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First Witnesses Today in Murdaugh Murder Trial; Imran Ansari is Interviewed about the Murdaugh Trial; David Petraeus is Interviewed about Russia's War on Ukraine; School Board Fires Superintendent after Shooting. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 26, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:10]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Any moment now testimony set to begin in the double murder case against former South Carolina attorney Alex Murdaugh. He, you may remember, accused of killing his wife and youngest son. This in June of 2021.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Opening statement begin (ph) yesterday. Prosecutors and defense attorneys painting wildly different pictures of what they believe happened that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CREIGHTON WATERS, SOUTH CAROLINA SENIOR ASST. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Pow, pow, two shots, abdomen and the leg, and took her down. And after that, there were additional shot, including two shots to the head that, again, did catastrophic damage that killed her instantly.

DICK HARPOOTLIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR ALEX MURDAUGH: The cell phone records would indicate he would have had less than ten minutes to kill them, get up to the house, get in the car and crank it up. He'd be covered in blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN national correspondent Dianne Gallagher is outside the courthouse in Walterboro, South Carolina.

So, in terms of what we heard yesterday, that's really, of course, setting the stage for what we are expecting today, bring us up to speed, Dianne.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, as you mentioned, testimony expected to begin momentarily once court gets underway there at the courthouse here in Colleton County behind me. We anticipate to initially hear from first responders who arrived on scene there on June 7, 2021, and potentially they will be playing body camera video. We're told that it's roughly 45-minute video. The defense asked yesterday for the entirety of that video to be played. Now, whether or not everyone will see that video or just the jury,

we'll still learn that in the coming moments here. We're not going to likely be able to broadcast that live due to the gruesome nature of the crime scene. And that's something we heard a lot about during those opening statements from both the defense and the prosecution. Both of them using them to try and prove their own case.

Something we did learn from prosecutor Creighton Waters yesterday that we had not before was about a rain coat that they found they say Alex Murdaugh took to his parents' house in the weeks after the murder.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CREIGHTON WATERS, PROSECUTOR: They go upstairs and they find - upstairs they find a wadded up, very, very large raincoat in a blue color. It looked like a tarp. And you're going to hear evidence that it was coated with gunshot residue on the inside. On the inside. You're going to hear other evidence of gunshot residue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, that gunshot residue is something we had not heard about previous to those statements. Of course, the weapon that they are - that they've been talking about here is unaccounted for still, but they claim that it was one in the Murdaugh family's personal collection.

Now, most of the evidence in both the defense and the prosecution's case seems to focus on cell phone data from all three, Paul, Maggie and Alex Murdaugh's phones. And the defense seemingly building a case using voices on videos, Snapchat videos, saying it puts Alex Murdaugh at the scene when he says he wasn't. But the defense says it also paints a picture of a loving father and somebody who they say couldn't have committed this crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK HARPOOTIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You're going to see a video somewhere between 7:30 and 8:00 the night of the murders with Paul and Alex riding around looking at some trees they planted. They're laughing. They're having a good time. To find Alex Murdaugh guilty of murdering his son, you're going to have to accept that within an hour of having an extraordinarily bonding -- you can see it in the snapchat -- that he executes him in a brutal fashion. Not believable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: And, look, we are going to hear a lot about cell phone data, those videos. But it's also important what we're seeing happen in the courtroom. Remember, Alex Murdaugh, now disbarred, but he was an attorney, so he knows the jury is watching him. Sitting behind him is his family, including his only surviving son, Buster Murdaugh. Of course, his mother and brother brutally murdered that night. Yesterday, look, Jim, Erica, that was the first time that I have seen

Buster supporting his father in person at any of his court appearances. That is something that everybody who has been following this case was a little surprised to see. It was something we were waiting to find out, is Buster going to show up in person? He did. He came in again this morning, sitting behind his father again today for this day of testimony in court. Again, we're told this is going to last several weeks, and anticipate extremely gruesome testimony in the coming days.

[09:35:06]

SCIUTTO: Lord, the circumstances of this case, just incredible.

GALLAGHER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Dianne Gallagher, thanks so much.

With us now to discusses, former assistant district attorney and prosecutor, Imran Ansari. He's also a host and legal analyst for the "Law and Crime Network."

Good to have you on this morning. Thanks so much.

IMRAN ANSARI, TRIAL ATTORNEY AND FORMER PROSECUTOR: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, first of all I wonder, big picture, based on what we know, the evidence so far, who do you think it favors in this case?

ANSARI: Well, the prosecution. It's a circumstantial case. And they're really outlined yesterday in their opening statement the evidence that they're going to be presenting to this jury. And it seems pretty compelling when you take the pieces and put them together.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANSARI: I think the prosecution is outlining a strong case.

But, of course, the defense will be looking to poke holes into that case.

HILL: When we look at, you know, the fact that, you know, as Dianne just pointed out, you have both the prosecution and the defense focusing on cell phone data. Increasingly we are seeing this type of information come into courtrooms. Just how solid is this typically in terms of evidence?

