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FAA Lifts Ground Stop, Says Normal Operations Resuming; Heavy Rain, Massive Flooding, Mudslide Batter California; Biden Says, Not Surprised Classified Documents Found in My Private Office. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired January 11, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Wednesday morning here. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Breaking news this morning, perhaps some relief, the first flights taking off moments ago from Reagan National Airport here in D.C., this after the FAA lifted its earlier ground stop, now restarting all U.S. takeoffs, but the logistical nightmare continues as airports across the country try to get their flights back on schedule after all these delays and cancelations. They're still mounting. It all started early morning after a key FAA system went down, halting all U.S. flight departures.

HILL: And that chain reaction, of course, spreading not just here in the U.S. but around the world. In London, passengers said they were stuck on the tarmac for hours waiting to be taken off. President Biden has been briefed and noted a short time ago the FAA is still working to determine just what caused the outage. Take a listen.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I just spoke with Buttigieg. They don't know what cause is. But I was on the phone with him in the last ten minutes. I told them to report directly to me when they find out. They expect in a couple of hours they'll have a good sense of what caused it and will respond at that time.

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HILL: And, of course, CNN covering this like no one else can. We have our Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean at Reagan National Airport, CNN National Correspondent Athena Jones is at Newark International Airport and CNN Anchor and Correspondent Amara Walker there in Atlanta.

Pete, I want to begin with you. As Jim noted, first flights just taking off from Reagan. This is a very good sign.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: A very good sign, Erica. Things were at a standstill here at Reagan National Airport up until the top of 9:00 A.M. That's when the FAA alleviated this nationwide ground stop that it had in place for a couple hours. They actually ended it a little bit early.

The issue was the notice to air missions system, formerly called the notices to air men, the NOTAM system. That's the bulletin board that pilots essentially need to read before they go fly. It gives critical information on whether or not runways are open, whether or not radio navigational aids that pilots need to land, really, really important. The FAA regulation cites bible and verse that pilots must read this before every flight. Without that system, they could simply not take off. So, the FAA put this nationwide ground stop into place.

Now, it is over but we are still seeing the ripple effect. Ground delay programs have been put in place by the airlines, at the request of airlines, through the FAA. Right now, there's one at Charlotte, which is the second biggest hub for American Airlines, delays there averaging about 43 minutes.

Also, Delta has a ground stop into place at La Guardia, one of its big hubs. United Airlines says it has put a travel waiver into place nationwide, offering passengers change fees that are waived, even refunds, if they were impacted by this FAA system outage today.

The delays and cancelations continue to pile up. Just check FlightAware, where it's just shy of 5,000 delays nationwide today, about 800 cancelations. Cancelation number pretty low so far, although we will see this go up.

The big questions, what caused this in the first place? That is the question that Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, who says there will be an after-action review. Key members on Capitol Hill in both House and Senate committee that oversee the airlines and the FAA, they want a review of this. Also trade associations who deal with travel are saying there just simply needs to be more investment in the behind the scenes infrastructure that the FAA uses to use this system.

Clearly, we have seen this. It is so unprecedented, I can't think of a time.

[10:05:01]

I've been flying little airplanes in my entire life. I've been a pilot since 2007. I've been flying airplanes since I was a teenager. I'm a flight instructor. I have never seen a nationwide ground stop other than 9/11, Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Yes. A lot of the systems are really, really darn old.

All right, Athena, you're there at Newark, one of the busiest airports as well, but also one of the first to get back up and running today. And I wonder, are they able to get through all these delays right now?

ATHENA JONES, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jim, you're right, Newark Airport and also Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson, were the first two to come back online now. The ground stop has been lifted nationally, at least from the one from the FAA and usual airlines are grappling with what is going to be now a huge ripple effect of delays.

I just went to the board a few minutes ago and there're still quite a few delays. And you can imagine that there would be. There were flights that were scheduled to take off at 5:00 A.M., 7:00 A.M., several of those were delayed until 9:50, so just a few minutes ago. We'll be checking to see if they all depart at 9:50, but just a lot of sort of crowded air travel here.

