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Memphis Police Chief Walks Through the Video Capturing the Beating of Tyre Nichols. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 27, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:01:28]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

This morning, just incredible new details from the Memphis police chief describing what the nation will see today when her department releases videos of the violent January 7th arrest of 29-year-old Tyre Nichols. There he is.

Nichols died just days later from injuries he sustained during that police stop. Some of the images including from police body cameras described, including by the police chief, as appalling, horrific, inhumane.

HILL: Five Memphis police officers have been fired and charged with a number of felonies, including second-degree murder. And in an exclusive interview this morning, with CNN's Don Lemon, the police chief CJ Davis meticulously walked through what led up to that traffic stop, the beating of Tyre Nichols, and also talk about the ongoing investigations into the officers responsible.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The charges, these five officers have now been charged with second-degree murder in the death of Tyre Nichols. What's your reaction to these very serious charges?

CHIEF CERELYN "CJ" DAVIS, MEMPHIS POLICE: Well, I expected serious charges. I really did. Actually, the charges that were placed or at least the administrative charges were probably the most severe that I've seen in my career. But they were absolutely appropriate and I knew that the next step would be in the hands of the DA's office, so I'm not surprised.

LEMON: These are pretty extraordinary measures, I must say, in all the times that I've been covering these types of incidents to fire the officers and discharge them so strictly. Does that speak to what we're going to see on that videotape when it is released after 7:00 p.m. Eastern?

DAVIS: Absolutely. I think that, you know, it also speaks to the fact that, you know, over the last several years we have all talked about police legitimacy, you know, and police reform. And I think it's really important that in instances like this, when they are serious, when they are -- they do arise to that level where a person's constitutional rights have been violated, their civil rights have been violated, that we act and we act swiftly.

LEMON: When did you first learn about this incident, Chief?

DAVIS: It was probably about 4:00 in the morning, that -- the previous day, 8:00 at night, 9:00, this incident occurred. About 4:00 in the morning I learned of the incident. And it was just a strange summary of what occurred on the traffic stop. And I decided to go into the office and meet with the individuals that had information that I could take a look at it, even though at that time Tyre was in the hospital.

But still because he had injuries that just -- I just didn't understand. It was incomprehensible to me. We came in the office and decided to take a look at that Sunday morning. And it was alarming.

LEMON: That is when -- Sunday morning is when you first saw the video?

DAVIS: That's absolutely right.

LEMON: And then when you saw it, what was your reaction?

DAVIS: I was outraged. I was -- it was incomprehensible to me. It was unconscionable. And I felt that I needed to do something and do something quickly. I don't think I witnessed anything of that nature in my entire career.

LEMON: Really?

DAVIS: Really.

LEMON: That bad?

DAVIS: It was that bad.

LEMON: What are we going to see then?

[10:05:01]

DAVIS: You're going to see acts that defy humanity. You're going to see a disregard for life, duty of care that we're all sworn to, and a level of physical interaction that is above and beyond what is required in law enforcement. And I'm sure that, you know as I said before, that individuals watching will feel what the family felt. And if you don't, then you're not a human being. And we all are human beings. And I think that will there be a measure of sadness as well.

LEMON: How long do these incidents go on? We heard from the district attorney yesterday and from the head of the TBI that there were two separate incidents, right?

DAVIS: Yes.

LEMON: How long do they go on and when -- what was the worst part of it? Because it has been said that the officers became charged.

DAVIS: Yes.

LEMON: During the second incident. That they got more riled up.

DAVIS: Well, from the very beginning, to me they were riled up. You know. I don't think they were as amped up as they were at the second scene. But just the stop, the nature of the stop, very aggressive, loud, you know, communication and it was -- it just rose from there. It escalated from there.

Mr. Nichols was able to get away from these officers and they found him again at another location and at that point there was an amount of aggression that was unexplainable. You know. In any instance, when you're apprehending someone and even when there is resistance, officers still have the responsibility to exercise care and regard for any individual that is in custody or they're attempting to apprehend and they're trained to do that.

LEMON: And to de-escalate.

DAVIS: And to de-escalate. And that's a piece that I think is in question. But I think the escalation was there from the officers before training even needed to come in as it relates to de-escalation. The escalation was already at a high level.

LEMON: So you're saying they do everything wrong. You think this was outside of their training, everything.

