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UGA Football Player and Staffer Killed After Championship Celebration; Food Watches Remain in Place in California; New York City Mayor Eric Adams Visits El Paso, Texas; Russian Strike in Dnipro Kills 30, Injures Dozens; Five More Pages of Classified Material Found at Biden's Residence; President Biden Calls Current Moment in U.S. History a Time of Choosing; MLK's "I Have a Dream" Speech Delivered Almost 60 Years Ago; Facebook Considers Allowing Trump Back on Platform; "Giuliani: What Happened to America's Mayor?" Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 15, 2023 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

WALLACE: With Idina Menzel, and a sit-down with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi here on CNN next Sunday night. And you can stream the full episodes with this week's guests, Ina Garten and Andy Cohen, any time you want on HBO Max.

Thank you for watching. Good night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Georgia Bulldogs football player Devin Willock died here at the scene just hours prior to the crash. The team had just celebrated their national championship victory.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's almost an apocalyptic scene that we're seeing here at this site, what was a residential building here Dnipro.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Hang in there.

PLEITGEN: With every second that passes, the chances of finding people alive are dwindling.

KRISTI LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: A Yeti Airlines jetliner crashed on Sunday in Nepal.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Within 18 minutes of its flight path it lost contact with the air traffic control and moments later it crashed into a gorge.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Biden is here at Ebenezer Baptist Church.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a time of choosing. Dr. King's life and legacy show us the way.

ALVAREZ: You can't ignore the political undertones even as the conversation has been so dominated by these classified documents. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we begin this hour with a heartbreaking example of how quickly life can take an awful turn. Just hours after the University of Georgia held this joyous parade to celebrate their team's winning college football's national championship, one of their players is killed in a car crash. 20-year-old Devin Willock died at the scene. The driver, 24-year-old football staff member, Chandler LeCroy, died at the hospital.

CNN's Isabel Rosales joins us now from the University of Georgia in Athens.

Isabel, how is the community reacting to this tragedy?

ROSALES: Pamela, this loss is a gut punch to the community. Some students and fans coming out outside of the stadium here, leaving flowers and writing on this sign right behind me, 77. That was his number.

Here's what we know so far from the Athens-Clark County Police Department. All of this unfolding early in the morning, 2:45 a.m., where their car for some reason left the road, striking two power poles, snapping the power lines in half, and continuing on to hit trees, going over a small hill, and landing, crashing, and finally resting by the side of an apartment complex.

Willock and LeCroy, they died from their injuries. Two other football program members that were inside of that car, they have survived, one with minor injuries, another with serious injuries.

From the football roster, we know that Willock, he was from New Jersey, an offensive lineman, a red shirt sophomore, and he played every game this year. And take a look at this video of the team just yesterday, hours before that crash, celebrating the national championship victory. So many people out there, fans, the student community cheering them on, and this victory at a parade here in Athens.

Now I spoke with a Bulldogs fan who was at that parade route and came out to pay his respects at the scene of the crash. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL DEWITT, GEORGIA FAN: I hope that this team next year will just dedicate their season to this guy because he played his heart out this year. He may not have been, you know, a top athlete, like the quarterback, but he was -- it was a family. And to see the family gathering today or to hear about them gathering today as one makes Bulldog nation know that they were very, very close.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ROSALES: Yes, and Pamela, look at this. On Twitter, the grandfather of 7-year-old Camden Gonzalez, sharing these pictures of his grandson meeting Willock, fist bumping him, and the player even allowing him to wear his championship ring, that massive ring on his tiny fist. That grandpa saying that his grandson had just the most amazing time talking to him. He was star struck. It made his day -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yes. And that little boy will never forget that interaction, wearing the ring. What a beautiful moment just before this tragedy.

Isabel Rosales, thank you.

Well, heavy rainfall, wind gusts, mudslides, and snow all part of a deadly multi-week weather system still punishing California right now. Flood watches remain in place for around eight million people in the central part of the state, including the bay area, until Monday afternoon. At least 19 people have died and California's governor is warning of more weather disasters.

