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Garland Names Special Counsel; Seven Killed in Powerful Storms; Remembering Lisa Marie Presley; Schumer Stops Short of Calling for Resignation. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 13, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:33]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Friday morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Lots of news this morning.

Happening right now, the newly appointed special counsel, Robert Hur, is beginning his investigation into classified documents found by his lawyers and staff at President Biden's home, as well as a former private office. Now we are seeing both the current and former president under investigation. Ahead, the legal and political ramifications as the two could be on the ballot against each other once again in 2024.

HILL: Plus, we are closely monitoring the devastation across the south. At least seven people confirmed dead after tornadoes ripped across parts of Alabama and Georgia. Officials say one of those tornadoes may have been on the ground for at least 50 miles. We are live in Selma, Alabama.

SCIUTTO: Yes, those pictures from the air always tell such a powerful story.

Also this morning, the world is mourning the loss of Lisa Marie Presley, Elvis Presley's only child. She died overnight at the age of 54. A look back at her life in the spotlight.

HILL: We do begin this hour, though, with the discovery of classified documents for two presidents.

CNN's senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz joining us with some new reporting at this hour about former President Trump. CNN's senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid also with us.

So first, Paula, let's just bring us up to speed here. How do we expect all this to play out in terms of President Biden now that there is a special counsel?

PAULA REID, CNN SENOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, it's important to note that the U.S. attorney who was tapped to review this matter, he's the one who recommended a special counsel. And that really suggests that there is likely a lot going on here that we don't know about. And this case could be more complicated than it seems at present.

Now, in order to take on this task, Robert Hur, he's going to have to create a staff, a team. He's going to need resources. Potentially his own office. This deals with classified information, so people will need the right clearances, perhaps the right facilities. And many of the people he could tap for this are already detailed to the other special counsel's investigation. So, he has a lot of work to do over the next few weeks to set up his office, set up his team and move forward with this investigation. And we expect he'll likely issue subpoenas, he could interview people. Unclear at this point, certainly, if he'll use a grand jury. And, of course, a big question about whether or not the president himself would ever answer questions in the course of this investigation.

Now, in terms of who is Rob Hur, how will he approach this job, we spoke with many people who worked with him yesterday, including his former boss, Rod Rosenstein. He said that Hur was actually his liaison between Rosenstein's office and the Robert Mueller investigation. So, he knows exactly what he is getting himself into.

And, Erica, he has sterling conservative credentials. He appears to come from central casting. You know, Katelyn, our other colleagues, we were talking to ourselves earlier this week, we're like who -- who could they possibly get to take on this job? This is exactly right. Attorney General Merrick Garland absolutely nailed this selection.

SCIUTTO: All right, let's go to CNN's senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz.

So, Katelyn, you have the Biden investigation. You have the ongoing Trump investigation. You have new reporting this morning about who exactly the Justice Department wants to speak to about classified documents found at Trump's Mar-a-Lago home. What do you know?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right, Jim and Erica, just because there's a new special counsel being appointed, it doesn't mean the Justice Department puts to bed other things that they're working on. And we do now know, Kaitlan Collins and I have confirmed, that the Justice Department does want to speak to two people that Donald Trump's legal team hired to search four of his properties last year for possible additional classified documents. These two people did end up finding two classified documents after the hundreds others were found by the FBI at Mar-a-Lago in August.

And so now this is a sign that there is a continuing step of investigative activity. The Justice Department is not just having an open investigation, but they're continuing to gather information. It also comes amid this situation where the Justice Department believes there could be obstruction of justice. That was one of the reasons that they went and did that unprecedented search at Mar-a-Lago last August that does make it a little bit different than the Biden situation with that separate investigation. But in the Trump Mar-a-Lago documents investigation, we also know that there is a sealed court filing where the Justice Department has expressed that they are unsatisfied with Donald Trump's team making sure that they have turned over all national security records that may have remained in their possession.

[09:05:07]

Kaitlan Collins and I were able to confirm that that court fight is still unresolved, even after a hearing in December. And now, with this new investigative step, what could be happening is a negotiation. It doesn't look like those two people will be entirely cordoned off from speaking to the Justice Department, but they're -- they may want to try and limit the questions that the Justice Department can ask them.

We did get a statement on the record from one of Trump's attorneys, Timothy Parlatore. He said, President Trump did nothing wrong and a proper investigation would have concluded months ago amicably. But it does continue.

Jim and Erica.

