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Family And Attorneys Of Tyre Nichols Speak In Memphis. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired January 27, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

ROWVAUGHN WELLS, MOTHER OF TYRE NICHOLS: And, really, I want to say, I have never seen the video, but what I have heard is very horrific, very horrific.

And any of you who have children, please don't let them see it.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF TYRE NICHOLS: Ask for prayer. Ask for -- you could just ask for prayer, and that will be good.

WELLS: OK.

I just want to ask for prayer for my family, for my -- this whole community.

And I want to say to the five police officers that murdered my son, you also disgraced your own families when you did this. But you know what? I'm going to pray for you and your families, because, at the end of the day, this shouldn't have happened.

CRUMP: That's right.

WELLS: This just shouldn't have happened.

And we want justice for my son, justice for my son.

CRUMP: Justice for Tyre.

MEN AND WOMEN: Justice for Tyre.

CRUMP: Justice for Tyre.

MEN AND WOMEN: Justice for Tyre.

CRUMP: Justice for Tyre.

MEN AND WOMEN: Justice for Tyre.

WELLS: I just want to thank everybody again for coming.

I don't have -- I have a lot of words that I want to say, but they they're just not coming out right.

CRUMP: No, you're fine. WELLS: And I still haven't had time to grieve yet.

I'm still dealing with the death of my son. This is -- this was not supposed to happen. My son was supposed to be with me today. I will always know that I will always be with him, because I told everyone he has a tattoo on my name on his arm. My son loved me to death, and I love him to death.

CRUMP: Yes.

WELLS: And so this is very difficult for me. I'm sorry if I'm not articulating myself a little bit better.

CRUMP: No, you're doing fine.

(APPLAUSE)

WELLS: No mother, no mother, no mother should go through what I'm going through right now, no mother, to lose their child to the violent way that I lost my child.

Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUMP: OK, we will try to take your questions. And then we will have a prayer for peace from Bishop Williamson.

Yes, sir.

And, attorney Romanucci, you going to...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WELLS: My heart just breaks, sir.

For a mother to know that their child was calling them in their need, and I wasn't there for you, do you -- I mean, do you know how I feel right now because I wasn't there for my son? I told -- I had -- I was telling someone that I had this really bad pain in my stomach earlier, not knowing what had happened.

But once I found out what happened, that was my son's pain that I will feeling. And I didn't even know. But for me to find out that my son was calling my name, and I was only feet away, it -- did not even hear him, you have no clue how I feel right now, no clue.

CRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.

OK, we will trying to limit the questions for Ms. Wells. We will try to take all of them.

You asked, why hasn't it changed? Well, we have been dealing with racism and discrimination in America and racism across the world for hundreds of years. And it's going to have to be intentional being able to disseminate, deconstruct racism and bias. [13:05:08]

And, as I said, it is the institutionalized police culture. It's not just the police culture. It's the justice system. We have bias in every aspect of society. And so you don't see officers doing this to white citizens, because our court system has said that they value white life more than any other life.

And so we finally have to speak truth to power on these issues to say, the reason why we keep seeing it happen to black and brown people is because it is the culture in this society that we can marginalize brown and black people, that we can trample on the constitutional rights of black and brown people.

And that's why we have to continue to say, no, it's not equal justice for some. It's equal justice for all.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Yes, they have a right, as any American citizen, to have a reasonable bail, because they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

We don't want to change any of the standards because they are black police officers. Whatever has been done for other officers who are not black who committed these crimes on video, well, it should be equal justice. Everybody is presumed innocent until proven guilty in America.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

How do you think the police department (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Well, I'm asked my co-counsel, attorney Romanucci and attorney Turner to speak to those matters, Tony, from a national standpoint about these specialized units, and then attorney Turner out about here in Memphis.

ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF TYRE NICHOLS: So, your question was, we how do we clean this up?

