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Memphis Police Deactivates Scorpion Unit After Deadly Beating Video; At Least Seven Dead In Shooting Near Jerusalem Synagogue; Patrice Robinson, (D), Memphis City Council Member, Discusses Memphis Police Deactivating "Scorpion" Unit After Deadly Beating Video; Trump On Campaign Trail: I'm More "Angry," "Committed" Than I Ever Was; Trump Calls Video Of Tyre Nichols Beating "Absolutely Horrible"; Alex Murdaugh Is On Trial, Charged For Killing His Wife And Son In June Of 2021. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 28, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:24]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Breaking news: CNN has just learned Memphis police have permanently disbanded the Scorpion Unit, that is the police unit associated with officers involved in the killing of Tyre Nichols, the 29-year-old man who was beaten after a traffic stop.

The videos we're about to show you are graphic and disturbing, but of course, they are critical to understanding what happened to this 29- year-old man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TYRE NICHOLS, KILLED BY MEMPHIS POLICE: Mom. Mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hand.

NICHOLS: Mom. Mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: As you can hear there in the video, Nichols cries out for his mother, who was just a few blocks away. Officers continued to hit and spray Nichols, struggling with him on the ground.

More footage appears to show inaction by police officers, sheriff's deputies and paramedics there on the scene. Five Memphis police officers at the scene are facing multiple charges, including second- degree murder and kidnapping. Now, two sheriff's deputies at the scene were placed on leave pending an investigation.

And CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live for us in Memphis. Shimon, we'll talk about the horrific video in just a moment, but we do have new breaking news -- information coming in this afternoon, and that is that the Memphis police department has permanently disbanded the Scorpion Unit that has come under so much scrutiny over the last several days.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And this is significant news, Jim, for this police department that has been using this unit to fight crime, they say, in this area. Some of it important work, according to the police chief.

But now, as a result of this incident, it is being disbanded. And the reason why is because these five officers, former officers who are now under indictment, were part of this unit, they drove around in unmarked cars, aggressive actions to try and fight crime.

But they are no longer, and this will be welcome news by certainly people in this community. And this is something the family called for yesterday. They came out and they said, we believe that this unit should no longer exist.

Today, just moments ago, the Memphis Police Department announcing that they are deactivating this team. Let me just read to you Jim, a portion of what the police department said. It says that they met with this unit, officers from this unit today, and given what these officers that still remain on this unit, the family members and community leaders, the police chief has decided that they should deactivate the unit.

And of course, she says look, just because of these five officers, we shouldn't paint the entire unit in a bad light. Well, if you talk to some people here in the community, they will tell you that they have raised issues and concerns over this unit.

So this will be welcome news for the community, for the family, and really some who have called for further police reforms all across the country. And the police department should not use these kinds of units to fight crime.

When you think about the day when this happened, more than now 20 days ago, back on January 7th, and you look at the initial actions by these officers on that day that were part of this Scorpion Unit, you could see just how aggressive they were.

When they pulled over Tyre Nichols, really within seconds they're pulling him out of the car, getting aggressive, put him to the ground, pepper spray is used.

He then escapes these former officers and runs, essentially running for his life, you could tell he feels that way.

And then they get to a second location. And at that second location, just 80 yards from his home, from his mother's home, is where the beating takes place. And you could see from this camera that's above, that's up on a pole, officers punching him, kicking him, using a metal baton called an asp over the head, just beating him.

And then you see moments later he's up against a car, his head swiveling to the left and then they move him back to upright him and then he goes to the right.

[17:04:51]

PROKUPECZ: And then of course, it's the medical professionals, the medical technicians who arrive on scene and then there are moments and moments that go by where he is not given any kind of medical treatment.

All of this captured on all this video, horrific, of course, Jim, to watch. And it's also the sounds of the officers and the words that they were using and what they were saying. At moments trying to make up a Story of why they chased Tyre Nichols, one of them claiming that Tyre eve tried to grab his weapon.

Of course, the police have said there was no justification -- so far they've found no justification for why they even stopped Tyre Nichols, not that it matters.

But this investigation of course, continues. You can see there were several other officers on scene. And the status of those officers is unclear at this point as the Memphis police say that they are continuing to investigate and also the district attorney here says that he's continuing his investigation and that there could be some more charges coming, certainly in the coming months, Jim.