ANSARI: Yes, as we get along in the age of technology, more and more you see cell phone data, videos coming into evidence. And we hear that there's going to be a key piece of evidence, and that would be the Snapchat video coming from the son's phone, the deceased son, Paul's phone. And we know that prosecutors are looking to rely on this to place Alex Murdaugh at the scene of the crime when he previously stated that he was not there. So, you see this pattern in this case and other cases where this

technology, this sort of data is being used more and more by the prosecution, but also the defense when it favors the defendant.

SCIUTTO: Imran, I wonder, and Dianne mentioned this in her report, to see Murdaugh's other son, his surviving son, there in the courtroom, showing support for him. This is, of course, a jury trial. Prosecutor and the defense attorney, they are - they are trying to persuade the jury. Is his presence there persuasive in cases - something like that in cases like you've been involved in?

ANSARI: Yes, Jim, I think it's very telling because he appeared on a witness list for the prosecution. We expected that he may be and still may be a state's witness. But he's sitting behind his father. And if you think about the facts of this case, the murder of the mother, the brother, and the fact that he is now sitting behind his father, seemingly showing support for his father, I think is very telling. And I would imagine the jury is focusing in on that, seeing that support for his father and taking that in and wondering, what is the family dynamic here -

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ANSARI: And why if, you know, these crimes that he's alleged to have committed, which are heinous, really did occur, would the son be backing and sitting behind Alex Murdaugh?

HILL: Well, he's also listed on the defense list as a potential witness. So, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

I should point out we are looking at live pictures now as court gets underway.

Imran, great to have you with us today.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Talk to you again soon. Thanks.

ANSARI: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Of course, we'll continue to follow that case.

Still ahead this hour, massive Russian air strikes against Ukraine, notably just hours after news that western allies, including the U.S., are preparing to send tanks to help Ukrainian forces on the front lines. We're going to be joined by former CIA Director, former U.S. CENTCOM commander, General David Petraeus, to discuss. That's coming up.

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[09:42:41]

SCIUTTO: This morning, Ukrainians told to take shelter as Russia launched yet another major aerial assault on Ukraine. Ukrainian officials say Russia fired some 55 missiles all across the country overnight, aimed specifically at energy facilities. And while nearly two dozens of those missiles were shut down, many did hit their targets. One man killed by falling missile fragments.

This latest round of attack comes, not coincidentally, just hours after the U.S. and several European allies vowed to send tanks to Ukraine, something President Zelenskyy has been asking for, for months.

Joining me now to discuss, former CIA director and former U.S. CENTCOM commander, General David Petraeus.

General, thanks so much for joining this morning.

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, US CENTCOM: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So, you're aware of the debate leading up to this. There appears to be unity now among western allies. Are tanks the weapon that Ukrainian forces need now?

PETRAEUS: Absolutely. Ideally would have made this decision even a bit earlier so that they can train fully on them and integrate them into their forces. But without tanks, you don't have the centerpiece of the kind of combined arms operations that would be necessary to enable Ukraine to have successful counteroffensive operations this spring and summer to liberate more of their territory from Russian occupation.

It's interesting that in the Kremlin they downplayed the issue of tanks. Just said, well, this might delay things a little bit. But, of course, it's the punitive actions, it's the punishment that they're meeting now with these 55 missiles that they shot at Ukraine last night, again targeting, of course, civilian infrastructure, not military. Again, a violation of the laws of land warfare.

But, at the end of the day, this is a very significant development. Clearly the United States ultimately recognize that it's necessary for them to give a certain number of our M1 Abrams tanks to get Germany to agree to send their Leopards and also to allow Poland and other countries to o send their Leopard II tanks to Ukraine as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PETRAEUS: But this is a major development. It will enable the offenses that are necessary for Ukraine and without which they just couldn't have conducted.

SCIUTTO: As you're aware, one factor in all these weapons decisions going back to the very start of the war has been, not just is this the right weapon for Ukraine, but also could this go too far so as to provoke Russia into some sort of retaliation or escalate the conflict into one between the west and Russia.

[09:45:05]

Do you have any concern about tanks raising that risk too far? PETRAEUS: Not really, no. I don't think that this is going to trigger

something. And I think actually we have done - now, we, the countries, the U.S., the western countries, have done quite a good job of conveying to Russia that if they were to use, for example, tactical nuclear weapons or attack a NATO country, Russia would end up in a worse situation than it was before it chose that option.

And so I think the deterrence is at play here. I don't think this is the issue that would result in some escalation that should be of enormous concern to us. Although, again, all they could do is just launch what we hope is a dwindling number of their missiles at Ukraine last night.

SCIUTTO: This war has taken on many characteristics of a war of attrition. Just horrendous military casualties on those battlefields in the east without much forward or backwards progress, as well as, as you referenced, tremendous civilian casualties as Russia tries to rain down, you know, punishment, in effect, on them. Do you see anything changing that dynamic in the coming months?

