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Calls For Police Reforms Intensify After Horrific Beating Of Tyre Nichols; Accused Pelosi Attacker Makes Bizarre Phone Call From Jail; Special Crime Fighting Units Under Scrutiny; Hero Who Stopped Monterey Park Gunman Honored At Ceremony; Ban Forces Florida Teachers To Remove Books To Avoid Felony Charges; Novak Djokovic Wins The Australian Open Championship One Year After Ban. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 29, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY SINISE, ACTOR: They didn't know who I was but they recognized my face from "Forrest Gump" and they wanted to talk about Lieutenant Dan. And I realized early on that's going to be part of the story that I share with these wounded veterans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Sinise also talks a little politics and what it's like to be a conservative in Hollywood. It's all next hour right here on CNN -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Chris. "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" airs at 7:00 tonight right here on CNN. And the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday starts right now.

I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. The top stories for you tonight, lawmakers are demanding action days after five Memphis police officers are charged in the beating death of Tyre Nichols. Can the federal government do anything to change the culture inside many of these departments?

Plus the man who disarmed the Monterey Park gunman is hailed a hero and honored by one town. This as California sees four mass shootings in one week.

And it's a fight over books in Florida. Teachers say they have to keep students away from the books already in their libraries until state- approved groups decide if they're appropriate.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we begin this hour with the brutal beating of Tyre Nichols. Today the attorney for his family told CNN that he hopes the video that outraged a nation will become a watershed moment in the push for police reform.

Hours after the public viewed that horrific beating, Memphis answered the outcry by shutting down the specialized Scorpion Unit. All five officers who were fired and charged with Nichols' death were members of that controversial unit, but many view that as just a small step for larges changes that are desperately needed.

CNN's Isabel Rosales joins us now -- Isabel.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pam. We did just hear from the NAACP in Tennessee. The president applauding the Memphis police chief for firing the officers involved in that beating of Tyre Nichols and for doing so within 20 days and not waiting months to a year to take that action. She's also applauding the D.A. for charging those officers and demonstrators who took to the streets peacefully, saying, quote, "We've shown the world how you do it."

Here's what else she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA SWEET-LOVE, PRESIDENT, NAACP TENNESSEE STATE CONFERENCE: We come to call action for Congress. By failing to craft and pass bills to stop police brutality, you are writing other black man's obituary. The blood of black America is on your hands, so stand up and do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: Yes. And back here in Memphis, the official GoFundMe for the family of Tyre Nichols, that crossed over the $1 million mark since the videos were released back on Friday. These donations will go toward helping his parents specifically with mental health services and also for time taken off from work.

The family also talking about Tyre's love for sunsets and skating. And they also plan to use the money to build a skate park in his honor -- Pam.

BROWN: That's beautiful. Isabel Rosales, thank you.

Well, this latest instance of police brutality in Memphis is in critical focus here in Washington, D.C. What can the federal government do to fix the problem? What should it do? If you ask some Democratic leaders, it starts with passing the George Floyd Police Reform Act. And members of the Congressional Black Caucus are requesting a meeting with President Biden on this issue.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us now.

Arlette, remind our viewer what the George Floyd Policing Act is, why some opposed it, and whether it has any chance of getting through this new Congress.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, the White House and lawmakers up on Capitol Hill are certainly facing renewed pressure when it comes to police reform. President Biden has said he wants to see meaningful reform passed, but it's unclear what exactly that would entail in the current environment. Now Democrats did try to push through the George Floyd Justice in

Policing Act back in 2021. That would have included creating a registry for police misconduct. It also would have banned chokeholds and put restrictions on no-knock warrants.

Now that passed the House. It did not pass the Senate. But Senator Cory Booker, a Democrat, was engaged in bipartisan talks with Senator Tim Scott, a Republican of South Carolina. But those talks did eventually fell apart back in 2021. One of the sticking points was the issue of qualified immunity, which offers immunity for police officers that prevents them being sued in civil court.

Now Senator Dick Durbin, a top Democrat, said that he wants to see Booker and Scott sit down together again to try to hammer out some details regarding police reform. Take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): This is a call for all of us to really be honest about the situation.