CNN's Natasha Chen has more from Sonoma County, California.

[20:05:03]

NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, we are expecting the rain to come again quite soon, but right now here is what the Johnson's Beach looks like right at the Russian River here in Guerneville.

This is supposed to be a beach, as the name suggests. This is a driveway that's now completely covered. And if you look past that sign right there where it says no life guard on duty, local residents tell us that there's actually a walkway for another 20 feet as well as an entire parking lot before you actually reach the beach. So we've seen residents come up to the water's edge, taking pictures because one person said she's lived here 30 years, and it's just very intrigued to see the water come up this far.

We also saw someone trying to kayak here, though I'm not sure that's recommended. There are still city and county officials really warning residents to be careful of threats like mudslides like we saw in Belmont yesterday. And that's on the peninsula. You can see these pictures from Belmont Police showing part of a hillside coming down into a neighborhood. That's the type of threat that's still very possible, given the amount of moisture that is saturated in the ground and in these rivers, with more rain coming very soon through the morning hours.

We're also expecting some high wind gusts as well. There are counties south of here who have issued wind advisories. Meanwhile, there are still thousands of customers without power and millions of people throughout the state under a flood watch.

Pamela, back to you.

BROWN: Natasha Chen, thank you very much.

Well, since last spring, tens of thousands of migrants have been sent from the Texas border to cities like Washington, D.C., New York, and Chicago. And this week end, New York Mayor Eric Adams made a trip to the border himself, even as he issues an emergency aid request to his state for help. He wants help from the feds, too.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino joins us. Gloria, what is the mayor saying? What else?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, we actually just heard from the mayor. He had a press briefing along the mayor of El Paso, Oscar Leeser. And he is asking for coordination.

This has been the consistent message from New York City Mayor Eric Adams in the past few months. He has expressed frustration that Texas and other states that are bussing migrants to New York are not coordinating with the city in order to tell them that people are coming so that migrants who are seeking asylum can be connected to the proper resources. But the crisis has really ballooned over the last few months.

Thousands of asylum seekers have been arriving here in New York City, and not just here to New York but also places like Chicago and Philadelphia and Washington, D.C. The mayor saying that he wants to convene with other mayors from around the country to come up with a strategy to deal with what he says is a humanitarian crisis.

Listen to a little bit of what he had to say just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: I'm extremely disappointed of what we have done to the cities of this country and the impression that we're not seeing a level of urgency of getting this issue resolved. I believe that we must appoint a FEMA leader that is going to come in and look at this and coordinate our response. It is wrong for El Paso to have a response, for New York to have a response. We cannot have these disjointed responses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, Pam, as you mentioned, he has asked for New York state to provide funding in addition to the federal government. But today the mayor said he ultimately believes it is up to FEMA to cover the cost of the crisis. He says this is very much an emergency situation and like other disasters that FEMA would respond to, they should be the agency in tasked of trying to resolve this crisis. A very tall order considering this is a multi-city operation and the politics around all of this are heated. And the White House, the federal government, has yet to respond -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Gloria Pazmino, thank you.

Ukraine's president is pleading for more heavy weapons. And the NATO secretary general said Sunday that they are on the way. And that includes a new U.K. commitment to provide the first heavy tanks President Zelenskyy has been asking for. On the ground in Ukraine, emergency crews in Dnipro are combing

through the rubble of an apartment building destroyed by a Russian missile. But they're now shifting from rescue to recovery mode.

CNN's Scott McLean is in Kyiv.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The death toll from that deadly Russian missile strike is very likely to rise because officials say that there are still dozens of people, perhaps 30 or 40, who remain unaccounted for and potentially buried under the rubble. Officials, though, say that their chances at this stage of survival are minimal.

