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Chaos in Congress; House Reconvenes Today; Rep. Don Bacon (R- NE) is Interviewed about the Speaker Vote; Update on Damar Hamlin; Dr. Barry Maron is Interviewed about Damar Hamlin; McCarthy Empowers Colleagues. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 04, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:35]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. A day of vote counting here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Vote counting part dos (ph), right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: I'm Erica Hill. Good morning, everyone.

We are keeping a close watch on Washington for just that purpose. A few short hours from now the new GOP controlled House set to gavel in for a second day as they try here to elect a speaker because, of course, remember, without one, not much is happening. New members can't even be sworn in.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: After three rounds of voting, presumptive front-runner Kevin McCarthy not only failed to corral his caucus and secure the 218 votes needed to become speaker, he actually lost support as the day dragged on. We are live from Capitol Hill.

SCIUTTO: And we'll be talking to a member of Congress who's central to these negotiations.

Plus, Buffalo Bills' Damar Hamlin, he remains sedated in critical condition on a ventilator. This after experiencing that shocking cardiac arrest during Monday night football. His uncle tells CNN that he had to be resuscitated, not just once on the field but twice.

And the man charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of four Idaho college students could be back in Idaho very soon. We're already learning more about how officials found Bryan Kohberger in Pennsylvania. There's -- there he is right there.

But we do begin on Capitol Hill this morning where Congressman Kevin McCarthy now faces the task of getting 20 votes back on his side, those are Republican votes back on his side as speaker. CNN is following this all around the Capitol Building this morning as lawmakers arrive.

HILL: Let's bring in CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox.

So, Lauren, in that last round of voting, 20 Republicans voted for Congressman Jim Jordan, who, of course, had nominated Kevin McCarthy. What is he saying this morning?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is such a remarkable moment on the floor yesterday, Erica, where you had Jim Jordan actually nominating Kevin McCarthy to be the next speaker. Meanwhile, he is getting complete unity from that group of hardliners who are voting for him on the floor for speaker.

Now, he did tell our Manu Raju yesterday that he is not interested in the job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Is there any chance that you may be speaker of the House?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): No. I -- watch yourself. No. I'm being clear, I want to - I want to - I want to chair the Judiciary Committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And Jim Jordan could be a very important linchpin to trying to deliver these votes that Kevin McCarthy needs because he is so close to the House Freedom Caucus. He's close to many of those hardliners. The hope being maybe he can help negotiate some way forward. But right now, just not clear what that path is.

Erica.

SCIUTTO: Lauren Fox, thanks so much.

CNN's Jessica Dean, she's also on The Hill this morning.

There's still negotiations underway. I mean there's also theorizing about another adjournment. Where exactly do things stand? And, by the way, as I ask that question, I know things are changing by the minute.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they certainly are. And these negotiations are happening as we speak, Jim and Erica. This is very much ongoing. It went late into the night. We saw various McCarthy emissaries going in and out of his office. We know that they're reaching out to these 20 hardliners. At one point one of them saying that this is going to be a longer process of negotiations, that they can go to some of these -- they said that they know that they don't -- they are not going to get all 20, but they don't need all 20. But they do need a large chunk of them. Again, he can only afford to lose four.

So, we know that McCarthy and his allies continue to negotiate. That he's still trying to give concessions. But, remember, he's given away a lot of concessions at this point. He doesn't have a ton of cards left to play.

We also know that this group of 20 is talking amongst themselves. That they're also seeking out who might be a consensus candidate of sorts, someone that they could get behind. Congressman Byron Donalds was on CNN THIS MORNING just a little bit earlier today. He talked about what that process might look like.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): I'm not going to do -- reveal names. There are members who are talking about different alternatives, people who might be able to find a pathway to get to 218. And then from there, you know, we'll have those discussions between members one-on-one, between groups of members, caucuses and see how that shakes out.

I don't think there's going to be anybody from outside the House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, again, the stage is set for later today at noon. They come back. Will they adjourn to have further meetings and further negotiations? Will there be another vote? That is what we are waiting to hear. We're hearing that it is likely there will be another vote. That's what (INAUDIBLE) told our Lauren Fox just a few moments ago. But, again, we have to wait and see.

That's several hours from now, Jim and Erica.

[09:05:01]

So much can change in this situation in several hours.

SCIUTTO: No question. We'll keep watching.

Jessica Dean, thanks so much.

All right, so joining me now is someone deeply involved in all of this, Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska.

Congressman, nice to have you back on the show.

