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Ukrainians Claim Success With Soviet-Era Artillery; Russia Focusing All Attention On Soledar; Controversial Catholic Cardinal Dead At 81; Police Detain 1,500 Plus People After Attacks On Government Buildings; Iran Cracks Down On Women Violating Hijab Laws; World Bank: Second Recession in Same Decade Closer Than Ever; Millions of People Face Flood Alerts in California Storms. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired January 11, 2023 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour on CNN, all out assault, why Russia is now focusing much of its military might on one small Ukrainian town.

Australia's Catholic Cardinal George Pell convicted and later acquitted of child sexual abuse charges has died.

And the World Bank warns the global economy is perilously close to a second recession in a decade.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: It could be Russia's first major battlefield victory since August, the Wagner Mercenary Group claiming to control the small town of Soledar in eastern Ukraine.

The area has seen a major push by Russian forces in recent days, Ukrainian officials though insists the fight goes on. But a Ukrainian soldier has told CNN it's only a matter of time before the town falls to Russia control, says the death toll is so high, they've stopped counting the dead.

Some of that is in the Donetsk region and home to the largest salt mine in Europe with a vast network of cavernous underground tunnels. (INAUDIBLE) not far from the strategic city of Bakhmut which has been under siege by Russian forces for weeks.

In his nightly address, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy praised the Ukrainian soldiers who are reportedly fighting house to house in defense of Soledar and called on the world to help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The free world has everything necessary to Stop Russian aggression and to bring about a historic defeat for the terrorist state. And this is important not only for us, this is important for global democracy for all those who value freedom. This is important even more so when Russia is gathering forces for a new escalation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: U.S. and Ukrainian officials say Russian artillery fire is down in parts by as much as 75 percent, a clear departure from the usual tactics of carpet bombing cities from a distance. Russian troops are only now rationing ammunition. Ukrainians have done so since the war began.

And as CNN has Ben Wedeman reports, Ukrainian soldiers become highly effective with the old Soviet era hardware.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Commander Maksmilian, or just Max as he's known, is finalizing the coordinates for a strike on the Russian occupied town of Kreminna.

Before the war, Max was an English teacher. His 43rd artillery brigade has already seen action in the battles of Kyiv, Kharkiv and now Donbas. Their target today a building in Kreminna from where he says attack drones are launched against Ukrainian forces.

This artillery system is known as a Pion. That's a Soviet era artillery system, 203 rounds weigh 100 kilos, 220 pounds. This is a system used both by the Russians and the Ukrainians.

The cold here chills to the bone, making this work all the more difficult. To protect against Russian drones, they've deployed a special weapon that depletes drone batteries. First the round goes into the barrel. Then the cordite. And the trigger cord is pulled. Sending the massive round hurtling toward its target 18 kilometers around 11 miles away. It fires again, and again.

A forward spotter radius Max that the target has been hit. He tells his men to use shrapnel rounds to finish the job.

MAKSMILIAN, 43RD UKRAINIAN ARTILLERY BRIGADE: We damaged it. We destroyed the building where they hide and I suppose they will not make problems for us in future.

WEDEMAN: A small victory in a big war.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, near Kreminna Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Joining me now from Washington retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and CNN Military Analyst Cedric Leighton. Colonel, good for you to be with us. Thank you.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, John. Good to be with you.

[00:05:01]

VAUSE: OK, here's a little more from that Ukrainian soldier fighting to defend Soledar. He told us the situation is critical. Difficult. We are holding on to the last. No one will tell you how many dead and wounded there are because no one knows for sure.

Now, Bakhmut is less than 10 miles south of Soledar, so explain why the Russians need Soledar to take Bakhmut and why Bakhmut is so important to the Russians.

LEIGHTON: Yes, so from the Russian perspective, what you're looking at is a possible path for the Russians to surround Bakhmut. So, Soledar is northeast of Bakhmut. And it has those cave and salt mines that you spoke about.

What that will allow the Russians to do is store their weaponry, store troops, war material of various types, and then use that as a way to push forward into an area that would allow for them if they capture it to potentially maneuver and encircle the town of Bakhmut.

And then you have to, of course, as you ask, why Bakhmut, who's the key thing there is that this opens up the whole area from the Russian perspective of the Donetsk Oblast to the Donetsk region. And if they capture the Donetsk, this part of the Donetsk area, this would give the Russians even more territory that they would control and potentially could open the door from they believe, to control the rest of that particular region.

