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McCarthy Makes Big Concessions; Talks Productive in the House; House Reconvenes After McCarthy's Six Vote Rejections; Kohberger Likely to Face Judge Today; Family of Eight Shot in Utah; Hamlin Showing Signs of Improvement. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 05, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:30]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Is there movement on Capitol Hill? We are watching closely this morning as the standoff over who will be the next House speaker has now entered its third day. California Republican Kevin McCarthy failed to secure the votes needed after a total now of six rounds of voting. But, after furious negotiations last night, lots of coffee, new major concessions to his hard line opponents, McCarthy's speaker bid could be showing new signs of life. Right now, hard line members who have held out against his speakership are still meeting behind closed doors.

HILL: And these new concessions, first reported by CNN, include what was once a red line for McCarthy. Once a red line. Agreeing to propose a rules change that would allow just one member to call for a vote to oust a sitting speaker. But even with that concession, it is not clear at this hour if McCarthy will ultimately be able to lock down the votes he needs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you have a - I mean do you have a deal with those guys right now?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): No, not yet, but a lot of progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: He says a lot of progress.

We are following that progress this morning across the Capitol and Washington. Full team on standby there.

Lauren Fox, let's kick things off with you.

So you have a little bit more information on this meeting with the McCarthy holdouts. What are you learning? LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we expect that this

meeting is going to be really important because it is a key sign of whether or not these lawmakers are going to get behind Kevin McCarthy today, tomorrow, the next day, next week. And I think one of the things we're going to be looking for is if these concessions are really making a difference. The most important one that you pointed out, of course, lowering the threshold of how many members it would take to force a vote to oust a sitting speaker, just from five members, now down to one.

The other concession that Kevin McCarthy made that will fundamentally really change the way that the House could function is he promised to put more members of the Freedom Caucus, some of those hardliners, on the influential Rules Committee. That committee sets the agenda for which bills come to the floor, how those bills are structured on the floor, how many votes they take, what the amendment process looks like. It's a very important functioning committee. And it's usually just an extension of the speaker's office, most of the time his key allies sitting on that committee. So another important concession.

I'll tell you, this morning, one moderate that I spoke to had a lot of concerns about how far McCarthy is going here and the influence it would have on their ability to govern going forward.

Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we had a moderate on this broadcast yesterday, Don Bacon, who expressed some of the same reservations.

Lauren Fox, thanks so much.

Let's go to CNN's Melanie Zanona.

All right, so Texas Congressman Chip Roy, he's been a holdout against McCarthy. Central to these ongoing negotiations. He's saying, though, that if negotiations panned out, that could actually flip a number of these holdouts. Enough? What are you hearing?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, there's a reason why Kevin McCarthy is negotiating with Chip Roy and not Matt Gaetz or Lauren Boebert. McCarthy really sees Chip Roy as negotiating in good faith and that he's gettable and that he wants to get to yes. And perhaps more importantly, they believe that Chip Roy is speaking for more than just himself. In fact, sources told me that Chip Roy informed GOP leadership that he believes he can bring along ten or so members of the opposition with him and potentially even more -- get more detractors to vote present, which would lower the threshold McCarthy needs to get to 218 if they can agree on some of these concessions.

Now, that is far from certain. They are still looking things over. They're having a meeting right now to talk it over. Members of the operation are. And even if he does bring along ten or so members, doing the math here, that does not get Kevin McCarthy to 218. So, Kevin McCarthy would still have a lot of work to do. And I think the other main concern right now among McCarthy's allies

is how many people will never come along. How many people are in the so-called never-Kevin camp. Remember, he can only afford to lose four votes on the House floor, assuming everyone is there and voting.

Just take a listen to what Warren Davidson, a member of the Freedom Caucus, which is aligned with a lot of these opponents, who is supporting McCarthy, said on CNN THIS MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): The tough part is I think the number that will never for Kevin McCarthy is more than - is more than four. He may never make it to 218. He may make it to a majority of the House. There are a couple of procedural paths where he could pull that off.

But there are - you know, whether people change their votes or don't vote, don't participate, there's a way to change the number.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:05:08]

ZANONA: So, that is just a reminder of the tough road ahead for Kevin McCarthy, even as he attempts to show progress. But as of right now, the goal for Kevin McCarthy is to show momentum and to potentially flip some more votes. Even if he doesn't get to 218 on the next ballot, him and his allies want to show that things are moving in the right direction.

Jim. Erica.

HILL: We know you'll be following it all very closely and bringing us all those updates.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Melanie, appreciate it.