[20:10:05]

Part of the problem is that the missile appeared to come down vertically, meaning it landed all the way in the basement of this building. And so there's no way for rescue crews to get in from the bottom of the building and work their way up to try to find any potential survivors. The other obvious issue is the fact that it is winter in Ukraine and the temperatures are below freezing.

And yet despite all of that, rescue workers have managed to pull people out alive. The most recent was a 27-year-old woman who was trapped under the rubble, though they say that she is now fighting for her life in a hospital from severe hypothermia.

The Russian military acknowledged the barrage of missile strikes on Saturday. They say that this was a success, that all of the intended targets were hit. The mayor of Dnipro doesn't think this apartment building was actually the target. He thinks that it was a thermal power station across the river, which makes sense, considering that the type of missile that the Ukrainians say was used is not an accurate one.

Western military analysts say it has an accuracy radius of only about 550 yards. It is the same type of missile that was used in a missile strike on a shopping mall in Kremenchuk last year that killed 18 people. The intended target in that case was apparently a facility a few yards away used to repair military vehicles.

The biggest problem that the Ukrainians have with respect to this weapon is that they have no way to shoot it down. Of the more than 200, they say have been fired at this territory, not a single one has been shot down -- Pam.

BROWN: Scott McLean, thank you.

Devastating news out of Nepal. A commercial plane carrying 72 passengers crashed during a short flight from the capital. At least 68 of the 72 people on board are confirmed dead in what appears to be the country's worst air disaster in 30 years. The cause of this crash is not clear, but footage circulating on social media shows the twin engine turbo prop turning on its side moments before slamming into a deep gorge. Nepal's government has declared Monday a national public day of mourning to honor those victims. Well, the White House is scrambling tonight after more classified

documents were found at President Biden's home in Delaware. How serious will this become?

I'll ask former Republican congressman and new CNN political commentator, Adam Kinzinger, up next.

And then later, the president at the pulpit. Biden's message at a historic church where Martin Luther King Jr. was once a pastor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:47]

BROWN: Well, the fallout continues tonight for President Biden and the White House staff over the mishandling of classified information and lack of transparency.

CNN senior political commentator Adam Kinzinger joins us now with more.

So, Adam, Reuters' Jeff Mason says this probe, quote, "has neutralized Democrats' ability to target former President Trump." Former Obama adviser David Axelrod calls it a huge gift to Trump. What's your take?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think they're right. It's a huge gift. So there's the legal side and there's the political side. The legal side will be -- the legal side can do what it wants. They'll be fair. They'll go through, you know, the Donald Trump thing, the Joe Biden thing, and go after it the right way.

Politically, basically this is taken out, I think, almost any ability for Democrats to go after the former president on this issue. Still -- there is still a January 6th thing that happened, which I think is important to keep in mind. And it's really -- the other thing is that I think one of the biggest problems has been the continuing revelation of new documents. And they have not done a good job of putting together how that happened. They're continuing finding new batches. Did they happen upon it? And I think politically it's pretty bad at the moment.

BROWN: Yes, when they released the first statement talking about the batch in November, it failed to mention the second batch that was found in December. So then reporters found out about it. They released another statement. So there are certainly fair questions about a lack of transparency from the Biden White House.

But let's listen to what House Oversight chairman James Comer said to me in November regarding the classified documents found at Trump's residence in Mar-a-Lago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): I don't know much about that. That's not something that we've requested information just to see what was going on because I don't know what documents were at Mar-a-Lago. So, you know, that's something we're just waiting to see what comes out of that.

BROWN: But is it fair to say that investigation will be a priority?

COMER: That will not be a priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: OK. So that was about Trump. And now this is what he said earlier today about the Biden investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMER: At the end of the day, my biggest concern isn't the classified documents to be honest with you. My concern is how there's such a discrepancy in how former President Trump was treated by raiding Mar- a-Lago, by getting the security cameras, by taking pictures of documents on the floor, by going through Melania's closet, versus Joe Biden, they're like, OK, your personal lawyers who don't have security clearance, yes, they can go through. They can just keep looking and keep looking and, you know, determine whatever's there. That's not equal treatment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What do you make of that?

