Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Push For Police Reform Renewed After The Death Of Tyre Nichols; David DePape Admits Having No Remorse; Speaker McCarthy To Discuss Debt Ceiling And Spending With President Biden; Sen. Chris Murphy (D- CT) Discusses Social Media And The Mental Health Crisis; Memphis Police SCORPION Unit Disbanded; Israel's Takes New Steps After Deadly Attacks; Counter-Terrorism Measures; Chris Wallace Interviews Samantha Power And Gary Sinise In "Who's Talking to Chris Wallace." Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 29, 2023 - 17:00   ET






BEN CRUMP, TYRE NICHOLS FAMILY ATTORNEY: All of these officers failed their oath.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): We need a national conversation about policing.

UNKNOWN: The question is, where do we go from here?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president and Speaker McCarthy set to meet this week as the nation's debt ceiling crisis looms.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I want to find a reasonable and a responsible way that we can take control of this runaway spending.

UNKNOWN: Parents send their kids back to school tomorrow for the first time since that shooting in early January.

UNKNOWN: Am I 100 percent comfortable sending him back? No.


PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington and you are live in the "CNN Newsroom."

In Memphis and across America, the cries for justice for Tyre Nichols raise a larger question. How can law enforcement finally commit to meaningful reforms? Hours after the public viewed the horrific beating, Memphis answered the outcry by shutting down the specialized Scorpion unit. All five officers who were fired and charged in Nichols' death were

members of that controversial unit. Many view that as a small step toward a larger changes that are desperately needed. CNN's Isabel Rosales joins us now. Isabel, what is the latest?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pam. We did speak with attorney Ben Crump, family attorney Ben Crump, who spoke about this incident about the Scorpion unit. And he said that these officers that were involved in the beating of Tyre Nichols, that they failed their oath to protect and serve and they failed Tyre. But this beating goes, Pam, beyond these individual officers and their color.

Crump says that this goes really to the system, to the culture in policing in America. He says, clearly there is a problem here where over and over again, we are seeing traffic stops, police interactions, where black men are dying at the hands of police officers. We did see this week, Pam, the police chief in Memphis disband the Scorpion unit. All five of those officers that were charged and fired were a part of the Scorpion unit.

This is a specialized unit and relatively new, just formed by the police chief back in November of 2021, in response, really, to record high numbers of homicides in the city of Memphis, to crack down on that surge of crime. These members of the Scorpion unit would go around town, target violent areas. But the tactics and the police conduct, they were called into question.

Pam, we did reach out to Van Turner, the president of the NAACP, the Memphis chapter here, questioning him about his reaction to this disbandment. And he says, quote, "We are satisfied that the SCORPION unit has been disbanded. We are also supportive of the present investigation of other officers that were there that failed to intervene."

Meanwhile, back with attorney Ben Crump, he says that clearly this is just the beginning. Work -- more work, needs to be done, including reform at the federal level. Listen.


CRUMP: Shame on us if we don't use his tragic death to finally get the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act passed. We told President Biden that when he talked to us because, you know, he should marshal the United States Senate with Senator Booker, Senator Schumer, and they should try to get the House to reengage.


ROSALES: And Pam, back in Memphis, the GoFundMe, the official GoFundMe for the Tyre Nichols -- his family, his mother and father, that has crossed over the $1 million mark since that video was released. Those videos were released on Friday. These donations are going to mental health services and time off from their jobs for Tyre's mom and dad. Also, they're hoping to build a memorial skate park, which he so loved. Pam?

BROWN: He sure did. Isabel Rosales, thank you so much.

So now, the question, how can the federal government play a role in reforming police departments across the country or should they even be involved? One idea being mentioned, get Congress to pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act.


DURBIN: Senator Booker, chairman of the Crime Subcommittee, has been working on this for years. I think he and Senator Scott should sit down again, quickly, to see if we can revive that effort. But that in and of itself is not enough. We need a national conversation about policing in a responsible, constitutional, and humane way.



BROWN: Meantime, members of the Congressional Black Caucus are urging President Biden to get squarely behind police reform legislation. CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us now. So, if you would, remind us about the George Floyd Policing Act and its chances of passing now.

SAENZ: Well, Pamela, there's pressure for Congress to act on police reform, has certainly been ramped up in the wake of the death of Tyre Nichols. For the time being, it remains unclear what exactly the type of police reform could pass on Capitol Hill would be, or if there is the appetite for something to pass, especially as Republicans now control the House.

