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FBI Search Of Biden's Home Overseen By U.S. Atty. John Lausch; FBI Conducts Search Of Pres. Biden's Wilmington Home And Finds More Classified Materials; Actor Jeremy Renner Says He Broke 30 Plus Bones In Snowplow Accident; U.S. Announces New $2.5B Security Aid Package To Ukraine; Over 100,000 Protest Against Netanyahu's Government. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired January 21, 2023 - 22:00   ET




PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Top of the hour now, I'm Pamela Brown in Washington and you are in the CNN Newsroom on this busy Saturday night. We are getting more details on tonight's breaking news about the FBI search for documents at the home of President Joe Biden in Wilmington, Delaware.

The search was overseen by the Office of Trump appointed U.S. Attorney John Lausch, who has been handling the initial review of the Justice Department's probe and declassified documents since Robert Hur is still transitioning to his role as special counsel.

Arlette Saenz is back with us net now. Arlette, what is the latest? Arlette, do we have a panel? All right, and we're going to we're going to go to our panel of experts as we wait for Arlette. Shan Wu is here, an attorney. And Shan, I want to get your thoughts on this significant development.

You know, look, there's the political aspect of this, there is also the legal aspect of this, but bottom line, it is significant that a sitting president's private residence was searched by the FBI and a fifth batch of classified documents was found in his house. Help us make sense of all of this and the significance of it.

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, this continues to be a communications and a political problem for the Biden administration. Biden, at this point, from what we can see, it doesn't look like anything's to be added to any criminal jeopardy here. And it is really significant historically, that there's been a search. And actually, it really goes to the cooperation and the transparency of the Biden administration.

I actually quibble some with some of the headlines, including the New York Times it says this was a seizure. If I hand you something, you're not seizing it from me. And this appears to be a consensual search, the lawyers are inviting the men wanting to cooperate with them. And they are searching for the documents. And some of these are quite old. I mean, goes back to possibly when he was a senator, or vice president. So it's not as though people know these are missing, have been searching for them. And they haven't been cooperating with it. That's why the cooperation piece is really important here.

BROWN: Does that make it worse for Biden, if the documents were classified that were found date all the way back to his time as -- in the U.S. Senate.

WU: Criminally, unlikely, it makes it worse, unless we find more evidence that something was done with them improperly. It certainly looks bad from a carelessness handling point of view, and it will certainly be a problem politically for him. But in analyzing it, there's moments from a criminal prosecutor standpoint, the finding of additional documents doesn't really add any weight to the criminal exposure.

And we might find more. I mean, if they're conducting sort of an unprecedented, right, historical look at someone who has been in government that long, making sure there isn't anything that they might have missed at this point, we may yet find additional documents.

BROWN: Right. And again, it just makes you think to go back to -- after the Trump Mar-a-Lago search, why Biden and his team didn't think, well, you know what, maybe we should go and search all of our residents to make sure we don't have classified documents. Now, fast forward, you know, several months later, here we are, right?

And the bottom line is you have two special counsel's investigation looking at a former president, a current president and their handling of classified information. There are huge distinctions. The biggest one, of course, is the fact that with Trump, there is an obstruction of justice investigation and the search there was a -- with a search warrant because they had evidence, the FBI had evidence that the classified documents were being moved and concealed.

WU: Right.

BROWN: But still, from an investigator standpoint, public perception matters. I know FBI always says and DOJ always says it's all about the facts, with all the facts, but public perception matters. How do they ensure that both investigations are handled fairly and properly held to the same standard?

WU: Well, I think there you have to trust in the experience and the integrity of these sorts of career -- or is the work on this, like the FBI agents. The career prosecutors are still working on it right now. And actually, Merrick Garland constantly expresses his confidence that DOJ could handle these, but it's clearly his anxiety over the way it looks politically that has pushed him to appoint a special counsel in both instances even though he says they could have handled it.


I actually think this one's a little bit premature. Where is the proof of that? Right now, the special counsel isn't on board doing it, yet it's still --

BROWN: Right.