ACOSTA: Shimon, it sounds as though this move by the Memphis Police Department is a pretty obvious effort at doing some damage control. They are deactivating this unit after some outcry from the family and community over the last day or so.

But this incident occurred, this killing occurred weeks ago. And it sounds as though they have responded to this outcry just in the last couple of days. But you know, when we were talking to the city council chairman in the last hour he was saying he has big questions to ask not only about what the police department has been doing but what the police chief has been doing in response to all of this. It sounds like they have a lot of explaining to do.

PROKUPECZ: They do, Jim. And I think the police chief here, C.J. Davis, who has been given a lot of credit for terminating the officers so quickly, moving to have this investigation move at a rapid pace, and of course the indictment by the district attorney, and then of course the release of this video last night.

However, I think the councilman is absolutely right, because we've not heard from the police chief for 20 days. Yesterday was the first time, you know, our colleague Don Lemon, spoke to her, and it was the first time that she took questions from the press.

She's not taken any press conferences. There really were no answers for days while the investigation was ongoing. I, myself, sent several questions to the Memphis Police Department, wanting to know some basic questions days ago. Police Department

I asked them, were these officers part of the Scorpion Unit because I had some information that they were, and they wouldn't answer even that question to me. They basically said everything is under investigation.

So yes, I agree with the council member that there are other questions that need to be answered. And also think about this, Jim. The police chief here told Don Lemon that she was notified about this about eight hours after it happened, on January 7th, this happens around 8:00 -- 8:30 at night. She doesn't get notified until 4:00 in the morning. And there are some other questions about what the family was told in the initial stages of what happened here and the delay in that and some of the excuses, according to the family, that the officers were giving to the family about what happened here.

So certainly, there are still a lot of questions, and while you can give the police chief credit for moving so quickly and taking action in firing these officers, there's still a lot of other questions that need to be answered and they just can't continue hiding behind the fact that there's this ongoing investigation.

Because now there's a Department of Justice investigation. That's going to take some time. And you know, the other part of this is that the Department of Justice could come in here. They can make a decision here that they want to come in here and look at the patterns and practices of this police department.

That is something that could happen. So the police chief probably has to make a decision at some point of whether or not she's going to address some of these questions, some of the actions of the Scorpion Unit in previous situations.

So I certainly think, Jim, you raise a good point and that council member is certainly raising a good point as well.

ACOSTA: Very big questions to answer. All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you very much for that update.

Breaking news coming into CNN.

We'll continue the conversation now. Joining me now retired LAPD sergeant Cheryl Dorsey and attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin.

Sergeant Dorsey, let me start with you. We just learned this news that the Memphis Police Department has deactivated this Scorpion Unit that some of the officers were a part of. Let me get your reaction to that.

Shimon Prokupecz was just telling us a few moments ago he had been asking for days whether or not these officers were a part of that unit. The police department did not want to get into that. They were saying everything was under investigation.

Of course, we found out later that they were part of the unit and now this unit has been disbanded. What are your thoughts?

[17:09:54]

SGT. CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE OFFICER: So let me say this, because Chief Davis is in CYA mode, right? She understands that she serves at the pleasure of a mayor. And we know now that that there have been others who have come forward and complained about these officers and she's allowed it.

There was smoke and she failed to recognize it until it was a full- blown fire. And now we know that there was a couple of deputies on scene. So she had to see them there in terms of transparency, not so much. She didn't call her sheriff neighbor next door to say hey, let me give you a heads-up, you've got a couple of officers over here who are on the scene and things really went sideways.

And the other problem that she has, Jim, is that these officers were partially fired for beating Mr. Nichols to death, but also for giving false and misleading statements. That means they lied.

So that means every 500 arrests that that Scorpion Unit was involved with will now be dismissed by the district attorney. So he's got some work to do. And she understands all of that.

While officers have been disbanded and the united has been broken down, they're still on the department. And just like she got rid of those five in two weeks, she can get rid of everybody who was on scene who acquiesced that misconduct, committing misconduct themselves.

She's got problems and she understands that and maybe that's why she's hiding. She needs to go as well.