HILL: Katelyn Polantz, Paula Reid, appreciate the reporting from you both. Thank you.

Joining us now to discuss, Caroline Polici. She's a federal and white collar criminal defense attorney, and David Gergen, former presidential adviser to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton.

It's good to have you both with us.

You know, I was struck, just about 24 hours ago exactly, I was speaking with former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti, who told me -- I asked him specifically, what would the threshold be here for a special counsel? And he said, it comes down to a question of whether they believe there's reason to open a criminal investigation.

Caroline, based on, again, what we know publicly at this point, does this say to you that there is perhaps evidence of criminality with these documents that were found amongst President Biden's papers, or do you see this as a political move of the attorney general trying to save face here?

CAROLINE POLISI, FEDERAL AND WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that's a very good question, Erica. And I think Paula really hit the nail on the head in that this would lead me to believe that there is more that hasn't been reported because Renato is absolutely right, the threshold matter to even get to appointing a special counsel is that Merrick Garland had to believe there was some basis to pursue a criminal investigation. And based on all the reporting we've seen thus far, that just isn't there.

You know, historical prosecutions of this nature show that there has to be an aggravating factor. Not all unauthorized retention of classified documents is criminal. And so, you know, obviously the aggravating factor in the Mar-a-Lago case was the obstruction, right? Here, we don't see any of that. We see that the documents were immediately turned over to the National Archives. DOJ was informed. There doesn't seem to be that extra hook. Unless Merrick Garland is making just a purely political decision here, I think that there has to be something that we're not privy to.

SCIUTTO: So just a quick follow there, Caroline. In these kinds of cases in the past, if typically that hook, as you describe it, is an obstruction thing, what else -- which we've seen with Trump and -- to date, at least not to our knowledge with Biden, what is another potential hook that would raise it to that level?

POLISI: Well, look, the hallmark of any criminal statute, any criminal prosecution really is knowledge and intent. And we've seen the special -- the White House Counsel really pushing back on this idea that there is criminality here. The statement that they issued, you know, something to the effect of, you know, Biden will be exonerated. He -- this was an inadvertent mishap.

SCIUTTO: Right.

POLISI: You know, a comingling of classified documents. He didn't know.

Really what you need is that knowledge and intent factor. And we've seen, in previous prosecutions, that there was, you know, that element there of a willful violation, of mall intent to either disclose or obstruct, things of that nature, that we just don't see here, Jim.

HILL: David, what's also been raised has been the selective transparency, I think we could say, of the White House. In fact, one justice official telling CNN, the White House's own public statements earlier in the week offer this incomplete narrative about the documents, and that reinforced the need for a special counsel.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the way -

HILL: As you're watching this play out, how would you be advising this White House to get a handle on the communications because it doesn't seem that they have one.

GERGEN: Well, I think they - I think they are going down an important path, and that is that they're trying to be as cooperative as possible. And I think one of the most important things that the White House has to do now is to be, you know -- is to be forthcoming, to be transparent, to tell -- put all the facts out there, to accept the blame.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: And I also think we're -- it's a little early to be finding criminal investigations here in the Biden case. It does seem the intent is critical, it's essential in a criminal case before you bring a case against somebody. And this appears to be a case of massive sloppiness on the part of his staff and people around him. And it's humiliating politically and it's going to be damaging to him politically. The White House has been counting on the next few months being ones in which President Biden could continue to go upward on his path to reelection.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: And, at the same time, Donald Trump would be going downward as he gets ensnared in more and more legal activities and may be indicted and that sort of thing.

And that robs -- it robs, for the moment, a lot of the sting of the anti-Trump arguments.

[09:10:08]

And I think that's - it's a negative, I think, a net negative, to have this story now topping everything else that Joe Biden is trying to do.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GERGEN: But, again, I would be careful. I think, if I may just take one more moment, what has been happening in recent administrations that has not been really discussed very much since all of this broke is that there has been for some years a sense in - among people who work in the executive branch of the government that classification of documents is important, but it's not critical, so that - so that in every administration I can remember recently there have been people who walked away with documents because they wanted to write books, they wanted to write memoires, they wanted to have something they could take to their publishers. And there's got - there got to be a sense that, how do you sneak documents out to play with however you want?

So, I attribute a lot of this to the kind of sloppiness and to the view that Pat Moynihan, Senator Moynihan, put forward a long time ago, and that is, we put classifications on too many documents, there are too many secrets, and, as a result, people get complacent about what it is that's -- that's classified.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Definite concerns about overclassification. I remember when I had a clearance sometimes, you know, lunch plans were somehow classified.