WU: -- the initial U.S. Attorney doing it and obviously doing an extremely competent and thorough job at this point.

BROWN: Yes, I think that that's an important point, which is interesting, though, that he signed off on the search, but initially, early in the review, did not think that search was necessary. That is sort of an interesting point here.

I want to bring in Arlette, we have her with us now. And Arlette, you have been covering the White House. You've been covering this story since it first broke, talking to your White House sources. Now this big revelation tonight from the President's personal attorney that the FBI searched the residents and found six additional classified documents. What is the sense, the feeling among White House staffers and your sources right now with this?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, this really is a remarkable moment, as we have just seen this trickling out of information regarding the classified documents that have been found at both the President's former personal office, private office in Washington, D.C. and also his Wilmington, Delaware home.

Now this evening, Bob Bauer, the personal attorney for President Biden, revealing that the Justice Department did participate in a search of that Wilmington, Delaware residents just yesterday. It was a search that lasted nearly 13 hours. And what the White House and both -- and the personal attorneys are trying to stress is that it was done in full cooperation with the Justice Department.

Now we've also learned specifically that this search was conducted by FBI agents, which really is just a remarkable scene to think about the fact that the FBI was searching the home of a current sitting president. Now, this search was conducted just yesterday on Friday, neither President Biden nor First Lady Jill Biden were there at the home. They're actually spending the weekend here in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, where they also own a home.

But Bob Bauer detailed a little bit of what exactly this search of the Wilmington house entailed. He said that he essentially -- they were able to search the living, the working, and also the storage areas at the home. And he specified a kind of the different types of searches that they were able to go through.

And I want to read you a little bit of what he said that they looked through. He said that the, "DOJ had full access to the President's home including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, binders, memorabilia, to-do lists, schedules and reminders going back decades."

He added, "DOJ took possession of materials it deemed within the scope of its inquiry, including six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials, some of which are from the President's service in the Senate, and some of which were from his tenure as vice president. DOJ also took for further review, personally handwritten notes from the vice-presidential years. Now, this covers the fifth discovery that is known to have been made both that private office and at the home in Wilmington, Delaware. Of course, the very first search was conducted back in November -- on November 2, and that was on the Penn Biden Center.

But it wasn't until two months later when this was reported by CBS News that it came to light that there were any classified documents that had been tied to locations where President Biden has worked and lived. Of course, there was also searches done in December and January of the Wilmington residents, also here in Rehoboth Beach as well.

But all of those previous searches had been conducted by the personal attorneys. It was not until yesterday that FBI officials, the Justice Department were on hand, did conducted those searches themselves. Now one thing that the White House has been facing a lot of criticism for is the pace with which they have revealed that these discoveries have taken place.

November 2 was that very first discovery and it wasn't until it was reported in the media two months later, that these classified documents existed. And President Biden was asked on -- just on Thursday, whether he had any regrets about the way that the White House has handled, sharing this information with the public Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any regret, sir, that you did not reveal the existence of the documents back in November, before the midterms?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hang on, OK? Look, as we found -- we found a handful of documents were failed -- were filed on the wrong place. We're fully cooperating and looking forward to getting this resolved quickly.

I think you're going to find there's nothing there. I have no regrets. I'm following what the lawyers have told me they want me to do. That's exactly what we're doing. There's no there there.


SAENZ: And so one common thing we consistently have heard from the President and his attorneys is that they are trying to cooperate in every manner possible with the National Archives, the Justice Department and now the special counsel investigation. But certainly, the drip, drip, drip nature of this story has created huge complications for this White House.


BROWN: Certainly, and we do expect more FBI searches to happen, the other property is connected to Biden. So it could continue that drip, drip, drip. Thank you so much, Arlette, there live for us at Rehoboth Beach traveling with the President.