If they do that, then that gives them a bit of a victory. It may be a Pyrrhic victory, but it would give them at least bragging rights for a few months perhaps.

VAUSE: Britain's defense ministry believes the Russians are most likely in control of Soledar already adding this part of the fighting has focused on the entrances to the 200 kilometer long disused salt mine tunnels, which run underneath the district. Both sides slightly concerned that they could be used for infiltration behind their lines.

So, those tunnels is important enough for Russia to commit a large number of mercenaries to this fight alongside regular Russian soldiers. So specifically, what advantages do these tunnels will give the Russians now? What can they do with this?

LEIGHTON: So potentially, depending on exactly how the tunnels are laid out, it could potentially give the Russians the capability to go underneath the Ukrainian lines and attack the Ukrainian forces from the year -- from the rear. This would allow them to come in and move in in areas where they haven't been able to do so where they've been blocked from the entrances to Soledar. And it also would have prevented them from moving forward, you know, in that particular way.

But John, what you're looking at here is a classic urban type campaign, although it's done in areas that are very complex like a mine and other areas like that. So this is what they're -- what they're dealing with. The Russians are thinking that this is one way that they can ensure their victory in this -- in this way. VAUSE: We also have two senior U.S. officials telling CNN that there's been a substantive change in the type of weaponry the U.S. and its allies are providing to Ukraine to meet Kyiv's requests for firepower.

That includes the Patriot Defense Missiles training for the Ukrainians to begin next month at Fort Still in Oklahoma, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. PAT RYDER, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: The training will prepare approximately 90 to 100 Ukrainian soldiers to operate, maintain and sustain the defensive system over a training course expected to last several months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: At the same time, we have the United Kingdom, which is considering sending Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, which will make the U.K. the first western country to provide tanks.

And we put a lot of pressure imagine on Germany to go one step beyond the modern armored vehicles and provide Leopard tanks.

So, wrap it altogether, do you see this surge in firepower from the West as an attempt to overwhelm Russians before they can regroup? Not some kind of counter offensive, because you know, the one thing that sticks out here, though, is it the Patriot defense -- Patriot Missile Defense System will take a long time for these troops, the Ukrainians to get a hold of and actually train and know how to work it.

LEIGHTON: Right at the minimum, at the bare minimum, it would be about six months before the Patriot training would finish. And by the time the actual battery gets in place, in probably around Kyiv in Ukraine, we're looking at eight months or so at a minimum.

So, all these other pieces of equipment, you know, whether it's tanks, or whether it's armored personnel, vehicles, those kinds of pieces of equipment are going to be necessary for the Ukrainians to at the very least hold their own.

So, what the West is seeing here is the possibility of the Russians using overwhelming numbers to overcome the very heroic Ukrainian resistance.

So, the West is trying very hard to make sure that the Ukrainian forces are not overwhelmed. And the battle for Soledar and then for Bakhmut, would be kind of that opening gambit that the Russians would have there.

So, these weapons systems, where they come from Germany, from Britain, from the United States or France, these weapons systems are going to be critical to stemming the Russian tight and preventing a further erosion of the Ukrainian defenses.

[00:10:02]

VAUSE: Yes, there's lots of get to with this war and obviously, it seems to be escalating in some areas.

Colonel Cedric Leighton, we appreciate your insight and your analysis. Thank you, sir.

LEIGHTON: You bet, John, anytime.

VAUSE: Cardinal George Pell, the most senior Catholic official to be convicted of child sex abuse before his 2020 acquittal has died at 81.

Church officials say Pell died of cardiac arrest following hip replacement surgery in Rome. The Australian born Pell was former archbishop of Melbourne and Sydney and he served as Vatican treasurer for five years.

But in a case that shocked the Catholic world or church rather, Pell was convicted in 2018 for allegedly abusing two choirboys in the 1990s.