GERGEN: Yes, exactly.

SCIUTTO: I mean because the default setting is, better to classify than not to classify, and then you create all these standards.

Anyway, longer discussion.

David Gergen, Caroline Polici, thanks so much.

GERGEN: Thank you.

HILL: People just at this point being able to get out there to survey the damage, hopefully start to clean up after these severe storms and tornadoes ripped throughout the south, leaving in their wake a very long path of destruction and also a heartbreak. At least seven people we know were killed in Alabama and Georgia. Homes, as you can see in these images, just ripped apart. Perhaps not surprisingly at this hour, thousands still without power.

SCIUTTO: Yes, how often have we seen devastating pictures like this in recent weeks? This is Griffin County, Georgia, where the storm damaged several buildings, including a high school. Goodness. And a tornado through right through the heart of Selma, Alabama. Look at these area views. Buildings just wiped away it seems. So much damage. This a view from our drone in the air.

CNN's Ryan Young, he is there in Selma, which is near Autauga County, where at least six of those deaths happened.

Ryan, you know, you're on the ground. I wonder what it looks like where you are.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim and Erica, I can tell you the light is really starting to -- the sun is starting to come out just a little bit here, so we can kind of see the damage. Look behind me at how this storefront was just torn apart by the storm. So many people talked about the ferocity of this storm as it dropped out of nowhere, they felt like. You heard a noise, the common train sound, and then, the next thing you know, things started getting blown over.

As we walk this direction, and I'll show you, look how it tossed this box truck here. You can see how it just laid it on its side. And you can see this playing out over and over.

We're near the train tracks here in Selma, and this is Broad Street. So this goes through the center of town. But look at the destruction back this direction. You can see that tree there is just covered in metal.

People were terrified when this happened. In fact, take a listen to a woman who ran for cover.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean we had to run for cover. We had to go run and jump in the closet.

Oh, my God. Oh, my. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Y'all look. Oh, my God, it's the building beside us. Oh, my God, y'all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Well, Jim, as you can see as we get closer, you can see how this car has been damaged and you can -- the men here in the middle, they work with the train company. They're trying to get these tracks back open and viable.

As people come through this area, I've had family in this area, they talk about, they are trapped in their neighborhood now because trees are all over the roads here. And that what - something that people were worried about, the idea that folks would start trying to come out to assess the damage. But right now with power crews surging into the area to get the power back on, they're urging people to stay home.

But you can see all the destruction that's behind me and what this storm did just in a matter of minutes.

HILL: It is - it is always remarkable to see those pictures.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Absolutely.

HILL: And I know when you're there on the ground, even more so, you see the power of nature to just completely decimate a community.

Ryan, glad you're there for us. Thank you.

Still to come here, the latest details about the death of 54-year-old Lisa Marie Presley, of course, the only child of Elvis. A mother, a daughter. Just days ago here she is on the red carpet at the Golden Globes.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

HILL: Tributes, understandably, pouring in this morning.

SCIUTTO: What a shock.

We are also joined later this hour by Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra, this on the major changes this year to prescription drug costs as Medicare prepares to negotiate prices for the first time. Could mean a lot of relief.

Plus, tonight is your chance to become a super mega, mega, mega millionaire.

[09:15:05]

The second biggest drawing ever. We're going to be live in Florida where the ticket for the largest Mega Millions prize was sold just a few months ago.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA MARIE PRESLEY, MUSICIAN: But most of all I love you cause you're you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, this morning celebrities and fans are honoring, remembering Lisa Marie Presley. This after her sudden death overnight at the age of just 54. Here she was singing "I Love You Because" in a duet with a recording of her late father Elvis Presley. She was hospitalized Thursday after suffering an apparent cardiac arrest. She is survived by her mother, Priscilla Presley, and three daughters.

HILL: CNN entertainment reporter Chloe Melas following this story for us.

We know we had seen her just earlier this week, so that was part of the shock. [09:20:03]

And also just so terrible, you know, the loved ones who are left behind.

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: It was such a touch and go situation last night because in the morning we knew that she had been -- paramedics were called to her home in Calabasas, California. I had just seen her at the Golden Globes two nights before in the ballroom. I passed right by her table. I didn't speak to her, but like I've been saying, she definitely seemed very somber. But, obviously, we can't correlate the two things together. We don't have a toxicology report, an autopsy. We don't know any details.