John Dean, I want to bring you in. There was never an FBI search of President Nixon's residence during Watergate, of course, the circumstances were much different. But as someone who lived through that history, did you ever imagine seeing a sitting president's home searched by the FBI, even as the former president has been investigated, at the same time?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Did not contemplate it. It was not -- it's very unusual. But I think that Biden has provoked it by his willingness to open up his doors and say, come in and check everything out for yourselves. I suspect you will be surprised that they found six documents and some notes that might have related those documents.

To me, Pamela, this is story is -- the dimensions of the story outweigh the substance of what's occurring? Yes, it was a wrong, but it's a molehill. We're dealing with Mr. Trump. We've got a mountain on classified material, it's very different and creates serious criminal problems.

I can't see any hint of that kind of situation for the sitting president. So it's fascinating. It's like the Hillary e-mails, more come out. It is drip, drip, drip. It's a political problem. Doesn't seem to be a legal problem at this time.

BROWN: But of course, Harry Litman, we won't know much about the extent of the legal issues or what this could mean for Biden legally until we know more about what was in those documents, right? I mean, that is also a key factor in trying to understand and assess what this means legally.

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Maybe. Look, it's true. We don't know enough about those sixth of -- and some of the ones previously, that could matter. But I'm totally with John here. I just can't see how any of it gives any kind of suspicion of criminal conduct by Biden. It's -- from what we know, he's never even pack these or touched any of these documents.

But it's a real question from tonight, Pam, is what took them so long. So to date -- and I think we probably know they were hoping by handling it themselves, as we're talking about Biden's lawyers, it would all go away quickly, because -- specifically because there's nothing criminal here at all.

But now that a special counsel has been employed and they've been getting their brains beaten in by the, you know, accusations of drip, drip, they finally said at DOJ come on in. And by the way, we need another word than search. That's the constitutional term. A magistrate says there's probable cause. Nobody did that here.

It was just a consensual come on in and look at anything you want. And they did it. And what it signals is the White House, I think, and Biden's lawyers are bowing to reality and saying, you know, this is now a criminal matter. We just got to let DOJ handle it completely. We are out of trying to communicate or handle the politics. DOJ, do your worst, especially since they -- since a new Special Counsel Hur is arriving imminently.

BROWN: But I mean -- but Harry, I mean, it was a search --


BROWN: -- though. I mean, they did go and they spent 13 hours there just about. I mean, and they did find six classified documents that I am sure Biden and his team did not want to exist and have them find at his private residence, right?

LITMAN: Right, yes and no. So again, this is one of these inconvenient or really unfair overlaps with from. A search has real meaning in the Constitution. And we -- when we think of it this way, somebody goes as they did with Trump to neutral magistrate. We think there's probable cause to believe a crime here.

This was 100 percent different. Of course, the FBI came in and did their stuff, but without any predicate or finding by anybody possibility of criminal evidence to find there. So really was a voluntary come in and have at it -- really, we need a different word. You know, they examined it very closely, but a search has real meanings and connotations. Neither of them was present here.

BROWN: Right. But I believe it was the President's attorney who first said that but I could be wrong. I'm looking at the statement now. But I don't want to get --

LITMAN: Now the President will get and say, come in, come in. Yes.

BROWN: Yes. I don't want to get too caught up in the words here, but I do want to zoom in on that a little bit more because Republicans no doubt, I mean, look, it is hard to discuss his story without talking about the politics and the backdrop here of the Donald Trump investigation in his mishandling of classified documents and the obstruction of justice investigation.


So what do you make of that, Shan Wu, and how does that factor into this? And also, when you look at the differences between the fact that that was a search warrant that was executed, because that, of course obstruction investigation, this was the President's attorneys working with DOJ saying come on in, they were there at the house while this search, whatever you want to call it, was taking place for the 13 hours.

Talk a little bit about those differences. And is it unusual for the attorneys to be there and to have this consent search happen, Shan?

WU: Well, it's certainly unusual for this to happen with the President, but I think very much to Harry's point, the critical issue here is there was no predicate factually criminally going on here. And what they were doing was they didn't have to go to a judge and say, look, we have probable cause that a crime might have been committed so we need a search warrant issued.