Joining us now to discuss, Republican strategist Alice Stewart and Heather Caygle, managing editor for "Punchbowl News."

Nice to see you both this morning.

Heather, one thing that keeps - that really stands out to me in all of this, let's say McCarthy is able to pull this off, but with these current concessions, and I'm specifically thinking of the fact that one member could push for this motion to vacate.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Is there any concern among camp McCarthy that by giving up all of this, giving up all of this power, he could, in turn, have the shortest term as speaker ever? If it's just one member, he could be there for five minutes. HEATHER CAYGLE, MANAGING EDITOR, "PUNCHBOWL NEWS": Yes, it's

absolutely a concern. And I think for weeks and weeks this was a red line for McCarthy. He said, I will not budge on the motion to vacate. I will not given into that. It will make me an ineffective, weak speaker. And, you know, that was his red line. And he refused to give this to the conservatives. Something that they -- their number one demand. And now he seems to be giving in to it so that he can get the votes that he needs to get to 218 even though it doesn't even guarantee that.

But this is a huge question. And not just that concession but also allowing these members to sit on the rules committee, to pick who sits on the rules committee, bringing spending bills to the floor with kind of an open rule so members can bring up any amendment that they want. All kinds of concessions that are being offered behind the scenes right now. I think you have a lot of moderate Republicans who are looking at this and saying, OK, this may get Kevin McCarthy to 218, but what does this get us? Will he be an effective speaker? And there's a lot of concerns with that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Alice Stewart, is this smart politics for the GOP? They just had a midterm election where the more extremist candidates lost by and large. Whose interests does this kind of fight and do these kinds of concessions serve? Does it serve the parties?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no. And you hit the nail on the head, Jim, in terms of one of the issues that's getting lost. Republican midterm voters sent a resounding message to the extremist candidates and the election deniers and the conspiracy theorists that they don't want any more of that. The problem is, those very people really are holding the rest of the conference hostage. We have this fringe element of the Republican Party that are not operating in good faith and essentially we have 10 percent of the conference that are dictating the terms for 90 percent of Republicans.

And as we've mentioned, Kevin McCarthy has given many concessions as we have outlined with regard to motion to vacate, term limits, as well as votes on securing the border and Freedom Caucus members on the Rules Committee.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

STEWART: He's really watering down the position and it's certainly not going to be representative of what the Republican Party is. I've spoken with many members, rational, moderate Republicans on the floor. They're frustrated. They're frustrated that Gaetz and Boebert are dictating the terms and, in their mind, many of them have said it's time for the morons to move on (INAUDIBLE) business of running (INAUDIBLE) this country. And it's really causing an extreme problem with getting the work done.

If they're truly concerned about the issues that they were elected to do, addressing the economy, securing the border, addressing crime, they need to elect a speaker, seat people on committees and do the job that they were put here to do.

HILL: So, Alice, to that point, really quickly, is there - is there enough, right? We talk so much, and we have over the last several days about how 90 percent of the conference is with Kevin McCarthy. But the reality is, this isn't working, right? And that other 10 percent does seem to hold all the cards yet again this morning. Is there some ream strategizing? Are they having the hard conversations behind the scenes of we need another option?

STEWART: There are. Many that I've spoken with say they had good conversations last night that lasted into this morning. And McCarthy is making some progress with regard to having negotiations. Many are suggesting -

HILL: All right, but does it need to be somebody other than Kevin McCarthy? Because, to your point, Alice, he's given away the store at this point.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: I mean Don Bacon told Jim yesterday he should - he should take back those concessions. And, instead, he's giving more.

STEWART: Exactly. And those on the receiving end have moved the goal post. That's still not enough. They haven't thrown their support behind McCarthy. So they're not acting in good faith. And, yes, people are saying a more consensus candidate, like Steve Scalise, would be someone that could get the approval of the majority of Republicans. He can work across the aisle. He's the kind of leader that doesn't kick a barking dog. If you disagree with him, he will work with you and still come to an agreement and continue to work and agree to disagree.

[09:10:07]

He is someone that would work. Many Republicans would be fine with that because they realize every passing day with this circular firing squad, we're not taking the fight to Joe Biden and Democrats, which is exactly what we need to do.

SCIUTTO: Heather, you guys have been watching this very closely at "Punchbowl." Has there been a momentum shift overnight and into this morning? Because there were Republicans who were all but pronouncing McCarthy's speakership bid dead. That seems to have changed.

