in New York City on three NYPD officer. CNN National Correspondent Gloria Pazmino joining us now live. So we are learning more about the suspect, the fact that he had been interviewed by the FBI, Gloria. What more do we know?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Erica. We are learning more about Trevor Bickford, the 19-year-old man from Maine who law enforcement sources tell us is believed to be behind this attack on three police officers on New Year's Eve as you mentioned.

Right here in Times Square, the area where thousands of people were gathering to Washington New Year's Eve Ball Drop, that's where this man tried to approach police officers that were staged at a security point several blocks away from here. In many ways, this area as crowded as you see it today was safer on that evening because it was so much security.

Still, he approached three police officers that were guarding a security point, and I talked to one of them, with a machete. We are also learning that Trevor Bickford was interviewed by FBI officers last month in Maine after he expressed his desire to travel to Afghanistan to join the Taliban and saying that he was willing to die for his religion.

We've also learned that Trevor Bickford was carrying a backpack that was discarded not far from the scene here in Manhattan, where he had a handwritten diary, also expressing some of these desires to join the Taliban and to die for his religion.

We can also tell you that it was Trevor Bickford's mother and grandmother who became increasingly concerned with Trevor's plan to travel to Afghanistan, and reported that to the FBI, that is what led to the beginning of that investigation in that subsequent interview.

It also meant that Trevor Bickford was placed on a terrorist watch list. But law enforcement sources tell us that because Trevor Bickford traveled to New York City on an Amtrak train, it did not trigger any kind of security, a red flag for any kind of official.

He traveled here on Saturday, he checked into a hotel in the Lower East Side of Manhattan. And then he arrived here in the area, New Year's Eve and attacked those three police officers.

I should say that one of those police officers did fire a gunshot and struck the suspect in his shoulder. Three of those officers are recovering and are expected to make a full recovery. We should also mention that Trevor Bickford has not been formally charged yet.

Law enforcement sources telling us that both the U.S. attorney and the Manhattan District District Attorney here are looking into the investigation and looking into possible charges. Erica, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Good news certainly about the condition of those officers. Gloria Pazmino there in Time Square. Thanks so much.

Joining us now discuss, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. John, good to have you on this morning.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And I understand you have some new information to report which gets to just how far perhaps the suspect was willing to go.

MILLER: Well, what's interesting is that diary that investigators believe belonged to Trevor Bickford that was found near the scene. The last entry in there says this is likely to be my final entry. It's dated December 31, 2022. And it goes on to lay out basically a last will and testament, how to

divide my belongings, where to -- what family members to give things to, where he wants to be buried, not in the land of the nonbelievers, but it's also a strong indicator that going into this event if he is the attacker that it was a plan that included suicide by cop.

[10:05:07]

SCIUTTO: Just going to say common phenomenon. Yes.

MILLER: Yes.

HILL: And interesting too, when we look at this -- and I heard you point this out earlier, there was, of course, a bullet and that was released, I believe, was on December 30, by the NYPD, just noting which I think we often hear ahead of big events like New Year's Eve, that these could be targets around the country.

But the event itself didn't seem to be the target. It really seemed to be more those officers who were on the perimeter there of times, were making sure that people couldn't get in.

MILLER: So Erica, I don't think you can separate those two things.

HILL: OK.

MILLER: Even though you're exactly right. You're not getting into that event with a backpack, you're not getting into that event with a machete. That's why the checkpoints are there. But attacking the police at the event is an attack against the government, it's an attack against authority, and it also is an attack against the event because what's the story? New Year's Eve at Times Square was attacked.

HILL: Right.

MILLER: And this is what the terrorist propaganda really asks for, among these lone offenders, which is simple weapons, simple plan, basic attack that you can do that will generate big attention because of the where, and the when it happens.

HILL: And the who.

MILLER: And the who.

HILL: Right, when you're certainly when you're going after law enforcement.

SCIUTTO: Doesn't have to be complicated, like pilots flying into the trade centers. Tell us -- and we've talked about this last hour, but just so folks at home are aware, it was significant to have the suspect interviewed by the FBI, put on a terrorist watch list. But for one, terrorist watch list does not keep you off a train.