KINZINGER: Well, first off, thank you for keeping that and playing it because I think this is very important for people to see is frankly the hypocrisy that exists. And secondarily, it's a very different situation. I think a lot of people forget that Mar-a-Lago was raided only after repeated engagements with the government. They said we know you have this. They know they've moved it. They've said we don't have it. And that's what led to this.

So it's a different situation, but, as Mr. Comer is doing and doing quite well, if you throw enough stuff on the wall, it creates a lot of confusion.

[20:20:09]

But I think the bottom line is anybody, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, talking about this issue, you should be consistent with what you said about Donald Trump as well. There are differences. You can note that. But this is one of the things that drives me and I think a lot of Americans crazy is open, obvious, and almost a disregard for whether or not something you say is not consistent with what you say with a different party.

Just be consistent, uphold the law. We can't have classified information out there. And investigate Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

BROWN: Right. And that was -- I remember when Republicans came out so strongly defending Trump at that time. It was notable. And then here you are in a situation where the same thing is happening with President Biden in terms of classified documents being not where they should be, and suddenly they've had to change their tune, right? And so it is interesting and important to note.

You've had some pretty dire things to say about the future of your party, especially after the speaker fight. And I'm curious, have you ever considered switching parties to become an independent?

KINZINGER: I mean, those are kinds of thoughts that frankly go through my head all the time about, you know, what is the future of the Republican Party? What's -- you know, how do I identify when it comes to the politics of this? I'm still of the belief that, look, I think even though things are still continuing to go off the rails with the Republican Party, there are signs with the lessening of Donald Trump's influence, although I think people have learned Trumpism, there is signs that some of this may eventually burn itself out.

And so I'll never say I quit considering it because for me -- and I think this is how most Americans feel -- is, like, you just want to be represented by somebody. In my case, the Republican Party has certainly felt like it's left me. I haven't changed my policies, my beliefs or anything. I just believe in truth and I believe in being committed to truth and consistency and honesty. And that's where I feel a little homeless in the Republican Party sometimes.

BROWN: But you still identify as a Republican. What would be the final straw for you?

KINZINGER: I think it's like when it happens, that'll be the final straw when you know. You know, look, it's -- we are still a country represented by two political parties generally. Obviously there's minor parties. And I think the Republican Party still deserves a fight for the soul of it. But, you know, at the same time, I think most Americans feel like I'm kind of tired of voting for lesser of two evils. And so right now I'm enjoying not being in Congress, and I'll continue to evaluate that with myself every day.

BROWN: Let's talk about a Republican that is in Congress right now. And that would be the New York Congressman George Santos who has lied about his identity. The voters put him in office based on an identity that he made up. And we're getting more and more evidence of everything he made up, it seems like, by the day.

Here's the latest example. This was a radio interview he did where he fabricated playing on the volleyball team, going to Baruch College and getting surgery. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): You know what's funny? I actually went to school on a volleyball scholarship.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did?

SANTOS: I did, yes. When I was in Baruch, we were the number one volleyball team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you graduate from Baruch? Did you graduate from there? SANTOS: Yes, I did. I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So did I. So did I.

SANTOS: Oh, very cool. Great school. Great institution. Very liberal but very good --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

SANTOS: Look, I sacrificed both my knees and got very nice knee replacements from playing volleyball. That's how serious I took the game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Again, a lie. Your thoughts? And he's still serving, by the way. And Kevin McCarthy --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Oh, go ahead. I just want to note to our viewers, he is still serving. Kevin McCarthy has said he has no plans to, you know, ask him to resign, but go ahead. Although other Republicans have.

KINZINGER: Yes. I mean, look, Kevin can't ask him to resign because Kevin needs his vote as it is right now. I really worry about the Republicans' ability to pass anything. I worry about the country's ability to pass something through the debt limit.