ACOSTA: Areva this news is not surprising when you see the body cam video that was released to the public last night, that overhead footage as well. Let's watch a little bit of that and I'll ask you about it on the other side other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hands. I'm going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of you. Give us your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hands. Give us your hands. Give us your hands. Give us the hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me your hand. Give me your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hands. Give me your hands (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Give me your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Areva, you know, after watching this footage, we've had about a day to absorb this, it does call into question what was going on inside this Scorpion Unit that was just disbanded by the Memphis Police Department.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. and I agree with everything that Cheryl Dorsey said. I've been calling for the resignation, firing of this police chief as well because yes, she did come out and fire the five officers who are on this videotape, but there's so many unanswered questions about this unit.

One of the things that was so glaring to me was the lack of supervision. No one seemed to be in control that night. There seemed to be no senior officer there to pull back these more junior officers, to step in, to protect the constitutional rights that Mr. Nichols had and that's a flaw that she is responsible for.

So you can't talk about what these police officers did without doing a thorough investigation of this entire police department.

And I do believe that the Justice Department, in addition to looking at criminal civil rights charges against the five officers, and potentially more officers who were on the scene, that they are going to do an investigation of this entire police department because there are citizens who have come forward and said that this unit has acted in this same aggressive manner that we saw in this tape.

And where do these officers get off, Jim, with the language that they use? I felt like we were watching a gang initiation, not professional police officers or public safety officers doing their job. It was just beyond the pale what we have all witnessed.

ACOSTA: You're absolutely right and we're learning in just the last several minutes that all five officers charged in this case were members of that now disbanded Scorpion Unit.

And Cheryl, let me go to you because as Areva was just saying a few moments ago, the language from the officers in various parts of the video, I just don't get -- how does it go from a traffic stop, you know, zero to 60, so to speak, to a point where these officers just lost -- appear to have lost all control?

DORSEY: Well, my guess would be is that this is how these officers interact with everyone that they stop. And when you understand that great deference is given to what a police officer says, when a citizen comes in to complain, you've got four or five officers saying I don't know what he's talking about, we didn't do that.

And so a supervisor may very well go with what the officer's version of events are, rather than sit down and have a conversation with this individual themselves to find out what really went on. I think those officers, no doubt, lied about their interaction with Tyre Nichols initially.

[17:14:54]

DORSEY: And it wasn't until probably a supervisor went to the hospital and saw his injuries and called the chief and woke her up and said hey, you've got a problem on your hands over here, that she decided to look at that sky camera because that's what she said, to see what really went on.

And then once she realized what was going on, she had to act in the way that she did to do damage control. But that was too little, too late. Those guys have been out there cutting up, acting up, come to the station with citizen complaints and they get pooh-poohed away. And so she's got to go.

ACOSTA: And Areva, the other question in all of this, you can talk about the Scorpion Unit and the officers who were involved in that unit. There were -- I mean you look at the overhead video, you know, you see all of these other officers milling around and there's the fact that it was 20 to 30 some odd minutes before any kind of medical aid was rendered to Tyre Nichols.

I mean, how critical is the delay in him getting that aid, including the fact that these officers are just standing around while Nichols is slumped over like a sack of potatoes on the side of this car? How much did that contribute to his death, do you think?

MARTIN: Oh, I think it was a great contributing factor to his death. Not only the medical personnel on the scene, Jim. Those officers had a duty to render aid themselves. If an officer shoots someone or injures someone, they don't get to, you know, just do nothing and stand there idle. They have an obligation to try to preserve that individual's life.

That is their job, to render aid and to provide some kind of care for that individual. They go, as we saw on that videotape, were standing around trying to create some alibi, some story that was so ridiculous. One guy was limping and one guy is saying, oh, he grabbed for my gun, did you see him when he got off the car and he swung at me.

All of these ridiculous statements that were contradicted by what we saw with our very eyes. And I presume those were the lies that they went into the police station and told their superiors.

And I was thinking all along, what possibly are they going to say that would justify the kind of injuries that we saw Mr. Nichols, those injuries that he sustained. What lie would they tell that would be convincing to anyone that this man, Mr. Nichols, deserved the kind of injuries that he suffered at the hands of those police officers.

There wouldn't be a lie that would protect them from criminal prosecution. But yet, we heard one of the lawyers say one of the ex- officers was surprised. Really? Are they that dumb? Are they that tone-deaf?