But the tributes are flooding in. One of her ex-husbands, Nicholas Cage, saying that she had the greatest laugh of anyone he ever knew. John Travolta, Leah Remimi (ph). And, you know, just two nights ago at the Globes Austin Butler winning for his performance of portraying her father in the movie "Elvis" that is getting a ton of Oscar buzz. And when he was speaking, the cameras kept panning to the audience and you saw her. She looked like she was wiping tears from her eyes. There she is, right next to her mother. She's the only child of Elvis. And it's just - you know, this family has suffered such tragedy in the public eye, you know, especially with the loss of her son Benjamin in 2020 to suicide. As a mother, you know, I wrote that story the summer when she wrote this essay for grief awareness month and it was awful, you know.

HILL: Yes, it was heartbreaking to read.

MELAS: And she said, my soul went with you. And she was never able to get over the loss of her son.

You know, this family has been through so much. And, obviously, so many questions. But our hearts go out to her three daughters that she is survived by, and, obviously, her mother, Priscilla.

HILL: Yes. A lot for them this morning. It's true. So much tragedy for this family.

Chloe, appreciate it. Thank you.

MELAS: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the governor of Illinois signed a strict gun law banning assault weapons just this week. Now some sheriffs in his state say they're just not going to enforce it. Governor J.B. Pritzker will join us live, next. You'll want to see it.

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[09:26:25]

SCIUTTO: Well, the challenge for him and Republicans mounting. This morning Republican Congressman George Santos is facing growing pressure to resign from members of his own party. Now six House members are calling for Santos to step down. This after he lied repeatedly about his resume, as well as much of his personal, his financial, his professional background during his campaign as he was running.

HILL: Still, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy standing by Santos. This morning on CNN, Senate Majority Leader Democrat Chuck Schumer weighing in, although he, too, stopped short of calling for resignation.

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SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): He's told series of series, lie after lie after lie. Now there are several investigations going on and some of the charges are very, very serious. And so I think we should let these investigations go forward and see what they produce.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: But you don't think Kevin McCarthy should stand up to say --

SCHUMER: I want to see what the investigators show. They may show - they may show all kinds of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Manu Raju live on Capitol Hill this morning.

So, Manu, I know you have pushed Speaker McCarthy on this very topic yesterday. He does not really want to engage it seems.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he doesn't. And, look, the politics are very real for him. If George Santos were to step aside, were to resign, this would create a special election in a district that Joe Biden won by 8 points, meaning that it would be a very good chance that Democrats could pick this up, it could tighten Kevin McCarthy's already very thin majority, and that's something he absolutely does not want and we're told that it is seriously a factor here as he continues to stand by Santos.

Now, McCarthy's contention is that if there is an issue it will go through the House Ethics Committee. If the House Ethics Committee finds anything, then they will take action. Also, if the federal investigators, if there's any charges that are brought, conference rules would strip him from any committee assignments. But he is allowing the process to play out.

And when I asked him about the concerns, the very real concerns being from a number of his own colleagues, from even some Republicans about the national security implications of allowing someone who has questions about his past, who could face potential fraud charges from Brazil, to have classified briefings, McCarthy didn't seem to have that much of a concern.

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REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I don't see any way that he's going to have top secret - you're referring to George Santos. He's got a long way to go to earn trust. But the one thing I do know is that you apply the Constitution equal to all Americans. The voters of his district have elected him. He is seated. He is part of the Republican conference. There are concerns with him, so he will go before ethics. If anything is found to be of wrong, he will be held accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, the House Ethics process notoriously takes a very long time to play out. So, even if it were to go through the House Ethics Committee and things start - and an effort to expel him would be brought to the House floor, that would require a two-thirds majority of the chamber to do just that. An incredibly rare occurrence. And with the support of Kevin McCarthy for him to continue to serve, it is unlikely that that would get that -- reach that threshold. So the only possibility of him stepping aside is if he were to simply decide it is time to resign. And what we have heard from George Santos time and again, he is not resigning. He refuses to do so. He doesn't - he's not really engaging on this series of lies about his past other than saying yesterday that he's been honest and even though that -- even that claim, of course, coming into question.

Guys.

SCIUTTO: Manu Raju, thanks so much.

RAJU: Thank you.

HILL: Ukraine, this morning, denying Moscow's claim that Russian forces have taken the key city of Soledar, in the eastern part of the country.

[09:30:01]

Instead, Ukraine says it's actually holding the line there despite troops running out of both food and water.

A CNN team nearby did witness.