This guy is not just expanding his resume, he's not lying about some things. I mean, truthfully, he is a total, utter fraud. And his election in front of the people of New York was fraudulent. He presented himself as somebody he wasn't.

Look, I don't think he -- I don't think he can make it two years in Congress just personally. I mean, Congress can kick him out, by the way. Congress can certainly censure him.

BROWN: I think it has to be a big majority. Right.

KINZINGER: Yes, yes, it has to be a big majority. And I think if Kevin came out and was for it, they would do it. But Kevin McCarthy needs his vote. I feel bad for the 700,000 people in New York that he represents that he utterly, absolutely, completely lied to.

BROWN: So, then, OK. So clearly you have issues with him. But what is your message to Kevin McCarthy then about this?

KINZINGER: Well, I mean, look, if I was there, I'd tell Kevin we have to ask him to leave. We have to ask him to resign.

[20:25:05]

Look, his own party back in New York has said we want him out. I think, you know, if Kevin came out and said this in the leadership of the GOP and the House said it, he would -- maybe he still wouldn't resign, but I certainly think the pressure would be there.

Look, my party has a problem with telling the truth. This is not helping that reputation. And that's what I'd be advising. But it's obvious he's not going to do it because he needs that vote.

BROWN: Adam Kinzinger, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Welcome to CNN, by the way.

KINZINGER: You bet. Thanks.

BROWN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:04]

BROWN: President Biden this morning delivered a sermon drawing on the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the president of the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta where the civil rights icon served as pastor.

CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez joins us now.

Priscilla, what was Biden's message ahead of tomorrow's holiday honoring MLK?

ALVAREZ: Well, President Biden drew a direct line between Dr. King's legacy and what he called the soul of the nation. Now President Biden became the first sitting president to deliver remarks at a Sunday service at Ebenezer Baptist Church, the same church, as you mentioned, where Dr. King was a pastor. And President Biden took a moment to reflect on the state of the country today, saying that it is at a critical juncture and at an inflection point.

Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The battle for the soul of this nation is perennial. It's a constant struggle. It's a constant struggle between hope and fear, kindness and cruelty, justice and injustice. Against those who traffic in racism, extremism, and insurrection. A battle fought on battlefields and bridges from courthouses and ballot boxes to pulpits in protests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, President Biden also spoke about economic justice and civil rights. All of this, of course, in a state that is critical if he chooses to run in 2024. This is a state that Biden narrowly flipped in 2022, buoyed by black voters. Of course, this is a moment in which his advisers are considering what his political future will be.

And to that end, Pamela, all of this came against the backdrop of that trickle of disclosures over the last week about documents found in his private spaces, particularly his residence in Wilmington as well as a former private office after he was vice president that had classified markings, questions that will bleed into the week -- Pamela.

BROWN: No doubt. Priscilla Alvarez, thank you very much.

Well, it has been almost 60 years since King delivered his "I Have a Dream" speech from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. And tonight ahead of the MLK holiday, we want to examine what civil rights progress has been made since then and the work that remains.

Kelisha Graves joins us. She is the chief research education and programs officer at the King Center in Atlanta.

Great to have you on the show. First off, how important was it for President Biden to deliver this sermon today in that church?

KELISHA GRAVES, CHIEF RESEARCH EDUCATION AND PROGRAMS OFFICER, THE KING CENTER: It was -- thank you for having me, Pamela, first of all. It was critically important for President Biden to make remarks from Ebenezer Baptist Church. In as much as he is the president, he sets the tone for the nation and certainly continues to ensure that the United States has an optimal position in the world. And so it was absolutely a significant and remarkable for the president to make those remarks today.

BROWN: This past Friday, a group of D.C. public school students paid tribute by reading lines from the "I Have a Dream" speech at the exact spot where MLK delivered it. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no. We are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not a monster that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom have left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: How do you think those words resonate with the younger generation?