I don't even know if they should be on the police force, if they somehow thought that that man could lie in a bed with those injuries and they not face criminal charges.

ACOSTA: Well, I have to say, if we did not have these body camera, you know, units in operation, if we did not have that overhead camera, my goodness, would we even be having this conversation right now? Would we even know what happened to Tyre Nichols?

Thank goodness for those cameras and thank goodness that law enforcement personnel have to wear these cameras now because they are just a godsend in trying to figure out what happened in too many of these police brutality cases.

Cheryl Dorsey, Areva Martin -- thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

Coming up, at least seven people are dead after a gunman opened fire near a synagogue in Jerusalem. There was another shooting earlier in the day. Things are escalating over there. We'll talk about that next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:18:19]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Tensions are high in Israel and the Palestinian territories after more violence in Jerusalem today. Two people were wounded in a shooting one day after a gunman killed at least seven people near a synagogue in the city.

CNN's Hadas Gold has the latest from Jerusalem.

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it's been three days of bloodshed for both Israelis and Palestinians as concerns really reach new heights that this latest round of violence could develop into something even bigger.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOLD: Two shooting attacks rocked Jerusalem just 15 hours apart in what Israeli officials are calling one of the worst terrorist attacks in recent memory.

Saturday morning, police say a 13-year-old Palestinian boy shot and injured two men just outside the old city, before being shot and injured himself.

And then the previous evening at a synagogue in northeast Jerusalem after Shabbat services, authorities say a 21-year-old Palestinian from east Jerusalem began shooting worshippers as they left, killing seven and including 14-year-old Asher Natan (ph) and injuring three more before fleeing by car. Minutes later, he was shot and killed by police.

DEAN ELSDUNRE, ISRAELI POLICE INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: This is a significant rise in the level of terror that we have seen and it marks a heinous attack on the holy sabbath day.

GOLD: The shooting celebrated in parts of Palestinian territories, coming the day after what became the deadliest day for Palestinians in the West Bank in over a year.

And unusual daylight raid by the Israeli military on Thursday in the occupied West Bank, targeting members of the Islamic jihad, the Israeli military said who were planning, they say, an imminent attack.

The ensuing firefight killing nine, among them militants but also a woman in her 60s, according to the Palestinian Health authorities.

KIFAYA OBEID, DAUGHTER OF WOMAN KILLED (through translator): She opened the window to look over to check what's going on. A bullet hit her here in her neck. The bullet hit the wall and TV screen.

GOLD: The Palestinian authority calling the raid a massacre, announcing they were severing security coordinations with Israel as a result. And then rockets launched by militants (INAUDIBLE) toward Israel. Israel responding with air strikes although no injuries were reported on either side.

The past few days a major test for the recently installed government under Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu under pressure from his right wing cabinet to respond with force.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I will bring to the cabinet additional measures to fight terrorism. This includes significantly speeding up and expanding gun licensing for licensed citizens.

[17:24:52]

NETANYAHU: As we have seen time and time again, including this morning, this thing saves lives.

GOLD: international condemnations and sympathies poured in including by President Joe Biden as U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken prepares to make a pre-planned trip to the region where his meetings with Israeli and Palestinian leadership under even higher stakes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLD: What will likely be one of the major topics of discussion for Secretary of State Blinken when he meets with the Israelis and the Palestinians will be to restore the security coordination that the Palestinian Authority announced they were severing on Thursday with the Israelis after that military raid in Jenin. The security coordination amongst what it does is also sharing of intelligence between the Israeli and Palestinian Authority, really seen by many experts as a way to prevent violence and terrorism.

The Palestinian Authority had previously cut off its coordination in 2020 for six months and experts I've spoken to say that they are really concerned about what could happen now if that coordination is not restored soon, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Hadas, thank you.

Coming up, we continue to follow the breaking news at this hour. The city of Memphis has permanently disbanded the police unit associated with the five former officers now charged with the murder of Tyre Nichols.

I'll get reaction from a member of the Memphis city council next.

[17:26:09]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:22]

ACOSTA: Back now with breaking news. The Memphis Police Department now says it will permanently deactivate the Scorpion Unit in the wake of Tyre Nichols' death.

All five former Memphis police officers charged in Nichols' fatal beating were members of that unit.

Joining us to talk about this is the Memphis city council member, Patrice Robinson.