[18:05:01]

I'm chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. We do many pieces of legislation. I think the police reform package that Senator Booker was working on with Senator Scott, it had many elements in it that are important. Banning chokeholds, dealing with no-warrant searches, dealing with accreditation of police departments. It's necessary that we do all these things, but not sufficient.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, I want to --

DURBIN: We need a national conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now one big question is whether there will be the appetite for police reform up on Capitol Hill, especially as Republicans now control the House. At the same time, members of the Congressional Black Caucus are asking to meet with President Biden this week to talk about police reform. And we're actually also learning just moments ago that the head of the Congressional Black Caucus, Congressman Steven Horsford invited the family of Tyre Nichols to be his guest at the State of the Union. And he said that they have accepted.

So that certainly will be quite the moment if they in fact attend the State of the Union on February 7th. But at this moment, the White House and Congress is facing so much pressure. The question is, will there actually be an appetite to act? And what exactly any type of legislation on it regarding police reform could pass the currently divided Congress.

BROWN: All right. Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

And we are now joined by Memphis city councilman Frank Colvett. Thank you so much for joining us. Let's begin with this decision to

deactivate the Scorpion Unit. All five officers charged in Nichols' death were members. And I'm wondering, have you received complaints about this unit before? Do you think this should have happened sooner?

FRANK COLVETT, MEMPHIS CITY COUNCIL: I have not received -- thank you for having me. I have not received complaints, but my office -- me personally. But my office has and the council has. But the Scorpion Unit, I think the smart move, and the mayor is correct, in shutting it down. These kinds of actions clearly are not representative of the Memphis Police Department. And let's also remind everybody that 1900 Memphis police officers showed up to work this morning, and they'll show up tomorrow.

These five, the accused, do not represent our values, do not represent our police department. And I think maybe where your questions might go is a top-down evaluation of not just the Scorpion Unit but our police officers, our hiring practices particularly.

BROWN: And I just want to ask you about, you know, you mentioned all the officers that do show up for work. And of course officers every day are putting themselves in harm's way. But also I think that this just is shining a spotlight on a culture of aggression, that is existing in police departments across the country. What do you think about that?

COLVETT: I think you're spot on. As everybody has now had time to digest the video and the protest people gathering have been relatively to very peaceful. I think the NAACP president was correct in that we are leading the way and showing people how it's done. I think going forward -- and my colleagues and I have talked about this, I have asked for a top-down review of the police department. But also to include the mental inventory of our officers. They are in harm's way every day.

There has to be an immense amount of stress on them that makes it very, very hard without excellent training and continuous training and mental evaluation to continue doing the job to the highest standards. Obviously the Scorpion Unit and these officers' actions do not represent Memphis or the Memphis Police Department.

BROWN: The reality is the other members of that Scorpion Unit, they are still part of the police department. It's just the five that have been removed and are now charged. Police chief there, CJ Davis, has taken swift action in this case. But she was also the one who started the Scorpion Unit and allowed those five relatively new officers charged in this case to be part of it. Do you have confidence that she can fix the problems that remain in her department?

COLVETT: She's going to get her chance. I think that there is a reckoning coming for the police department and for the leadership. They're going to be -- the tough questions are not going to go away. And they're not going to calm down in any way. And she's going to have to answer not just to the council but to the citizens and really the world. But I think she should have the opportunity to fix this, to work through it, and to show us a potential path. For lack of better words, let's give her a chance at least in the short term.

BROWN: Do you think that she should, at the very least, suspend or fire the other officers who were part of the Memphis Police Department who were there in that video we saw outside of the five standing around after he was brutally beaten?

COLVETT: I have only, like you, seen the video. I have not seen the police documentation, the EMT documentation.

[18:10:05]

Clearly there were other officers there. I'm curious as to why they have not been disciplined or suspended. I hope to know that tomorrow, Monday morning. So direct answer to your query is C.J., Chief Davis is going to have to answer to that.

BROWN: What will it take for your community to heal, do you think?

