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UGA Football Player and Staffer Killed after Championship Celebration; 8 Million People Under Flood Watches Across California; Yeti Airlines Crash in Central Nepal; At least 30 Dead after Russian Missile Strikes Apartment Block in Ukraine; 5 more pages with Classified Markings Found at Biden Residence; Five More Pages With Classified Markings Found At Biden Residence; Howard Basketball Focusers on Black Maternal Health for Day of Service. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired January 15, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:28]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with celebration turning into tragedy at the University of Georgia. Just hours after the football team was honored for winning a national championship one of their key players, 20-year- old Devin Willock, was killed in a car crash along with a member of the football staff, 24-year-old Chandler Lacroix.

CNN's Isabel Rosales is live for us in Athens, Georgia. Isabel, what do we know about what happened?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Fred. We just got a statement from the Athens-Clarke County police department indicating that this happened at 2:45 early this morning. That car was traveling southbound on this road right behind me just past this curve right here.

And then Fred, for some reason that car left the roadway, struck this power pole right here. We saw utility crews in the last hour or so replacing and fixing this power pole -- and then that car continued, Fred. You can see the debris, the fallen tree limbs where it struck a tree.

And as we make our way over here I'm going to show you the exact spot where this car came to rest continuing past this slope right here and ending at this location right here in front of this apartment complex.

Georgia Bulldogs football player Devin Willock, 20 years old, a recruiting staff member, and two other staff members were all inside of that car at the time of the crash. Willock died here at the scene. That recruiting staff member, Chandler Lacroix, 24 years old, she was taken to the hospital but, Fred, later died.

Now, Willock according to the football roster, he was an offensive lineman from New Milford, New Jersey, a redshirt sophomore. He played every single game this year.

We do have a statement now from the head coach -- the head football coach, Kevin Smart who says, quote, "We are all heartbroken and devastated with the loss of Devin Willock and Chandler Lacroix.

Devin was an outstanding young man in every way and was always smiling. He was a great teammate and a joy to coach. Chandler was a valuable member to our football staff and brought an incredible attitude and energy every single day."

We also have a piece of sound here we want to play for you from Senator Raphael Warnock addressing the deaths during church service with President Biden marking Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Sad news this morning. After winning a national championship again, we're saddened to hear that death and grief has visited the University of Georgia football team. A Georgia football player and a staff member were killed this morning in a car accident. We lift these families in prayer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: And Fred, as you mentioned, just adding to the sadness of this tragic event is the fact just hours prior to the crash the team had just celebrated their national championship victory doing a victory parade right here in Athens, Georgia, a celebration.

In fact, we have video from our CNN affiliate WXIA showing the team just so happy on top of that fire truck to cheering crowds, just so happy. And now to have this devastating and tragic turn of events here ending in the deaths of two members of this football program is just horrible.

And Fred, as far as the two other members who were in that car, part of the football program, they were hurt in the crash, are in stable condition. One had minor injuries and we're learning the other had serious injuries.

As far as the university, they are offering medical and mental health personnel to just help the team in dealing and processing through the grief of what has happened, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Oh, this is so crushing, so devastating for the entire team, the entire community. Man, our hearts are going out to the families.

All right. Thank you so much, Isabel Rosales.

All right. I've got sports anchor Andy Scholes with me here. Our intention, of course, was to talk about the Buffalo Bills and their game with the Miami Dolphins.

[14:04:52] WHITFIELD: But I mean, this feels so personal for so many people. You've gotten to know the team. Here they are celebrating --

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- you know, their second championship. And this is just devastating. I mean how sad for Devin Willock's family and Chandler's family.

SCHOLES: Certainly is. And you know, those players and the whole staff, you know, they are on top of the world. Not only did they win one national championship, they won two in a row.

And you know, after a full day of celebration for it to come down so hard like this, it's going to take some time to get over and it definitely puts a damper on just what should have been such a happy time for the entire school, the entire team. It's just unfortunate.

WHITFIELD: Yes. It really is. I mean we're crushed for all of them.

Meantime, the Buffalo Bills, I mean we're now, you know, outside of a week from you know, hearts -- you know, we're all clutching our hearts for Damar and what took place with that player with the Buffalo Bills, his incredible, miraculous recovery. And now the team is playing again.