Yes.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

ROMANUCCI: Well, you have to start with swift activity. And the swift activity is to call out, to stop and disband this unit, and then, from there, going in and restoring trust.

Well, how do you restore trust? How about community, real community policing, as opposed to suppression and racist policing? That's where you have to start. But let me tell you how your question matches the gentleman's question in the front row. Why do we see this continuing to happen?

I will give you two reasons. It's a two-way street. The community wants it. But the other side doesn't want it. The unions don't want it. This is like a carnival. You see the strong man trying to hit the target and make -- and ring the bell, and it's a rigged game?

Well, we try to ring the bell, but we can't because it's rigged. Until we start reform with municipalities and the union contracts, where real reform is baked in, that's when you will start seeing real changes

Number two, call out the lawmakers in Washington who failed on the George Floyd -- on the George Floyd Police Reform Act. Call them out. You want change, we need federal change, not only state change.

CRUMP: Well said.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUMP: Well said, attorney Romanucci.

Yes, Sarah (ph).

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Well, let's let her answer.

WELLS: Well, this happened...

CRUMP: Let's get you to the mic and...

WELLS: This particular incident happened on the weekend.

Tyre and his dad, they work for FedEx. They both work second shift, and they come home for lunch every day at 7:00. I would have dinner cooked. They would eat, hang out and go back to work.

[13:10:11]

Well, now my husband is coming home every day, but not my son. So...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WELLS: It was a Saturday. He was coming from Shelby Farms about the time of the incident, because he liked to go and watch the sunset and take pictures. That was his thing.

My son loved the sunsets. That was his passion. He loved photography. He loved skateboarding. He was just his own person. He didn't follow what everybody else was doing. I tried to buy him a pair of Jordans one time, and he: "Oh, my mama, I don't want those."

(LAUGHTER)

WELLS: He want some Vans, you know?

So, I'm just telling you guys, my son was a beautiful soul. He was a good boy. No one's perfect, but he was damn near. He was close to the home. QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WELLS: Yes. He was scared for his life. And just what I thought -- like I said, I didn't see the video, but everyone asked me what I thought happened. And I told them, the TBI people and everybody.

And I told them, now you prove me wrong.

CRUMP: And she said that before she knew about the video, just from seeing the photograph that they took in the hospital...

WELLS: Yes.

CRUMP: ... seeing him in the hospital that next day with his head swelled up, they said beyond recognition, and his neck swollen.

WELLS: Broken.

CRUMP: Yes.

WELLS: So...

CRUMP: Thank you.

I think, briefly, to try to respond to the first part of your question, as attorney Romanucci said, the police chief should disband the Scorpion unit immediately.

I am sad to even think that what you said is true, that they would use African-American officers to go berate African-American citizens because they thought it would get less attention. We know that the citizens have now come forward to my office saying that their constitutional rights were violated by the Scorpion unit and that they actually tried to report them, and nothing happened.

So, we cannot give anybody a pass on our constitutional rights, on our dignity, on our humanity. It doesn't matter if it's a black police officer or a white police officer. And that's what hurts so bad, because you want them to see the humanity in us. And you keep thinking to yourself, these officers got to understand that that could have been your brother, your little brother.

Tyre could have been your little brother. Would you want anybody to do what you were doing to Tyre to your little brother? And that's how you have to think about it, that what if this was my family member? Hopefully, every police officer in America is going to start thinking when they interact with a citizen, what if this was my brother or my sister or my child?

That's what we want. We want compassion and respect. The same way you de-escalate with white citizens, well, de-escalate with black citizens too. We all want to get home to our families. We want you to get home to your family, and we want to get home to our mama.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUMP: We will take a few more, yes, and let's go quick.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

And seeing the activists on the stage, what do you say to the activists that actually (OFF-MIKE) you all are (OFF-MIKE) but the activists is really the ones that's out there bringing attention to the families' situation. (OFF-MIKE)

And myself personally, in this field, have been pushed off by a legal team, knowing about that I'm standing for the families. And even talking to other activists that are actually standing for these families and actually are being (OFF-MIKE) what do you tell them now that they're the ones out terrorist fighting for the family and to be pushed and not to be heard?