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Thank you, Jim. It's always an honor to be on with you. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, first, let's begin with the vote. Kevin McCarthy actually lost a vote over the course of those first three yesterday. Based on what you know, can he turn that around? Can he get the votes to be speaker?

BACON: He can, but we've just got to be honest with what's happened here. A small group, a handful, have made demands over the last two months. Every demand they asked for was given. I didn't agree with these demands. I thought we should have demanded some kind of quid pro quo back for demands (INAUDIBLE). SCIUTTO: Yes.

BACON: These - these are unilateral concessions that Kevin made, but then they never came back to support him. And so they keep changing the goalposts.

So, I think these folks will be very hard to get to yes. That's just the way they are. They love gridlock, they love chaos and that's what we see going on here. So, I hope Kevin continues to work there. He should hold firm because 91 percent of the conference supports him. He's done more than anyone else to help regain this majority. He's worked hard for four years. He's been in every district. So, I encourage him to continue.

But he may also have to start looking across the aisle to determine if there could be some compromises made on committee ratios and things like that because if these -- the small handful refuse to be part of the team, you cannot let them hold you hostage. And that's what they're doing right now. And they don't think we have the wherewithal to do anything without them. And we need to show them otherwise.

SCIUTTO: You noted this yesterday, this idea of reaching across the aisle to find a consensus candidate. That is, reaching across to Democrats. Are there any such talks underway right now with Democrats?

BACON: There are preliminary talks, but we don't want to go too fast on this because that then highjacks what Kevin is try to do. And we want to support Kevin. I mean he's worked hard to get this. But if at some point the small handful of folks who refuse to be part of the team after the conference overwhelmingly voted for Kevin, if they make it clear that they cannot be team players, well, then we have to look somewhere else.

In the end, we have to govern. This is about leading the greatest country in the world and we cannot let a small handful of folks that are on the extreme part of our conference, one of the smallest caucuses that we have, we can't let them control the entire House of Representatives.

SCIUTTO: I understand the desire to keep the content of such talks underway private at this point, but let me ask you this. You say you need a consensus candidate. In your view, is that consensus candidate McCarthy or someone else?

BACON: Well, we should -- I think we should absolutely start with Kevin. And I'm a -- as long as Kevin has his name in the ring, we should be working to get him 218 votes.

I also think at some point he needs to work with Hakeem Jeffries to talk about committee ratios, office spaces, how we're going to do various rules that could open up some doors for the Democrats with like motions to recommit and things like this. There could be some ground there where he could work across the aisle and maybe achieve 218 votes that way.

And there's different ways to do that. Some folks could vote absent or present or just not vote. There's different ways to go about it.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BACON: But if at some point he can't get there, and these folks refuse to be part of the team, that's what they're doing, they're trying to hijack the team, they're trying to run the House with a handful of people, and that's unacceptable to the rest of us, well, then we have to work across the aisle.

In the end, you've got to have a bipartisan capability in the House because you've got to work with the Senate, you've got to work with the Democratic president. And I'm not sure that this small handful is willing to do that.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you this. You're -- folks at home might not know this, but you're unusual and you're a Republican. You've won in a district that is competitive.

BACON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: You know, a lot of -- most districts are not, right? And you have a lot of folks who were here in districts that, frankly, they hold these hardline positions. They'll be just fine.

But what you're talking about here would be Republicans in effect defying some Republican voters here. I mean are those votes that they could survive down the line, right? I mean do folks say this is something they'd be willing to do to get to a speaker and cooperate with Democrats?

BACON: Right. Well, we have to be Americans first. And I went - you know, to our Freedom Caucus friends -- by the way, it's a minority of the Freedom Caucus that is doing this. The majority of the Freedom Caucus supports Kevin McCarthy. By the way, and most conservative commentators are supporting Kevin.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BACON: It is a small group. They're demanding their way or the highway. And they're hurting the party. They're hurting us in 2024.

I listened to the news last night. I was sick to my stomach. The small group is putting mud all over all the Republican Party at this point. And to hear the other side mocking us during the votes yesterday, that's all on these 20 people. And I would -- hope they see that.

But, you know, I commanded an Air Force squadron in combat.

[09:10:02]

I commanded five times. I deployed four times. You've got to be a team. Even if it's only an 80 percent, 85 percent perfect team, you've got to form a team. That's how you get things done.

SCIUTTO: Yes. BACON: Nancy Pelosi was able to do it with 222 people last time. We've got to be able to do the same thing. And this small group is hurting us, hurting the GOP nationally.