He's always denied the charges but served 13 months in prison before an acquittal by Australia's highest court. Here's Australia's Prime Minister reacted to Pell's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: This will come as a shock to many. This was a hip operation, and the consequences of it, unfortunately have been that Cardinal Pell has lost his life. And I express my condolences to all those who will be mourning today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: CNN's Kristie Lu Stout live now from Hong Kong with bought. Kristie, we know that Pell was in Rome to attend Benedict's funeral. So, I guess the question now is, will he return to Sydney? What happens to the burial? And I mean, how will he be greeted or his body will at least be greeted once he received -- returns home?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, he will return back to Sydney in the coming days but this is a man who lives behind and mixed into many marred legacy.

Cardinal George Pell was Australia's most powerful Catholic. He was also the most senior Catholic official to be convicted of child sex abuse before he was acquitted later in 2020.

And on Tuesday, he died of cardiac arrest in Rome, following complications with hip replacement surgery.

And inside the church, there have been just an outpouring of expressions of sadness and shock. And this morning, we heard from the Prime Minister of Australia, he expressed his condolences, and the prime minister added that there will be a service held in the Vatican the coming days followed by a service at St. Mary's Cathedral in Sydney, where Pell will be buried. A man with a very tarnished legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STOUT (voice over): Cardinal George Pell Australia's highest ranking Catholic has died aged 81. He entered the clergy in 1966 and went on to serve as Archbishop of Melbourne and later Sydney.

While an Archbishop, Pell set up the Melbourne response, which included payouts for survivors of clerical sex abuse within the Archdiocese. It became one of the earliest responses to address sex abuse accusations in the church, but critics say was geared to prevent scandal and could have been more generous to victims.

In 2003, Pell was ordained as a cardinal by Pope John Paul II and rose to become Vatican treasurer, widely considered the third most powerful spot in the Vatican.

Italian newspapers referred to him as a bull in a China shop for his forthright manner when dealing with financial reform. But Pell was credited for his attempts to make the church's bookkeeping more transparent.

In 2014, Pell was called back to Australia to appear before Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to sexual abuse in the country. The Commission found that Pell had known about sex abuse in the church, but not reported it to police.

In 2018, Pell himself faced court on five counts of historical child sex abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cardinal Pell, would you please stand?

STOUT: Pell strenuously denied the charges, but he was found guilty.

After spending one year in prison, Pell successfully applied to get the convictions quashed by Australia's High Court, who said that the jury should have had doubts about the alleged offences. Pell's name was removed from Australia's child sex offender register, but he remained the most senior Catholic to ever be accused of pedophilia.

Pell died in Rome on Tuesday from cardiac arrest after a hip replacement surgery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT (on camera): Now, Pell vehemently denied the sex abuse charges which he called in an interview a product of fantasy, but child abuse victims, and advocates remain very angry, and they've been sharing their strong emotions and reactions on social media this day.

And we have also learned that the father of a deceased ex choirboy, who alleged that Pell sexually abused him, the father will continue his civil action against the cardinal despite his death.

In fact, according to the father's lawyer, we had this statement, we'll bring it up for you. This is Lisa Flynn of Shine Lawyers. She says "There is still a great deal of evidence for this claim to rely on and the court will be asked in due course to make its ruling on that evidence". And she adds that the claim will continue against the church and

whatever estate Pell has left behind, John.

VAUSE: Kristie, thank you. Kristie Lu Stout live for us in Hong Kong. Thank you very much for that.

[00:15:01]

Miles Pattenden is a historian and senior research fellow at the Institute for Religion and Critical Inquiry at the Australian Catholic University. He is with us this hour from Melbourne. So, thank you for taking the time.

Good afternoon. Thank you.

VAUSE: I want you to read in part a statement from the former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who was close to Pell with regards to Pell's conviction on charges of child sex abuse. Abbott writes this.

It was a modern form of crucifixion; reputationally at least a kind of living death. He goes on to claim that Pell by dealing to equably with monstrous allegation, he strikes, according to Abbott, as a saint of our times, and he goes on to say his reputation will grow over time and Pell will become an inspiration for the ages.

What was notable, though is after Pell's successful appeal to those child sex abuse charges. Previously redacted government reports were published, which concluded Pell had known for decades about clergy members sexually abusing children but did nothing about it. How does that sit with the appeal for sainthood for Pell?

