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CNN INTERNATIONAL: Tipsters Helping Investigators With Government Attacks Probe; Brazilian President: Brasilia Police Neglected Attack Threat; "Heavy Fighting" As Russia Renews Attempt To Take Town Of Soledar; Classified Docs, Found In Office Used By Biden After He Was VP; Attorney Say The Docs Were Given To National Archives The Next Day; North American Leaders Meet For 2nd Day In Mexico City; Israel's Ben-Gvir Orders Police To Take Down Palestinian Flags; How Did The U.K.'s First Space Launch Fail?; War Game Simulation: Invasion By China Would Fail. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And part of it is just figuring out what people want. And look, I mean Abercrombie certainly had a problematic past, sort of troublesome past, but they've been able to figure out what people want and they're more inclusive.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Anything else you're going to share about Abercrombie?

SOLOMON: Not right now, Don.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know --

SOLOMON: You have me on the spot, Don.

HARLOW: The documentary on, it's like so fascinating --

LEMON: It is.

SOLOMON: It is.

HARLOW: -- on Abercrombie. OK.

LEMON: So it's so obnoxious. She's mad at me.

SOLOMON: No, Don. You put me on the spot here.

HARLOW: Talking about it and let's find out in the break. Rahel and Nathaniel, thank you.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo in from Max Foster in London. And just ahead, resilience take to the streets protesting the storming of Congress by rioters over the weekend. We're live in Sao Paulo.

Fierce fighting in eastern Ukraine intensifies as President Volodymyr Zelenskyy urges his soldiers to hold on. And first ever space launch from U.K. soil (ph) fails. A close look at what went wrong.

13,000, that's how many e-mail messages Brazil's government says have poured in offering tips over Sunday's attack on all three branches of the nation's government.

About 1,500 people were arrested of the Sunday shocking right-wing assault on key government buildings in the capital Brasilia. Brazil's leftist President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, and others are lobbying accusations its security forces suggesting police may have been complicit.

CNN Correspondent Shasta Darlington is in Sao Paulo where a pro- democracy demonstration was held on Monday night. Shasta, what more are you hearing about the opposition to what unfolded on the weekend and also the government's attempts to find out more about how this was organized.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bianca. Well, there's a lot of outrage, a lot of anger, a lot of frustration. Brazilians who voted for Lula are demanding that people be held accountable. And as you mentioned, right here on Avenue, the Paulista in Sao Paulo, this is just one of the many locations across the country that thousands of Brazilians took to the street, not only to show their support for Lula, but to denounce those attacks on Brasilia and really support democracy.

You have to remember, it's relatively new here in Brazil, which came out of a military dictatorship in 1985. So for the people who were here last night seeing those attacks on these still young democratic institutions, has been frustrating, saddening, and worrisome. Lula himself spoke at a separate event last night, where he warned that democracy is difficult. We have to work together to make it function.

And he also criticized the police and the intelligence in Brasilia where he said they did clearly not enough to prevent these attacks, which were widely publicized ahead of time, but also appeared complicit as thousands of people marched on the Capitol. We all know what happened next, they stormed the buildings, they stormed the Congress, the Supreme Court, to the Presidential Palace where they smashed windows, flooded the floors, destroyed property.

All of these because those people who support the former President Jair Bolsonaro say that elections last October were rigged. They say, without providing any evidence whatsoever, that Jair Bolsonaro won. Now, the former president has done little to rein in these conspiracy theories. In fact, he's encouraged them.

And instead of participating in the traditional change of power, where one president hands over the sash to the other, he left the country. And, in fact, yesterday he posted pictures from Florida on social media, where he says he was in the hospital to have his abdomen checked out. He's had to do this on several occasions after a stabbing event in 2018 during a campaign.

So very much missing in action, while of course, the new authorities here are cracking down on the protesters. They've broken up camps that were set up after elections in front of military barracks to request and demand a military intervention.

And now the hard work really starts for Lula who will not only have to set up his new government, but really deal with just this very divided country where unfortunately these conspiracy theories have taken root, reflecting so much of what we saw in the United States two years ago on January 6. Bianca?

NOBILO: Shasta Darlington, thank you.

Turning now to the war on Ukraine and the intense battle underway for a strategic town in the eastern Donbas region. Heavy fighting is taking place in and around Soledar just north of the embattled city of Bakhmut.