GRAVES: They continue to resonate, and I'm so happy to hear those young people articulate the words of Dr. King. In fact, if we reflect back on the Civil Rights Movement, we think about the Birmingham Campaign, young people really provided the engine for the movement, if you will. We think about the founding of the King Center with Mrs. Coretta Scott King and her emphasis around education and training, which was designed, if you will, to empower a generation of change makers. It's part of the work that we continue to do at the King Center,

empowering change makers through the power of non-violence. So it was absolutely wonderful to hear those young people articulate those words.

BROWN: A core concept in King's "Dream" speech is racial integration. I mean, look at this. Here is a U.S. Census chart showing real median household income by race, 1967 to 2000. It shows black still at the bottom. Where are we as a society with that 60 years later after that speech?

GRAVES: Yes. What I'll say is that there's still more work to be done. And Martin Luther King Jr.'s philosophy and methodology of non- violence is center to this. Dr. King's ultimate vision, the crux of his vision, if you will, was the vision of the beloved community. And he saw non-violence as the prism for which or the pathway through which we would arrive at the beloved community. So it continues -- so non-violence really is central to the change that we want to see in our society.

[20:35:05]

It's significant for policy reform. It's significant for policy reform at all levels.

BROWN: What do you think he would say as he looked at society today in terms of the progress that still needs to be made?

GRAVES: Yes, I think Dr. King would reflect gingerly on the progress that we've made. I think a quote from Mrs. Coretta Scott King is most appropriate here. Mrs. King said that freedom is never really won, that struggle is a never-ending process, that you earn it and you win it in every generation. And so there's redemption and the struggle. But I think Dr. King would still look on the current moment and appreciate the changes that have been made but also understand that there are still more to be done, and again, empowering people to make that change.

The theme of the King holiday this year is set by the King Center is "It Starts with Me." And that's an important concept because it suggests that the work of justice, right, the eradication of the triple evils that Dr. King talked about -- racism, poverty, and war -- that those things cannot be delegated elsewhere. But if we absorb the notion that it starts with me, that helps us to know that we have a responsibility in all of this.

BROWN: That's well said. Dr. Kelisha Graves, thank you so much.

A tough choice looms for Facebook's parent company. Should Donald Trump be allowed to return to the platform? We're going to look at some of the factors in that decision, we're expecting any day now, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:34] BROWN: Just in to CNN, a University of Alabama basketball player is charged with capital murder. 21-year-old Darius Miles is facing charges in connection with the shooting in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, early this morning. Police tell us he is one of two men arrested and charged in this case. And the university released this statement.

"First and foremost, we extend our deepest sympathies to the family and friends of the victim from last night's incident. We were made aware of the recent charge against student athlete Darius Miles, and he is no longer a member of the Alabama men's basketball team. Athletics in conjunction with the university is fully cooperating with this investigation."

Well, any day now Facebook's parent company is expected to announce whether it will allow former President Donald Trump back on to the platform. CNN spoke with two former Facebook officials, one a Democrat, the other a Republican.

As CNN's Donie O'Sullivan shows us they have special insight into the type of debate that will ultimately lead to a decision.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): So Facebook has a big decision.

KATIE HARBATH, FACEBOOK'S FORMER PUBLIC POLICY DIRECTOR: She has to go first.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Facebook is about to make one of the most consequential decisions in the company's history. Should it let former President Trump back on its platforms?

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: In general, I do not think it's right for a private company to censor politicians or the news in a democracy.

O'SULLIVAN: Facebook banned Trump after January 6th and said it would reassess the decision in two years. Now time is up and Facebook says the decision is imminent.

CRYSTAL PATTERSON, FACEBOOK'S FORMER HEAD OF GLOBAL CIVICS PARTNERSHIP: I have people say to me, like you guys will do anything for a dollar. You don't care. And quite the opposite was true, there was a lot of deliberation.

O'SULLIVAN: Crystal Patterson is a Democrat, Katie Harbath is a Republican, both had senior jobs at Facebook's offices in Washington, D.C., where they worked with politicians on using the platform.