MILES PATTENDEN, HISTORIAN, AUSTRALIAN CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: Well, I think Tony Abbott's statement sums up why Pell is such a polarizing figure that there were many people like Tony Abbott, who greatly admired him for the clarity with which he was able to express his conservative convictions, and who saw his trial and conviction, which was subsequently acquitted, of course, as a form of martyrdom. And then there were many others in Australia who saw that as extremely distasteful and disrespectful to the victims of clerical sexual abuse, and who thought that Pell had not been fully held to account for the role that he played in covering up that abuse or in impeding the police in their inquiries as it was being uncovered in previous decades.

VAUSE: Would it be fair to say that right now, for the most part, the reaction from within the church to Pell's death has been kind of muted? So, no recognition of his failings, but no great defense of him either, as you know, as the third highest ranking leader within the Vatican.

PATTENDEN: Well, I think to be fair to the church, and there's a great deal of shock at the moment that this is very unexpected news. It's not like the death of Pope Benedict two weeks ago, where I think most Catholics were mentally prepared that that would happen at some point in the near future. And we saw Cardinal Pell only a week or so ago at Benedict's funeral

and he gave some interviews. So, this is a great shock and is very saddening to many of those within the church and within the church hierarchy.

And so, they're probably taking their time to assess what they think about Pell's legacy and what they should say.

VAUSE: Pell will be remembered for a lot of things, including opposition to women's rights. He thought abortion was worse than clergy sexually abusing kids. He covered up for pedophile priests. He was vilified. He vilified the LGBTQ community.

So, what's on the other side of the ledger in terms of, you know, his positive legacy, if you like?

PATTENDEN: Well, I think it depends who you ask what his positive legacy was. Pell was certainly the kind of man who had the courage of his convictions and was able to get stuff done. And he was very good at identifying problems that face the church proposing solutions and implementing them, even if that means stepping on people's toes. And that brought him to the attention of his superiors both in Australia and then in the Vatican. And was the skill set which even Pope Francis who is by no means an ideological fellow traveler of Pell are recognized as important when he invited him to become the treasurer of back in 2014.

But as you say, for many other Australians, they have a very different perspective on Pell and his conservative views were not something which they could themselves reconcile them to what which they thought were -- they wanted to agree with.

VAUSE: Miles, thank you so much for being with us. It really is. I don't think I can remember an individual who's such a divided legacy or divided, you know, so many people they're opinion or view in their life's work, but it will -- it'll become apparent I guess in the coming days and weeks. Thanks for being with us.

PATTENDEN: Thank you.

VAUSE: We'll take a short break, when we come back, Brazil, seeking the arrest of a former Justice Minister, as officials continue to investigate Sunday's attack on three key government buildings.

Also, Iranian officials promised an even tougher crackdown on women who violate the country's hijab laws.

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VAUSE: Brazil's Supreme Court has ordered the arrest of the former Justice Minister who served in the administration of Jair Bolsonaro.

Anderson Torres was in charge of Public Security in Brasilia when Bolsonaro supporters stormed three government buildings on Sunday. He's currently vacationing in Florida, but has promised to turn himself in.

The court also ordered the arrest of a former military police commander who was taken into custody on Tuesday.

All this comes amid mounting criticism of Brazil's security forces and growing questions as to how hundreds of protesters were able to breach the presidential palace, the Supreme Court, as well as Congress.

CNN's Isa Soares has more now reporting in from the Brazilian capital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Pro-Bolsonaro supporters defiant and unremorseful.

Victory is ours they scream. Our flag will never be red they chant. A direct reference to President Lula da Silva's left wing workers party.

They leave the Federal Police Academy as free men and women after being questioned about their alleged role in one of the obvious days in Brazilian politics.

Some of those still inside complain of the conditions. It is awful food, not even dogs eat this, one says.

Some authorities have vowed to punish those involved. Those found to have violently played a part in tearing through the democratic institutions are being accused of terrorism and attempted coup among other offenses.

SOARES (on camera): One senator tells me that a large number of them have been free, but many are still inside.

Authorities are trawling through all the intelligence, all the video to find out what role they played on that Sunday as they run riot through the Capitol.

SOARES (voice over): A protester who acknowledges she went inside but denies being part of any violence tells me her story.

It's chaos here because we don't know anything. They can't say exactly if people are imprisoned if they're going to get out, she tells me.

For 50 days she says she was protesting outside the army headquarters in Brasilia, hoping the election that she says was robbed from Jair Bolsonaro would be overturned.

