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CNN Obtains Never-Before-Seen Interview With Uvalde School Police Chief; Biden Pours Cold Water On Possible Gas Stove Ban; Doctors Removing Lesion Above First Lady's Eye; Ukrainian Soldier On Soledar Fight: "We're Hanging In There"; Ukrainians To Start Patriot Missile Training In U.S. Soon. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 11, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE MCCRAW, TEXAS DPS CHIEF: It is his school. He is the Chief of Police. Okay?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Arredondo, who presided over a six-person police force before he was terminated in August, declined to comment for this story.

Through his lawyer, he has previously denied that he was ever in charge and said he never issued any orders.

A CNN analysis of never before made public body camera footage and newly obtained phone calls reveal Arredondo repeatedly directed the officers around him not to enter the room with the gunman.

This is at 11:40 AM just seven minutes after the shooting began.

PEDRO "PETE" ARREDONDO, FORMER UVALDE SCHOOL POLICE CHIEF: Hey, this is Arredondo. This is an emergency right now. I'm inside the building. I've been inside the building with this man. He has an AR-15. He shot a whole bunch of times.

He is in one room. I need a lot of firepower. So I need this building surrounded, surrounded with as many AR-15s as possible.

PROKUPECZ: As more officers with body cameras responded to the scene, we can hear Arredondo start to talk to the shooter.

ARREDONDO: Sir, this is Arredondo with the School District Police, can you please put your firearm down. We don't want anyone else hurt, sir.

PROKUPECZ Arredondo can be seen trying to open the door to an adjacent classroom while giving commands to other officers.

ARREDONDO: We're going to clear up before we -- before we do any breaching. We're going to clear these kids out.

As soon as they clear this room, I'm going to verify what's been vacated, guys before we do any kind of breaching. Time is on our side, right. Now. I know we probably have kids in there, but we've got to save the lives of the other ones.

PROKUPECZ: Time was not on his side. And it reflects a mindset that goes directly against active shooter training. The policy emphasizes speed, for any officer to go immediately towards the sound of gunfire and stop the shooter.

Arredondo last completed the training in December 2021, five months before the Uvalde massacre.

RADIO: Child is advising she is in a room full of victims.

PROKUPECZ: At about 12:12 PM, a crucial transmission from the Uvalde dispatcher comes over the radios in the hallway, informing the officers that a child in the room with the gunman called 9-1-1 and says she is surrounded by victims.

The dispatch blares within earshot of Arredondo.

He doesn't seem to hear it because he is talking, repeating instructions for officers not to enter.

ARREDONDO: Hey, guys. Hold on. We are going to clear the building first, and then we'll tactical, but we're going to empty these out, these classrooms first.

CONSTABLE ZAMORA: All these are empty, Pete.

ARREDONDO: He is verifying right now.

PROKUPECZ: Officers actually turned down their radios so they can hear Arredondo give the order.

DPS TROOPER CHAD SKIDMORE: Guys, can you turn your radios down, please.

PROKUPECZ: It seems clear to the men on this side of the hallway, Arredondo is in charge.

ZAMORA: No entry until the chief of police gives you permission there.

PROKUPECZ: And when a nearby officer suggests that a Border Patrol agent looks like they are about to go in.

ZAMORA: Get ready for friendlies.

ARREDONDO: Tell them to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wait.

ZAMORA: Nobody enter.

PROKUPECZ: Arredondo said he assumed Border Patrol agents at the other end of the hallway will be the ones to make the breach since they had rifles and he and his men only had pistols.

ARREDONDO: I saw those were BP. I know those were probably BORTAC. Smart thing for us to do, obviously with a handgun is we are going to let these guys make entry on that -- it was the exact time. PROKUPECZ: But it wasn't just handguns. As body camera footage clearly shows, there were plenty of heavily armed officers on scene.

(SHOUTING)

PROKUPECZ: Some in the very first moments after the shooting began.

Arredondo for the first time also explaining why he thought the door was locked, admitting he never tried to open it.

ARREDONDO: I have it in -- a picture in my mind that I saw that. I saw the hammer in there. And usually when that's there, that's locked. Man, 90 percent of the time.

PROKUPECZ: We now know investigators believe it was unlocked and there was no need to wait for a key.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Get back!

PROKUPECZ: At the end of the interview, Arredondo says that rather than breaching the door, he even considered trying to shoot through the walls to kill the gunman.

ARREDONDO: That thought crossed my mind to start shooting through that wall, which is a bit stupid. But you start thinking there's already somebody deceased in there.

You want to start -- but you know obviously we don't ever train to shoot through walls. It's not something that -- it is probably not the smartest idea, but you know, you always question yourself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Shimon joins us now.

Shimon, here we are, nearly eight months later. Every single time we learn a new piece of information, it's just another gut punch.

What stood out to you in terms of what you heard from the chief there and the fact that he was in charge for most of the time and ordering commands.

PROKUPECZ: Right, especially in that one area. There were many areas where there were police officers on different sides. But closest to the door, closest to where the gunman was, he was the one calling the shots. That's very clear.