People do searches all the time. I searched my car keys, you know, things I've lost. This was a consensual search, and people can consent to the search. And that's within the concept of the constitutional notion of a constitutional search if you can consent to that.

I think what's really particularly interesting here is Norm Eisen, Andrew Weissmann, Mueller's former deputy, did a piece in just security, making a comparison just before these new documents came to light, about a look at what Alberto Gonzales had done. And also there, the DOJ IG had looked at his situation and found that he had removed the classified documents when he was in the White House took them with him to DOJ.

And interestingly, among those were handwritten notes he taken which Gonzales at the time didn't seem to realize if he was taking notes of classified information, that will be classified too. If you look at that comparison, you'll find actually -- to me looking from the outside in, a lot more damaging evidence. I mean, he personally was transporting information. He had taken these notes, and he did not really importantly, self-disclose.

He didn't come to DOJ and say, hey, we found these, we want to turn them over. And repeatedly, the Biden team keeps doing it. And that's why the transparency is important. It doesn't excuse mishandling. But as to Harry's point from a criminal -- and to John's point -- from a criminal predicate standpoint, that cooperation is enormous because if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to hide.

BROWN: All right, Shan Wu, Harry Litman, John Dean, great to have you on as we tried to process and understand this breaking news tonight and what it all means.

And we continue to follow tonight's breaking news. Up next, Former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger joins us. We'll be right back.



BROWN: And we are back with our continuing coverage of the breaking news that FBI investigators found six more classified materials at President Biden's home in Wilmington, Delaware during a 13-hour search yesterday.

Joining me now with reaction, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Congressman, all right, so I want to start by playing a clip of what President Biden said when classified documents were found at former President Trump's home in Florida back in August. Let's listen to that.


SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: When you saw the photograph of the top- secret documents laid out on the floor at Mar-a-Lago, what did you think to yourself, looking at that image? BIDEN: How that could possibly happen? How one anyone could be that irresponsible? And I thought, what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods. By that, I mean, names of people helped or et cetera. And it just totally irresponsible.


BROWN: And now we're learning tonight from the President's attorney, that a fifth batch of classified information was found at a property connected to him, his personal residence in Wilmington. What is your initial reaction to this news tonight?

ADAM KINZINGER (R), FORMER ILLINOIS CONGRESSMAN: I mean, certainly that soundbite is going to haunt the President for a very long time. You know, look, it's, of course, the question is how much more? Initially, when the first few tranches were found, you can see how this is an oversight. But there's something that really stood out to me on this one, and maybe nothing but how does he have documents from when he was a senator?

Look, I'm not familiar with how the classified information works for a vice president or president, what those controls are. What I do know, in the Senate and in the House, all that information that's classified is highly controlled into it in a specific skiff that is monitored what you take in and take out. That's going to be an interesting thing to me.

So, look, I still don't think this right is anywhere near the level of what former President Trump has done. But this is like the equivalent of, you know, a murder and an assault. You can prosecute both things, and they're pretty bad even if one's by worse.

BROWN: Yes. And it is worth talking about there are some key differences, but that doesn't make it right, you know? And just to note, I -- reading through this letter again from the President's attorney, it is unclear if the materials taken from his time in Senate was classified information or some of the other materials they took outside of classified info that was they felt was important to the investigation.

I just want to note that there's some ambiguity there. But, you know, the President just said a couple days ago, I have no regrets. There was no there there. What do you make of the rather defensive tone the President has struck so far? Is it time to rethink how he is responding to this to some people could come across as arrogant?

KINZINGER: Yes. Look, if I was advising the communications, it would be, you know, basically come clean with everything you know. If there's stuff you don't know, say you don't know and admit fault here. Look, when the President said that sound bite you played at the opening here, there's a lot of material since then that they have found in various places.

It is -- it's becoming tough for me and the American people, I think, to think that he had no idea any of that was there in all these different locations. I would advise come forward, say what you know, say what you don't know and then let DOJ move forward. But this is, you know, the legal side is one thing, legal -- this legal side doesn't do nuance and that's a good thing or they do nuance actually that's a good thing, they can tell differences.