And as Andy McCabe noted last hour, that's not a foolproof kind of thing, right? Because there are many people who fall into that category, right? It's impossible I imagined to track every single person.

MILLER: So there are literally thousands --

SCIUTTO: Yes,

MILLER: -- of these leads. They're called Guardian leads. They go into a system and they're farmed out to different field offices. This is a very typical lead in its beginnings, which is his mom is concerned. She reaches out to the Wells, Maine Police Department. This is a small town of, you know, 13,000 people by the beach up in Maine.

This is not their field of expertise, but they reach to the FBI's threat call center. And they've talked to an agent there who then sends that lead to the Boston field office that dispatches agents in Maine, to go sit down, talk to the parents, and then ultimately, interview Trevor himself.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MILLER: And in his interview, he goes through, basically, yes, I'd like to go to Afghanistan. Yes, I want to help Muslims. Yes, I'm worried about people in other countries. But he doesn't say he's planning any kind of violence. He does concede, you know, I would be willing to die for my religion.

But he seems to be at the initial stages this investigation, which was not closed. It was just beginning. Somebody whose main goal was to travel overseas, not to do something here.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. And his parents did the right thing, right? In other words, they saw warning signs.

MILLER: They were worried about it.

HILL: Right, if we see something, say something, as we're told all the time.

MILLER: Yes.

HILL: John, appreciate it as always. Thank you.

MILLER: Thanks.

HILL: Let's turn now to the killing of those four college students in Idaho. 28-year-old Bryan Kohberger, the suspect arrested and charged with murder in connection with those brutal deaths is expected to waive his extradition hearing tomorrow in Pennsylvania. Meaning, he could be back in Idaho within days.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Remarkable developments in this case over the last several days. CNN Correspondent Veronica Miracle, she is in Moscow, Idaho with the latest. Veronica, I know that community there it was reeling for weeks, right, because they had no information. They were worried that the attacker might still be out there. So I wonder, how did they receive the shocking news? Is it comforting at all? VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Shocking, comforting, relief. I mean, there's so many words to describe how this community is feeling, and it is truly palpable. When we were at the Moscow police department this weekend, we saw multiple people come by bringing gifts to just say thank you, now that they can finally rest easy for just, you know, the first time in about seven weeks.

The police chief even told me that he's been receiving e-mails of people and calls of people apologizing for doubting the police department throughout this process and criticizing them when they weren't releasing information. Of course, as you just said, they kept the information so close, there was not a single leak from this small department.

And the entire time they kept saying that they were doing it to protect the integrity of the investigation. The police chief says he would do it all over again in the exact same way because they got an arrest. Now the next step is what they're seeking is a conviction. And that is why they've left the tip line open.

They're asking for people not just in this community, but across the country to let them know if they've ever had any interactions with the suspect Bryan Kohberger because they want to paint a bigger picture and a better picture about who this person is. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JAMES FRY, MOSCOW, IDAHO POLICE: Now we're at a new point. Now we know who we're looking at.

[10:10:03]

We want information on that individual. We want that updated information so that we can start building that picture now. Every tip matters. Everything, every piece matters. So we just want, you know, our community and the nation to continue to send us that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: Police Chief James Fry said this exact same thing at the press conference and within an hour of that press conference finishing, they had 400 calls come in about Bryan Kohberger. So that is just the tip of the iceberg and they're seeking more information.

Now, Bryan Kohberger rather remains in Pennsylvania. He has an extradition hearing tomorrow, and his public defender says he plans on waiving extradition so he could be back in Idaho as early as tomorrow. It is more likely that it will take a couple of days but the police chief would not reveal that process to us for security purposes.

The family of Bryan Kohberger has also released a statement through Kohberger's public defender and they said in part, "We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions."

They say they support him. They also say they're praying for those four families who have lost their loved ones. Erica, Jim?

SCIUTTO: A heartbreaking holiday season for those families. No question. Veronica Miracle, thanks so much.