SCHOLES: Yes.

WHITFIELD: They're on home turf, but they're playing the Miami Dolphins. You know, an incredible turn of events here, but people are just so excited. Fans are excited.

And then what about for Damar? He's going to be watching the game at a distance but then kind of close, too?

SCHOLES: You know, Fredricka, things were going so well, we were wondering, is Damar Hamlin actually going to show up today, maybe be on the field, maybe have a message? He did let us know shortly before kickoff that he was not going to be in attendance at the game today. He was actually going to be watching at home.

He tweeted this. "My heart is with my guys as they compete today. Supporting from home as I focus on my recovery. Nothing I want more than to be out there with them. LFG. #BillsMafia."

But Hamlin did spend time with the team yesterday according to multiple reports. He was there hanging out with them as they were at the facility. So, you know, all indications are Fredricka, the recovery is still going amazing. He's not in attendance today, but if you were watching the game or you were taking a look at it, you know, there were still 3s everywhere in the stadium, so many jerseys, so many pray for Damar signs.

But it was also a get back to football day for the Buffalo Bills, you know. It was get back to business, their first playoff game against the Dolphins, they're winning 17-0 right now. If they win and then the Bengals beat the Ravens today, the Bills will

play the Ravens next week -- I mean the Bengals I should say. And remember, Bills/Bengals was the game Monday night football two weeks ago where this all went down.

WHITFIELD: Right.

SCHOLES: Maybe that's a moment where Hamlin decides to come back and make an appearance when they're playing the Bengals again. It would be quite the moment.

WHITFIELD: This roller coaster ride is intense, isn't it?

SCHOLES: I'm glad we're all in a happy space right now considering where we were two weeks ago.

WHITFIELD: I am too. All right. Andy Scholes, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

All right. Right now more rain and potentially dangerous flooding as a new wave of severe weather moves through California. About 8 million people are under flood watches. The risk of flooding, much higher now because the ground is too saturated to absorb any more water.

Governor Gavin Newsom is urging residents to prepare for dangerous conditions as President Biden approves an emergency declaration ordering federal aid to help the recovery effort.

The severe weather has killed at least 19 people in recent weeks. Heavy rain has left some communities under water prompting several water rescues, and roads are buckling. There are a lot of problems that they are facing.

CNN's Natasha Chen is live for us in Sonoma County where residents are keeping an eye on the rising water levels, Natasha.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Fred, we're here at a place called Johnson's Beach in Guerneville and this is where the Russian River crested at almost 30 feet about an hour ago according to the National Weather Service.

This is a spot that we've been keeping our eye on because, take a look at this, if you look at that sign right there showing you where the beach is, this is supposed to be a driveway getting to about that sign. And then if you go past the sign, local residents are telling us there's still another about 20 feet of walkway before you get to the beach. And now we are seeing this instead.

Now, of course, everybody here in town has been seeing this river swell and recede and swell and recede in the last couple of weeks given just how much rain they've gotten, storm after storm since about the new year's eve weekend.

Of course as you mentioned there have been a lot of dangerous situations because of this, a lot of deaths because of this. One of the incredible rescues that we saw yesterday was in southern California in laguna hills. laguna hills

Let's show you some video of that. The Orange County Fire Authority shared this video on social media.

[14:09:44]

CHEN: They said that about 3:30 p.m. local time they got a call about someone stranded in a tree as there was a fast-moving river there, and they had multiple crews, multiple swift water rescue teams who went and coordinated, got this person to safety, lifted them to safety. Just an incredible effort to watch.

And we also, of course have seen, you know, roads falling off of a cliff in Pescadero (ph) so we are still hearing of lots of warnings to residents throughout the state. 8 million under a flood watch at one point today, more than 15,000 customers still without power.

And we're going to get more rain in a serious way starting early this evening into tomorrow morning. So there's more to come, Fred.

WHITFIELD: My gosh. Already so dangerous and treacherous and to think it's going to get even worse.

All right. Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

And then there's this dramatic new video appearing to show a Yeti Airlines passenger jet rolling on its side moments before it crashed in central Nepal killing at least 68 people.