Politics doesn't do nuance. So politically, this has blunted any attack on the former president. I think, you know, there may be huge differences, but in terms of being able to convince people, it's become a lot more difficult.

BROWN: Right, I mean, also, we live in a age in a day where people watch what they want to watch to reaffirm their views, read what they want to read to reaffirm their views. They don't like to work. I shouldn't say they as everyone, but there is a large swath of Americans who just want to hear what they want to hear, right, they're not going to focus on the nuance.

And Republicans will no doubt jump in, if -- they probably have already started. I've been anchoring the show since the news broke, so I haven't been able to see what's out there. But they're going to see some of this. I mean, in many ways, this is a political gift to them.

KINZINGER: Well, you're right. And here's what I would always encourage everybody to do, particularly in the media, is to look at what these member -- these Republican members say. They have a right to be upset about this. They have a right to have oversight of this. But also compare that to what they said about the former president.

I'm all a big believer in consistency. I personally believe that whether you're Republican or Democrat, you should be treated no differently, particularly when it comes to issues like this. So I think everybody has to be held. And it's, unfortunately, a pretty great opportunity to see who holds the same standards, because they have spoken out on both of these, at least be consistent.

BROWN: I think that that's such an important point. I mean, that is why people just get so annoyed and turned off by politicians, right? And we've just seen a glaring example, by the way from both Republicans and Democrats, right? Republicans who were shrugging it off Trump's handling and Democrats seizing on that.

Now Democrats, no, no big deal. They've been cooperative and Republicans now saying this is such a big deal. There are national security concerns. I mean, it's on both sides. And I think that that is why in a sense too, can you even talk about this in a nonpartisan terms, right?

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, unfortunately, we're at that moment where everything has two sides, right? Everything is so divisive. Everything is, I'm picking my team and sticking with it. This is an opportunity. And I know these people that serve in the House, particularly that, you know, have the goodness in their heart.

This is an opportunity, whether you're Republican or Democrat, to stand up and show the American people what's been lacking, which is just truth and straight shooting. If you're a Democrat, you can admit what's happening on this is bad. If you're a Republican, you can admit that what the former president did was that. We're not saying it's the exact same thing, but this is what America needs is just straight shooting. And, unfortunately, that's been sorely lacking.

BROWN: Yes, just being intellectually honest, you know, what you really think, not just pick a team and stick by it no matter what. And I think as we pointed out, this is a glaring example of what's wrong and politics right now.

Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thank you so much. So great to have you on.

And you were in the CNN Newsroom. We're going to stay on top of our breaking news tonight. But also coming up next, violent protests rocked downtown Atlanta. We're going to hear what the mayor had to say. And the latest on the tragic "Rust" movie set shooting and what Alec Baldwin has decided to do.



BROWN: Other stories we're following tonight, Atlanta police say they have restored order in the downtown area after violent protests tonight. A police cruiser was set on fire, windows were broken and at least six people were arrested in the demonstrations over a controversial new police training facility being built on nearby forest land.


MAYOR ANDRE DICKENS (D), ATLANTA: Some of them were found with explosives on them. You heard that correctly, explosive and that has led to a police officer's car being set on fire, and other destruction has occurred. And so, make no mistake about it, these individuals meant harm to people and to property.

And so to the people of Atlanta have said from the beginning of my administration, that keeping our cities street safe is my top priority. And we will continue to leverage all of the city's resources to make that happen.


BROWN: The protests come after a Wednesday incident that left an environmental activist dead and Georgia state trooper wounded. The new police training center has been dubbed cop city by activists.

Well just a day after learning he will face two counts of involuntary manslaughter, Alec Baldwin had no comment as he squeezed through a scrum of reporters yesterday. CNN has learned the actor/producer intends to finish the movie "Rust" despite the fatal shooting of the film's cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in 2021.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino has the latest. Gloria? GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Alec Baldwin will not only continue to start in the lead role in the film, "Rust", but they will work to complete the film. We have heard from the lawyers on the film who have confirmed to us that they will be adding additional safety measures including the removal of working weapons on the set as they work to come to complete the film.