For many like her, the issue is Lula, a man who previously served time on corruption charges. Those were later thrown out on a judicial technicality.

Our intention she asks, not agreeing with everything that was happening, she says. The ballot boxes we keep claiming this all the time, asking for help from the armed forces to help the people, she asked.

I asked her if her actions make her a terrorist.

I'm not a terrorist. I don't have weapons she tells me.

But those that did carry them left their mark on this country's institution tearing through the halls of power here with (INAUDIBLE) and even grenades according to the justice minister, in an act that can only be described as an attack on Brazilian democracy.

Back at the federal police, I asked the same protester if she regrets anything. I don't regret it. I don't regret it. Because I was unarmed, I didn't go with a mask. I didn't go with glasses. I didn't go with a bomb. And this is a challenge for Lula da Silva, who has been on the job for just over a week. Uniting a polarized country. A movement that is angry and simply refuses to accept defeat.

Isa Soares, CNN, Brazilia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Ongoing questions for the U.S. president about the 10 classified documents found in a private office from his time as vice president. Reporters raised the questions even while Biden attended a regional summit in Mexico City, the team leading that summit just then.

He said he was surprised to learn the documents were there, he does not know their contents. The White House says the National Archives received the documents a day after they were discovered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People know I take classified documents classified information seriously. I've turned over the boxes. They've turned over the boxes to the Archives. And we're cooperating fully -- cooperating fully with the review and which I hope will be finished soon.

[00:25:13]

VAUSE: Earlier, President Biden met with leaders of Canada and Mexico where the trio committed to a declaration of North America that promises cooperation on everything from regional security to climate change and health.

Mexican President also announced a new task force to strengthen economic ties and trade between the three countries.

And the Biden administration rolled out new measures to curb migrant crossings from the southern border, including creation of a virtual one stop shop to help migrants find legal pathways to the United States, as well as brick and mortar centers in southern Mexico where migrants can get similar information.

Well, Iran is now toughing a crackdown on women who violate the country's hijab laws. One of the driving forces behind months long antigovernment protests. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh has details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The Office of Iran's Attorney General announcing that they have instructed authorities to enforce harsher measures when dealing with those violating the country's mandatory hijab or veil law.

Typically, women would face 10 days to two months in jail for violating that law. Now, they will be facing fines, travel bans, no access to public services and other measures.

And those they say encouraging women not to wear the hijab will be facing even harsher punishment. One to 10 years in jail they say for encouraging corruption.

This comes after all that speculation a few weeks ago after statements from Iranian officials saying that they are reviewing the country's mandatory hijab law and all these reports about abolishing the morality police, and there was speculation about whether there was going to be any sort of concessions that were going to be made by the Iranian regime and those who know the regime have said all along that there was absolutely no way it was going to compromise on one of the pillars of the Islamic Republic, and that is the hijab.

It's also very important to point out but while the issue of the hijab, the death of Mahsa Amini while in the custody of the morality police sparked these protests back in September, the hijab is not the only reason people have been protesting. They say that this is about so much more than that. It is about basic human rights, people's rights to choose, women's right to choose whether to wear or not to wear the hijab, people's freedom to be able to speak out freely without the fear of being jailed, taking part in peaceful demonstrations without the threat of prison or the death penalty.

It is about what Iranians would tell you, this is about the now familiar slogan of these protests, woman, life, freedom.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Istanbul.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: An outrage is growing over the executions of antigovernment protesters in Iran with at least one man hanging from a crane in a public square. The U.N. has accused Iran of weaponizing the death penalty to instill fear and cross descent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAVINA SHAMDASANI, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: The weaponization of criminal procedures to punish people for exercising their basic rights, such as those participating in or organizing demonstrations amounts to state sanctioned killings.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: According to state media, Iran executed two more men on Saturday for allegedly killing a member of the security forces during those nationwide protests.

Iran warns, more expectations or executions rather, could happen soon.

The global economy teetering on the brink of a recession and the World Bank is now slashing growth forecasts. When we come back, we'll talk about what's fueling such a gloomy outlook.

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VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

[00:31:23]

The World Bank warns the global economy is on the cusp of a second recession in the same decade, a one-two punch which has not happened since the 1930s. The bank has revised downward global growth for the coming year, to 1.7 percent, about half of earlier forecasts.