Now, President Biden has said he wants to see some type of meaningful reform. The White House hasn't exactly outlined what specifics they are looking for. But in the past, the president has supported that George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, which included creating a federal registry of police misconduct. It would also do things like ban chokeholds and also restrict the use of no-knock warrants.

And when that didn't pass in the Senate over the course of the last few years, the president did take some steps on the federal level to enact certain elements of that program. Now, one set of negotiations that was playing out back in 2021 where these talks between Senator Cory Booker and Senator Tim Scott. That is something you heard Dick Durbin there referenced.

But those really floundered. One of the sticking points was qualified immunity, which offers immunity to police officers from being sued in civil court. So, but at the time -- for the time being, it really remains unclear what kind of legislation could get passed or whether there's the appetite to do that, especially as Republicans control the House.

Now, the president has been facing a call to meet with the Congressional Black Caucus. So far, the White House has not said if that type of meeting would be taking place this week or in the coming weeks. But certainly, this is something that the White House will continue to face pressure on as people want answers, and find ways to prevent incidents like this death of Tyre Nichols, from happening in the future.

BROWN: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

Joining us now, Steve Mulroy, the district attorney for Shelby County, Tennessee. Thank you so much for joining us. So, you've charged five of the officers for Tyre Nichols' death, but there were others on the scene that night, too. The question tonight, could we soon see others charged in this case?

STEVEN MULROY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SHELBY COUNTY, TENNESSEE: Well, I can't comment on an ongoing investigation or an ongoing prosecution, for that matter. I will point out that the charges that we brought against the five officers who were principally involved in the beating death of Tyre Nichols, who were present at that scene, we charged them extraordinarily quickly, less than three weeks from the incident itself to the time we brought indictments. And that's really unprecedented.

So, we're going to need time to allow the investigation to go forward and further consideration of charges. But I will say this, nothing we did last Thursday regarding the indictments precludes us from bringing other charges later.

BROWN: So, you were talking about how extraordinarily fast this was. Tell us about the factors and the amount of pressure you felt in bringing these charges quickly, particularly before the release of that video that we all saw Friday night.

MULROY: You know, I'm not sure that I would characterize it as pressure. But it was clear that there was a huge amount of intense public interest in this case. It was an extraordinary set of circumstances. They wanted to see the video. We knew that the longer the video was delayed, the more unrest and suspicion about the process there would be. So, the video needed to be released soon.

But at the same time, we also knew that releasing the video without an announcement of charges, could itself be provocative and incendiary. So, the best solution was to expedite the investigation and to expedite the consideration of charges so that the charges could come first, and then the release of the video.

And I think that proved to have been a fruitful sequence of events because as we were seeing, there has been demonstration, there has been reaction to the video, which is certainly shocking, but they've been peaceful.

BROWN: They've been peaceful. Absolutely. The attorney for Desmond Mills, one of the defendants here, says that the levels of culpability amongst the five officers are different and that his client didn't cross the line as much as others, saying he is not guilty of the crimes he has been charged with. What do you say to that?

MULROY: Well, it is true that each of the five defendants participated in a different way in the death of Tyre Nichols. All of them acted together, and all of them, their actions taken together, resulted in Tyre Nichols' death. And under the principles of criminal responsibility under Tennessee law, we feel comfortable in bringing the same charges against all five of the defendants. And we're confident that we'll be able to prove each element of those charges beyond a reasonable doubt once we get to trial.


BROWN: So, let's talk about the charges. On the second-degree murder charge, the law requires you to prove that the five officers were, quote, "according to the law, reasonably certain their actions would cause Nichols' death." How do you prove it was that over a heat of passion and emotionally charged killing, which would result in a lesser manslaughter charge. Surely you had to weigh that as you were going through this process.

MULROY: Well, the heat of passion language that you refer to regarding manslaughter would also require that there'd be adequate provocation for the heat of passion. And there doesn't appear to be any adequate provocation in this case, as I think is evident from the video and other evidence.

But, you know, when the blows are as severe as they are, we're comfortable that we'll be able to prove that the defendants were reasonably certain. And that's really all that is required for a knowing killing, which is the relevant language for the second-degree murder statute.

BROWN: How much did inaction of the officers after that beating factor into the decision to bring second degree murder charges?

MULROY: Well, I will say that when you are an on-duty police officer, you do have an affirmative duty to act or prevent an unjust beating and killing of this nature. The duty to intervene is something that is uncontroversial.