Now, Baldwin has avoided reporters and he has declined to take reporters' questions. You can see him there entering his apartment in Manhattan yesterday. But he did speak to CNN several months ago back in August, and he told my colleague Chloe Melas how he viewed his responsibility in this incident.

He told her that he did not believe his job was to concentrate on whether the gun was safe because there were other people on the set whose job it was to do exactly that. Now that will certainly be part of what is discussed as this legal process moves forward. But there are some experts who are contradicting that view that Alec Baldwin has that ultimately, he should not be held responsible for figuring out whether or not the gun was safe. Listen to the expert.


STEVE WOLF, GUN SAFETY EXPERT: When Alex says he relied on experts, this is untrue because he hired an armorer, regardless of what her qualifications were, and she was not present. So he knew that he wasn't taking the gun from the armorer. And for Dave Halls, the first AD to come in and say cold gun, really should have no more important than if the caterer came in and said cold gun.



PAZMINO: Now that district attorney has accused Baldwin and the armorer of ignoring and failing to perform safety procedures that would have prevented the terrible accident from happening. And the legal process will have to play out over the next several weeks and months. Both Baldwin and the armorer who was also charged will have to have a preliminary hearing where they will determine whether or not there is enough probable cause to move forward to a trial.

In New York, Gloria Pazmino, CNN.

BROWN: All right, thanks to Gloria. Well new details tonight from actor Jeremy Renner about his snowplow accident. In an Instagram post today, the "Avenger" star writes that he broke more than 30 bones and that they, quote, will mend grow stronger. The image shows Renner in bed while a physical therapist works his right leg.

Renner was injured by a snowplow while clearing a driveway near his Nevada home, according to his publicist. A 911 call log obtained by CNN says Renner was completely crushed by the vehicle and that he had extreme difficulty breathing. Wow.

Well still ahead, back to our breaking news. FBI investigators on Friday found additional classified material while searching President Biden's Wilmington Delaware home. We'll discuss the political fallout up next.



BROWN: Turning back to our breaking news, more classified documents have been found at President Biden's home in Delaware. The FBI conducted the 13-hour search yesterday with the consent of Biden's attorneys. The President's personal attorney Bob Bauer says the Justice Department has taken possession of six items.

Bauer says some dated back to Biden's time in the U.S. Senate and others from his tenure as vice president. The search was overseen by U.S. Attorney John Lausch, a Trump appointee, who has been handling the initial review of the DOJ's new probe, while Robert Hur transitions to his role as special counsel.

So let's bring in two CNN Political Commentators, Bakari Sellers, former state representative from South Carolina, and hosted the Bakari Sellers podcast. Also with us, former Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania, Charlie Dent. Thanks for staying up late for us to talk about this breaking news tonight, gentlemen.

Congressman, starting with you. The President's attorneys had searched the Wilmington home at least twice before this FBI search located more items. What is your reaction to hearing about this news tonight?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, my reaction is, how does a sitting United States senator take home classified materials to his home? I -- I'm sorry, you know, I served in the United States Congress. And every time I viewed classified materials, I did it in a classified setting, usually in a skiff secure facility.

And there was always someone there guarding the documents. That I couldn't even fathom walking out with them. So how does a senator do that? I mean, that's -- this is just reckless and careless. And I think that's a very fair question for Congress to ask of this President. How are you able to do such a thing?

I think this is a terrible situation. I'm not saying this is about as Trump situation where there's criminal exposure, Trump was uncooperative. But I just think this is awful. And, you know, we've had now Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, all people that are president or ran for president, unable to properly handle classified material, and it was outrageous.

BROWN: And we should note on the materials taken for when he was Senate, reading the statement from the President's personal attorney, it's not exactly clear to me, at least if the classified information included when he was in Senate -- included the time when he was in the Senate, or if it was some of the additional documents they took as part of the -- that they thought was relevant to the investigation that dated back to his time as Senate. But it was notable, right, that was many years ago. And they took these documents, at least six classified documents, including other documents and handwritten letters from Joe Biden. The FBI took that from his property, and now it's part of this investigation.