CAYGLE: Yes, I mean, there's definitely been a momentum shift. The question is, is it enough?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CAYGLE: Right now a lot of these hardliners are meeting behind closed doors to see if they can get on board with the terms of this deal that Chip Roy and Kevin McCarthy are negotiating. Remember, Chip Roy has promised Kevin McCarthy and his allies that he can probably bring along nine to ten other Republicans with him. But several of these Republicans that he's talking about haven't even agreed to this deal yet. And if -- even if they do, that still leaves a pool of about ten Republicans who are saying, I'm not going to vote for Kevin McCarthy.

Now, sure, conference pressure from other members can probably pick a few of those off. But right now we still have a group of somewhere from five to seven Republicans who are say, never McCarthy. There is nothing he can give me to get me to vote for him.

So, I mean, I think, you know, I think for McCarthy, he just wants to show momentum today because he thinks that momentum will show him - will keep him alive and this will go into the weekend and possibly next week.

STEWART: And, Jim, I think "Punchbowl" hit the nail on the head, and Heather, in terms of how they characterize this. There is signs of support and optimism for Kevin McCarthy, you just have to really squint to see it.

CAYGLE: Yes, I think that's right.

SCIUTTO: I love the images. They help. They help. Kick a barking dog. We got that. And we've got to squint to see the hope here. It helps me.

Alice Stewart, Heather Caygle, thanks so much to both of you.

STEWART: Thanks, Jim.

CAYGLE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next hour I'm going to speak to Republican Congressman French Hill. He is a key negotiator in all this. He's right in the middle of it. So he's going to give us his take on these talks.

Also coming up next, we are watching the courthouse in Moscow, Idaho. That's where the suspect in the murders of four college students could make his first court appearance today. There are new details from his cross-country drive. What we're learning from police body cam video. You're going to want to watch it. It's chilling to see.

HILL: Also ahead here, the Buffalo Bills say Damar Hamlin is showing signs of improvement in the ICU. His friend and high school teammate speaking out more about him this morning. We'll bring you some of that.

Plus, Southwest Airlines still sorting through that sea of lost luggage from the holiday meltdown. And CNN is tracking whether it can actually keep its promise, Southwest, to get most of those bags returned by the end of the week.

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[09:17:02]

HILL: Soon, Bryan Kohberger, the man suspected in the brutal stabbing deaths of four Idaho university students is likely to appear before a judge in Idaho for the first time. He, of course, is facing four first degree murder charges and one count of burglary.

SCIUTTO: Today we could learn more about just why police are focusing on Kohberger as their only suspect at this point. A probable cause affidavit, as it's known, justifying his arrest is expected to be unsealed as early as today. We get to see some of the evidence they used for that.

CNN correspondent Veronica Miracle following all this from Moscow, Idaho.

So, Veronica, how do we expect this to play out today? Will he get his first court appearance today or do we just not know yet?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim and Erica, that is certainly the big question. And because the judge made a sweeping gag order, the police and the prosecutor's office has not been allowed to share any details of the case, including when Bryan Kohberger could make his first appearance in court.

The courthouse opens -- those doors open at 7:15. That's when we are hoping to learn when and if Bryan Kohberger will be in court today. But he is here at the county jail, which is in the same building as the courthouse. It's a small facility here. And he was booked last night on four counts of murder and one count of burglary. And that is after a very long flight from Pennsylvania with multiple stops. He finally landed just across the state line in Washington at the Pullman Regional Airport. And he was quickly whisked away. But before that we did see -- you could see it on camera, police putting a helmet and a vest on him when they were making that handoff, when Pennsylvania State Police handed him off to the local authorities just before they took him away in that car.

The entire time, the police has told us, they were keeping the details about his transport very tight due to security reasons. And you can see that extra layer of security that they added on him.

Now, the reason that he was in Pennsylvania is because he took a cross-country trip with his father in that white Hyundai Elantra that police have been looking for. That was earlier in December. And we know that he was pulled over two times and let off with warnings both times.

We have new body camera video from that first interaction with the Hancock County Sheriff's Office.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER: I'm having a hard time hearing you because of the traffic. So you're coming from Washington State University?

BRYAN KOHBERGER: Yes.

OFFICER: And you're going where?

KOHBERGER: (INAUDIBLE).

OFFICER: So, y'all work at the university there?

KOHBERGER: I actually do work there.

OFFICER: Oh.

KOHBERGER: (INAUDIBLE).

FATHER He's a PHD in criminal justice.

OFFICER: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: He was later pulled over by the Indiana State Police for tailgating. And he was also let off with a warning at that time.

Again, the doors open here at 7:15 this morning. Nothing has yet been scheduled, but we are anticipating, and we are going to be waiting to see what the clerk and the judge release in terms of when Kohberger could appear, if he does appear today in court.