And so, both acts of commission and omission can, together, lead to liability. And in fact, one of the charges in the case, the official misconduct, is a specific charge of official misconduct through inaction. That is a failure to act when there's a duty imposed by law.

BROWN: So, then, again, there were other officers who were standing there who did not act. Is it reasonable that they would be -- should have -- face the same charge as the others when it comes to the inaction and dereliction of duty here?

MULROY: And once again, I do have to say that there are certain things that I can't comment regarding an already ongoing investigation and a pending prosecution. What I can say is this, is that we're looking at everything. And nothing we did on Thursday, by bringing indictments against the five officers who were principally involved, precludes any other action later on.

BROWN: Right. I know. I just had -- I had to try again because I think that is an ongoing question for people who have watched that video and who are curious tonight. One last question for you. Will any of the officers be offered plea bargains to encourage cooperation in this case? MULROY: And, again, I'm sorry. There really are things about, you

know, the pending prosecution that I really can't get into and I had explained that earlier to your producer. But I will say this. As a general matter, you know, certainly that is something that is sometimes done in prosecutions, if one particular, you know, defendant ends up becoming cooperative.

Then, you know, there can be consideration of that regarding the charges and sentencing recommendations. And, you know, that's true in any case. This case is not different in that respect. Beyond that, there's not really that I can -- much that I can say.

BROWN: Okay. I understand that and I respect that. I respect your limitations, but as a journalist, we've got to ask the question. Steve Mulroy, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so much.

Well, still to come tonight in the "Newsroom," on this subject, the man caught on camera attacking Nancy Pelosi's husband makes a call from the jail to a reporter. What he told him is next.

Also ahead, is there a right age to let your kids use social media? The U.S. surgeon general's opinion is different from what tech companies allow. He has a warning to you tonight.

And then later, library books covered up inside a Florida high school. Look at this. Teachers say they're trying to comply with a new state law, and they are blaming the governor.



BROWN: The story about David DePape just got stranger and more ominous. He is the man accused of breaking into the San Francisco home of Nancy Pelosi and attacking her 82-year-old husband, Paul, with a hammer. On Friday, he made a call from the county jail to the local Fox affiliate in the San Francisco area. CNN's Annie Grayer joins us with more. And what he had to say, Annie, is pretty disturbing.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: That's right, Pamela. This is really disturbing. The man who attacked Nancy Pelosi's husband called a reporter on Friday and said he has no remorse for his actions and the violence that he committed against the former Speaker's husband. He doesn't name Nancy or Paul Pelosi in the clip that we're about to hear, but he does say that there are a number of individuals that he felt were part of a larger conspiracy that he felt he had to take actions on. He said he only wished he was more prepared to -- when he went to Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco home. Take a listen to this audio.


DAVID DEPAPE, ACCUSED OF ATTACKING PAUL PELOSI: Freedom and liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately. The people killing it have names and addresses. So, I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit. I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry, I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared.


GRAYER: So, what's even more shocking here is the attacker is saying that this was an important message that he wanted to get out to people on Friday in response to the footage of the attack coming out.

BROWN: Yeah. And it's like he's saying, I messed up because I didn't succeed in causing more harm. I mean, this -- the video, in and of itself, it's so disturbing. Hearing that, DePape is a dangerous man. He attacked Paul Pelosi with police standing right there.


He later gave a statement to the San Francisco police department. What did he say?

GRAYER: So, this also came out on Friday from the California courts. And it was DePape's interview with San Francisco police where he really gets into the motivations of why he went to Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco home. And he shares some really terrifying conspiracy -- right-wing conspiracy theories here that show why he was motivated to enact this violence. Let's take a listen to some of that clip.


DEPAPE: It originates with Hillary but like, Pelosi ran with the lying, that is much more than anyone. So not only were they spying on a rival campaign, they were submitting fake evidence to spy on a rival campaign, covering it up, persecuting the rival campaign.

UNKNOWN: When you say a rival campaign, you're talking about Trump?

DEPAPE: Trump. Yes. And it's just like -- it's just like an endless (BLEEP) crime spree (inaudible). They go from one crime to another crime to another crime to another crime, and it's just like the whole (BLEEP) four years until they were finally able to steal the election and it's just --


DEPAPE: It is unacceptable.