HILL: Joining us now to discuss CNN Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney Joey Jackson. Joey, good morning. When we look at this, we're waiting a lot for this probable cause affidavit understandably, those details. It will be unsealed as I understand it, once he's in Ohio, Idaho, rather served with that arrest warrant. What are you looking for in terms of details that could be in there? What will it tell us?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Erica, good morning to you. Good morning to Jim. It'll tell us an awful lot, right? It'll speak to the issue of probable cause. What does that mean? It means why is he under arrest? What's the justification for holding him and for going after him from a prosecution perspective? What's significant?

Number one, I'm looking for DNA. What if any connection is there? Is his DNA, was his DNA there? And does it establish, you know, with respect to a connection of him being in that residence? Is there any reason to explain the DNA? Is there a basis to know or understand why he would be there? Which leads me to number two, is there any pre- existing relationship? Did he know them? If so, how?

Number three, we've heard an issue as to the white Elantra, what's the connection with the white Alondra? How do they track the vehicle? How do they track it to him? Number four, is there any surveillance which would have him otherwise looking at the victims on that evening or at some other time?

Number five, is there any alibi that the police to this point have looked evaluated and tracked to determine that it does not exist? Number six, are there any witnesses that happen there? There's going to be so much there and I can go on, Erica, that would connect him according to the police to show he had probable cause to engage in this --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JACKSON: -- heinous crime.

SCIUTTO: And we know they were surveilling him for I think four days before they arrested him as they built a case to kind of get things in order. He was a graduate student at Washington State University in the Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology. He could be linked at a -- to a research project to, quote, understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime.

Oh my goodness, when I read that, I think, profile, you know, how does that work into the profile of how they found him. But I also wonder, could this have given him the ability to, well, evade law enforcement for some time given his knowledge to this point of the criminal justice system?

JACKSON: Yes, you know, Jim, they're going to look at that and they're going to look at that very closely right now to be clear, what if anything, you study, your prior history --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JACKSON: -- et cetera. All of that is irrelevant. Does it go and demonstrate that you committed this crime? No. But I think inquiring minds want to know what was his motivation. Not that you have to establish or otherwise prove motivation, Jim, Erica, at all. But the reality is, is that jurors want to know as you piece together the case, as you demonstrate for the jurors, if it goes to that level, right?

His lawyer has indicated he wants to be exonerated. So that means there'll be a trial where the evidence will come forward. So a profile of the individual that you're dealing with, his prior history, his connections, what he's thinking, when he was thinking it, why he would do it, all of that is particularly relevant.

I should point out that Idaho is a death penalty state.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JACKSON: We'll see whether or if not prosecutors will be moving forward with respect to the death penalty in this case.

HILL: Joey, one of the things that stood out too, was the investigators were told honed in on him as a suspect through DNA evidence. And by confirming his ownership of that Hyundai Elantra. A source telling CNN that, in fact, it was genetic genealogy techniques that were used to connect Kohberger to this unidentified DNA evidence. I mean, I read that and I think, is this ancestry, is this 23 and me, what do you take away from that?

JACKSON: Yes, you know, I take away from in, Erica, not that it's foolproof that is DNA. And as defense attorneys persistently challenged the DNA, the contamination of DNA, how the DNA got there, what if any reason or basis it would be there, how long it would be? So there's a lot of things to challenge.

[10:15:12]

And no one should think, oh, DNA, the case is over. It's not. But we do have a very sophisticated, at this point, right, technological base in order to establish, you know, how is this connection there? What genealogy, what connected you if not you specifically right in your ancestry that leads there and it's so sophisticated --

HILL: Right.

JACKSON: -- and it's very difficult to overcome, because that is our blueprint. And so I'm going to be looking for what that stated in the probable cause --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JACKSON: -- affidavit and how that is significant moving forward in his prosecution. SCIUTTO: Yes. There's been a few cases where genetic genealogy as it's known has have helped lead to suspects.

HILL: Yes. Joey Jackson, appreciate it. Good to see it. Happy New Year, my friend.