[09:20:07]

Erica. Jim.

HILL: Veronica Miracle with the latest for us there.

Veronica, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, another shocking crime to update on this morning. Officials in Utah investigating after a family of three adults and five children were found shot to death. This happened inside a home in rural southwest Utah.

HILL: Officials learned of the shooting after responding to a welfare check at the home.

CNN correspondent Lucy Kafanov following all this for us.

So, they responded to a welfare check. What more do we know about what led up to that and what they found?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Erica, such a tragic story. Local authorities haven't released a ton of information yet. The victims all members of one family were discovered when, as you point out, police did this welfare check at the home. All eight died from gunshot wounds. Enoch City Police say that this is an active investigation but they don't believe there is a threat to the public or that there are any suspects at large.

Now, this is a tight-knit, rural community of roughly 8,000 people. It's located about 180 miles northeast of Las Vegas, 245 miles south of Salt Lake City. It's the kind of place where neighbors know one another, where homes rarely go up for sale, making this murder that much more shocking.

Now, Enoch City Manager Rob Dotson said the community was devastated.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB DOTSON, ENOCH CITY, UTAH, CITY MANAGER: It's hard to describe in words, emotions that are going through the people who live here. We all know this family. Many of us have served with them in church and community and gone to school with these individuals. And so this community, at this time, is hurting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: Now he went on to say that a welfare check is usually done when a neighbor raises concerns or perhaps someone hasn't been seen for an unusual period of time. But officials did not release any details about who requested this check or when.

The city manager also said that authorities don't have any info about a motive and that it would likely take a few days or longer before they could reach any conclusions about what had taken place inside that home.

I can also tell you that the Iron County School District in Cedar City, Utah, posted a statement confirming that all five children were, sadly, students there. They've hired councilors to help families deal with the tragedy. And the Utah governor, Spencer Cox, tweeted on Wednesday saying, our hearts go out to all those affected by this senseless violence.

Guys.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Lord, a family of eight.

Lucy Kafanov, thanks so much.

HILL: Still ahead this hour, Bills player Damar Hamlin showing signs of improvement, but is still in critical condition. And now NFL players already having to think about possibly returning to the field this weekend. We're going to hear from one of those players, Hamlin's close friend, who also visited him in the hospital. That's next.

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[09:27:28]

HILL: This morning, Buffalo Bills' safety Damar Hamlin remains in critical condition. This, of course, after he collapsed on the field Monday night during that game against the Bengals. Team officials, though, say Hamlin is showing signs of improvement. Overnight, the NFL's chief medical officer said the league is investigating every possible cause for the incident.

SCIUTTO: Yes, signs of improvement, that is certainly good news. CNN correspondent Adrienne Broaddus, she's in Cincinnati. CNN sports

anchor, Coy Wire, former NFL player himself, is in Buffalo, New York.

Adrienne, to you first.

What specifically is the hospital saying this morning about his condition?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, good morning to you.

We still haven't received an official update from Damar Hamlin's doctors or any hospital reps. I did speak with a hospital rep right here on the sidewalk yesterday only for that representative to tell me they would not be speaking to the media at this time likely due to privacy concerns.

We do know, however, that Damar Hamlin is still in the intensive care unit in critical condition. At his bedside, his mother and his father. Also stopping by, his high school teammate and close friend, Rodney Thomas II. Thomas, like so many others, holds on to hope.

Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODNEY THOMAS II, FRIEND AND HIGH SCHOOL TEAMMATE OF DAMAR HAMLIN: Just keep putting, like -- like prayers, thought, any - like whatever you - like whatever you do, just keep putting all the energy like towards him, towards his mom, towards his dad, his family. Just - because they're -- they're the ones that need it right now.

When he walks out of there and he sees like the support that he's had and the impact that he's had, it's going to be - it's going to be a real special day. And he's going to be able to continue and just, even further, just be able to influence and just impact - impact this place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And that special day is what so many fans are waiting for. And this community, close and beyond, has really wrapped their arms around Damar's parents. The family spokesperson, Jordon Rooney, telling me they've had to turn down meals because so many people have stepped in to help.

Meanwhile, when I spoke with his uncle earlier in the week, the last thing he told us is that the next step, at least from his perspective, is that doctors wanted to get Damar breathing again. And that is the news everyone is waiting to hear. We don't know where doctors are in that step regarding that process, but once we learn more, we will share with you.

[09:30:00]

Jim.

HILL: Adrienne, appreciate it.

Coy, I know you've also been speaking to folks in the league. You've been talking to players and coaches.