SCIUTTO: We did hear this morning from Trump. Didn't hear a lot yesterday from him. But this morning he is reiterating his support for McCarthy as speaker on his Truth Social app. Will that win over -- do you believe that can win over McCarthy's opponents?

BACON: It may with - it may with some of these folks because they're pretty, you know, hard core in the President Trump's camp. And I, you know, I think we need all voices to speak up on this.

You know, when you get 91 percent of the vote, you should coalesce around that team and -- instead of demanding what you want.

Let me, Jim, if I may, they demanded a month ago a whole list of concessions. They got them all. About a week and a half ago they did a whole nother list. They got almost all of it. And if they didn't get it, they got halfway on one or two.

And then, on Monday night, they demanded to have chairmanships on various committees and have more seats on the Approps, Ways and Means and the Rules Committee. And that's unacceptable. These committees and the chairmanships are merit based. And they want an affirmative action program for the Freedom Caucus. And the rest of us think it's unacceptable.

SCIUTTO: Wow. Should -- you mentioned conservative commentators who have been - and, by the way, they're influential, as we know. But one of them, Hugh Hewitt, and others have said McCarthy should start taking concessions back, actually. That, as you say, he made these concessions, got nothing in return.

BACON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean when you say he should hold the line, should he go that far?

BACON: Well, I believe so. Some of these concessions, I thought, were unacceptable, but they could not even get to yes with these concessions. To vacate the chair, you know, to try to figure out how many people you need to try to bring the speaker back and recall him, we had it at 121, you know, as of last month. They wanted one. They want - they have a single Republican to have a gun to the speaker's head on every vote.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BACON: President - or Kevin McCarthy negotiated it down to five. I don't think that was smart. I think we should take all that back now because he made these concessions with the intent that they would meet him halfway, and they have not done so at all. So, I agree with Hugh Hewitt, take these concessions back.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Don Bacon, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

BACON: Thank you.

HILL: Lots to dig into this that conversation.

Still to come here, we are live outside the hospital where Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin remains in critical condition this morning. There are new details, though, about the moments after he collapsed on the field. We're also joined by a cardiologist who specializes in this case of sudden cardiac arrest, which some athletes have experienced.

SCIUTTO: Plus, the man facing quadruple murder charges in the brutal stabbings of four University of Idaho students could be back in Idaho as soon as today. Why one prosecutor says Kohberger also wants to see what's in that affidavit.

And later, the FDA is clearing the way for women to get abortion pills more easily. The new changes that are increasing access to abortions in this country as some states are still trying to ban it all together.

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[09:17:20]

HILL: Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin fighting for his life. His uncle telling CNN overnight he is still intubated and has actually been placed on his stomach. That's to take some pressure off of his lungs. Support, meantime, we have just seen it exploding, continuing to grow for Hamlin after that horrific moment when he fell after going into cardiac arrest on the field after a tackle. That, of course, during Monday night's game against the Cincinnati Bengals.

You probably heard a lot about the GoFundMe that he had started. It was for a toy drive. It is now at more than $6 million in donations. Pretty remarkable.

CNN correspondent Adrienne Broaddus live now outside Cincinnati Hospital, where he is in intensive care.

And I know, Adrienne, you have actually been speaking with his family.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I spoke with his uncle, Dorrian Glenn, outside of the hospital last night, and he told me he and his brother will not -- and the rest of the family, quite frankly, won't be able to rest until Damar is out of the intensive care unit. He also says the next step that doctors will be focusing on is getting Damar to breathe on his own.

I want to share with our viewers more of my conversation with his uncle.

Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DORRIAN GLENN, DAMAR HAMLIN'S UNCLE: Well, his heart had went out. So, they had to resuscitate him twice. They resuscitated him on the field before they brought him to the hospital, and then they resuscitated him a second time when he got to the hospital. So, I just want to show my gratitude for the medical staff that were on hand because if not for them my nephew probably wouldn't even be here.

We were all in tears, man. And I'm not a crier. But, like, I never cried so hard in my life, man. Just - just to know like - like my nephew basically died on the field and they brought him back to life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: An abundance of gratitude for the team inside of this hospital working around the clock to help Damar Hamlin recover.

Outside of the hospital, we've seen an outpouring of support. There's what I'd like to call the get well soon corner. There are balloons with get well soon messages. And there's also a single golden balloon with the number 3. That is the number Damar wears on the football field. But he is number one in the hearts of his family. And they tell me, because of the community's outpouring of support and those prayers, that's what is helping them to get through. But as you can imagine, the unknown is terrifying.