GRAYER: So, what we're seeing in that audio, Pamela, is how these baseless right-wing conspiracy theories have taken hold over this individual. And the dangers of the existence of these right-wing conspiracy theories, especially we consider the serious uptick in threats against public officials and politicians today.

BROWN: And you have to wonder how many more David DePape's are out there, right?

GRAYER: Absolutely.

BROWN: It's very scary. Annie Grayer, thank you.

Well, tonight, we could be one step closer to a solution on the debt ceiling crisis. Today, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy said he has agreed to meet with President Biden to discuss raising the debt ceiling.


MCCARTHY: I know the president said he didn't want to have any discussions, but I think it's very important that our whole government is designed to find compromise. I don't think there's anyone in America who doesn't agree that there's some wasteful Washington spending that we can eliminate.

So, I want to sit down together, work out an agreement that we can move forward to put us to a path to balance. At the same time, not put any of our debt in jeopardy at the same time.


BROWN: CNN political analyst and White House reporter for the "Associated Press" Seung Min Kim joins us now. So, McCarthy wants to use the debt ceiling as leverage. The Biden administration insists that it will not offer any concessions or negotiate. What do you think happens here, Seung Min?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Your guess is as good as mine, Pamela, in terms of what happens next. But in terms of what actually happens next when this meeting occurs between speaker McCarthy and President Biden, we can expect a lot of posturing. We know that Washington, Congress particularly when it comes to fiscal matters, do not actually get the ball rolling, don't actually get the work done until the deadline.

And because of the measures that Treasury is taking to manage the debt limit issue, we do have several months. So, in terms of this meeting, obviously it's an important meeting for both sides to kind of lay out their red lines, what their markers are. But the president, the White House tells us, is going to lay out his argument to Speaker McCarthy on why the Congress needs to raise the debt limit without any conditions, without any sort of hostage taking.

And McCarthy, as you just heard, is going to make his positions clear, that there is waste in government spending, that this debt limit provides an opportune time for Congress to work on. Now, whether there's a solution in the near future or in the future at all is definitely yet to be seen.

BROWN: So, let's talk about Donald Trump. He has officially announced he'll make a third run at the presidency a while back. Now he is actually showing that he is actually running for president, starting his campaign. But others like Nikki Haley, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, and New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu are dropping hints they're going to jump in too. Today, Sununu cast some mild shade, if you will, on the former president. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS SUNUNU, GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE: He comes to New Hampshire and frankly gives a very mundane speech. The response we have received is he read his teleprompter, he stuck to the talking points, he went away. So, he's not really bringing that fire and that energy, I think, that a lot of folks saw in '16.

I think in many ways, it was disappointing to some folks and he acknowledge it wasn't his best. He came to a predetermined crowd, not one of his big rallies and, so like, I think a lot of folks understand that, you know, he's going to be a candidate, but he's also going to have to earn it. And that's New Hampshire.


BROWN: Does Trump have a tougher road ahead than he might think right now?

MIN KIM: I think he certainly does especially if the memory of the midterms just this past November is fresh in Republican voter's minds.


As we all know, Democrats did much better than expected, particularly in the Senate when they kept control of that chamber. And a lot of that, according to Republicans, were the candidates that president -- former President Trump put his political weight behind and really became a loser for the party. And of course, he is still dogged by his legal troubles, his multiple legal troubles in federal -- with federal and state investigators.

And so, there's a question as to whether Republican voters want to hitch their wagon onto Donald Trump once again. But there's also a question into exactly how many people get in the race. You know, you just mentioned three or four names out there who are considering national bids.

There are tons more who were definitely thinking about it in the Republican field. And again, if you know there is a major -- if there is a big crowd like there was in 2016 in the Republican primary field, president -- former President Trump doesn't need that much to really be able to split the field and emerge victorious once again.

BROWN: Exactly. I mean, he wants as many people as possible to join the race, except maybe for Ron DeSantis, as he said on his plane to reporters. All right, Seung Min Kim, thank you so much.

Still ahead, a man suspected of kidnapping and beating a woman is on the run and police in Oregon say this man right now, he may be using dating apps to evade justice or find new victims.

Plus, my conversation with Senator Chris Murphy and Surgeon General Vivek Murthy on social media and our kids' mental health. How young is too young?


SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I will admit to fighting a losing battle with my 14-year-old over his access to social media. And there's a lot of pressure on parents.