COLVETT: That's a -- thank you for asking. Now that we've had a chance to digest and get through this, the funeral is Wednesday. I think that there will be many an opportunity -- and I intend to join them -- that we can all peacefully, legally gather. And it is my hope in the tens of thousands gather to express not only our disgust with what has happened but our demand for swift a justice and that these accused face the trial, face the jury, as soon as possible. Justice delayed is justice denied.

But to your question, I think now that we're coming through this weekend, the faster I think we have the opportunity to all share our outrage, for lack of better words, gather peacefully to share this outrage. But also in the meantime, the GoFundMe, I think that was a great idea. This family is obviously not going to work any time soon. And their lives are forever terribly changed. So, I think an immediate move would be is the GoFundMe. But then look for the chances to peacefully gather.

BROWN: Yes. They raised more than a million dollars. Of course the money will not heal the wounds, but it will certainly provide a little bit of cushion and comfort as they try to move on with their lives and mourn the loss of Tyre Nichols.

Thank you so much, Frank Colvett. Appreciate your time tonight.

And as we just mentioned, the five Memphis police officers charged in Tyre Nichols' death were all part of that specialized unit specifically tasked with reducing violent crimes. Are these specialty groups necessary? That's ahead.

Plus, three weeks after a first grader allegedly shot his teacher, students from one Virginia elementary school will finally return to the classroom with a lot of changes in place.

And then later I'll talk to the chairman of the House Oversight Committee. And I'll ask him about his meeting this week with Tesla and Twitter owner, Elon Musk. Ever heard of him?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:33]

BROWN: In Newport News, Virginia, students and faculty at Richneck Elementary will head back to school tomorrow for the first time since a 6-year-old shot his teacher in the classroom. Two people who won't be there are the school's principal and vice principal. A spokesperson for the district says the principal has been reassigned and the vice principal has quit as CNN previously reported.

CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now. So, Polo, what else do we know about tomorrow's return to school and the changes in place now?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, I can tell you that some of the parents who we've had an opportunity to speak to, they are of course to make a very difficult decision. Some tell me that they are still not convinced that the school system has done enough to restore confidence in the ability -- or at least they know that they can keep their children safe. So there's at least one parent in particular told me that their child will be staying home.

But as you mentioned, the principal, Brianna Foster Newton, she has been reassigned to a position at the district, though the district did not say exactly where. She is now the third school system employee that has either been removed from their post or stepped down after that 6-year-old back on January 6th opened fire in a classroom, wounding his teacher.

You'll recall the school board voted to sever ties with their superintendent, then the assistant principal also resigned. And the attorney that's representing these injured teacher maintains that school administration officials were warned at least three times that this child had possession of a firearm but that they failed to act. In fact his attorney saying that she plans to file a lawsuit against the district. The district not commenting, given that ongoing investigation.

But look, as we mentioned, parents right now, they have to make that decision as to whether or not they send kid back to school tomorrow, back to Richneck Elementary. One in particular, Michelle Brown, telling us that she will not send her child back, who's in the third grade, until she knows that those who she believes to be responsible for this are being held accountable and also that the school is taking the right steps to guarantee the safety of her child.

Now, the school system saying that they do plan to set up metal detectors in all of their elementary schools, and they're also considering requiring only transparent backpacks on campus. But, again, Michelle telling me that that is too little too late. They want more. But again for now, that return to class tomorrow morning for those students at Richneck Elementary School after that horrible incident just over three weeks ago.

BROWN: How sad that this is the state of our elementary schools in this country now, where those are the changes that could be implemented. Polo Sandoval, thank you.

The terrifying assault on Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul, it has entered a strange new chapter. David DePape, the man accused of the brutal hammer attack, called a California TV station from jail on Friday.

CNN's Annie Grayer is here to tell us more about this.

I mean, it is really creepy, Annie, listening to this.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: It's really, really disturbing. So the man who attacked Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul Pelosi, called a local reporter from San Francisco on Friday, after video of the attack came out and said that he has no remorse for the violent act that he committed against the former speaker's husband. He says he wished he'd only been more prepared for this attack. And this is an important message that he wanted to get out to the American people, showing how much he really believed in these convictions.

Now in the audio that we're about to play, the assailant does not mention Nancy or Paul Pelosi specifically, but says that there are a number of individuals that he believes are part of this conspiracy hurting Americans' freedoms. Let's take a listen to some of that audio.