Incredible. In addition to the 68 confirmed deaths, four other people are unaccounted for, that's according to the country's aviation authority.

CNN's Vedika Sud is following developments for us right now. So what are authorities saying about the crash? How did this happen?

VEDIKA SUD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, it's been a tragic Sunday for Nepal. What we do know is that this plane crash that you are talking about has been the deadliest in more than three decades for the country.

Now here's what we know. At about 10:30 local time Nepal, this domestic carrier took off from the capital city of Kathmandu for a tourist city called Pokhara. And within 18 minutes of its flight path, It lost contact with the air traffic control and moments later it crashed into a gorge.

Now this city that we're talking about is the second most populated city in Nepal. What the officials are not telling is that 68 bodies of the 72 have been recovered. Four are still missing. Search operations have been called off for the day and will resume Monday morning local time in Nepal. That's when they're going to be looking for the four other bodies.

What we don't know as of now is what caused this crash. But I want to go back to the moment of that video that you were talking about which it appears to be from the city of Pokhara where the crash took place. it appears to be from a terrace of a building that someone's taking it and those are just moments before the crash.

You can see the plane rolling over and this is quite low for the area that it's in. And this is a densely populated area we're talking about. Moments later it's rolling away from the screen and about seconds later we hear a massive explosion.

Now the prime minister of Nepal has, of course, expressed deep condolences over this tragic incident and a five-member team has now been formed to probe the incident, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Vedika Sud, thanks so much in New Delhi.

All right. Still ahead the death toll from a Russian missile strike on an apartment building in Ukraine is rising.

CNN is live from Dnipro next.

[14:13:08]

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WHITFIELD: A heartbreaking scene in Dnipro, Ukraine after an apartment block was hit in a deadly Russian missile strike. A young girl seen right there cleaning up in the rubble of that aftermath.

Ukraine says at least 30 people were killed including a child and at least 73 people injured. Rescue crews are searching for dozens of people who are still missing.

CNN correspondent Fred Pleitgen is at the scene in Dnipro. Fred, what is the latest on the search and rescue efforts?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's still ongoing, Fredricka and I would say, it's almost an apocalyptic scene that we're seeing here at this site of this -- what was a residential building here in Dnipro.

In fact, I'm going to get out of the way so we can actually see that these rescue crews are doing. You can see that on the side of the building, you have those two firefighters who are sort of sifting through something there, standing on the side of the building, putting some of the debris down, making it fall off the side of the building.

All this as other rescue workers are still sifting through the rubble. Now, the latest that we have is that the Ukrainians right now say as of right now 30 people are confirmed to have been killed at this site. But of course, they fear that that number could still rise dramatically.

They say that there are dozens who are still missing. And obviously with every second that passes right now, Fredricka, it is very cold out here and with every second that passes, the chances of finding people alive underneath this are really dwindling by the second as we are watching all of this. Dozens of people also in the hospital as well.

The reason why this strike was so bad, Fredricka, this was part of a barrage of many missile strikes that the Russians conducted over this weekend -- the reason why this one was so bad, the Ukrainians say, is because the Russians used a missile that is designed to destroy aircraft carriers and hit this residential building behind us.

It has a 2,000-pound warhead. It's obviously meant for massive destruction. And when it hit this building, it just completely destroyed the entire structure and the building caved in obviously burying dozens of people underneath it.

Now, we do have to mention that the Russians so far have not commented on the strike specifically. They did mention an action report earlier today that they did conduct strikes. They didn't say anything about this one in particular.

The Ukrainians for their part are calling what you see behind me terrorism and, of course, as you know that over the past couple of months, and really since this war started here in Ukraine, the Ukrainians have been calling specifically for more air defense weapons to prevent cruise missiles like the one that hit this building from wreaking such havoc here on these civilian centers.

But of course, also for more modern weapons in general so that they can turn the tides on the battlefield and expel the Russians from their country.

[14:19:53]

PLEITGEN: Clearly what you're seeing right now is going to make the Ukrainians ask for more of that and, of course, with something like this, it becomes more urgent.