DAVIS: Oh, absolutely.

LEMON: So you mentioned you said the nature of the stop.

DAVIS: Yes.

LEMON: Can we talk about the nature of the stop. Why -- what was the nature, why was he stopped?

DAVIS: Well, I'm going to be honest with you about the stop itself. What was said was that there was a witnessing of what was considered reckless driving. We've looked at cameras, we've looked at body worn cameras and even if something occurred prior to the stop, we've been unable to substantiate that at this time.

LEMON: You haven't been able to substantiate the reckless driving at all.

DAVIS: The reckless driving. No. We have not been able to substantiate the reckless driving.

LEMON: And that is why he was supposedly stopped, right?

DAVIS: And that is why he was supposedly stopped in the very beginning. And that was a concern. So of course in an investigation, we began to look at what was the probable cause for the stop, where were the cameras, was there some evidence on the body camera, on other cameras along those thoroughfares, and we've taken a pretty extensive look to determine, you know, what that probable cause was. And we have not been able to substantiate that. It doesn't mean that something didn't happen, but there is no proof.

LEMON: That the cameras didn't pick up.

DAVIS: The cameras didn't pick up.

LEMON: So before the incident you're looking at other cameras, other surveillance cameras around the city?

DAVIS: That's right. Around the city. Other thoroughfares. You know, even business cameras. Any video footage that we could potentially pick up to see what occurred prior to this stop. The information that we have right now based on what we could observe is the stop itself and the first officer exiting his vehicle, and you'll see that on the body worn camera, and at that time the officers were already, you know, aggressive and amped up.

LEMON: And amped up. And so you haven't found anything that substantiates the probable cause for reckless driving?

DAVIS: None at this time.

LEMON: And this was just within a couple of hundred feet of his home.

DAVIS: That is right.

LEMON: Of his home.

DAVIS: That's right. A few blocks away.

LEMON: OK. He was apprehended by the scorpion unit which was launched under your leadership in 2021.

DAVIS: Yes.

[10:10:02]

LEMON: Were they part of a street crimes unit? There was no -- were they looking for some other crime other than reckless driving from Tyre Nichols?

DAVIS: Absolutely. Well, you know, the Scorpion Unit, the acronyms, street crimes, operations to restore peace in our neighborhoods. The whole concept was based on the fact that we had an outcry because of three years of violence in the city. You know, numbers of violent crimes, robberies, homicides, aggravated assaults, and this is one of three teams whose primary responsibility is to reduce gun violence, to be visible in communities, and to also impact the rise in the crime basically out of an outcry from the community. We had record numbers in 2021, 346 homicides. So this unit was put together and they had great success, believe it or not, last year. It was the first year in a long time that we have reduction.

LEMON: So is this an indication of a failure in that unit? DAVIS: This is an indication that there is a gap somewhere in that

unit. My observation is that, you know, we have several contributing factors. We train and we retrain these officers just like specialized units around the country. These officers in working in specialized units, you always need to make sure that the supervision is there and present.

LEMON: Do you fear that they have done something like this in the past? Do you have any evidence of that?

DAVIS: Well, we don't have evidence at this particular time and looking at their disciplinary packages. However we're taking a deeper dive into previous arrests, previous video camera footage. We're also reached out to the IACP, who has -- who will work with the Department of Justice. We've asked the IACP and the Department of Justice to come in and take a look at our specialized units. We don't want any gaps in any of our units.

LEMON: I've heard about you from every single person that I've spoken to that said the buck stops with you.

DAVIS: Yes.

LEMON: Do you feel that you have any responsibility in this failure in this unit?

DAVIS: Well, I can't remove myself from responsibility. And, of course, we can't always be with our officers. But it is incumbent upon us to act and have checks and balances in place. But we have to rely on those individuals that are also in supervisory positions and commander's positions, but the accountability is throughout the police department. All the way up to the chief.

LEMON: Do you have any interaction with any of the officers in this unit?

DAVIS: I've met them, you know, just -- you know, one-on-one and had an opportunity to see them out, you know. Some of them and some of the other units have received recognitions and awards because of the reductions in crime. But this particular unit, even though you meet the officers, you don't know them as personally.

LEMON: Your impressions of them?