BROWN: Oregon police are searching for this man accused of kidnapping and beating a woman unconscious. Authorities say he is active on dating apps right now and using them to either evade capture or find potential new victims. That's what police say. The local police chief is calling this a, quote, "all hands-on deck operation." This is not the first time he has faced charges for violence against women. In 2017 and 2019, he was accused of attacking girlfriends he was dating at the time. Hopefully, they catch him soon. That is terrifying.

Well, in Newport News, Virginia, students and faculty of Richneck Elementary will head back to school tomorrow for the first time since a 6-year-old shot his teacher in their classroom. Two people who won't be there are the school's principal and vice principal. A spokesperson for the district says the principal has been reassigned and the vice principal has quit as CNN previously reported. CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now. So, Polo, what else do we know about tomorrow's return to school?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. We know that Briana Foster Newton, as you pointed out, Pam, she will not be there. She's the principal at Richneck Elementary School. District officials saying that she's been re-assigned, but they wouldn't say exactly where.

But she is the third school system employee now to be removed from or to step down from their post after that January 6th shooting where a 6-year-old reportedly shot and injured his teacher. You'll recall on Wednesday, the board voted to cut -- sever ties with their superintendent, George Parker. There's also the assistant principal at the elementary school that resigned also last week.

The attorney that's representing this teacher that continues to recover at this hour really laid down what she believes to be the base -- they argue to be the facts of this case, which is they maintain that school administrators were warned not once or twice, but three times that this 6-year-old had possession of a firearm, and the attorney alleges that they failed to act, do anything to prevent the events of that day from actually happening.

Now, the school district saying in light of this potential litigation, they cannot respond or they cannot comment. But really this is putting parents, staff, and also students in a very difficult position. The big question is whether or not all of them will return to school tomorrow. I had an opportunity to speak to Michelle Brown, Pamela. She is -- her son actually is a third grader at the school, who says, look, she is not ready to send him back until she knows for sure that changes have been made. So far, school officials, they say they'll be putting in metal

detectors at some other elementary schools, but, again, there are some parents that think that it's too little, too late. They want a full restructuring of school administration.

BROWN: Yeah. I completely would understand why they feel that way. Polo Sandoval, thank you.

It's likely in your home right now, maybe even in your hand right now, that smartphone that we can never seem to get away from. But for kids, the dangers are much more potent. Our conversation with Senator Chris Murphy and the U.S. Surgeon General, who are both parents, continues now.


MURPHY: When you think about the things that would attack the issue of loneliness, there's actually a decent amount of bipartisan interest. So, rebuilding healthy local communities, especially in rural America, where people sometimes feel the most alone, that's something that unites Republicans and Democrats.

There are plenty of Republicans and Democrats that are talking about heavier regulation of technology and social media. For instance, making it clear that under the age of 13 you can't get onto certain products by yourself, or incentivizing these algorithms to be less addictive. We can do that, and I think we have a better chance to get over the Republican-Democratic divide on issues surrounding how we reduce loneliness.

BROWN: So, let me ask you, both of you, what do you do when it comes -- with your own kids when it comes to social media?


MURPHY: I will admit to fighting a losing battle with my 14-year-old over his access to social media. And there's a lot of pressure on parents. I feel it because that's where his friends are, right? The conversation in school revolves around what they saw on TikTok or the video they made the night before.

And so, it becomes very difficult for parents to decide unilaterally disarm. And so, I guess, I retreat to where Dr. Murthy has talked about, making sure that my kids have portions of the day in which they are off their screens and interacting face-to-face with human beings whether that be through sports or music or STEM activities.

But I have not been successful, admittedly, as a parent in saying, you can't be on this social media platform because to my kids, especially my teenager --

BROWN: Exactly.

MURPHY: -- it's a really -- it's a really important part of his social experience. So, I've just decided to make sure that he's got portions of his day in which he's got alternatives. BROWN: And what is -- go ahead.

VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: And for my (inaudible) another important point about age, right? What is the right age for a child to start using social media? I worry that right now, if you look at the guidelines from the platforms that age 13 is when kids are technically allowed to use social media.

But there are two concerns I have about that. One is, I personally base on the data. I have seen and believe that 13 is too early. And I think that it's a time, you know, early adolescence, where kids are developing their identity, their sense of self. It's a time where it's really important for us to be thoughtful about what's going into how they think about their own self-worth and their relationships.

And the skewed and often distorted environment of social media often does a disservice to many of those children. But the other concern I have is that these rules around age are inconsistently implemented. I recently had a mother who came to visit me in my office who told me a deeply tragic story about her daughter.