And you heard Pete mention United, one of the airlines that are giving passengers a chance to have waivers or refunds. We also know that -- he also mentioned this idea that we, and we heard this from Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and others, that they need to get to the bottom of this.

Senator Maria Cantwell of Washington, she is the chair of the Senate committee on commerce and transportation, and she's yet another person vowing to look into what caused these delays. She said in a statement, the public needs a resilient air transportation system.

And they have to look into how redundancy plays a role. So, should there be a backup, maybe even a backup to the backup for the system, the NOTAMS system, the critical system that failed today. That is something that everyone is going to be looking into.

But as I mentioned, things are a little bit calmer here now. People are still walking up to check in. We're still talking to folks, many of them going to Miami or Fort Lauderdale, or internationally. They say that they expect to have a fine day. Miami still was not delayed, a couple other flights are still facing delays. Jim?

HILL: So, that's what we see there at Newark.

And, Amara, what about there in Atlanta, the world's busiest airport, as we often hear?

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes, right, it is the world's busiest airport when it comes to passenger volume. But if you look here behind me, it doesn't look so busy, right? That's because it is a slower travel day. Typically, it is a Wednesday. But, look, it goes without saying, a lot of people were still inconvenienced as a result of this FAA ground stoppage and this computer glitch.

We spoke with several travelers who were dealing with a lot of delays, in fact, on the departure board, there were so many delays on there, about two to three hours. There were just a few cancelations for those early morning flights. And we did see a handful of departures starting at 8:30 this morning. So, yes, Atlanta was one of those first airports to get the planes back in the air.

I spoke with one woman a few minutes ago, who is a Southwest passenger, she's trying to get back -- she said she was in an Uber on her way to the airport when she got the notice that her flight had been delayed. And, initially, she was quite worried. She thought that she might be going through the holiday nightmare that she saw playing out on T.V. with Southwest Airlines passengers. So, she is, in fact, is just relieved that that is not the case. Listen to what she had to say.

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THERESA CORNEJO, TRAVELING TO DENVER: My original flight time was 11:45 headed to Denver. On the way here in the Uber, I got the notice that we were 2.5 hours delayed. So, at that point, what are we going to do? I can't turn back. So, we're here just to wait it out.

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WALKER: So, look, here at Atlanta International Airport, it's pretty calm, things are moving along. Flights have resumed, of course. We don't know how long it will take for all the airlines to get the passengers on these planes and move through this backlog hopefully by the end of the day. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: I was just thinking, if you had been caught up in the holiday mess with Southwest and then got caught in this again, you might think that it's like Charlie Brown with a rain cloud over your head.

Amara Walker, Pete Muntean, thanks so much to both of you.

All right, joining us is CNN Aviation Analyst Miles O'Brien on the phone. Miles, good to have you on. I wonder -- we don't know yet, but what kind of things might bring a national and highly crucial system like this one down? What are the possibilities?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST (voice over): Well, I mean, we could go down the path of some sort of nefarious intent, some sort of cyberattack, but it could be something as simple as a single-point failure. And that's the thing that's a bit troubling.

Aviation is safe because it is redundant, it has resilience built into it. There's backups for backups, and that's why it's such a safe enterprise. And, ironically, this NOTAM system, notice to air missions, formerly notice to air men, that system is part of that layer of redundancy. In other words, you have the published safety rules, you have your flight plan.

[10:10:03]

And before you take off, you have these NOTAMS, which are the things that have been added on later. This is the real-time information about airport closures, about navigation systems which are down.

So, it is part of the redundant system, but perhaps doesn't have enough redundancy itself. And this is something we need to look at it with the persistent underfunding of FAA technology and investment and the air travel control level. It's a bit of a house of cards and it's quite a commendable thing that air traffic control pulls off what it does on a daily basis in spite of technological problems. And this is just one area which currently the FAA needs to focus on and add that layer of redundancy.

HILL: I feel like that's what we're hearing this morning. There needs to be more investments in the infrastructure for the FAA.