DAVIS: My impressions of them, you really -- they acted just like any other normal officer. You know, respectful when they see you. But what I saw in this video was more of a group think sort of mentality. You know, a group think and no one took a step to intercept or, you know, intervene. And that's why the charges are severe as they are.

LEMON: Does this speak to officer better training for the officers? Because you said it's a group think. That means there's something with the training, there is something within the department or police department where the group think can cause something like this to happen. DAVIS: And they have good training in that regard. I think one of the

gaps that, you know, I have observed since being here is that we need more supervisors in our police department. We have what we call a span of control, you know, issue and as we have eliminated a higher rank in the police department to create more supervisors.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Police chief there taking responsibility. After the break, you're going to hear the rest of the conversation including the chief's judgment that what she saw on this video -- videos was as bad if not worse than the 1991 beating of Rodney King. More to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:18:36]

SCIUTTO: As we wait the release of video showing the violent encounter between Tyre Nichols and Memphis police officers, we are hearing more of an exclusive interview this morning with CNN"s Don Lemon and the Memphis Police Chief CJ Davis.

HILL: Chief Davis said what we will see in that video is frankly unlike anything she's seen in her career.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: It has been said that it is reminiscent perhaps worse than the Rodney King video. Is that your assessment.

DAVIS: It's any assessment. I was in law enforcement during the Rodney King incident and it's -- you know, very much aligned with that same type of behavior.

LEMON: But that it's worse?

DAVIS: Sort of group think. I would say it's about the same if not worse.

LEMON: If not worse.

DAVIS: If not worse.

LEMON: So take us through the video tonight. When it is released. It has been said there is over an hour. There is the pole cam, they said the Skycam and there is body worn camera video. What are we -- and how is it going to be distributed? Are you going to put it on social media? Are you sending it to the media? How is this going to be distributed?

DAVIS: Actually, we plan to post it on a YouTube link so that it could be accessible to just about anybody who wants to access that video. And we'll be pushing that out later on this evening.

[10:20:01] The video is broken into four different sort of fragmented pieces. But they're all very relative to this -- to this incident. The initial stop, the stop near Tyre's home, and also body worn camera of individuals that were at that scene.

LEMON: Is it -- was it released later on a Friday after 6:30 Central Time, 7:00 Eastern Time? Was that -- we're told, I don't know if it's true, you can confirm it, it was so that the officers could leave the building safely in case there were protests?

DAVIS: No.

LEMON: No?

DAVIS: No. No, not at all.

LEMON: Then why?

DAVIS: Well, we think about the entire public, to tell you the truth. We thought about schools. We thought about business. And we felt like Friday afternoon, if there were individuals deciding they wanted to peacefully protest, at least other individuals would have, you know, gone home, schools would be out, and it wouldn't be as disruptive as it would have been if we released on a Wednesday afternoon.

LEMON: In this video, it is said that Tyre Nichols cries for his mother? Did you hear that?

DAVIS: I did. I heard him call out for his mother. For his mom. I did.

LEMON: And?

DAVIS: That's why this incident, not just that, but just the disregard for humanity as I mentioned before. I think that's what really just pulls at your heartstrings and makes you wonder why was a sense of care and concern for this individual just absent from this situation. All who went to the scene.

LEMON: Speaking of the people who went to the scene, have you spoken -- did you speak to any of the officers after?

DAVIS: I have not.

LEMON: You have not.

DAVIS: I have not.

LEMON: You spoke to the family of Tyre Nichols?

DAVIS: I have. I have. You know, I think I was just as emotional as they were. And you can't help but feel their pain. You can't help but even take ownership of what they are going through. And I've extended and availed myself to the family in the days to come, not just as, you know, a police chief, but as a mother, as someone who felt the pain of Miss Wells and her loss. And the sense of responsibility to do whatever I could, especially in the first steps of justice, you know, to terminate these officers and, you know, and hopefully the rest of this process towards justice will be as swift.

LEMON: In just moments, I'm going to speak to her and the stepfather. What do you say to them?

DAVIS: I continue to let them know that we pray for them and that I am still available. I extend heartfelt condolences and I think they know that. And, you know, we're going to be with them, you know, for the long haul.

LEMON: Why not speak to the officers after?

DAVIS: You know, there is not much you can say.

LEMON: Got it.

DAVIS: There is not much you could say.