[18:20:12]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID DEPAPE, PAUL PELOSI BEATING SUSPECT: Freedom and liberty isn't dying. It's being killed systematically and deliberately. The people killing it have names and addresses. So I got their names and addresses, so I can pay them a little visit.

I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry, I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: So what we see in that audio is really the dangers of these baseless right-wing conspiracy theories and how that has a direct impact on the violence that we're seeing against public figures and politicians today.

BROWN: Yes. And you have to think how many others are out there just like him, that have the same thought, that are detached from reality, and are really buying into these conspiracy theories and want to act on it? It's scary. And it also brings back into focus, what more is Capitol Police doing now to protect members and their families in light of this.

GRAYER: It's a great question. I mean, the attack on Paul Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi's husband, created a renewed push for more transparency and understanding about how lawmakers and their families can be protected. And it also revealed a number of gaps in the current system. For example, how there needs to be more collaboration between Capitol Police, which is the law agency that protects lawmakers when they're in D.C., and their local law enforcement agencies when lawmakers are back in their respective districts.

On top of that, lawmakers receive security based on threat assessment that Capitol Police does. And this attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband created new questions around what is this level of threat assessment, and can that be extended to lawmakers' families? Because right now that doesn't really exist, that option for family members. But right now lawmakers have access to funds to beef up security for their homes and for their district offices.

But now we're in a Republican-controlled House majority. So the question is going to be, when it comes time to fund these programs again this Congress, are they going to get the same level of funding and will there be more done to address the gaps in these current programs?

BROWN: It is an interesting question, too, because it impacts them directly.

GRAYER: Absolutely.

BROWN: They're protected by Capitol Police.

All right, Annie Grayer, thank you so much.

Oregon Police are searching for this man right here. Take a look at your screen. He is accused of kidnapping and beating a woman unconscious. Authorities say he is active on dating apps right now, and he's using them to find potential new victims. The local police chief is calling this a, quote, "all hands on deck operation." This is not the first time he's faced charges for violence against women. In 2017 and 2019, he was accused of attacking girlfriends he was dating at the time.

Well, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Sunday. As we see more and more acts of police violence, some of them deadly, like the attack on Tyre Nichols, we have to ask why they keep happening. Two experts join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:27:39]

BROWN: After Memphis shut down its now infamous Scorpion Unit, other cities may be asking whether keeping these special crime fighting squads is helping or hurting the traditional mission of police, to protect and serve. So let's discuss with CNN law enforcement analyst Michael Fanone, and Kristen Ziman. She is a former chief in Aurora, Illinois.

Michael, let's start with you. From your experience, do special crime fighting units like this one do more good than harm or vice versa?

MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you're asking somebody that spent almost two decades in a unit or units very similar to these. So my answer would be that they're invaluable. I mean, they fill a specific role within a police department I think that no other unit can fulfill.

BROWN: But to follow up on that, what went wrong here, do you think? I mean, there is a lot of talk about the culture of aggression and even calling it Scorpion, just, you know, is the wrong move. What do you think?

FANONE: Well, first and foremost, I think -- and I've been talking about this for quite a while now, I think we're failing our law enforcement officers with regards to training. We do not train nearly enough and our training is not preparing the officers for the job that we're asking them to fulfill. That being said, it's also important that we select the appropriate people to be in these types of units.

I mean, I've heard a lot of people talking about the fact that there is less supervision. I don't necessarily think that that's a bad thing, as long as you have the appropriate personnel in those types of units. I mean, I was an officer that did not feel that I needed that much supervision. And I thrived in units like these for more than two decades.

BROWN: On the lack of training part, I mean, Kristen, do you agree with that, right, that there is a lack of training, saying in this tweet, that lack of training, lack of humanity, you can fix the former, how do we instill in our police officers the value of every human life?"

[18:30:06]

So how do we get out ahead of these certain cops who appear to show so little regard for humanity, Kristen?