World Bank says developing countries struggling to recover from the pandemic will be hit the hardest. Rising inflation and interest rates, Russia's war in Ukraine. All of it, headwinds for global growth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AYHAN KOSE, DIRECTOR, WORLD BANK'S PROSPECTS GROUP: There are multiple reasons why we have to slow down. Of course, we have been going through one of the sharpest interest rate cycles. Interest rates have been increasing around the world. You have significant volatility in food markets, in commodity markets. And then of course, we have a major outbreak in China. China slowed quite considerably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Rana Foroohar is CNN's global economic analyst, as well as a global business columnist and associate editor for "The Financial Times." Happy new year. It's been a while. Good to see you.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN LOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Happy new year, John. Great to see you.

VAUSE: Thank you. Now, we begin this year, though, with some gloom for the world economy, and the gloom comes down to this: "The world's three major engines of growth -- the United States, the euro area, and China -- are undergoing a period of pronounced weakness, with adverse spillovers for emerging market and developing economies." This according to the World Bank.

So a simultaneous slowdown in the world's three biggest economies, it's happened before. It's not unheard of. But in the past, all three were able to cut interest rates or ramp up quantitative easings (ph) to jumpstart growth. Those measures are effectively off the table now because of inflation. So what options do policy makers have right now? FOROOHAR: Well, all right. Let me start, John, by saying that these

are the World Bank's projections. There are other protections. You know, I'm in the odd position of being perhaps a little more optimistic. Usually, I feel like I'm the Cassandra of the global economy.

But I actually feel a bit more optimistic, particularly about the U.S., than what the bank might be.

If I look out at the U.S. situation right now, balance sheets are actually in better shape than they were in the last major downturn, you know, around the great financial crisis.

COVID was different. But I do think that the U.S. consumer still has a little bit of firepower.

Europe and China, I'm more worried about. Europe, in particular. I mean, the energy situation, the general sense that policy is tapped out. That the eurozone is struggling in so many ways. That makes me think, yes, they're in for a long, cold winter, if you will.

China, mixed bag. You know, I look at China, and I see, certainly, a debt bubble that has not reached the bottom yet. But I also see policies around COVID that are better than we'd hoped for. It's possible that China could actually surprise on the upside.

So while I don't want to disagree completely with the World Bank, I think that there are somewhat different ways to look at the outlook at the moment.

VAUSE: OK. Well, that's -- that's why we have you here. But we should note the World Bank, though, is warning their interest increases in the U.S., essentially, could be the final straw to tip the world -- global economy into recession. Along with that, there are other concerns, as well. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOSE: There is many of risks. And that many is very large. Inflation can't stay elevated. Interest rates can't go up higher or remain high. You have geopolitical tensions. You have risks associated with food insecurity. Energy insecurity. There might be more COVID outbreaks. So there are risks associated with of course climate change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:35:06]

VAUSE: We've known a lot of this stuff for a while now and the threat that it poses to the global economy.

What I'm wondering, though, is what sort of obligation or responsibility does the World Bank have when it comes to dealing with climate change, which we just heard, you know, the World Bank looks at as a threat to the global economy.

FOROOHAR: Well, for sure. And certainly, it is.

I mean, if you think about climate change, just in regards to the supply chain disruptions. You know, we're seeing once every three years now, you're seeing some kind of major global supply chain disruption. It might be because of a pandemic, but it also might be because of natural disaster.

Migration issues are huge for the World Bank. I mean, if the bank is about development, you have to look at developing economies and say, boy, they are at the sharp end of the spear of climate change. And you're going to see massive population migrations. The kind that we've only begun to grapple with in the future.

So I think of this as really front and center of what the bank should be doing. And frankly, what policy makers around the world should be thinking about.

VAUSE: In the U.S., the Federal Reserve is trying to, quote, "understand the ways climate change and the global shift to cleaner energy could rattle the financial sector."

And later this year is expected to help banks understand how their businesses would be affected by several climate-related shocks.

That sparked some criticism, especially from the right, like this: "The Central Bank wants to be considering green energy investment as a reduction of risk while considering reliable energy sources like coal, oil, and natural gas as an increase in risk." Goes on to criticize, "That is the equivalent of saying it is safe to drive without a seatbelt, providing you're texting at the same time."