Her daughter had started using social media platforms, had seven accounts on three different platforms, was mercilessly bullied, unfortunately, by people on these platforms, struggled to get off of these. We just could not achieve. Felt hooked onto them. Every time they got her off, she would came back on. And in the end, she sadly took her own life, and she was only 11 years old.

But it is very easy to get onto these platforms. And when I talk to teachers around the country, they tell me routinely that they have children under the age of 13 who are using these platforms. One thing that parents can do, but they have to do this together, is to make a decision that they're going to ban together and not allow their kids to use social media until an older age.

As Senator Murphy was saying, if your child is the only one who's not using social media but everybody else in their school is, it's a really tough position for your child to be in. But if parents can ban together and say, you know, as a group, we are not going to allow our kids to use social media until 16 or 17 or 18 or whatever the age is they choose. That's a much more, you know, effective strategy, making sure your kids don't get exposed to harm early.


BROWN: Something to think about there. As screens dominate more and more of our lives, it is important to put a boundary sooner than later as this issue continues to impact all of us.

Well, after the death of Tyre Nichols, Memphis police are disbanding their controversial SCORPION unit. Is that enough and is the city's current police chief the right person to bring the reforms the community is now calling for?



BROWN: The Memphis police department says it has permanently disbanded its controversial SCORPION unit in the wake of Tyre Nichols' death on January 7th. The five ex-officers now charged with second degree murder were all part of that unit. The swift action taken against those officers has been praised by many, including by Tyre Nichols' family attorney, Ben Crump.


CRUMP: I think, from what I've seen, Chief Davis has been very exemplary in her leadership.

I will say this, she terminated those officers quickly. They were arrested, and they were charged in less than 20 days. We haven't really seen that. But with these five black officers, they did. So, that's why I am saying, this is the blueprint going forward, even when it's not black officers.


BROWN: Retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey joins us now. You have actually called for the police chief to resign. You said she should go. I'm assuming then you disagree with Benjamin Crump's praise there. Tell us why in your view here.

CHERYL DEORSEY, RETIRED LAPD SERGEANT: Well, listen, if you've never been a part of that system and you don't understand the nuances, and then you would say what Mr. Crump said. And so, what she did was a baby step. She did what she had to do. She's in damage control. She understands that she's at-will employee serving at the pleasure of a mayor.

We've heard that many community members have complained about that SCORPION unit and yet nothing was done. The fish rots from the head. She is solely and totally responsible. And while she fired five officers quickly, there were many more than five standing around. That SCORPION unit is alleged to have 40 officers. And I'm sure there were some officers from her patrol unit who also were present.

So, disbanding the unit, getting rid of those five, and allowing the others to stay on the department and who are probably working and pulling folks over today is not sufficient enough for me.

BROWN: But do you agree that the swift action that we have seen from the chief is a potential blueprint for these cases, these types of cases, moving forward?

DORSEY: Well, she certainly shows that an administrative investigation can be adjudicated quickly. On the LAPD, my chief has 365 days, and maybe that's what it is nationwide. But it doesn't take 365 days to investigate an administrative hearing. And so, she's shown that. And so, no longer can a police chief pretend that they need weeks and months to finish an investigation and find out whether or not wrongdoing occurred.

BROWN: Right. And often times they know it's occurred. I mean, they use the investigation as cover to not have to say anything.


They can just say, oh, it's under investigation. We don't say anything. But now we know how quickly it can happen. So, on the disbanding of the SCORPION unit, what is the intended purpose of these sort of specialty police units? The district attorney there in Memphis says they tend to breed a culture of aggressiveness. As a retired sergeant, is that your view?

DORSEY: I think these specialized units certainly have a place but it's imperative that you have --

BROWN: I think we're having -- yeah, we're losing -- unfortunately, we're losing Sergeant Dorsey there. I was really looking forward to hearing her perspective, but we'll try to bring her back once we sort out those audio issues. Retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, thank you.

And you are in the "CNN Newsroom" on this Sunday. And Iran says an attack on the military plant was carried out by drones. A look at the damage it did and the lingering question. Who was behind it?



BROWN: New Jersey police are looking for a man who attempted to burn down a synagogue by throwing a Molotov cocktail at it. It happened about 3:00 in the morning in Livingston, New Jersey. The bottle broke but didn't cause any damage, fortunately. Local police say they're going to increase patrols of temples in the area after the attempted arson.