[08:05:10]

Volodymyr Zelenskyy, admits that the mining town of Soledar is completely destroyed, but he vows Ukraine will ultimately prevail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): The battle for the Donbas continues. And although the occupiers have now concentrated their greatest efforts on Soledar, the result of this difficult and prolonged battle will be the liberation of our entire Donbas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Capturing Soledar would mark an important victory for Russian forces as they fight for control of Bakhmut which has become the epicenter of fierce frontline fighting. CNN's Scott McLean joins me now from Kyiv. Scott, we've spoken over many months about the strategic significance of Bakhmut, the operational value, the fact that it could open up opportunities for Russia to secure Kramatorsk, Slovyansk. What is the status of the battle there at the moment?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So Bianca, you're absolutely right. The Russians have tried extremely hard to capture Bakhmut. The trouble is that the Ukrainians, obviously, realize the value of it and they have it extremely well-fortified, and so the Russians haven't had so much luck there.

And so, it seems like they're going for the next best prize on the battlefield, which may be this town of Soledar. And if you believe the head of the Donetsk People's Republic, well, Soledar is almost now captured by the Russians though they have offered no evidence to support that, though, the Ukrainians are not exactly gloating about their success there either.

President Zelenskyy last night conceded that the fighting was extremely difficult that in his words, he said, there are almost no undamaged walls left. He also said there was almost no life left and that the town is covered in corpses and scars from the blows.

We also heard yesterday from the Deputy Defense Minister, Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister who said that the Russians after previously failing to launch a successful assault on Soledar, have regrouped added a ton of troops and equipment weaponry to the frontlines and now they are launching a new powerful assault that involves a heck of a lot of artillery and multiple launch rocket systems.

She also says that it's not just regular Russian troops fighting there, it is also Wagner mercenaries who have really concentrated much of their efforts on taking that town. The head of that group gave a nod to the Ukrainians who he said were defending with honor thus far. He also said over the weekend, why it is so important for the Russians to try to capture Soledar.

Part of the value here for them is that this town contains a mineshaft which leads to a vast underground network of salt mines which make ideal places for hiding troops, hiding equipment as well. The other strategic value of Soledar, Bianca, is that if the Russians were to be able to take it, remember, it's only 10, 15 kilometers away from Bakhmut, that would allow them to try to approach attacking Bakhmut from a different angle from the north because, so far, their efforts from the east have not resulted in any success just yet.

NOBILO: Scott McLean live for us in Kyiv, thank you so much.

U.S. President Joe Biden is facing scrutiny over classified documents found in a private office that he once used. A source tells CNN fewer than a dozen classified documents were found when the President's lawyers were closing up the D.C. office in November. They were reportedly handed over to the National Archives the next day.

Mr. Biden's lawyers point out that the President immediately cooperated, unlike former President Donald Trump, who's being investigated over classified records found at his Florida home.

Let's get some perspective on the situation with our Senior Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid. Paula, tell us a bit more about what's going on. And also, the differences here because presumably Biden, his lawyers and his team have pains to try and underscore the differences between this situation and the one that former President Donald Trump was involved in at Florida.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: In order to fully understand what's going on here, let's go back a few years. Between 2017 and 2019, between the time Biden was vice president and before he became president, he was an honorary professor at the University of Pennsylvania.

He had an office here in D.C. as part of that position. Now just a few months ago, while President, his team went to that office to clean it out. And during that process, they say they uncovered fewer than a dozen classified documents. And according to the Biden team, they immediately notified the National Archives and the Archives took possession of these documents the next day.

The Justice Department was also notified and now there is a U.S. attorney who is reviewing this matter and doing a damage assessment. What's interesting about this particular U.S. attorney is that he is someone who was appointed by Trump but stayed on in this administration. That does happen.

[08:10:02]

There's only two U.S. attorneys who served under Trump and Biden. The other one works in Delaware and he is overseeing an investigation into President Biden's son, Hunter Biden. As of right now, the President's team says they are fully cooperating with the Archives. They're fully cooperating with the Justice Department.

But as reporters, we do have a lot of questions. How did these documents get here? What were these documents? And are we sure that these are the only documents? But based on what the Biden team has told us so far, this does appear to be a more simple, straightforward matter, as opposed to the Trump investigation going on in Mar-a-Lago.

First of all, you have the amount of material that we're talking about. Less than a dozen documents, fewer than a dozen, versus hundreds of documents, the level of cooperation. And Biden team says they're cooperating fully, where the former president, he refused to cooperate until there were really subpoenas that had been obtained.

So a lot of differences here. But I will caution that the Biden matter, we're only just discovering it now. We will continue to report because one thing we've learned from the Clinton e-mail investigation, the Trump investigation is that these classified document investigations, they can become very complicated and fraught and ultimately become political liabilities if they are indeed not so simple.

NOBILO: And we have you to steer us through it. Paula Reid in Washington, thank you so much for bringing us that history and context.