The missile that was used here is one that was designed during the time of the Soviet Union. It's from the '70s or the technology is from the '70s. It's fairly inaccurate. And when you fire it at a big population center, Dnipro is the third largest city in Ukraine, obviously the chance of something like what you're seeing behind me happening is pretty high, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Third largest city in Ukraine. All right. Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much.

All right. Mounting questions meantime in this country for President Joe Biden on the classified documents that were found at his private residence. The latest on that investigation next.

[14:20:35]

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WHITFIELD: President Biden is facing new questions today following Saturday's announcement from the White House that five more pages of classified documents were discovered at Biden's home in Delaware. Those documents were turned over to the Justice Department just hours after it launched a special counsel investigation into the matter.

It brings the total number of classified records found in Biden's home or his former private office in Washington, D.C. to approximately now 20.

With me now to talk more about all of this is John Dean. He is a CNN contributor and a former Nixon White House counsel. So good to see you, John.

So help a lot of people understand in the cases of people, high- ranking people, transitioning in or out of office, is it typical that government documents might get mixed in with personal effects?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's not typical but it does happen. In fact, I know a case recently where a former Nixon aide found himself with a cache of highly classified documents. He shared them with a reporter. The next thing he knew, the FBI was on his doorstep.

So it can happen decades after a presidency. But it's not the norm and it's certainly something staff generally handles. There are procedures, there are regulations, and most presidencies comply with that.

WHITFIELD: And because in, you know, the few cases in which you are familiar with it happening, is it largely because there are other people who are handling packaging, boxing up documents and perhaps that's why sometimes there's some oversight, or whether it's oversight intentional or unintentional?

DEAN: Well, sometimes it's intentional by the principal himself. The case of Sandy Berger (ph) who went to the Archives to retrieve a document, tried to steal it, got himself in a heap of trouble for doing it. Didn't know there were surveillance cameras watching him.

There was General Petraeus, the head of the CIA which shared some of his information, classified information with a woman who was writing a book who happened to be somebody he was having a relationship with. They both had sanctions as a result of those aggravating circumstances.

If it's accidental and unintentional and just sort of a mishap of the chaos of leaving a high office, then nothing happens. And those are not infrequent, but they're not frequent because one of the things -- this whole episode with Trump and Biden will do -- it's going to shine light on this problem.

And hopefully future presidents and their staff are going to be much more compliant with the regulations that are very important for national security.

WHITFIELD: So then knowing what we know or not knowing enough, what are some of the questions that you have now about this new batch, or that it's been revealed that there are five more classified documents that have been discovered in -- pages rather, five more pages -- in the former president's -- the former vice president's private residence? DEAN: Ever since the Trump probable cause subpoena went after his

material and the search warrant, it's been pretty clear that this is not a scandal anymore. This is a criminal proceeding that's being investigated.

The Biden situation right now strikes me as a scandal. It's not been well handled by the media or the press people and the communications people. They should have gotten more out and as much out as they could have and been very candid with what they did and didn't know.

Where are there are now -- these things are dribbling out and some of the criticisms are legitimate, most of them are not. For example, that the president should have released this information before the election. Well, that wasn't even possible. It hadn't been referred by the attorney general until November 14th to the special counsel, preliminary special counsel John Lausch he had investigating it.

So there are lots of unanswered questions about the Biden situation. We don't have many facts. As I say, I think it's merely a scandal at this stage and not a criminal proceeding.

WHITFIELD: And then, you know, the administration says it has been cooperating with the Justice Department by voluntarily handing things over, also saying they refrained from saying anything more because it's an ongoing DOJ investigation.

So I wonder how all of this might impact the way in which this special counsel proceeds, meaning this kind of cooperation the White House says it is carrying out, how does that impact or influence how the special counsel proceeds?

[14:29:50]

DEAN: Well, we have two special counsel, of course. We have one looking at Trump and now one looking at Biden. I think they're going to pretty much operate, if they follow the book, independently in their own silos, so to speak, and do their own investigations and find out if there's been wrongdoing. If there's been criminal intent, if there have been aggravated negligence of some sort.