LEMON: The policy for the Memphis Police Department requires officers to intervene, stop excessive force and report these incidents immediately. Did anyone on that video -- will we see that? Did anyone do that or will we see that on that video at all?

DAVIS: You will not see that on that video.

LEMON: There are two members of the fire department who are involved. What do you know about them and who are they?

DAVIS: I don't know them specifically. I know there are two officers or two firefighters that were paramedics and I believe that the fire chief quickly started an administrative investigation into their actions or inactions at that scene as well.

LEMON: What is their involvement? Do they fail to render proper care?

DAVIS: Based on the video, they failed to render proper care.

LEMON: Did they just stand by?

DAVIS: Based on my assessment. Yes. Yes. They just stood by.

LEMON: And didn't render care.

DAVIS: They began to render care and concern but it was long after several minutes, and which was, you know, concerning for all of us that we see a number of failures where individuals did not exercise the amount of care that we are responsible for, you know, no matter what -- no matter what the cause is, we are responsible for exercising care.

LEMON: I want to go back just real quickly and ask you, so do we know what sparked the confrontation at the initial stop?

DAVIS: I think that's the piece that is just unknown.

LEMON: No one knows.

DAVIS: No one knows. And it's obvious when you see this video that it begins at a high level.

[10:25:02]

Typically when we have traffic stops, something sparks or at least you're able to see what sparks this amount of aggression and physical, you know, activity with the driver. We cannot tell based on video what that was about.

LEMON: Well, when did the beating start? Was it initially or was it when he tried to run away?

DAVIS: There is physical interaction between Mr. Nichols and the driver at the very beginning as the officers are trying to get him out of the car. But it's still unknown what the original reason was for the stop in the first place.

LEMON: I have to ask you, it's five black officers. You're a black police chief in a black community. What do you make of the race of the officers and what that says to the community and to the country about the policing, the care?

DAVIS: Well, I think it does -- it takes off the table that issues and problems in law enforcement is about race. And it is not. It's about human dignity, integrity, accountability, and the duty to protect our community. And as this video will show you, it doesn't matter who is wearing the uniform, that we all have that same responsibility. So it takes race off the table. But it does indicate to me that bias might be a factor also in, you know, in the manner in which we engage the community.

LEMON: You've given -- I am so -- I appreciate -- I shouldn't say happy, but there's nothing happy about it. But I appreciate that you're taking the time to be so candid and to give us so much time. Is there anything that I missed, anything that you would like to say to the community, to the family, to the country, really about what you're dealing with here?

DAVIS: So as someone who has been involved in the whole police reform conversation, you know going before the Senate, it's just important for me as a leader to not just talk about police reform, but to take swift action and also to represent other law enforcement leaders who have also reached out, who also believe that the way we handled these types of things, and unfortunately a man has to die for us to get to a point where we could actually exercise what justice looks like.

But it is important for us to prove to the community that no matter what, we're going to do the right thing. And that we're going to work on our agencies, we're going to take a deeper dive and not just assume that officers are doing what they're supposed to do.

LEMON: Before I let you go, do you need help from Washington? There is a George Floyd Policing Act in Washington that is just sitting there?

DAVIS: Absolutely, absolutely.

LEMON: What do you say to our leaders? DAVIS: The George Floyd Policing Act, some of the recommendations I

was able to be part of, and actually that was part of my testimony. The duty to intervene. You know, ensuring choke holds are banned, ensuring that there are national registries for officers when they do bad. They can't move to other agencies. We want those laws passed. You know, those laws were put on the table and pushed to the side under the previous administration. Some of those laws need to be passed so that agencies around the country will have consistency in the manner in which we deal are our community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Such an important, such an informative, wide-ranging and candid interview between Don -- with the chief. Very interesting ending on that note about the George Floyd Policing Act, Justice and Policing Act, which of course passed the House, languished in the Senate. You know, President Biden, in terms of an executive order, there is still a real question about parts of this act, could this lead to a renewed push perhaps to pass some of that.

SCIUTTO: And certainly one act does not solve all the problems. The other thing that stood out to me, I'm sure and a lot of folks listening. I heard him call out for his mother, the chief said in his video. For his mom. I did. We could only imagine seeing that for ourselves as well.

HILL: Yes. Heartbreaking. And we are going to hear from the family of Tyre Nichols just ahead. Their devastating account of the night that they first learned of what happened to their son and how that ultimately led to his death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)