KRISTEN ZIMAN, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE, AURORA, ILLINOIS: Yes, absolutely. First of all, I am someone to echo the idea of these units. These units that are run with nobility and honor and training, who truly go out there into our neighborhoods and do the job that needs to be done but without, you know, acting like a street gang. They are absolutely beneficial. And the training -- the reason that I said that is because I looked at these five officers, and it took five officers to subdue a 144-pound man.

And that told me that they are lacking in defensive tactics training. And part of the training across nations in progressive police departments also include de-escalation. So it's just a fact that there are going to be people who are placed under arrest, a probable cause arrest. They may resist. But the training then allows officers to put them in handcuffs quickly and then to deescalate the situation. And as you saw, that didn't happen here at all.

BROWN: But, I mean, at the same time, you talk about training. But also it seems there was also this attitude of, you know, let's go get them. I mean, even you heard on the body cam, the first one there, the guy was saying -- I can't remember the exact words he used but it wasn't very pleasant. Stomp his A-S-S. You know, that -- and what do you do about that attitude? Because that to me is also such a critical part about all this and you don't necessarily get that in training. I mean, that's more like a culture thing. What do you think, Michael?

FANONE: I mean, yes, there are certainly issues within the police culture. There's, you know, an aggressive aspect of that that comes along with seeking out those types of jobs. But I don't necessarily think that that's always a bad thing. But going back to training because I think that that's a key component here, you know, listen, for me and most police officers, so much of policing is learned on the job. You know, as a member of units like these, I learned how to conduct investigations.

I learned how to conduct interviews. I learned how to conduct, cultivate, and form it, gather and interpret intelligence, and to develop and execute a tactical plan. If we remove these types of units from our law enforcement agencies, we create this void. You know, we did it in 2015 in Washington, D.C. We removed vice units, our specialized units, and the void is still felt in the department today.

You know, these are pipelines for your investigative units, for your detectives, for your homicide detectives, district-wide detectives. And I mean, quite frankly, what we're dealing with right now, at least in my old department, is a lot of detectives that didn't have this experience coming up because these units weren't there, and they're garbage.

So, I think that that -- you know, we need to think about that before we start making these knee-jerk reactions to what really is -- and I understand the emotion behind all of this. But what really is not reflective of the greater example that's put forth every single day by our police officers in this country.

BROWN: Kristen, I want you to take a listen to what House Judiciary chair Jim Jordan said this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): What strikes me is just the lack of respect for human life. So, I don't know that any law, any training, any reform is going to change -- you know, that this man was handcuffed. They continued to beat him. I don't think these five guys represent the vast, vast majority of law enforcement. But I don't know if there's anything you can do to stop the kind of evil we saw in that video.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What do you think about what you just heard from him, Kristen?

ZIMAN: Yes, I do think there's a way to stop it. And it goes back to what we were just talking about, is a culture in an organization. We know that policy says thou shalt not commit excessive force. But we do know that culture eats policy for breakfast. And we know that these men had body cams on and still acted the way they did, policed the way they did, borrowed power from their position. And that is a culture problem. And it's what we recognize and what we

celebrate. And as you saw, they were celebrating at the end of this encounter by saying that was fun. That tells me everything I need to know about the culture.

BROWN: Absolutely. Kristen Ziman, Michael Fanone, really interesting to hear your thoughts. And I think it's really important given your experience in police departments in the past. Thank you both.

Up next on CNN NEWSROOM, honoring a hero who stopped a gunman after a mass shooting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:06]

BROWN: Brandon Tsay, the hero who stopped the Monterey Park shooter, was honored at a ceremony this afternoon during a local Lunar New Year festival. Brandon Tsay disarmed and fought off the gunman before he could continue his deadly rampage.

CNN's Camila Bernal joins us now from this event.

So what was it like at that ceremony, Camila?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pam. So Brandon Tsay, just 26 years old, was welcomed with a standing ovation. So many people cheering and clapping for him. There were local leaders, law enforcement agents, and even just members of the community. Someone with a sign that said, Brandon is our hero. But it is this balance between celebrating but also remembering the victims.

We are at a festival that is very similar to what was going on just last weekend in Monterey Park. And we're only two, three miles away from that site. And so it is a community that is very intertwined, and everybody just thanking Brandon.