(CROSSTALK)

[13:15:12]

CRUMP: Well, one of the first things I always try to do -- and Silky and Kareem and a lot of people who are activists end up working for my law firm, because, when you have a commitment to justice, that's what we want to be about.

And I always want to thank the activists. Every press conference, the first thing I do is come and thank the activists, because, without you all, we wouldn't be at this point. Nobody was talking about justice for Tyre like Kareem Ali and you all.

I mean, you all kept saying, there's something going on with this, attorney Crump. And I want to applaud you all privately and publicly, because, without you all, we wouldn't get justice for Tyre, we wouldn't have got justice for George Floyd, we wouldn't have got justice for Ahmaud Arbery, we wouldn't have got justice for Breonna Taylor. Without the activists serving as our co-counsels, there's no way we can get justice.

So we thank all the activist community.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUMP: All right, just two more, you two.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Well, I will say this, and then I will let Tony speak.

I think that the DA had the benefit of being able to slow down the tape and dissect the video and look at blow by blow, kick by kick, strike by strike what the police did, every aspect of it. So I want to believe that they tried to show respect to Mr. and Mrs. Wells and charge them with the most they felt they could get a conviction on.

And make no mistake about it. The video, when you all see it, you all try to think to yourself, what are the correct charges? Because we all don't -- we all got eyesight. We don't need anybody to interpret it for us. You look at that video for yourself. And you say, were the actions intentional?

I mean, when you're kicking somebody, and you -- it's not a reaction kick. You actually, like, stutter for a minute and make sure that you get the kick in, that seems intentional as anything you can imagine.

Attorney Romanucci?

ROMANUCCI: Yes, thank you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Hold just one second.

Let him respond to this and then...

ROMANUCCI: Yes, I just want to confirm.

Lest anybody ever thought that there was an exaggeration or an overstatement as to what you will see, number one, look at the charges, read the charges, and you will see that there has been none. Secondly, our independent medical autopsy, our medical examiner in this -- and I'm allowed to give the quote.

She said that these injuries are consistent with a severe beating. That is the quote. So, when you take that quote, and you understand what we have seen and what the charges are, those are maximum charges. Murder requires a little bit more something. And I agree with Ben that the state's attorney looked at these charges and did whatever they could.

Whether or not there's any other charges out there, well, maybe the evidence will bear that out. But don't forget, this is what the charges bear out, based -- when you look at the medical examiner and the charges, there's consistency.

CRUMP: Thank you, Tony.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUMP: And remember, on the video, there's audio, so you will hear audio. And that is very compelling, because it kind of tells what your intent is when you say things.

Yes, sir.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) stop was questionable. She said they have been unable to verify the reckless driving allocation.

I'm wondering, what can you tell us about the moments leading up to MPD making contact with Tyre?

CRUMP: Well, we look forward to getting the radio transactions and any calls that were made, because we don't know anything other than we got to see the video.

So they say he was driving recklessly. We have to see it. We certainly can't take their word for it. And, if not, then it goes to what attorney Romanucci said. A lot of these stops are pretext stops.

[13:20:02]

Yes, ma'am. And then I will come to you.

QUESTION: Good morning.

CRUMP: Good morning.

QUESTION: This is to Mr. and Mrs. Wells.

And I offer my sincere sympathies to you.

During the day, at my job, I wear (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Yes, ma'am.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WELLS: Right.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WELLS: Thank you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

(APPLAUSE)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Amen.

(APPLAUSE)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Thank you.

WELLS: Thank you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Thank you, Judge Chandler (ph).

WELLS: Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUMP: OK, last question.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) CRUMP: Yes, ma'am.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CRUMP: Yes, ma'am.