JACKSON: Thank you so much, Erica and Jim.

SCIUTTO: All right, well, the same storm that pummeled California with deadly flooding is now headed east, bringing more heavy rain, snow and possibly tornadoes. This after all the cold --

HILL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- just a few days ago.

HILL: I mean, look at some of these pictures. So this is what this dangerous storm left behind in some areas, widespread flooding, power outages across northern California. Two people were killed. Emergency crews had to rescue several people who'd been trapped by high waters. Parts of Sacramento County under evacuation orders today, this after two levees failed.

SCIUTTO: It seems to be a natural disaster week. Well still to come, the January 6 Committee is releasing another wave of interview transcripts from committee's investigation into the U.S. Capitol attack. And new details we are learning from the latest batch of witness testimony.

Plus, House GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy is making some big concessions to hardline conservatives hoping to get their votes but he's still struggling to get to the figure he needs to become the next House speaker. Will he be able to seal the deal by that vote tomorrow?

HILL: And a bit later, as we kick off this new year, are you drinking enough water? A new study says the simple act of staying hydrated could help you live longer. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:21:31]

SCIUTTO: This just in to CNN, the tennis legend, 66-year-old Martina Navratilova via a statement from the Women's Tennis Association this morning, has announced she's been diagnosed with stage one throat cancer and breast cancer.

HILL: The winner of 59 Grand Slam titles calling this a, quote, double whammy that is serious but still fixable, writing, it's going to stink for a while. But I'll fight with all I've got. It was a discovery and an enlarged lymph node in her neck that reportedly led to both discoveries.

SCIUTTO: Yes, early detection makes such a difference. Navratilova already battled breast cancer once before this back in 2010. With Republicans poised to take control of the House tomorrow, the January 6 Committee has released what could be its final round of witness interview transcripts.

HILL: Those transcripts shedding some new light on how the panel conducted its investigation, also revealing details about what key witnesses told investigators and frankly, what they didn't --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: -- say. CNN's Katelyn Polantz joining us now with more. So in this latest batch, what really stands out to you, Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Jim and Erica, these are showing us the limitations of the committee's investigation in a lot of ways. So my colleagues Sara Murray, Tierney Sneed, Annie Grayer, and Kit Maher went through many new transcripts and documents last night that were released.

And they over and over again are showing how people's memories fade, how there are witnesses that don't recall things, that don't share things, and then other witnesses who refuse to answer questions. So I want to highlight a couple of those. The first one that is really striking is Trump's executive assistant, Molly Michael was sitting in the White House on January 6.

She received a short call from President Donald Trump in the middle of the riot. She was asked what -- by Trump, she was asked what her opinion was, and 12 times in her transcript, she doesn't give an answer. She says she can't remember. Some of her answers, "The images I was seeing is the predominant memory I have. I just don't have a memory of his response. The phones were ringing. A lot was happening, I don't recall. I don't remember him expressing anything."

So the committee really trying to get to the bottom there of that exchange. And they're just not getting an answer. There are others, Ken Chesebro, an attorney that was working as one of the architects of this plan to use Congress and Mike Pence to block the election result. He took the fifth, he didn't provide any answers.

There were others who never showed up for their interviews or depositions under subpoena. And the committee made clear that they knew what they were going to ask of those people and they just weren't going to be able to get answers. So one of those people was Mark Meadows, the White House Chief of Staff, he ended up turning over many text messages and almost 7,000 emails that we hadn't seen before.

And the House Select Committee convened in an interview and did a transcription of what they would have asked Meadows if he had showed up. It's marked as a no-show transcript. They say, "We would have asked him about e-mails reflecting the Trump campaign's effort to challenge election results, including a December 23rd e-mail from Mr. Meadows, quote, 'Rudy was put in charge. That was the President's decision.'"

The committee then notes that that reflects a direct communication between Mr. Meadows and the President that they obviously weren't able to get to. But we'll keep looking at these to see what other things the committee has unearth. Jim and Erica?

SCIUTTO: DOJ looking through as well. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

POLANTZ: Indeed.