And police in Israel say they have sealed off the home of a gunman who carried out a deadly attack near a synagogue in Jerusalem. Israeli officials say the suspect's family has been arrested and the home now stands to be demolished. Seven people were killed in Friday's attack. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is now releasing a six-point plan on fighting terrorism in response to the shooting. Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem with more. Hadas?

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Pam, Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, announcing a series of actions in wake of the shootings in Jerusalem by Palestinians, what Israeli officials have called terrorist attacks that left seven dead and five injured. Among the actions are increasing the deployment of the security forces, especially around Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank.

They vow to demolish the homes of the two attackers. This is a common tactic by Israeli officials that they see as a way to deter future attacks, expediting and expanding the number of guns permits for Israeli civilians trying to get thousands of more Israelis to carry guns with them at all times, revoking the national insurance benefits of families who Israel has accused of terrorism. And most controversially, pushing forward draft legislation that would revoke the Israeli identity cards of quote, "the families of terrorists that support terrorism."


BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL (through translation): Our response will be strong, swift, and precise. Whoever tries to harm us, we will harm them and everyone who assists them. We have already carried out widespread arrests of those who support, assist, and incite terrorism. We are deploying forces. We are reinforcing units, and we are doing this in various sectors.


GOLD: Now, Palestinian authority has condemned those steps as collective punishment, saying that it will pour oil on the fire potentially detonating the entire arena of conflict. Palestinians reporting dozens of cars and shops in the occupied West Bank burned and damaged by groups of Israeli settlers, seemingly active retribution for the deadly attacks.

Meanwhile, diplomatic efforts are underway. The CIA chief, William Burns, meeting with Palestinian authority, President Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah on Sunday, ahead of U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken's arrival on Monday to the region.

He'll first meet with Israeli officials including Prime Minister Netanyahu before heading to the West Bank to meet with Palestinian officials. While this was preplanned ahead of the latest round of violence, it now comes with a much greater sense of urgency. Pam?

BROWN: All right, Hadas Gold, thank you. Iranian authorities are investigating a drone strike that hit a government military plant as security officials says there were no casualties, but the explosion left some damage. Iran's foreign minister told state media, such measures will fail to have any impact on our experts will to achieve peaceful nuclear achievements. The defense ministry has not provided any information about who conducted the attack.

And still ahead for you on this Sunday night, how a California community is coming together to honor a hero who helped stop the gunman in last weekend's mass shooting.



BROWN: Well, tonight on "Who's Talking to Chris Wallace," Chris sits down with the woman who is leading the agency working to ease the humanitarian crisis in Ukraine and the man whose mission in life changed after his role in "Forrest Gump." Here's a preview. Hey, Chris.

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: Hey, Pamela. Tonight, my guests include the woman at the center of the Biden administration's efforts to help Ukrainian civilians. So far, the U.N. estimates almost 8 million people have left their country since Russia invaded almost a year ago. And millions more have been devastated in their homeland.

The American agency tasked with helping those people is USAID. And tonight, I speak with its administrator, former U.N. ambassador Samantha Power, who defends from Republican critics, the $12 billion her agency has spent in Ukraine.


SAMANTA POWER, ADMINISTRATOR, USAID: The stakes could not be higher and the consequences of walking away from naked aggression in 2023 for the cause of freedom, for the cause of our own freedom, for the defense of Europe, I mean, the stakes could not be higher.

I think people know about villainy and what happens when villainy goes unchecked. And to have a leader of a superpower or at least a country with a super power-sized military, allowed with impunity to just go take huge chunks of a neighbor, even conquer a neighbor, we know from not-too-distant history what the consequences of walking away from that would be for America and for U.S. interests and the American people.


WALLACE: Speaking of service, my other guest is an actor turned activist helping America's heroes and their families. Gary Sinise is probably best known for his role as Lieutenant Dan in "Forrest Gump," a role he said changed his life's mission in so many ways.


WALLACE: Do you think in somehow looking back in the arc of your life that it was somehow fate that you would end up playing Lieutenant dan in "Forrest Gump"?

GARY SINISE, ACTOR: Well, it was certainly good fortune the movie did so well. Maybe it was some kind of destiny.


Years later, you know, when I started walking into hospitals to visit our wounded, they recognized -- they didn't know who I was, but they recognized my face from "Forrest Gump."