What struck me most is his demeanor throughout this interview. This is the next morning, not even 24 hours after the shooting. You know, he was making jokes at one point while they were interviewing him.

[13:35:07]

His demeanor, the way he was talking about what happened. This was such a huge tragedy and everyone realized very quickly there was some serious questions that needed to be asked, certainly I realize that, of the police.

But he sort of had an answer for everything. Yet, still to this day, he's defensive. He still feels he didn't do anything wrong and he was never in charge.

GOLODRYGA: No accountability.

PROKUPECZ: No accountability.

The other thing that I think throughout all of the eight months that we've been looking at this and getting all this information, what I have found seriously problematic for all the law enforcement that was there is that no one was communicating with each other.

You see him, he's in that hallway for all that time. No one goes in there. No other boss, no other law enforcement official, senior law enforcement official goes into that hallway to ask him what the hell is going on, what are you doing here?

At one point, they thought he was in the room being held hostage. So much of the information that was being put out that was wrong. But he was at the center of that. He wasn't communicating with anyone.

The one thing is a lot is made about whether there was a key needed for the door. Investigators I've talked to believe no key was needed. They seemed to need to get the team together and open the door.

A lot has been made about how radios weren't working. You can clearly hear in this video officers standing feet from that door where the kids were, they could hear the radio transmissions, that call that comes over that says a kid is calling from inside the room.

A lot of excuses. He's made a lot of excuses. Other law enforcement officials have made a lot of excuses.

But all this is out now. And we've spent eight months getting information, digging into this.

That's in terms of his interview, his nearly entire one-hour interview is on our Web site. We put it out there because we wanted people to see for themselves, to hear him, to see his explanation.

Part of it is because he hasn't really talked. He did a newspaper interview through his lawyer. He's dodged reporters. And he's at the center of this. So we felt it was necessary to put it all out there so people could see for themselves.

GOLODRYGA: Failure after failure after failure. I'll never forget the image of the heavily armed men standing there knowing there were children totally defenseless on the other side of that wall.

Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:41:58]

GOLODRYGA: The White House is pushing back on a report that the federal government is considering a ban on gas stoves.

A Consumer Product Safety Commissioner told "Bloomberg News" that gas stoves are a, quote, "hidden hazard," and the government is considering banning them. But now the White House is saying not so fast.

CNN chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir, joins us now.

Bill, this came as a big surprise to me. I, like millions of other Americans, have a gas stove. Don't ask me how often I use it. Maybe that's for good measure.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

WEIR: Just for the kids, to protect the kids.

GOLODRYGA: Protect their lungs.

As far as what this story is, how concerned should we be.

WEIR: More science comes to light that burning an open flame of methane in your house creates kind of the same exhaust that comes out of your car. There's nitrogen dioxide, carbon dioxide and particulate matter.

If you're not in a well-vented place, in a small apartment, especially with children with developing lungs and brains, that can affect cognition.

We have statistics, 35 percent of American homes have gas stoves. Childhood asthma contributed to gas stoves, 12 percent. So it's not a small number to worry about.

Cory Booker and other Senators wrote a letter to the president -- to the consumer protection folks and said, let's think about making mandatory hoods, vent hoods on gas stoves, cut-off valves so they don't leak. Maybe more warnings, more education about the hidden dangers of that kind of stove.

This is an emotional thing. A lot of people love cooking with gas.

GOLODRYGA: Maybe it's healthier.

WEIR: It's been sold to us from the gas companies literally since the '30s because they were competing with coal and wood back in the day, had to convince us.

Now electric has taken leaps. It's sort of like electric cars. The latest induction electric stoves are amazing. They heat up three times faster.

They don't get hot on the surface. They only heat what's inside the pan. And it's cool to the touch afterwards because they use magnets. But a lot of people can't afford that yet.

This is part of the conversation that, if we want to decarbonize the economy, we have to do everything. But you'll see states have already preemptively banned any gas bans.

There's about 20 of them, led by Texas, trying to stop the Californias and New Yorks of the world from stopping new construction that includes natural gas.

GOLODRYGA: It'll be a state-by-state rollout if we see them at all.

WEIR: Exactly.

GOLODRYGA: Any of these bans.

In the meantime, use your vents, if you have one.

WEIR: That's a good idea.

GOLODRYGA: Keep small children away.

WEIR: That is a good idea.

GOLODRYGA: Make more of the cold Turkey and cheese sandwiches that I turn to when I'm not cooking all the time. I'll just be honest.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLODRYGA: Call it the Bianna. I'll have a Bianna with mayo.

GOLODRYGA: This Bianna grill, yes.

Bill Weir, thank you.

WEIR: All right.

GOLODRYGA: You can come over any time for a sandwich.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLODRYGA: Today, doctors are removing a small lesion above first lady Jill Biden's eye. It was discovered recently during a routine skin cancer exam. Doctors recommended it be removed out of an abundance of caution.

Let's bring in CNN medical correspondent, Dr. Tara Narula.

Tara, good to see you.

