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Memphis To Release Video Of Nichols' Arrest After 7PM ET Tonight; Body Cam Footage Shows Attack On Paul Pelosi; Frank Colvett, (R), Memphis City Councilman, Discusses Fatal Nichols' Arrest Video To Be Released Tonight. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 27, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, it was very powerful testimony. And I mean you can just feel the -- and sense the pain that the family is going through. And certainly, they have my condolences on that.

As far as the actions being requested, I'm sure Chief Davis is going to take a very hard look at that unit and any other unit like it.

You have to be able to screen the individuals that are going into a unit like that as well as the supervisors. Specialized units are needed in policing. But they have to be well supervised.

I know nothing about the Scorpion Unit, whether it should be disbanded or whatever should take place. That's going to be up to the police chief.

But certainly when you look at specialized units and you have to have some flexibility to deal with crime that is taking place in these neighborhoods.

But the officers in it have to perform their duties in a constitutional way. They cannot be abusive in any way. If you see that, then you have to take the appropriate actions.

So I think a lot of people are going to be taking a hard look at their units that are not tied to the radio, specialized unit.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Joey, we heard earlier from the police chief that they are now scouring the records of these officers, not just for things that might be in their file, but also looking at other stops that they might have made that perhaps didn't end in someone dying.

But they're all now, five officers facing these murder charges and also these kidnapping charges. But some of these attorneys for the accused officers are saying that their clients, maybe they didn't participate in the physical beating.

My question to you is, do you think that matters from the perspective of the prosecutors wanting to sustain the charges against all five of these former officers? JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Abby, so a lot to un unpack. The

first thing I'm struck by, before pivoting to the question, is the humanity of the mom.

This is a mother who lost her child, whose child meant everything to her. As any parent will tell you, will give their life for their child. Talking about the bond that they shared, et cetera.

But yet she gave those police officers what they did not give her son, prayer, right, forgiveness, the fact that, you know, she just holds no hate in her heart about them.

And I think that's remarkable testament to her spirituality and what she -- you know, her belief and her faith, which is incredible. Just had to say that.

In terms of your question as it relates to the officers, Abby, you know, there's a doctrine of law called Mere Presence.

And Mere Presence alone at any criminal event or activity is not enough. You have to establish that you were a participant, that you engaged in some kind of conduct that would lead to criminality.

Why is that relevant? It's relevant because, with the charge, what these seasoned prosecutors and certainly law enforcement officials, they know this doctrine.

And so what it means to me, if they charged everyone, Abby, is that these officers were collective participants with respect to what happened here.

Now, obviously there's due process. I'm big on that. We all should be big on due process, as Ben Crump noted when he was asked a question concerning bail, and certainly these officers will have their day in court.

However, to the extent they've all been charged with something similar, what that means to me, that there's a theory that you are acting in concert, that each of you had some role, which was significant as it related to the final outcome here.

And so I think, as we wait for this video, Abby, we'll be looking to dissect it to understand what was the immediate threat, if any.

Were their actions proportionate to whatever threat was posed and did they act reasonably? All indications to this point are that they did not.

PHILLIP: And I want to wrap up here where you began, Joey. I mean, this is a family that's in profound pain right now. But what we've seen all day and all week as this has transpired is incredible grace and determination.

Chief Ramsey and Joey Jackson, please stand by for us.

[13:34:03] We're going to get back to the Nichols investigation in a moment. We're going to take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: Just into CNN, brand-new video of the violent late-night attack on Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, starting from the moment the suspect broke into the couple's home last year.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is joining us now.

Veronica, walk us through this brand-new video that's been released and what exactly it shows.

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Abby, we read about all this evidence last year when David DePape was arrested. However, this is the first time we are hearing and seeing everything that happened.

There's the 911 call made by Paul Pelosi from the bathroom when all of this was unfolding. There's surveillance video from the backyard, which shows David DePape entering the Pelosi residence.

There's that very disturbing body camera video which shows the attack on camera as police responded to the Pelosi residence.

And then there's a more than 15-minute interview with police in which David DePape pretty much admits to everything and goes step by step of what he did.

So let's start with that surveillance video in the backyard. You can see David DePape go and try to smash through the glass. It shows him trying to smash the doorknob and trying to break in.

And he admitted later to officers the glass was very difficult to break through. He eventually was able to climb in.