PATTERSON: I think the decision to take Trump off the platform was overdue. We had a number of instances where he had posted things that for any other user would have been in violation of our community standards. He did the infamous post about banning Muslims from the country. When the looting starts, the shooting starts.

O'SULLIVAN: Katie agrees it was right to ban Trump after January 6th.

(On-camera): Did you think in that moment it was right to kick him off?

HARBATH: I thought in that moment it was. In the lead-up to that moment, I was still defending keeping him on the platform because as horrible as some of the things that he posted, I still just couldn't get myself past the point that I thought that people deserve to know what the people that are representing them have to say.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): While Trump's social media ban was welcomed by many in the U.S., it was also criticized by free speech advocates and some international politicians. In deciding what to do now, Facebook says it is assessing the risk to public safety and risk of imminent harm and giving Trump his account back.

(On-camera): The barometers that Facebook has assessed in terms of figuring out if he should be allowed back on essentially what it is, is the mood, the feeling in the country.

HARBATH: It's a judgment call. It's a judgment call. I think it's very important to recognize that both of these decisions are going to have a ton of impactful consequences and it would be foolish to think that either way is an easy decision.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Whatever Facebook decides will set a precedent for political speech on the platform. Elon Musk has already restored Trump's Twitter account, although the former president hasn't tweeted yet. Katie and Crystal disagree on what Facebook should do.

PATTERSON: This is actually where this mirrors a debate we probably would be having internally.

HARBATH: Looking at, is there imminent violence happening, which I think is a little different than incitement to violence. It's a nuanced type of approach. And so I don't necessarily see that happening. You don't see other January 6th that have necessarily happened.

PATTERSON: I recognize that Katie is making a distinction between, what was it, imminent and --

HARBATH: Incitement.

PATTERSON: Incitement. He is willing to use this platform to create that kind of energy and activity and I think that means he loses his privileges to have access to it. I also think there's been no shortage of hearing from him. It's not like because he hasn't been on Facebook or Twitter that he's had any trouble getting his message out or had any trouble making sure people know how he feels about things. I don't think he's entitled to an account on there.

O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Tens of millions of Americans voted for Donald Trump. For those tens of millions of Americans, are going to say, Facebook is a platform of censorship?

PATTERSON: They can still talk about Donald Trump. They can still talk about the election. They can have all that dialogue.

HARBATH: I would be more inclined to let him back and then make sure they have a very clear set of criteria about what are the thresholds that would require the company to either take down content or demote it or eventually take him off the platform again for what he is saying. I don't think it should take another January 6th level event in order to do that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[20:45:08]

BROWN: Our thanks to Donie O'Sullivan.

Well, a short time ago at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida, SpaceX launched its Falcon heavy rocket. The classified mission for the Space Force is the fifth overall launch for SpaceX's most powerful rocket.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Rudy Giuliani is the former New York City mayor who became a hero to so many people, not just New Yorkers in the aftermath of 9/11. Well, he's facing a litany of legal troubles for his role in spreading Donald Trump's election conspiracy theories and for allegedly encouraging the January 6th insurrection, which he denies.

[20:50:08]

Tonight, the final two episodes of the CNN Original Series, "GIULIANI: WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA'S MAYOR?" provides a revealing look at the epic rise and fall of this iconic American politician.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a time when, you know, it got emotional, but I never heard him say he's scared, you know?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Put your mask on. Put your mask on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some guys get in a position, and they step up. And I think that's how he was.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What's the situation right now?

GIULIANI: The situation is that two airplanes have attacked, apparently -- what? All right, well, then let's get -- let's go north then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They might be afraid that they overcome it because they're trying to help other people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: CNN's senior political analyst and anchor John Avlon joins us now. So he served -- you, John -- served as chief speech writer for Rudy Giuliani when he was mayor of New York. So really interesting to get your perspective on this.