Thank you so much, Councilwoman Robison, for joining us.

Your reaction to the Memphis Police Department deactivating the Scorpion Unit? Do you think that goes far enough?

PATRICE ROBINSON, (D), MEMPHIS CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: No, it doesn't go far enough. The community has a lot more questions and a lot more demands.

We have gotten emails from many citizens in our community, they're all concerned. They're expressing exactly what they see and what they want to see in our police department.

We really need to investigate and find out what's going on, and from this point on, to evaluate each process.

I mentioned yesterday that it's so important for our community to know what's going on with the police department, not just what's going on in the community.

We get reports that tell us about all of the crimes that are happening in our community, but we never get a report about what's going on with those police officers.

Now we know that that is really important, not just overall, we probably need to get some individual reports as well.

And that will be determined very soon because the council is committed to making this right and ensuring that our community is safe.

It is really difficult for us at this point because we are all grieving, not just the family --

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Absolutely.

ROBINSON: -- but the whole community.

ACOSTA: I know you are. And the whole country is right there with you. It is just unbelievable what occurred there.

And I have to ask you, though, getting back to the Scorpion Unit, I know you said it doesn't go far enough. Where does the accountability lie? Do questions need to be asked of the Memphis police chief?

We were talking to some of our experts, correspondents earlier on in this program, who were saying she hasn't been communicating with the public enough, not doing press conferences, and people are asking questions, what's going on, is there a cover-up, did she have something to hide? What do you think?

ROBINSON: I don't know whether she has anything to hide, but I have been in communication with her because when we first heard about this, we were concerned.

But I just picked up the phone and called, what's going on, and she explained to me that we have some processes that are behind the scenes that she's never had to participate in.

And it kept her from doing the things she knew that she needed to do right then.

I'm not making any excuses for anyone. This is deplorable. Our community deserves better.

And we have to fight the bad players in the community and now we've got to fight our own police officers?

That is deplorable. I can't think of any word to use to say that we are really saddened.

But all of our police officers aren't bad. But the environment that they work in, we're going to have to do something about it.

And because, as a council member, we have nothing to do with administration, but we can try our best to put -- not processes in place, but ordinances in place.

So that we cannot only say this is what we want to happen, but we can also say what kind of reports we want back.

ACOSTA: And, Council Member, did this unit, to your knowledge, have a reputation of having officers who crossed the line, were too rough with people that, perhaps, they might have pulled over for a traffic stop, that sort of thing?

What did you hear up until all of this?

ROBINSON: So I hadn't heard anything. But when this happened, then I started getting emails from citizens telling me about their situation and sending me copies of their documents.

And we started becoming overloaded with other situations. And we knew then that we had a serious problem.

ACOSTA: You were hearing from other -- you were hearing from constituents saying that they, too, might have had a family member or --

ROBINSON: Yes.

ACOSTA: -- a loved ones who had a run-in with this Scorpion Unit, is that what you're saying?

ROBINSON: Yes, I am. They took the time to put it in writing and share their documents with us as well.

And then we started hearing news reports. And we've been getting most of our information via the news. And it's difficult.

[17:35:05]

Like, I had no idea that they currently disbanded the Scorpion Unit until I heard your interview with our board chair.

ACOSTA: I see.

Well, the news is coming in fast. And I know your community is still struggling to wrap its head around what happened to Tyre Nichols.

But our hearts are with you. Our thoughts are with you.

Council Member Patrice Robinson, thank you so much for your time. We hope you get some answers to all of this. You deserve it.

ROBINSON: And the country deserves it, and we deserve it as well. Thank you for allowing us to participate and share what we know.

ACOSTA: Thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Former President Donald Trump has officially kicked off his 2024 bid for the White House. And he's doing so in a much less flashy version than what we're used to seeing from the former president.

[17:40:03]

First, a stop at a high school auditorium in New Hampshire where he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They said he's not campaigning. This is, like, about a month ago when I announced. I said, you know, I've got two years. They said, he's not doing rallies, he's not campaigning. Maybe he's lost that step.

I'm more angry now, and I'm more committed now than I ever was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Right now, Trump, who attempted to overturn the 2020 election results, is speaking right now in South Carolina, another early voting state where Trump will need to perform well if he hopes to regain the presidency.