Athena had just noted with us Senator Cantwell talking about -- to your point, Miles, talking about the need for more redundancy with this program in particular. And Jim and I were talking earlier with David Soucie about how so many of these systems are so old, and yet thousands and thousands of flights depend on them every single day. Why is it so tough to bring it up to speed?

O'BRIEN (voice over): It's just amazing that the system works as well as it does. I often marvel at it for its lack of technological advancement over the years. It's been very difficult to get, frankly, out of the era of tubes, for that matter. We're past that now. But basically the FAA system, the architecture has its origins, post-war, '50s, radar systems, and it's been slow to move into the era of satellites and computers.

And as it moves in that direction, there's inherent safety that goes along with it, but you have got to go all-in and you've got to go in with a layer of redundancy to make sure when something like this fails, it doesn't shut down the system. I mean, the good news is this is not a safety issue. This is an inconvenience issue, but it does underscore the fact there are technological gaps in the system which need to be addressed.

SCIUTTO: So, to fix those gaps, Miles, is the obstacle money? Does it cost a bunch of money?

O'BRIEN (voice over): Yes.

SCIUTTO: Is it disruption? What is it?

O'BRIEN (voice over): Always follow the money, Jim. As you know, as any reporter, right? And, frankly, there's a direct line between expenditure of money and safety. And that goes with the airlines themselves and the FAA as well. If you want a system that's going to operate at the level of safety that we expect out of our air traffic control system, you have to keep investing in it. And when problems like this come up, they should not be ignored, they shouldn't be swept under the rug and put together with bailing wire and duct tape.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: If only. Miles, always great to have you, I appreciate the insight.

O'BRIEN (voice over): Always a pleasure.

HILL: Still to come here, parts of California bracing for more rain. And this, of course, is adding to these already inundated areas. The pictures are just -- I mean, they really defy descriptions in some cases. We're going to take you live to Santa Cruz for the very latest.

SCIUTTO: Yes, from drought conditions to flood conditions.

We'll continue to monitor the delays as flights resume following that major FAA system outage. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Right now, many across California are battling the devastating effects of massive flooding and landslides, and in parts of the state, even more rain is expected throughout today.

HILL: It does not feel like there is any break in sight. The severe weather also responsible for the deaths of at least 17 people across the state.

CNN National Correspondent Camila Bernal is in Central California for us this morning. A lot of people wondering when this is going to let up, there's more on the way.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's more on the way. Officials are saying, look, we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the reality is we could have ten more days of rain in the state of California. So, that has a lot of people still worried.

There are many evacuation orders that have been lifted, at least here in Santa Cruz County, but when people come back, many are coming back to this, a flooded street. And, look, the neighbors here have told me sometimes it does flood here, but the water recedes very quickly.

This time around, what you're seeing is a lot of standing water for a long period of time. This is the worst that many of these neighbors have seen. That's what they're telling me. And they say the difficult part of it is having storm after storm after storm, and, again, the water not receding, so you're dealing with this on your commute to work, if you're going to go to work.

There are some areas where the water is getting a little bit better, but you are still having to push that water out of your home. So, you're either deal with the water or you're dealing with mud and debris. We were in another neighborhood yesterday where they are literally just shoveling all that mud out of their homes. It is extremely difficult for those neighbors.

So, I talked to the county and they told me that what they're doing is putting up these papers, these yellow papers on homes that have significant damage. So, we know that this is one of them, that a home that got flooded. And so once you have that, you may be able to apply for federal aid.

It is, of course, difficult and the county is doing that, as we speak. They say they have already gotten about 500 assessments done so far. And they believe that out of those, about 130 have significant damage, those yellow papers, at least five are just incredible damage to the point that they don't think there's any turning back, there is no solution for those homes.

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So, that's what you're going to see over the next couple of days as the city and the county assess the damage in all of this. Jim, Erica?

HILL: Wow. I mean, what an undertaking too. Camila, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now to discuss, Captain Brian McGrath of the Ventura County Fire Department. Captain McGrath, good to have you with us this morning. Can you just update us? We have been looking at these pictures from across the state obviously, that you're there in Ventura County in the south. What is the situation this morning?