News broke on the document's stories. Mr. Biden attends the North American Leaders Summit in Mexico City. He met with Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador on Monday, and will meet with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau later on today. The leaders will discuss trade and security and climate change, but migration tops their agenda.

President Biden plans to roll out additional measures later to keep migrants from traveling to the U.S. southern border. White House Reporter Priscilla Alvarez joins us now from Mexico City with the details. Priscilla, what outcomes are we expecting from this meeting?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, to your point, migration is going to be an important issue because there has been unprecedented mass movement in the western hemisphere. And the Biden administration has repeatedly said that they expect that regional partners need to share the responsibility of managing migration.

And they're going to roll out measures that are in line with that. For example, they plan to announce a virtual portal for migrants to apply for legal pathways not only to the United States, but also to Canada and Mexico. They also will be announcing a new center in southern Mexico, that Estacion Tapachula (ph) is a transit location where migrants can also receive information about applying to come to the U.S. or other countries.

Now all of this is intended to make going to -- or illegally migrating more accessible for migrants and that's going to be a key issue today when these three leaders meet. It is a significant moment. Again, the U.S. President has not been in Mexico since 2014. So it is an important summit that comes at a critical time as all three nations try to tackle migration in addition to some of the issues you mentioned, like economic development, climate change and security. Bianca?

NOBILO: Priscilla Alvarez in Mexico City, thank you.

Just days after Israel's new National Security Minister Itamar Ben- Gvir made a provocative visit to Jerusalem holy site, enters the Temple Mount to Jews and the noble sanctuary to Muslims, the hard- right politician has ordered police to remove any Palestinian flag flown in public. He's arguing that displaying it shows, quote, identification with terrorism.

Experts say the move isn't likely to stand up to legal scrutiny. And this comes after a man just released from prison for murdering and Israeli raised the flag in northern Israel. As it stands, it is legal to display the flag but Israel's police have the power to take any flags down in certain situations.

And today, Prince Harry's much anticipated memoir "Spare" goes on sale worldwide. In London, some people lined up at bookstores to be among the first to get their hands on a physical copy. In the tell-all, Harry makes explosive allegations against his family and describes what led to his decision to step down from royal duties.

Readers in Singapore and elsewhere are eager to hear more about the royal family's bitter feud. Currently, the memoir is ranked as a best seller on Amazon in several countries.

Still to come, what would have been a giant leap for the U.K. turns out to be a disappointment. What caused the country's first base launch to fail? Coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:45]

NOBILO: The question today is how did the U.K.'s first base launch fail? It all started with such excitement for Virgin Orbit's historic mission. Let's take a little look here on the big wall. So this takeoff that you're seeing here is the satellite which was housed in a converted jumbo jet named Cosmic Girl and it carries one launcher with one rocket.

And we're going to take a look at what a successful test looks like because they did have them. You can see the launcher dropping down here underneath the jumbo jets. And that's what a success looks like. But on this mission, it fell short.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRISTOPHER RELF, DIR. OF SYSTEMS ENGINEERING AND VERIFICATION, VIRGIN ORBIT: It appears that LauncherOne has suffered anomaly which will prevent us from making orbit for this mission. We are looking at the information and data that we have gotten.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: To help us better understand exactly what did go wrong, let's bring in CNN's Tom Foreman who followed the launch attempt from Washington, D.C. Tom, talk us through the variables that can mean you have a successful test. But then when it actually comes down to it, there's a failure. And also, what specifically happened here?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the simple sentence that answers all that is space is hard. This is a difficult thing. Anytime you launch a space rocket, we get so used to watching them. We think it's not that hard anymore. But there's a reason people say it's rocket science because essentially what's happening is you have an -- a craft that is changing so rapidly, pressure, weight, speed, atmosphere, friction, temperature, all of that, that it effectively is becoming a new craft every few seconds.

In this case, what happened, they took off with Cosmic Girl, the big plane there. They dropped the rocket as they have successfully five times before. They've had six flights before this one, five of which were successful. Four seconds after it takes off, the rocket ignites and it blasts off up into space.

Why did they do it this way? Because it gets them through all that lower atmosphere where you spend a lot of energy trying to get rockets up, and it allows you to launch in different directions. What happened here? The first stage ignited, it made it to space, the second stage ignited on this rocket.

And then sometime in there, we had the impression that the second stage had shut down, and it was coasting to its reignition. Now, a statement out from Virgin suggests that this anomaly occurred during that first burn of the second stage. They said they were already in space at that point. So what exactly went wrong? Well, we don't know. They probably don't know yet.