PETRAEUS: Yes. What I hope is that we will continue to do everything that we can to enable Ukraine to convince Vladimir Putin that this war is unsustainable, keeping in mind that Russia has already lost at least eight times the soldiers in 11 months that they lost in the nearly ten years of war in Afghanistan, of course, which was unsustainable for the USSR. And also that as we tighten further the economic, financial and personal sanctions in export controls on Russia, that we can convince Putin that this war is unsustainable on the home front as well. That's got to be the objective because until Putin recognizes that he's not going to achieve his ultimate goals and that the war is not sustainable, there won't be meaningful negotiations. And at that point Ukraine, which will need a marshal- like plan for reconstruction, will need an iron clad security (INAUDIBLE) and obviously needs to stop the damage, then you could have meaningful discussions and a resolution through negotiations.

SCIUTTO: You mentioned the Afghan war, which many looking back historically say was a factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union. What is your level of concern, hope even if you want to describe it that way, but what is the threat to Putin's government from his ongoing - his ongoing troubles and high costs from the war in Ukraine?

PETRAEUS: Yes, no, that can't be discounted. And, of course, we all think that this is inconceivable right now. You know, you look at it, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship like this and say, there's no way that anybody could ever mount a coup against this and survive. But, of course, that's right before it seem - it is all of a sudden inevitable. And we've seen that during the Arab spring upon (ph) decades ago, all the others (ph), where the regime seems to be incredibly solid right up until it's not.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

PETRAEUS: And so this has to be a concern for Putin. It's another of the elements that should play in as we try altogether to hasten that moment when he recognizes that this is an unsustainable endeavor, he needs to negotiate some resolution and to get out of it.

SCIUTTO: Yes, perhaps the reason he sits at all those long tables when we see him in the Kremlin.

General David Petraeus, always good to have you on.

PETRAEUS: Thanks, Jim. Good to be with you.

HILL: School officials were warned repeatedly that a six-year-old who shot his teacher, they were warned that student had a gun at school. That's according to the attorney for the teacher who was shot. So, why were so many warnings on that day ignored?

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[09:52:46]

SCIUTTO: Well, this story shock us from the beginning. Perhaps you as well. Overnight, the school board of a Virginia district, where a six- year-old boy shot his teacher, has now ousted the school superintendent. In another major change, the assistant principal of the school where this shooting took place has also now resigned.

HILL: The attorney for the teacher who was shot now says administrators were warned multiple times on that day that the child had a gun but repeatedly failed to act.

CNN's Brian Todd has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I move that we approve the separation agreement and severance with the superintendent.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Newport News School superintendent voted out after board members at a special meeting voted to approve a separation agreement with Superintendent George Parker and appointed an interim superintendent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Effective February 1, 2023, Dr. Parker will be relieved of his duties as superintendent.

TODD: All of this three weeks after a six-year-old student shot and wounded his 1st grade teacher.

DIANE TOSCANO, ATTORNEY FOR WOUNDED TEACHER ABBY ZWERNER: This should have never happened. It was preventable. And thank God Abby is alive.

TODD: The attorney for the teacher, Abby Zwerner, says she will file a lawsuit against the Newport News School District.

TOSCANO: Had the school administrators acted in the interest of their teachers and their students, Abby would not have sustained a gunshot wound to the chest, a bullet that remains dangerously inside her body.

TODD: Attorney Diane Toscano alleging a dramatic timeline of warnings on the day of the shooting.

The first coming around 11:15 a.m., when Zwerner warned an administrator the six-year-old threatened to beat up another student.

TOSCANO: They didn't call security. They didn't remove the student from the classroom.

TODD: Later, at 12:30, another teacher searched the boy's backpack, suspecting he had brought the gun to school and put it in his pocket before recess.

TOSCANO: The administrator downplayed the report from the teacher and the possibility of a gun, saying, and I quote, well he has little pockets. This is outrageous.

TODD: Around 1:00 p.m., a third teacher told administrators a distressed student confessed to seeing the gun at recess.

TOSCANO: Did administrators call the police? No.

[09:55:03]

Did administrators lockdown the school? No.

TODD: Diane Toscano says another teacher was then denied permission to search the child.

TOSCANO: He was told to wait the situation out because the school day was almost over.

TODD: CNN reached out to the school district, which declined to comment.

Parents like Mark Garcia Senior (ph) have been calling for change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Different principle, different administration.

TODD: Thomas Britton's son is in the same class as the alleged shooter but wasn't in school that day. His response to the allegations?

THOMAS BRITTON, FATHER OF STUDENT IN SHOOTER'S CLASS: I told my wife, after we saw it, I'll leave the expletives out, but I can't believe someone could be so blase or callous with the safety. Like, what is their job?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: James Ellenson, the attorney for the family of the alleged shooter, responded to the allegations from Abby Zwerner's attorney and to the planned lawsuit with an email to CNN saying that the family is continuing to pray for Abby Zwerner. That attorney had earlier told us that the gun had been secured with a trigger lock in the family's home and been kept on the top shelf of the mother's bedroom closet. But, Jim and Erica, he was not able to answer me when I asked him just how the child got access to that gun.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. To be a parent in that school, I can only imagine.

HILL: Yes, and that is an important question. I'm glad you keep asking it, Brian.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, the Memphis police chief warns that video from Tyre Nichols' encounter with five police officers may very well incite outrage, maybe even violence. We're live in Memphis as the city prepares for that video to be made public.

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