Now, we're going to go to the body camera video just released.

I want to warn you, it is very disturbing. And we are showing it in its entirety.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(KNOCKING)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Are you sure this one?

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: 2629?

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: No, 2640.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Yes, just let me send that.

[13:40:00]

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Hi, how are you doing?

PAUL PELOSI, HUSBAND OF FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: Come on in.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: What's going on, man?

DAVID DEPAPE, ACCUSED OF ATTACKING PAUL PELOSI: Everything's good.

PELOSI: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Drop the hammer.

DEPAPE: No.

PELOSI: Hey, hey.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: What is going on around here?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: I got him , I got him.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Whoa.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Backup, Code 3.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: Very difficult video to watch. Paul Pelosi suffered a skull fracture from that injury. And his wife, Nancy, says he is still in recovery from that and it could take months.

But that interview after his arrest, David DePape's arrest, he lays out everything. It's an audio recording that I just listened to. I took a lot of notes so bear with me a little bit.

I want to take you through some of the highlights and what led up to that moment.

David DePape admits to breaking in and he says that it was a very big house and he went there to find Nancy and was thinking when he got inside because it was so empty maybe she's not here.

He eventually was able to find Paul Pelosi who was sleeping in his bed, he said, and that's when they started talking, obviously. He said that Paul Pelosi was very surprised to see him.

And he said that he told Paul Pelosi that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and he wanted to talk to her, but Paul Pelosi said she's not here. And it sounded like, based on his conversation, that David DePape knew that Paul Pelosi was trying to keep things calm in order to not escalate the situation.

David DePape admitted to an investigator he wanted to tie him up so he could do what he needed to do but Paul was able to get out of bed and eventually make his way to the bathroom where he made that 911 call, which we've also listened to that audio.

And you can hear Paul Pelosi trying to subtly tell the 911 dispatcher that somebody has come into the house looking for Nancy Pelosi.

And it's around that time that David DePape admitted to the investigator in his interview he started to get agitated because he was there for a purpose.

He said he wanted to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and talk to her and, if she told the truth, he would let her go. If not, he said he was going to break her kneecaps because it needed to be done.

He repeatedly talked about in his interview about going to the Pelosi residence to fight tyranny like the Founding Fathers, that he wasn't actually there for Paul but that he would go through him if he had to.

And he didn't want to surrender because he wanted to fight evil. And so Paul Pelosi got the punishment instead.

All of this on camera, on audio. And it's incredibly telling. Of course, we've heard about this in the motion to detain but seeing it for yourself is an entirely different story -- Abby?

PHILLIP: It very much is. It's incredibly disturbing.

Thank you, Veronica, for all of that reporting.

And we have Joey Jackson back with us, criminal defense attorney.

Joey -- Charles Ramsey is also with us.

Joey, I want to get your quick reaction to that extraordinary and quite graphic video we just saw?

JACKSON: Yes, Abby, it's very compelling. Remember that trials are about bringing the jury, in the event it goes that far, to the location to have them get a sense of what occurred, right?

That's why you bring forward witnesses and give them and have them proffer information.

So it could be evaluated by a jury if it goes forward to make an assessment as to whether the conduct is the conduct as they're being accused of and as is described.

Remember, he's facing -- that is, Paul Pelosi's attacker -- both a state prosecution and federal prosecution. The state, of course, charging him with attempted murder, burglary, kidnapping and assorted charges.

And the federal government charging him, rightfully and properly, not only as it relates to Paul Pelosi, because he's married to, an immediate family member, the husband of Nancy Pelosi, but for his attempt to kidnap Nancy Pelosi.

So I think this goes a long way with respect to actually proving that those charges are correct.

PHILLIP: All right, Chief Ramsey and Joey Jackson, please stay with us.

[13:44:10]

Coming up ahead, police, the legal community, the entire Memphis community is reeling from what we are seeing and hearing about that incident with Tyre Nichols. We'll have more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: We're back now with our coverage of the death of Tyre Nichols. City council members in Memphis were just given a chance to watch that video.

We are now joined by Memphis city councilman, Frank Colvett.

Councilman, what can you tell us about what you have just seen?

FRANK COLVETT, (R), MEMPHIS CITY COUNCILMAN: Abby, I have seen the video, at least I've seen the beginnings of it. I believe the video that will be released is about an hour long.