I mean, Bakari, this is truly remarkable. The FBI searching the private property of a sitting president. How politically damaging is this to President Biden, in your view?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I don't think it's truly remarkable. I think that we're doing a disservice when we begin to lump in Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden. I think that we vetted Hillary Clinton's, but her e-mails long enough to find out that was absolutely nothing.

I think my good friend Charlie Dent did have some discernment between the obstruction of 300 documents stored in Mar-a-Lago. And I think we're up to maybe 20 documents at the President's residence. I think one of the things that the American people are smart enough to realize is that we have to have a better system, whereby we have document retention and tracking, so things like this don't happen. And I think that's first.

The second thing is the Biden administration does have to do a better job of explaining the how and the why and what exactly happened. And I think a lot of it's going to come down to two legal principles, the intent of the individual when these documents went into a private location, one. And two, the substance of these documents. I think those are the things that are going to matter the most.

And three, I think, again, we're doing a disservice to many of the people viewing and around the world were really, really smart people, by lumping them all in together. This is nowhere near the obstruction that we saw from the Trump administration. It's nowhere near the falsifying legal documents of Trump's lawyers. This is nowhere near the voluminous nature of those documents.

Yes, the President of the United States, this President has questions to answer. But let's pause on setting our hair on fire.

BROWN: And we've been very clear in the show over the last several hours about those distinctions. But how do you respond to that, Charlie Dent? I mean, I have to say as a journalist covering this, I have heard a lot of whataboutism, and a lot of, oh, this was bad, but this isn't so bad and vice versa from both sides of the party, Charlie?

DENT: Well, look, I think the question is how did these documents get to where they were, to his home, or to the Penn Biden Center?


Again, look, you know, I'm sitting 20 feet from my garage. I have all kinds of papers from my time in Congress. I can assure you of one thing. There are no classified documents in there. They're just not there. And so, how did Hillary Clinton get classified material on a secure server? How did Donald Trump take all this documentation down to his place in Florida? How did Joe Biden get it out, including from time, apparently, when he was a senator?

I think this is a big problem. Yes, we classify way too much material. There are probably too many people who have security clearances. But these are fair questions. People at the highest levels of government have to handle this material much more responsibly.

And I totally agree with Bakari, this is not like Trump's situation. He was not -- Trump has not been cooperative. And, you know, he's been defiant. I get -- but this is wrong. And, you know, again, members of Congress who walk out of classified briefings with classified material and take them home are going to be in a heap of trouble.

And I just think that, you know, I think there's something wrong with this. And it's really disturbing to me, as somebody who had the privilege to him, be able to view this material. He took it seriously, and he signed documents that we would never been properly disclose this stuff, or steal it. We were very careful. So I, again, I think there are a lot of fair questions to be raised here, and an answer.

BROWN: And the fact to the matter is, Bakari, President Biden did say in that 60 Minutes interview that he thought it was wrong, what Trump did taking classified documents from our logo, and that he was really concerned about it. And now you have, you know, the fifth batch of classified documents being found, of course, a much smaller volume.

There's the key differences with the no 30, approximately, 30 for Biden, more than 300 for Trump, right? I mean, it's like not even in the same realm. And that is true. And also, they have -- the Biden team has been very cooperative as they have said, transparent with DOJ reaching out, being proactive, taking the initiative. So some key differences, but from a PR political perspective, Bakari, can you concede that this is bad?

SELLERS: No, I can concede that there are questions that have to be answered. I mean, I'm not going to be backed into a corner to concede this is bad. I think that there could be a question about intent. We just don't know the answer. I think there has been bad plays by this administration coming forth, but being forthcoming to the American people.

The documents were found on November 2, why do we find out about them so late? Why was he just responding to questions when he was in California visiting the floods? This White House has to own this. This White House has to tell us whether or not this is a mistake. We have to understand the intent.