I'm joined now by CNN political analyst, April Ryan, and former Republican congressman and host of the White Flag podcast, Joe Walsh. Joe, earlier today, Trump said he was, quote, "more committed than

ever" to winning back the White House. I mean, is he committed to honoring election results, democracy?

JOE WALSH, (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ILLINOIS & HOST, WHITE FLAG PODCAST: No.

ACOSTA: Committed to what?

WALSH: No. Committed, I think, to running again. And everybody, Jim, in this business, in the media and, you know, in Republican circles, just wants to write this guy's political obituary.

Don't. He's the odds-on favorite to be the nominee. And I firmly believe that until somebody tries to take it away from him.

ACOSTA: And, April, is it me or is it just surreal and bizarre to see the former president on the campaign trail? He's on a campaign plane with reporters and holding events.

This is somebody who tried to overthrow the government, who tried to incite an insurrection that would have resulted in mass casualties, had it really spiraled more out of control than it actually did.

It is so strange to see him out there able to run for president again and do this all over again.

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's all that and more, Jim. At issue, you have a president who is weakened because of everything you said and more.

Also, because of what happened in Georgia. There's that piece where he tried to change the election result numbers there.

There's other things. He is a weakened president who is not in stadiums at this moment. When he started out, he was going to stadiums. The MAGA-ness was mega. OK? There was so many people there.

This is an illegal president who is trying desperately to get attention.

He's talking about how angry he was. He's talking about how he wanted to fix things before now. He's just as angry as before.

But, Jim, here is the different piece to this. You have people who have the ideology that he really spread across this nation, who are now in governorships in spaces like Florida and spaces like Arkansas -- can you say Sarah Huckabee Sanders?

In Texas, Georgia, Florida, Arkansas, Texas, Alabama, other places that are espousing his ideology.

And right now, the man who carried that flag is now weakened. And there are others who, if you will, are more credible, who people are paying more attention to right now than Donald Trump.

And his party is fractured because of those ideologies.

ACOSTA: And, Joe, I mean, what do you think? Do you think this is just sort of bizarre to see him out there, given everything that's happened?

WALSH: It is the Republican Party. He's the leader of the Republican Party, Jim. And two years ago, he led a violent attempt to overthrow an American election.

I love April, but he's not weakened. With Republican voters, he's still the heavy favorite. That's scary and sad, but it's the truth.

ACOSTA: And, April, let me ask you this --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Go ahead, jump in.

RYAN: Why is he not weakened after what we saw from January 3rd on with the 15 votes? Trump ideology versus, you know, traditional conservatism, Republicans versus -- it was a lie.

So I don't know -- I don't agree with that. I believe he's weakened. But we have to see him regain this momentum. I'm sorry, I beg to differ.

ACOSTA: And, Joe, Trump, last hour, was asked if the death of Tyre Nichols made him rethink police reform and this was his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's sort of like individual people you have to have the right people to know when to be tough and not to be tough. This was a case of being very, very tough, overly, overly crazy.

It's a very sad thing to watch. It was a sad thing. He was begging for his mother. That was just saddening to watch.

And you know, it's not a question of reform. It's a question of having people that understand what we have to do and understand life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joe, he's not really coming down on the side of reform there.

[17:45:00]

WALSH: No.

ACOSTA: And sort of blaming this on a few bad apples.

WALSH: Exactly. He's got to be tough on crime because that's what the Republican base wants to hear.

ACOSTA: April, let me go to you because you and I have covered the White House for so many years together. And I remember being there when Barack Obama was having to deal with Ferguson.

RYAN: Yes.

ACOSTA: And this has been a problem that has bedeviled presidents for years now and there appear to be no prospects for any kind of national police reform.

But it appears to be so desperately needed in this country where you have this happen over and over again.

And these police departments, are they using outdated playbooks in terms of how to police communities? That's how it looks.

It looks as though we just need to update policing in this country and professionalize policing in this country so we don't have these sorts of things happening anymore.

RYAN: Jim, you said this keeps happening over and over again for years. Let's try centuries. There's bad policing from black people, on black people since the enslavement of Africans. The sheriffing of slaves has just moved on to 2023, believe it or not.

But here is what's at issue. Civil rights versus accountability. That was the issue when Donald Trump didn't want to push for reform. And then-President Barack Obama came into 21st century policing, body cameras and the film, et cetera.