It is as appalling as we have been led to believe. It is sickening,

But I want to reassure everyone that the legal process is going to go forward and the accused are going to have their day in court. They are going to be charged, as they have been, and they are going to answer to these charges.

[13:50:11]

This is not Memphis. This is not indicative of the Memphis Police Department.

As I've said before, 1,900 officers showed up yesterday, they showed up today, and they'll show up tomorrow. We're going to keep our city safe, for residents, for property, for all of our guests.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Councilman, can I ask you, when you saw the video -- there are five officers charged -- did you see evidence of all of the officers being involved in the beating, some of them being involved in the beating.

What did you see there? Can you walk us through it? COLVETT: I have to be slightly careful, because there are legal

interests involved.

And the images are rather challenging in terms of, if you see it just one time, trying to figure out who's who, which of the five is -- or who's doing what. But the actions are clear.

PHILLIP: And the chief has said that the officers involved in this were very aggressive from the very beginning. You said you were able to see the video, the beginning part.

How would you characterize how this stopped, started, and how it escalated?

COLVETT: What you will see in the video, at least the first part, because I have not seen all of it. I came down to get on with you here.

But you can see from the body cam of the first video where they're trying to put him in handcuffs, Tyree, and that Tyre runs, and I believe they tased him and pepper sprayed him at that point. He ran.

And then you'll see an image where I think it's through one of our sky cops of the police striking Mr. Nichols several times.

PHILLIP: Was it clear to you from the stop why he was pulled over in the first place?

COLVETT: We have been told -- and I have not seen the officer's report -- but we have been told, and I believe I read it in the media, that he was pulled over for reckless driving. And that's the reason for the stop.

Like I said, I have only seen two of the four videos, I believe it is. So all you really see is the police officer -- the body cam, you see the blue lights come on and him getting out of the car and trying to apprehend Tyree.

So that's -- you know, that's why they stopped him is what has been said in the press.

PHILLIP: There's been a lot of talk about this unit that these officers were a part of. We discussed looking at the Memphis Police Department more wholistically.

The call now, though, is for this unit to be disbanded. It was formed back in November of 2021 by the current police chief. Do you think that this unit should be disbanded?

COLVETT: What I think we ought to do right now is let's all see the video for those that wish to see it, and let's process that. Because a man was killed. A man that was killed who was in the charge of the Memphis Police Department.

And I think we have to get through and process this - because, Abby, I'm a parent. Yes, it's hard to watch that. But what I think we ought to do, when we have had a chance to process

this, is proceed with our top gun investigation of the police department, look into enhanced ways to look into the mental inventory of police recruits.

But also, look, the Scorpion team was, as I understand it, was designed to, for lack of a better word, through crime data, go into the higher crime data that we're experiencing higher crime at that point, and go after the criminals in search of them.

If this is indicative of the Scorpion Unit, obviously it will be disbanded.

What I think we ought to do is let's process about what we're about to see and then let's thoughtfully, logically evaluate all this, and what we need to do, and go forward so that we keep Memphis and the people of Memphis safe.

PHILLIP: I want to give Charles Ramsey, who is still with us, the last word here.

Chief Ramsey, what do you make of all of this?

RAMSEY: Well, obviously, the chief is going to have to take a careful look at that unit, the members of the unit, their backgrounds, histories and so forth. Whether or not it needs to be disbanded or not, that's a decision that will have to be made.

[13:55:00]

There's value in specialized units. But it also points to the need to make sure that you carefully screen the officers that are assigned, that you monitor very carefully.

If you do receive any complaints, that you thoroughly investigate to make sure you don't have people in there abusing people's rights, and make a determination based on that.

But this is a tragedy no matter how you cut it. The councilman is absolutely right.

When you see it, it's going to be a bit -- I would imagine it's going to be a bit chaotic when we first see it. It will be hard to determine who is doing what. I've had cases like that.

But obviously, the district attorney has had a chance to isolate each individual. Based on the charges, they were all involved.

I'm wondering if there were other cops just standing around watching and failed to intervene. That's also a possibility as well.

PHILLIP: It certainly is. And we will see it all for ourselves in just a few hours.

But that does it for me here in the NEWSROOM.

The news will certainly continue right after this break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)