To Charlie's point, Charlie asked questions. I would push back on the questions and then look over my client and say, answer them, answer Charlie's questions. They're good questions, I guess, but answer him because inquisitive minds want to know. So is this bad? No, I do not say that. But do they have to do a better job of handling the fallout and being transparent with people other than DOJ with journalists and the American public? The answer to that question is yes. BROWN: All right, Bakari Sellers, Charlie Dent, thank you so much for offering your perspective on this late Saturday night. We appreciate it.

Still ahead, President Biden and his vow to Ukraine amid some disagreement among allies.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ukraine's going to get all the help they need.


BROWN: But will they get the help they want? We're going to walk through the weapons on Ukraine's wish list and how they may help in their fight against Russia.



BROWN: The Biden administration has announced a new $2.5 billion aid package to Ukraine. For the first time, it includes Stryker armored vehicles. What's not included though, are German made leopard tanks. And Germany is facing pressure to provide these weapons to Ukraine. CNN's Nic Robertson has more.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITO (voice-over): Amidst read disagreement, Ukraine's allies at a U.S. led meeting in Germany failed to agree on their biggest challenge yet whether to send German made leopard tanks to Ukraine.

BORIS PISTORIUS, GERMAN DEFENSE MINISTER (through translation): All the pros and cons have to be weighed very carefully. We cannot all say today when a decision will be made, nor what that decision on the leopard tanks will be.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Ukraine's President Zelenskyy concerned about Russian Spring Offensive, told the meeting allies need to speed up or more Ukrainians will die.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Time remains a rational level. We have to speed up. Hundreds of thank you are not hundreds of tenths.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): The meetings host try to paper over the cracks, tucked up urgency and unity not differences over tanks.

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This isn't really about one single platform. And so our goal, and I think we've been fairly successful at doing this and bringing together capability, is to provide the capability that Ukraine needs to be successful in the near term. ROBERTSON (voice-over): Ukraine says it needs 300 of the leopard two tanks. About 2,000 are currently in use with its allies. But those allies need German permission to reexport them. Ministers of some of those nations met on the margins at Ramstein, one of them Poland.

MARIUSZ BLASZCZAK, POLISH DEFENSE MINISTER (through translation): I'm convinced that building this coalition will be successful, just as the issue of transferring Patriot systems to Ukraine was successful.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): But despite disagreement over tanks, the threat of a Russian Spring Offensive has triggered a surge in military hardware, pledged to Ukraine recently. The U.S. alone committing 90 Stryker combat vehicles, 59 Bradley fighting vehicles and 350 up- armored Humvees Thursday, Sweden, Denmark the U.K., Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia, Portugal, France and Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and others together sending multiple battalions worth of offensive capability.

The talks Friday trying to sync it all up.


GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: For all these different nations that we're here today, to assemble all of the equipment, get it all synchronize, get the Ukrainian troops trained, et cetera. That'll be a very, very heavy lift.


ROBERTSON: My latest analysis, even if Ukraine can sync up its forces with all the armaments coming their way, they still won't be able to retake all their lost territory this year. The issue of Ukraine needing modern battlefield tanks is far from over.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

BROWN: Well over 100,000 demonstrators flooding the streets of Tel Aviv tonight to protest Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's new government. It is the third straight week of demonstrations across the country but tonight's are the largest we've seen so far. And they come after it was revealed the newly elected far-right government was considering a plan that would, among other reforms, empower parliament to override Supreme Court decisions.

And recapping our breaking news tonight, more classified documents found at President Biden's home in Delaware. The FBI conducted a 13- hour search yesterday with the consent of Biden's attorneys. The President's personal attorney Bob Bauer says the Justice Department has taken possession of six items. Bauer says some dated back to Biden's time in the U.S. Senate and others from his tenure as vice president.

Well, tune in to CNN This Morning Weekend starting at 6:00 a.m. for the very latest. Thank you so much for joining me this evening. I'm Pamela Brown. Hope you have a great night.