Biden is having something known as a moh surgery. Tell us what that is. DR. TARA NARULA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Many Americans may not be

familiar with this. It's a common procedure and way to treat skin cancers, particularly basil cell and squamous cell, which are the most common.

[13:45:03]

And really, what happens is dermatologists, who are especially trained, who do advanced training to become moh surgeons, take the patient to their office. In the office setting, they'll remove the cancer with a special technique where they then take the tissue, freeze it.

Put it under a microscope in the office while the patient is waiting and examine it section by section until they have taken enough of the tissue that they're sure that the margins are clear.

The reason this is such a nice procedure is because really everything happens in this one instance. The patient has the cancer removed, the tissue is examined to make sure margins are clear. And then the excision is closed at the same time by the dermatologist in most instances.

The success rate for this is really 99 percent for first-time cancers in terms of getting all the cancers and 94 percent for recurrent cancers.

So it's kind of a one-stop procedure. Usually takes a couple hours. Risks are minimal. We're talking bleeding, infection. But very well tolerated.

Typically, used in areas like the eyes, the face, the hands or even the genitals where there's not a lot of skin to make a closure.

So you want a very fine technique where you're taking section by section and not a big wide excision, and also areas where you want minimal scarring. That's where the mohs comes in handy.

GOLODRYGA: We should remind you that Dr. Biden's prognosis is a good one.

A question for viewers. How often should we be getting checked for skin cancer?

NARULA: That's a really interesting question.

What's interesting about that is the fact that the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force and the American Cancer Society have not come down in terms of saying people should get screened. They say there's inefficient evidence to promote that.

That being said, home skin care checks are good. Certainly, if you're higher risk, someone with family history or high sun exposure, you should check with your doctor about being checked more frequently, like maybe once a year.

GOLODRYGA: Some good advice there as always.

Dr. Tara Narula, thank you.

NARULA: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Now to a wonderful update on Buffalo Bills Safety Damar Hamlin. The team revealing a short time ago that he is now out of the hospital.

Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest on the field just last week against the Cincinnati Bengals. A Bills trainer performed CPR on him moments later.

Hamlin recovered much faster than doctors had expected. He was transferred from Cincinnati to a hospital in Buffalo Monday. Doctors now say it's safe for him to continue his recovery from home.

The Bills head coach says the team will welcome Hamlin back whenever he is ready.

We are all rooting for him. What an incredible recovery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:52:24]

GOLODRYGA: There's a fierce battle under way for the key Ukrainian town of Soledar in the Donetsk region. A Ukrainian soldier telling CNN, "We're hanging in there."

Our Ben Wedeman is on the frontlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Soledar is just behind us. We're about five miles, seven kilometers from the site where this battle is raging. You can hear artillery, most of it outgoing in the direction of the town.

That town has been the scene of intense fighting in recent weeks. It appears that the situation for Ukrainian forces is increasingly difficult.

Now Russian sources, particularly the so-called Wagner Group, that private military company, says they've taken control of the city. But the Ukrainians insist they still have control of parts of it at least.

But it's questionable how much longer the Ukrainians can hold out as this goes on.

I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from outside Soledar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Ben Wedeman for that report.

I want to go straight to the Pentagon and to our Oren Lieberman.

Oren, Russia is now responding to a significant development in this war. And that is that U.S. will begin training Ukrainians servicemen on the Patriot missile system, not in Germany where they are typically trained, but right here in the United States.

I can imagine Russia not very pleased this. What is the Kremlin saying?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Russia has responded perhaps predictably, saying this is, quote, "de facto involvement of U.S. in the conflict.

Saying that this is proof that this has been not a war between Ukraine and Russia, but a war between the U.S. proxy of Ukraine. More the accusation growing that the U.S. is directly involved in this conflict with the decision of the U.S. to start training Ukraine on the Patriot missiles.

Not only within the next week, according to U.S. officials, and according to the Pentagon, but also in the United States at Fort Sill in Oklahoma where the U.S. conducts its own training on Patriot missile batteries.

That training, as we were the first to report, is now set to begin as soon as next week. The training will take, according to the Pentagon, several months.

For two reasons. They're not being specific on how long it will take. First, it's unclear. Training on Patriots can take up to a year.

The military will work to expedite and accelerate that timeline as much as possible. But they're not sure how short they can make it, given that the Patriot is an advanced and a complex system.

The other reason they're not being specific on the timeline, they simply don't want Russia to know when the Patriot, a long-range air defense system, will arrive on the frontline.

[13:55:01]

And that's a crucial point to make. That this is an air defense system that wouldn't be necessary if there weren't Russian barrages attacking Ukraine.

That's one of the reasons why the U.S. went ahead and approved this. Now that it's clear that there is time to train them on this missile. It's a defensive system, one the U.S. insists is not a sign of U.S. involvement directly in the conflict.

Bianna, again, for Ukrainians, this is a system that will go on top of and provide a long-range option above the medium- and short-range air defense systems they already have.

GOLODRYGA: Oren, because of these nonstop Russian barrages, CNN is also reporting Russia is growing short on munition as well. Thank you so much for your report. We appreciate it.

That does it for me. But don't go anywhere. Much more news after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)