This series shows Giuliani in all of his complexity. What else should viewers remember about him, as they watch these final two episodes?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Pamela, I mean, these final two episodes trace his arc from 9/11, from that pinnacle of international leadership, to his fall, and throwing in with Donald Trump and spreading election lies around January 6th.

What I think people shouldn't forget is that before the attacks of 9/11, Rudy Giuliani was an enormously successful mayor, a great mayor by any objective standard. Not only cutting, you know, murders by almost 70 percent, crime more than 50 percent, cutting welfare in half, but turning multibillion dollar deficits into surpluses, cutting taxes, restoring the quality of life, setting up a model for urban America that showed that cities were not, indeed, ungovernable.

And that is a success in governing. And it's in stark contrast, in some ways, to how he is seen today. But it shouldn't be forgotten. The man needs to be understood in all his complexity including and especially I think his successes that threaten to be overwhelmed by the decisions he's made in this last chapter of his career.

BROWN: Yes, because Giuliani's actions during and after the Trump era will undoubtedly have a big impact on his legacy. Right? What do you think the history books will say about Giuliani 50 years from now?

AVLON: I think 50 years from now, his leadership on 9/11 will still be the first sentence in his legacy, and it should be. That was a time when America faced an unprecedented massive attack, and he led us instinctively through that, not only in New York, as you said, but around the nation. But I think this last chapter, the decisions he's made to throw in with Donald Trump and back an election lie and contradict so many of the principles that he upheld, I think that threatens to cast a shadow and make so much of the positive things about his legacy less accessible.

But it shouldn't. You need to understand somebody in all the chapters of their life. I think 9/11 ultimately is what he will be remembered for and should be remembered for. But this last chapter shows a shadow over all the great good he did in other chapters of his career unfortunately.

BROWN: Certainly, and I think you're right. You need to look at the whole person, all the complexities. And that is what this is going to show.

John Avlon, thank you so much. The final two episodes of the CNN Original Series, "GIULIANI: WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA'S MAYOR?" airs in just a few minutes only on CNN.

Well, tonight the death of a daredevil. Legendary stuntman Robbie Knievel has died. He of course was the son of Evil Knievel and followed in his father's footsteps with his jaw-dropping motorcycle stunts including this one over the fountains at Caezar's Palace in Las Vegas.

His father tried that same jump unsuccessfully years earlier. Robbie lost his battle with pancreatic cancer on Friday. He was 60 years old.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:22]

BROWN: New research shows that American families are paying more money every month, as they try to keep up with inflation. According to Moody's Analytics, the typical household spent $371 more in December than they did a year ago. On average, families have paid an extra $82 for shelter, $72 for food, and $47 for utilities. Now the good news here, inflation appears to be cooling off in recent months compared to its peak last June.

Well, dramatic scenes out of San Diego, as firefighters rescued an injured driver after a crash left his vehicle dangling off a cliff. Look at this. The team battled heavy winds and rain, first securing the SUV, and then airlifting that driver out of the rocks and into safety. Firefighters say the driver was parked on the side of the road there when the vehicle suddenly and unexplainably lurched over the edge. Terrifying.

Well, it is one thing to be Miss USA and another to be Miss Universe. How about being crowned both? R'Bonney Gabriel beat runners-up Miss Venezuela and Miss Dominican Republic, to be crowned the 71st Miss Universe on Saturday night.

You may remember her viral moon costume, which was inspired by her hometown and NASA headquarters, Houston. Wow. Look at this. My goodness. 83 other women competed for the crown in New Orleans. Miss Ukraine donned a costume representing her country's fight for freedom. Well, she says she will use the new platform to cut down on pollution in the fashion industry and she also teaches sewing to survivors of human trafficking and domestic violence.

Well, don't forget that you can tweet me @pamelabrownCNN and you can also follow me on Instagram with that same handle.

Thank you so much for joining us this evening. I'll see you again next weekend. The CNN Original Series, "GIULIANI: WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA'S MAYOR" is next.