CAPT. BRIAN MCGRATH, VENTURA COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: Good morning. Thank you for having. Right now, as the sun is coming up, it is another beautiful day out here. It is nice that things are starting to dry out. The levels in the rivers and creeks are lessening and work crews are really able to get these roads open back up so we can get to all those areas that are hard to get to right now.

SCIUTTO: Are there still people in danger, in your view?

MCGRATH: No, not immediate danger. There's, of course, dangers because, you know, the rivers and creeks, they washed out a lot of roads and a lot of access areas, as well as the ground is saturated. So, we're not sure if there will still be a little bit of movement in the earth. So, it's just a matter of people have to be diligent and being aware of their surroundings.

HILL: This is also a massive undertaking for you guys, right, to assess all those roads or areas that may still be somewhat vulnerable and to begin the cleanup. I mean, how do you start that process? Do you have everything and everyone that you need?

MCGRATH: Well, of course, we can always use more. However, this is not unfamiliar territory for us. We have great partners working with our local law enforcement and our OES agencies being able to survey the damage and work together as a team to be able to tackle it starting at one area and just moving on to the next.

SCIUTTO: We've been showing some images of some of the rescues you were able to carry out, you and your teams were able to carry out. Can you describe some of the most difficult ones?

MCGRATH: Well, getting to some of these were very difficulty. And, unfortunately, some weren't able to be made that night. Using the different strategies and tactics, putting a ladder down in a moving river, using the boats, it's been very trying. And the crews have been absolutely amazing and using their training and being safe.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. Well, listen, we wish you the best of luck and we know there's more bad weather headed your way. So, we hope you get all you need to do what you got to do then. Captain Brian McGrath, thanks so much.

MCGRATH: Well, take care, I appreciate it. And remember, everybody, be safe, stay dry, and if you see moving or standing water, just turn around, don't drown. SCIUTTO: Yes. That's such important advice we get so often in these stories. We see that where folks think they could drive through and they end up in change. Well, thanks so much, we'll stay on top of that story.

Another story we're following here in Washington, House Republicans newly in power, putting the pressure now on the Biden family. What the new chairman of the House Oversight Committee wants from the treasury department.

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[10:25:00]

HILL: President Biden insisting he did not know classified government documents from his time as vice president were taken to a private office during and also says he didn't ask what the content was of those documents when he learned about them. CNN, however, has learned U.S. intelligence memos and briefing materials were among the ten or so documents that were found.

SCIUTTO: CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez has the reporting. So, topic areas, countries, Iran, Ukraine, do we know of any others and do we know what specifically with regard to those countries were involved here?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, I mean, Jim and Erica, this would have been briefing memos, this would have been things that would have been prepared for the then-vice president, as he was perhaps doing calls with foreign leaders or discussing those countries, which include Iran, Ukraine and the United Kingdom.

And so that's what we understand these documents to be from the period of 2013-2016, during the time, of course, that he was vice president, and he would have had access to these things. We know that Joe Biden as vice president was obviously very much into getting his daily briefings. So, this would seem to align with that.

The question here remains, you know, how did those ten documents end up there? That's something that the FBI and the Justice Department have been looking into. John Lausch, the U.S. attorney in Chicago, has briefed the department, the top leaders, including Merrick Garland, the attorney general, on the basic findings that they have so far.

The question is, what happens next? And I think certainly for the Justice Department and for the politicians up on Capitol Hill, you know, that's a very big question because they believe that Donald Trump -- certainly Republicans do believe Donald Trump was treated unfairly in the way that the Justice Department handled the classified documents that were found at Mar-a-Lago. Big differences between the two cases, but you understand where they're going.

Here is Kevin McCarthy, the speaker, talking a little bit about that, about how these things were handle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The hypocrisy. Think about this. They have gotten away with so much for so long. This was discovered before the last election. They think the law doesn't apply to them. They think they write their own.

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And that's what infuriates the American public. America believes in fairness and honesty, and that's not what we're getting from them.

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