HILL: Well just one more day here before Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy faces that critical vote to become the new Speaker of the House. Nine Republican hardliners have made it clear that some of the concessions McCarthy announced on Sunday, well, they're just not enough. They want more specific commitments.

[10:25:07]

SCIUTTO: Joining us now Ron Brownstein, Senior Editor for The Atlantic. I mean, he's got about 24 hours to go here to get those votes. I'm not clear that he does, but if he does, he's going into this with handcuffs on, right? I mean, just five votes to call for a vote to remove the speaker. I mean, what kind of speaker would have Kevin McCarthy be under these rules?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely, Jim. I think that is the key point. No one -- I think it would be Kevin McCarthy can tell you exactly how this is going to turn out tomorrow at this point.

But the most important outcome, I think has already decided which is that the right flank of the caucus aligned with Trump has signaled that it has the leverage and the power to go its own way and that there is highly unlikely that there's going to be any significant restraint or discipline of them.

You know, McCarthy has apparently agreed to even establish a Select Subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government. Marjorie Taylor Greene says he's promised to probe the treatment of the January 6 rioters. You mentioned the lower threshold for motion to vacate the chair.

All of this after an election in which voters in all of the key swing states clearly signaled that they saw too much extremism in elements of the Republican Party. Now you're going to have the right embolden and, in many ways, unleashed.

HILL: It also raises the question of what's actually going to happen in Washington when we talk about legislation and actual governance.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, first, you're going to get a lot of investigations as we've, you know, noted. And you're going to have investigations that will inevitably raise some uncomfortable revelations for the Biden administration. But we'll also further identify, I think the House Republicans with the grievances, priorities and conspiracy theories of the -- of, you know, the far- right.

Beyond that, I think it's going to be very difficult for this caucus to reach agreement with Biden on anything but the bare minimum to keep the government running. And even that is going to be a challenge, particularly the debt ceiling later this year. I mean, the core dynamic, Erica, as you've got 170 members, roughly three quarters of the caucus from deep Trump country, districts that Trump won by 10 points or more in 2020.

But their majority is based on those 18 House Republicans and districts that actually voted for President Biden. 11 of them from New York and California --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: -- alone, districts are going to be tougher in '24 than they were in '22. And their priorities are going to be very different from what the bulk of the caucus is looking for, which is showing their voters are home that they are fighting Biden by any means necessary.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Is that a good election strategy for 2024. Got a little bit of time before that. You mentioned the investigations and a whole host of things that are on the list here. One of them, though, is going to be the Afghanistan withdrawal. And this is something you talked about raising uncomfortable questions. I mean, very --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- genuine, credible questions as to the decision making leading up to that particularly where we saw, how that day of the withdrawal went and all the consequences since then the Taliban taking over.

BROWNSTEIN: Right, this is going to be -- look, this is going to be the challenge I think for the House Republicans. Clearly, you know, whenever you have a change in control of Congress, there is the opportunity for more serious oversight that is necessary on matters like the Afghanistan withdrawal or the management of the border.

The question is, can they keep it focused on policy and substance, or does it devolve into, again, this kind of airing of grievances and conspiracy theories? For example, like, even on the border, do they highlight the problems, or do they try to impeach the DHS Secretary as kind of, you know, a statement to their base.

I mean, the question -- that is the core question across all of these issues. There are -- inevitably, there are going to be areas where they can raise important questions and reduce important revelations. Can they stop with that? Can they control themselves, or will they behave as if they are trying to create programming for Fox? I mean, that really is the challenge.

HILL: Right. This will become more performance art and airing of grievances. And I want to get my outrage out there, or can they get these -- I should point out, legitimate important questions that need to be answered. Can they do that? We'll see.

SCIUTTO: We'll see. Perhaps a mix of both. Ron Brownstein, Happy New Year to you and your family.

BROWNSTEIN: Happy New Year, guys. Yes.

HILL: Senior citizens set to see a big bump in their social security checks. Is that boost enough to make up for the inflation? So many Americans are experiencing. We've got those details for you ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)