So, I -- I don't think they're going to coordinate with each other and I think the White House -- the distinguishing factor right now appears to be the Biden White House is doing everything they can to cooperate, whereas the Trump -- Donald Trump and his team did everything they could to foil the efforts to recover the documents. And that's -- that's the principal distinction. It's a big distinction.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Very big.

All right. John Dean, good to see you. Thanks so much.

DEAN: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, the Howard University men's basketball team is joining the fight to protect Black maternal health. I'll talk to the team's head coach and the team's captain about their plans for the ML day service.

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[18:35:15]

WHITFIELD: Earlier today, President Joe Biden spoke at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta where civil rights doctor and leader Martin Luther King Jr. served as pastor until his assassination in 1968. And this makes Biden the first sitting president to deliver a Sunday sermon from the historic church.

From the pulpit, he praised King's legacy and addressed several issues including civil and voting rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a time of choosing, direct choices we have. Are we a people who will choose democracy over autocracy? Couldn't ask that question 15 years ago, where we thought democracy was settled. Not for African Americans, but democracy as an institutional structure was settled.

But it's not. It's not. We have to choose a community over chaos. Are we, the people, going to choose love over hate?

These are the vital questions of our time and the reason why I'm here as your president. I believe Dr. King's life and legacy show us the way, and we should pay attention. I really do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The current pastor, Democratic Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock, invited Biden to speak on what would have been King's 94th birthday today.

All right. The fight to protect black maternal health has a new advocate, the Howard University's men's basketball team. And today, for their MLK day of service, the team held an event that focused on combating racism and disparity for black mothers. They partnered with the D.C.-based Black birthing advocacy organization called Mamatoto Village to help package pregnancy care kits.

Black women in the U.S. are three times more likely than white women to die of pregnancy related complications, according to the CDC.

And with me now to discuss is head coach for the Howard University men's basketball team, Kenneth Blakeney. Also, guard and team captain, Jelani Williams.

Good to see both of you.

KENNETH BLAKENEY, HEAD COACH, HOWARD UNIVERSITY MEN'S BASKETBALL: Thank you for having us.

JELANI WILLIAMS, TEAM CAPTAIN, HOWARD UNIVERSITY MEN'S BASKETBALL: Good to be here. Thank you. WHITFIELD: Wonderful.

Jelani, tell me how you are helping Black births today on this Martin Luther King Jr. birthday.

WILLIAMS: Yes. We've been at mama toto village all day today. For the past four hours packaging pregnancy kits, lactation kits, just different -- sorting through clothes, just different things to provide support for local mothers in D.C.

WHITFIELD: What are some of the things in the kits?

WILLIAMS: Things like diapers. We wrapped about 8,000 diapers, lactation cookies, breast pumps, breast pads, just different things like onesies, small clothes, different things like that, so that they can support their family and, you know, give support to local mothers in D.C.

WHITFIELD: That's wonderful. I know it's greatly appreciated.

I mean, Coach, you know, as a Howard grad myself, I'm familiar with the H.U. motto of truth and service. But how did this come about? How did the team decide on this specific cause to support and to serve?

BLAKENEY: Well, every year we have a social justice project that we would love to work on, and this year's initiative we put to our players and asked them what social justice initiative would they like to do. And Black maternal health was the issue we chose, or they chose, and we went and had to get very educated about it. We worked with the Congressional Black Caucus and we worked with Dr. Fatima Goss Graves and got educated on the subject. And we're here today doing our day of service at the Mamatoto Village.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

So, Jelani, I mean, since deciding to focus on this issue, what have you learned or gained from this experience, and what are you going to pass on to some of your fellow students who are not on the team who were not hands on like you were today and have been but just need to be enlightened? What will you share?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think the biggest thing I've learned our country is really behind on this issue. As I was getting into the facts, some of it is pretty staggering. We're one of 13 countries in the world where pregnancy related deaths are actually on the rise.

And so for us as a developed nation we like to believe ourselves to be the best country in the world, you know, to fail Black women the way we have failed them for X amount of years now is definitely something that's been jarring for me, is something that, you know, I try to make a difference in.

[14:40:13]

And that's part of what we were doing today, try to make, you know, an impact whether it be big or small. For me just trying to learn more about it and continue to get educated and continue to share the message and then try and put action behind it and do as much as I can to support Black mothers.