As a national civil rights attorney, we go to many municipalities and communities. And you often hear about other tragedies that happened before the high-profile case that's going on.

And what we try to do is try to lift all of the injustices up. And we try to speak to all of those. And, hopefully, at future rallies for justice for Tyre, we invite those families to stand with Ms. Wells and Mr. Wells, because none of these tragedies are any more important than any of the others. All of our children matter.

And we have to continue to say that. Each and every one of our children have a right to live on this earth, to breathe another breath. And so we have to continue to do that. I would hope that the city leadership, if the Department of Justice deems it appropriate to have a pattern and practice investigation of the Memphis Police Department, that they will welcome it, that they won't try to fight or object to it, hopefully that the city council members will say that, we want to have an internal audit of it ourself.

Let's just don't look outward and try to get resentful when Crump and all us lawyers start saying that there's a problem with police culture, because the best way to solve the problems for the police, to work with the community and be transparent...

[13:25:17]

CRUMP: ... accept accountability and build trust.

That is how you can deal with this culture. And they may attack us and try to say, oh, they continue to attack police. As we have often said, we're not anti-police. We're anti-bad police who kill Tyre, who kill George Floyd, who lie and kill Breonna Taylor, who and kill out Alton Sterling, all these people who -- Ronald Greene, I meant.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jalen Randle.

CRUMP: Jalen Randle, absolutely.

We are against those officers who skirt the rules to justify these unjustifiable killings of our children, Judge Chandler.

That's who we're against. And if you want to help us -- if you want to take this argument away from us, then help us fix the police culture where we can go another month, two months, three months, four months, five months, without the media rushing to the next city to report on the latest hashtag that becomes part of American society.

And you all know the names. We don't even have to explain them to you. That's how bad it is, when we say Michael Brown, when we say Tamir Rice, when we say Alton Sterling, when we say Eric Garner, when we say Stephon Clark, when we say Laquan McDonald, when we say Philando Castile, when we Daunte Wright, when we say Amir Locke, I mean -- Atatiana Jefferson.

I mean, is that not a systematic problem with the culture when you have these many unarmed black people dying? We're not talking about people who got guns coming at the police, because we look at the data.

Attorney Romanucci, Van Turner, I mean, these are great lawyers. We don't just go willy-nilly. We look at statistics. We look at when the police have to use deadly force with white citizens, it's normally when a citizen has a deadly weapon. That's not true when we look at deadly encounters for black people and police.

I mean, how many times do we have to hear another black man was shot in the back while he was running away from the police and the police say, I'm in fear of my life?

That doesn't happen often with...

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: You're listening here to Ben Crump, the attorney for the family of Tyre Nichols.

And standing beside him were Tyre Nicholas' parents, RowVaughn Wells and his father, his stepfather, Rodney Wells. This is coming on a day that we are expecting that, sometime after 7:00 p.m. Eastern time tonight, we will be seeing the video of that stop and arrest that led to a beating and that led to the death of 29-year-old Tyre Nichols.

Five now former officers are involved and are facing murder and kidnapping charges. Seasoned officials who have seen this video have been absolutely shaken by the brutality of it all, the Memphis police chief telling CNN's Don Lemon this morning that it depicts acts that she said -- quote -- "defy humanity."

To break this all down, I'm joined now by former Washington, D.C., police Chief Charles Ramsey, who now advises police departments across the country as a consultant. And also with us is criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Chief Ramsey, I want to start with you, because we heard from the family over the course of the last hour a clear determination that they don't want their son's death to be in vain. And what they are asking for now is for accountability from this police department and the disbandment of a unit that seemed to have been involved in this stop.

They're called the Scorpion unit. They are saying that these units are responsible for brutality, for a wolf pack mentality. What's your reaction to that?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, it was very powerful testimony.

And, I mean, you can just feel the -- and sense the pain that the family is going through. And they certainly have my condolences on that.