That doesn't seem to be the case to me. So what is the Fed doing, and is the criticism justified?

FOROOHAR: Totally unjustified. I mean, you know, let's step back a moment and say that the financial markets themselves see climate change as a massive risk.

I mean, insurance companies are all over this. There are new rules in Europe to actually change fiduciary responsibility. There's a push to really make companies liable for not taking action around climate change. And not just in their own companies but their own supply chains.

So the markets themselves are looking at this and saying, this is a major risk factor. So I think it's crucial. I think that, you know, anybody who cares about financial market stability has to care about climate change.

And I frankly think the issue is not going away. And at some point, it will probably be factored in, in a more formal basis, to some of the risks that are being modeled by the Fed.

VAUSE: Yes. It does seem that that's where we're heading. And that's not exactly a bad thing.

Rana, thank you. Good to see you. Happy new year.

FOROOHAR: You too.

VAUSE: French workers may soon have to wait two more years before being eligible for retirement. Major reform of the country's pension system is underway, and the government is pushing a new law which will see eligibility for a full pension not until age 64.

Officials (ph) now bring in more than $90 billion annually by 2030. But there's already a backlash, with unions calling for a day of strikes and protests next week.

Reforming the pension system was a key election promise by President Emmanuel Macron.

Still ahead here on CNN, deadly flooding, mudslides, whiteout conditions. Powerful storms hitting California. More on the way. Meteorologist Britley Ritz has the forecast in a moment.

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VAUSE: The past eight years were the warmest on record for the planet. A new report by the European Union's climate change service says 2022 was not only the fifth warmest year, but also a year of climate extremes that brought record-breaking heat waves in Europe. And deadly floods in Pakistan.

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FREJA VAMBORF, SENIOR SCIENTIST, COPERNICUS CLIMATE CHANE SERVICE: Globally, it was the fifth warmest year on record. But what's really to note here is that the last eight years were all the warmest on record.

And when you look at Europe, Europe was the second warmest. On record. And it was this summer that was the warmest on record. By quite a large margin.

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VAUSE: Now according to the report, annual average temperatures have now reached 1.2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. That's getting very, very close to the 1.5-degree mark believed to be a dangerous tipping point.

California has gone through extreme drought to extreme flooding in just a matter of days. A series of powerful storms forcing tens of thousands of people to evacuate, prompting dozens of rescues, as well. The state's governor says at least 17 people have died.

Flooding and mudslides have devastated parts of California. Around 75,000 people are without electricity at this hour. Meantime, northern California has seen a record snow pack and whiteout conditions, forcing road closures in many parts. Let's go to meteorologist Britley Ritz for more. You know, the

weather, it's bad but it's kind of needed.

BRITLEY RITZ, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Very much so. I mean, most of the state was under some sort of drought over the past few years. And now, unfortunately, getting all of this rain in one bit of time. But this is helping, John.

And notice the rain chances have started to take a dive down, which is great news. But, wave after wave is going to move back in over the upcoming weekend and into next week, as well.

Notice most of the rainfall now, just off to the East, Santa Rosa. Moving through Eureka as this point in time. Now, the heaviest rain that fell came in just up to the East of Santa Barbara, picking up ten-plus inches.

Now mind you, that's estimated over the last 48 hours.

Verified totals of parts of California reaching over 16 inches, over two days' time, folks. There's that moisture with this atmospheric river. This area of low pressure, moving in, all of that moisture pushing onto shore, over once again, the next 24 hours.

What's an AR? What's an atmospheric river? Well, the Jet Stream pushing all this moisture that's coming off of Southeast Asia. And right up onto our West Coast.

So we get that tropical feel. And all of that moisture, again, wave after wave over the upcoming days: Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Look at all of this moisture pushing back in.

It's not as much as the previous Ars that we've been dealing with. But it's still already saturated. So any more rain added causes another threat. Hence the flood watches that are in effect.

So more widespread flooding expected. The creeks and rivers continue to rise. Impassable roadways are going to be a problem, and of course, more mudslides expected, John.

VAUSE: Yes. And those thunderstorms are scaring the -- scaring the dogs and the pets all across California, including mine. Britley, thanks for being with us.

I'm John Vause. Back at the top of the hour with more on CNN NEWSROOM. But first, WORLD SPORT after a short break.

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