WHITFIELD: Before, Jelani, being involved here, what did you know about, you know, maternal health care? I mean, what was your -- you know, what was your idea of what was happening in this country?

WILLIAMS: I mean, as far as -- I've heard statistics around, you know, Black women and Black mothers in particular being more likely to die or have pregnancy complications rather than their white counterparts or people of different races, but as you dive more into it, you realize that there's even deeper issues directly where you are. In D.C., Black mothers are four times more likely than the national average to pass during pregnancy or in postpartum.

So, the more I learned about it, I got more educated on the statistics and they're staggering, to be honest.

WHITFIELD: I mean, Coach, I know you have to be so proud of Jelani, of your entire team, for really putting their entire heart into this and being able to be advocates for birthing moms, black birthing families, and to have embraced a topic that many of them clearly were probably not that familiar with but now, like Jelani, sounding like an expert, an expert advocate on the topic.

BLAKENEY: Absolutely. Extremely proud of our young men and it goes along a long line of legacy of students that have gone to Howard, that have advocated for social justice throughout our country and throughout the time since Howard has been established.

So, I'm extremely proud of them, and we stand on the shoulders of giants from VP Harris to Thurgood Marshall and alums like yourself. So, we're extremely humbled and proud we had an opportunity to spend this day of service and to give back to our community.

WHITFIELD: Always proud of my fellow Bisons.

Coach Kenneth Blakeney, Jelani Williams, good to see you. Great conversation and thank you for doing the work that you're doing.

BLAKENEY: Thank you so much.

WILLIAMS: Thanks for having us.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

All right. Still ahead, you might remember the incredible story of a mechanic who jumped into action and then saved dozens of lives during that historic and deadly Buffalo snowstorm? It happened just last month. Well, this hero was praised for all of his actions, and he has been given a once-in-a-lifetime gift. My interview with him, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:28] WHITFIELD: Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani was hailed a hero after leading the country after the 9/11 attacks, and now, he is facing a litany of legal challenges. The final two episodes of the CNN original series, "Giuliani: What Happened to America's Mayor?" airs tonight and takes a revealing look at Giuliani's rise and fall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a time when he got emotional but I never heard him say he's scared, you know?

RUDY GIULIANI, THEN-NYC MAYOR: Put your mask on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some guys get in a position and they step up, and I think that's how he was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the situation right now?

GIULIANI: The situation is that two airplanes have attacked apparently -- what? All right, let's go north then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They might be afraid, but they overcome it because they're trying to help other people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining us now, the director of the series, John Marks.

John, so good to see you.

JOHN MARKS, DIRECTOR, "GIULIANI: WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA'S MAYOR?": Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: So what happened to Rudy Giuliani? I mean, that's a question a lot of people have been asking over the past several years. At what point did you decide to dive in and turn this into a series?

MARKS: Well, I had watched Giuliani's trajectory over all these years and had always been fascinated in kind of what had become of him and the choices he made. And when I got the opportunity to actually dig in, roll up my sleeves, with a great team of journalists and producers to figure this out, how to tell this story, I think what really most intrigued me was the sense of, you know, there are certain stories we know the ending -- I'm sorry, we know the beginning but we don't know how the story ends. That was kind of the classic narrative.

But in this case, really is a question of not being so clear on how it all began. You know, we've been inundated with images and headlines in one crisis after another for the last few years, but a lot of people really don't know just how kind of amazing, how singular his earlier career was. I mean, this is a guy who became a household name as a mayor, you know, and on a single day, he had done a lot of stuff before to get him in that position.

But there was a sense about Giuliani 20 years ago that he was a truly singular figure in American public life, as someone who had become this incredible figure without being sort of elected to a national office or anything, he was iconic.

[14:50:08]

You know, he was knighted. He was a "Time" Person of the Year. He was America's mayor, dubbed by Oprah Winfrey.

So the line that connected that person who had risen to that position through a bunch of other successes that people know even less about to who he is now, that's a kind of -- that's an amazing challenge. And that's really what grabbed me.

WHITFIELD: Right, and amazing, too, then because you helped zero in on these incredible contrasts of that apex that you mentioned in terms of how he handled 9/11. How he was a leader. And then the depths, you know, of his decline in terms of his public persona around 1/6.