And now we're in a space where this president, Joe Biden, is working hard to renew the efforts to bring back the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act.

And I just talked to Hakeem Jeffries, the minority leader of the House, on King holiday, and he said it's going to have to be a Democratic-led Senate that's going to lead this effort.

And remember, Tim Scott, Republican Senator Tim Scott, a black man of South Carolina, is the one who put the kibosh on the effort for the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act.

He was going along with what Donald Trump said. And even at that time, they were even using some of what President Trump had put forward and Tim Scott even kiboshed it then.

Now it's back to the Senate. And it's going to have to be the Senate that revitalizes or reignites this effort and then it goes to the House and we'll see.

ACOSTA: I'll tell you what, one police reform we have seen in recent years is the spread of the use of police body cam footage.

RYAN: Yes.

ACOSTA: And that has made a remarkable difference in dealing with these kinds of cases.

RYAN: Accountability. ACOSTA: Accountability. We would not know about what happened with

Tyre Nichols -- I think there's a strong case we made for that -- if we did not have these kinds of cameras in operation.

Joe Walsh, April Ryan, thank you very much.

We'll be right back.

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[17:52:20]

ACOSTA: In a South Carolina courtroom, Alex Murdaugh is now on trial, charged with murdering his wife and son in June of 2021.

Prosecutors played a never-before-seen video of Murdaugh describing to police how he found the bodies of his wife, Maggie, and son, Paul.

Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MURDAUGH, FORMER ATTORNEY ACCUSED OF KILLING HIS WIFE AND SON: We had a wonderful marriage, wonderful relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Any problems in Paul's relationship?

MURDAUGH: As good as it could be.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over) This is Alex Murdaugh being interviewed in the investigator's car hours after his wife and son were murdered.

MURDAUGH: I mean, I pulled up and I could see them. I could see it was -- and I could see his brain. And I ran over to Maggie -- and actually, I think I tried to turn Paul over first. I tried to take their pulse on both of them.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Mm-hmm.

MURDAUGH: And, you know, I called 911 pretty much right away.

KAYE: That conversation took place at nearly 1:00 a.m. on June 8th, 2021. For the first time, we hear him explain how he says he tried to reach his wife and son with no luck.

MURDAUGH: I got up. I called Maggie, didn't get an answer. And I think I texted her. And she's very good about answering the phone, so that was odd -- or calling me back, so that was odd. But it wasn't that big a deal.

I texted her at 9:08, check on him, be right back. I texted her at 9:47. That must be when I started to come back. I think I called her before that. But let me make sure.

I'm pretty sure that I called her, 9:45. And then I tried Paul.

KAYE: Alex Murdaugh told investigators that he tried to check the pulse on both his wife, Maggie, and son Paul, yet Alex didn't appear to have any blood on him, this investigator told the court.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Did you see what appeared to be blood on his shoes?

UNIDENTIFIED INVESTIGATOR: I did not.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Did you see what appeared to be blood on Alex Murdaugh's hands?

UNIDENTIFIED INVESTIGATOR: I did not.

KAYE: And when the defense lawyer asked her why she thought his clothes were freshly washed --

[17:55:03]

UNIDENTIFIED INVESTIGATOR: He's sweating and they're dry, so I would say yes.

KAYE: Still, on cross examination, the defense tried to poke holes in the idea that Alex Murdaugh may have washed his clothes after allegedly killing his wife and son.

UNIDENTIFIED DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let me ask you, in your mind's eye, that night, on June 7th, did he look like someone who had blown his son's head off, splattering blood everywhere?

UNIDENTIFIED INVESTIGATOR: Again, I can't say that for sure.

KAYE (on camera): Also in court, a crime scene investigator testifying for the prosecution pulled out Paul Murdaugh's bloody sneakers he was wearing the night that he was killed. That was a dramatic moment.

That same witness also testified that Alex Murdaugh's home wasn't searched until September 13th, 2021. That would have been more than three months after the double murder.

No doubt, when the defense cross-examines that witness on Monday, they will use that to continue its theme of an alleged sloppy investigation.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Walterboro.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: That's the news. Reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you back here tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. Eastern.

Pamela Brown takes over the CNN NEWSROOM, live, after a quick break.

Have a good night.

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