Jim and Erica.

HILL: Yes, it certainly is.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Adrienne Broaddus, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also joining now to discuss, Dr. Barry Maron, a cardiologist and professor of medicine at Lahey Hospital and Medical Center.

[09:20:02]

Dr. Maron, it's good to have you with us this morning.

I was struck when I heard Damar Hamlin's uncle tell my colleague Adrienne Broaddus there that he actually had to be resuscitated a second time. We know how important every second, every moment is in these instances. Were you surprised at all when he mentioned that, that there had -- this had to happen a second time?

DR. BARRY MARON, CARDIOLOGIST, LAHEY HOSPITAL AND MEDICAL CENTER: Well, only in the sense that commotio cordis, which is the condition here, is typically in individuals with normal hearts, structurally normal hearts without disease. And it's the blow, the chest blow, that elicits an arrhythmia that can be reversed, as it was eventually here.

Why there should be the implication of damage to the heart resulting in a second cardiac arrest later, I'm not sure. HILL: OK. We've also learned that he had been turned onto his stomach

to alleviate some of that pressure on his lungs. Just based on what we know publicly and based on your experience, what are your concerns this morning?

MARON: Well, I can't really comment about the -- you know, the events and the treatment that are taking place after the event, OK? The -- it's probably very complicated and it's hard to imagine. I can only say that the fact that there was a second cardiac arrest implies that there may be heart damage.

That could be part of the resuscitative measures and all that. But, at this point, I don't think anybody can really speculate about a complicated situation like that.

HILL: And hard to know if we don't know the condition of his heart, to your point, what it was prior or perhaps what the impact was of that event.

When we look -- and if we pull out broader here, the Sports Institute says about one or two out of every 100,000 athletes can experience sudden cardiac arrest annually. And I think people, when we think about this, we think more about what we've seen in other sports, in football, in basketball, for example, when this happens suddenly to someone in the middle of a game, not necessarily and exactly the way that we saw on Monday night.

A number of states, New York, Maryland, Texas, have passed or proposed laws which would require to have these external defibrillators, the AEDs in schools. I see them increasingly in a number of public spaces. Can you talk to us, when you're not the NFL and you don't have these medical teams ready to go, how important is it to have these devices readily available?

MARON: Well, it's critical. I'm not sure they weren't here. Again, it's not clear -

HILL: No. No, I don't mean in this situation. I mean - I mean broader. Exactly to your point, the fact that there has been such an important push -- I mean I've done stories on it, you know, with families -- the family of a 16-year-old who dropped dead suddenly playing -- a basketball player and their push to get AEDs in more schools. And we are seeing this legislation and these proposals more.

Can you just speak to the importance of those devices across the board in different situations when, again, you are not dealing with a professional football situation where they do have medical teams at the ready.

MARON: Right. Well, again, it's critical. The AED is lifesaving. And the more AEDs that are in these situations, the more lives that will be saved for sure. I don't think there's any debate about that. The question, of course, concerns process and making that happen.

HILL: Yes. Well, certainly raising the conversation again and hopefully we'll keep it -- keep it there to bring more of those to be available.

Dr. Barry Maron, appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, more Hill drama. Sources tell CNN that Congressman Kevin McCarthy worried about looking weak as he tries to get the speakership. He needs 20 Republicans to vote for him. The lengths the GOP is going through to get this done, they hope, today. That's coming up.

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[09:28:53]

HILL: This just into CNN. House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, we're told, is empowering five Republican congressmen to negotiate a deal for his speakership. That list includes Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick, Garret Graves, French Hill, Patrick McHenry and Guy Reschenthaler.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now to talk about the prospects for a deal, national political correspondent for "Time," Molly Ball, and Republican strategist Doug Heye. He's former RNC communications director.

Good to have you both on.

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Doug, I spoke to Don Bacon a few minutes ago on this broadcast, of course, Republican who's been involved in some of these negotiations. He said preliminary talks are underway with Democrats about the possibility of finding some consensus candidate.

Now I'm aware how much of a longshot that is in reality given you'd have to have both parties helping each other, but is that at least a possibility, right, that they may not get anywhere and therefore they have to work together on a speaker?

HEYE: It's about as small possibility as there is. But as they said famously in a movie, so you're saying there's a chance. There's a chance. It's a very small one.

[09:29:56]

And what's interesting now is this group of five people, and Patrick McHenry from North Carolina is, I think, maybe the smartest member of Congress that I've worked with, are looking at options as to negotiating with the troublemakers within the