They have to go through a lot of data sorted out. But the indication would be that somehow, they lost the rocket at that point, whether it blew up, or they lost control of it, and in some fashion, self- destructed, we don't know. But we know that at that point, that's when they say they had this anomaly and it's something went wrong.

NOBILO: I love that description you gave with the fact that the rocket is essentially becoming a new one. Every couple of seconds in that really critical launch period. You have a family connection to this project, didn't you?

FOREMAN: Yes. I will -- actually that's where that description came from, from my daughter Ronnie, who worked for Virgin Orbit for a number of years on this very project and she talked about the complexity -- I shouldn't give away trade secrets or anything, but just the complexity of rocket launchers. She now works for a different aerospace country company.

[08:20:09]

This is still a very difficult world. Again, we watch it all the time. We think it's not hard. But what's going on here is very, very difficult. This is also a big challenge for Virgin. I cannot tell you enough, Bianca, how much this affects people in a space company when this happens.

Literally years of their life, millions of dollars. Same for the people who put the satellites on board gone just like that. Huge setback and very hard to get over.

NOBILO: Tom Foreman, thank you so much for joining us and hopefully we'll have you here with update soon on how they're going to progress with this project. Thank you so much.

FOREMAN: I hope so.

NOBILO: Now, coming up, if China invaded Taiwan, the cost would be very high. That's according to a U.S. think tank which just released the results of a war game simulation. Details on that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: Some rare good news for the Earth's climate. The U.N. says that action to save the ozone layer has been successful and is on track for a complete recovery within decades. This is great news, all because of a landmark agreement 35 years ago that phased out the use of ozone harming chemicals around the world. So according to this new assessment, if current policies stay in place, most of the planet could see the ozone layer restored to 90 and 80 levels within a few years.

In recent years, China has increased its hostile rhetoric toward Taiwan, a self-governing island, that Beijing considers to be part of its territory. If the confrontation were to take place, it would be a bloody battle, according to a new war game simulation, with heavy losses on all sides.

CNN's Oren Liebermann reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Taiwan is perhaps the most sensitive flashpoint between the U.S. and China. Some experts warning that Beijing's use of force to claim what it sees as its rightful territory is drawing closer. Chairman Xi Jinping has made it a priority for Beijing, which hasn't ruled out the use of force, a decision that could cause thousands of lives for China, Taiwan, and America.

A war game from the Center for Strategic and International Studies begins with a Chinese missile barrage against Taiwan's military in 2026, destroying much of its air force and navy, followed by an amphibious invasion across the Taiwan Strait. Taiwanese forces fight back using advanced U.S. weaponry, Patriot missiles for air defense, anti-ship missiles and torpedoes for sea defense, and its ground forces to defend the beaches.

MARK CANCIAN, CSIS WAR GAME REPORT CO-AUTHOR: Whatever the Taiwanese are going to fight the war with, they have to have that when the war begins.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): In every scenario, China landed forces on Taiwan. But only in the most pessimistic cases does Beijing avoid defeat. But victory for the U.S. and Taiwan comes at a great cost.

The war game assesses that the U.S. loses 10 to 20 combat ships, including two aircraft carriers and 200 to 400 military aircraft. In three weeks of fighting, the U.S. suffers more than 3,000 troops killed in action. That's about half of what the U.S. suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan over two decades. America's global position is damaged for years.

China loses 90 percent of its amphibious fleet and 52 major surface warships and its air force loses more than 160 combat aircraft.

[08:25:07]

Crucial to this outcome is the stockpile of precision-guided munitions. Taiwan would need more U.S.-supplied Harpoon anti-ship missiles, which maybe in short supply because these missiles have been sent to Ukraine. The U.S. needs its own long-range anti-ship missiles and this supply is one of the big risks.

CANCIAN: It runs out within typically the first couple of days. And when that runs out, then the United States has to use shorter range munitions. Those can be effective but it increases losses and increases risk.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): China has the world's largest navy with about 340 ships and submarines compared to nearly 300 for the U.S. China's army has 1 million active-duty service members and it is the third largest air force in the world. Top U.S. generals say the key to avoiding conflict is deterrence.

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: As long as we remain number one, then we will deter the war that people worry about, a great power war between China and the United States.

LIEBERMANN (on camera): Crucially, this war game doesn't ask the question of, what would happen to make China decide to use military force to invade Taiwan? That remains an open question.

But it is a crucial one to understanding the situation, especially given the west's reaction to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, sanctions that have crippled Russia's economy. Would China run the same risks given its own imports and exports, given its industrial economic power, or would it use those powers to try to control Taiwan without using its military? And that is a critical question.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, at the Pentagon. (END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Thanks for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo in London. And World Sports with Amanda Davies is coming up next.

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