I mean, how do you -- how do you help people, I guess, see these contrasting figures really encompassing one individual?

MARKS: I know. It is not easy.

But I would say a couple things. One is that these big days, you know, these calendar moments with which he's associated, each of them in a way paints only a partial picture. So this idea that he was one thing on 9/11 and became something totally different on 1/6 is a little bit of an illusion.

There were always elements of Giuliani's leadership and his character even before 9/11 and a lot of people knew about this before 9/11 that were, you know, somewhat troubling. He had an edgy personality. His leadership style was kind of tough and abrasive.

WHITFIELD: Right, as a mayor and prosecutor. Uh-huh.

MARKS: As a mayor and as a prosecutor. And, you know, there were troubling cases of police brutality under his watch even after he cleaned up the city. There was always kind of this shadow to his record before 9/11. And 9/11, while it changed -- transformed his image, it didn't change the fact that there were these other things that were there.

I think as time went on, as we get towards 1/6 and the 20 intervening years past, one of the key things that happens is a lot of people who were around him, whether those were his wives, his ex-wives, whether it was a close front like Peter Powers who was also adviser who passed away in those years, a lot of people who gave him advice and surrounded him and modulated some of his behavior were no longer there. So, he kind of -- he sort of went into one part of his leadership style, if you will.

WHITFIELD: It's so complicated but you so succinctly tell the story, and we look forward to this back to back episodes tonight.

John Marks, thank you so much -- beginning at 9:00 right here on CNN. (COMMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:06]

WHITFIELD: The good vibes out of Buffalo, New York, continue this weekend, this time, for a local hero. You might recall back in December, there was a huge deadly snow storm that swept across the Northeast, and at the time, we also reported on a mechanic who actually helped save more than 20 people in the midst of that storm because he broke into a school to try to put people in a safe place.

Well, now, guess what? That superhero is on his way to the Super Bowl. The Buffalo Bills gifted Jay Withey with two tickets to the big game and they were delivered by none other than Bills legend Thurman Thomas.

And joining me to discuss all of this is the hometown hero, Jay Withey. There he is with a bunch of his friends at a tailgate party there for the Bills/Dolphins game today.

Hey, guys. Braving the cold weather, but that's no big thing with the snow on the ground. How do you feel? I know you're pumped up for the Bills as well. How do you feel about this Super Bowl?

JAY WITHEY, HELPED SAVE PEOPLE DURING BLIZZARD: We're all feeling great. Feels like a Bills win today.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, you have a lot to be excited about. I mean, the fact that you helped save so many lives, at least 20 people. Tell me about what your impulse was at the moment to do that, to make into the school, to help people out.

WITHEY: It was like survival. You know, you get to that kind of situation. You have to think about yourself, think about others. And you know, just a matter of survival and just doing the right thing and being respectful.

WHITFIELD: Tell me about that sense of the feeling of family there in buffalo. You know, we saw it. You know, with Damar Hamlin, how Buffalo really came together after his cardiac arrest and the prayers and all of that. That was on display.

You displayed it in a different way by saving people. Tell me about what it is about the town of Buffalo that makes you all feel the way you do.

WITHEY: Buffalo is a city of good neighbors and great neighbors actually. I don't know if it's something in the water over here, but we're all just a big family. Everyone sticks together. And we're resilient. You can't put us down.

WHITFIELD: That's fantastic. That is on display. You said today, you're feeling good, you're feeling like a big win for the Buffalo Bills. This is a big day for Buffalo, too, and people's expectations of Damar Hamlin.

What are your thoughts about what might happen today at the Bills/Dolphins game?

WITHEY: I think we're going to squish the fish today. With Damar and with the storm, with everything, you know, you can beat us Buffalonians down, but you'll never stop us.

I think -- I think this is all coming together as a big story that buffalo is a city of good neighbors and we're unbeatable. You know, we're just a different breed over here.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, Jay Withey, very fun chat with him. Have fun going to the Super Bowl.

Thanks, everybody, for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

The "CNN NEWSROOM" continues with Jim Acosta right now.