[18:40:02]

And really the L.A. County sheriff saying that it's not just Brandon. It is many, many people. It is more good than evil. That is what the sheriff pointed out. The people that went into that dance studio more than a week ago doing everything they could to save as many people as possible. The medical personnel that helped them that day, just members of the community that were inside that dance hall, that were helping other people there.

And so just pointing out that despite everything that happened last week that this is also a time to celebrate, to come together as a community and really try to do everything they can to honor someone who was brave enough to confront that shooter at the ceremony. They also mentioned that Brandon Tsay was invited to the State of the Union address by President Joe Biden. So you'll be seeing a little bit of him as well.

So in general, as you can see here, people are really coming together to celebrate because this is how you show that despite everything that happened this is a community that has come together and is honoring and remembering those victims.

Now I do want to talk about something on a completely separate note, Pam. I wanted to say thank you. It's been great to spend so many weekends with you. You're an inspiration to me and to many women in journalism, and I know you're going to continue to do that in your next role. So thank you.

BROWN: That means so much, Camila. Thank you so much. You are a rising star at CNN. This is my last show on "CNN NEWSROOM WITH PAMELA BROWN," everyone, if you're wondering about that nice message from Camila. But thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show these last two years.

Well, some teachers in Florida are covering up their classroom libraries and they say it is because of a new state law. We're going to explain, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:46:19]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON FALLS, HISTORY TEACHER, MANATEE HIGH SCHOOL: We were instructed last week that we were -- essentially had three choices as far as our personal libraries that are in our classrooms. We could remove them completely box them up. We could cover them up with paper or some sort of something. Or they could be entered into a database where the school district has all of the library books.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Tonight, some Florida teachers are scrambling to comply with the new law championed by Governor Ron DeSantis. It requires all books in school libraries and classrooms be approved by a media specialist trained by Florida's Department of Education. Violators could be charged with a third degree felony.

And this new law in Florida is just the latest in what critics say is a growing right-wing movement to censor what kids can read in schools.

My next guest is part of the effort to fight back. Peter Bromberg is the associate director at EveryLibrary, a group dedicated to building public support for libraries.

So let's start with this law in Florida. A lot of districts are confused about exactly how to interpret this, right? But no matter what, the threat of a felony for having the wrong book in your library or classroom will almost certainly have a chilling effect, right?

PETER BROMBERG, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, EVERYLIBRARY: Sure. And the confusion also is -- you know, it's a feature, not a book. The vagueness and how to interpret it and how to execute those laws, it has the chilling effect. It creates the chilling effect because if you don't know, you're going to err on the side of safety. And so -- and we're seeing this, you know, in many places across the country. It's not just Florida. Unfortunately we're seeing right now 21 bills across 13 states that are attempting to criminalize librarianship in some form or another.

BROWN: I mean, that's -- wow. To think that they could face a felony for having the wrong book on the shelf. But let's listen quickly to how DeSantis is framing the issue, as one of parental rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: We are going to make sure that parents have a seat at the table and that we protect their rights because nobody is more invested in the proper well-being of kids than the parents themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Which is true. But what if some parents want the books on the shelves? But what do you say to the parents who back the law and insist they just want more control over what books their children can read?

BROMBERG: Well, I think that, you know, it's a false narrative that, you know, parents have always had a great deal of input and control over their children's education and librarians have a hundred-year history in both public and school libraries of working with parents to find materials and recommend materials that are appropriate for their kids. In most states, there are already rules on a local level as well as state level in place that empower parents to potentially restrict access to materials.

And, you know, just in terms of voter attitudes toward this, I mean, there have been a number of national polls, including one by the EveryLibrary Institute, another by the American Family Survey, that showed that overwhelmingly not only do Americans oppose book banning, but in the American Family Survey only 12 percent of Americans said that books should be removed if a parent objects. And only 16 percent believe there is anything on a school library shelf that includes any inappropriate material to begin with.

So really this is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and ultimately, I believe, to build distrust in public education as a strategy to redirect public money to private religious-for profit companies offering education with no accountability to the public.

[18:50:03]

BROWN: Let's talk about that a little bit more because, as you point out, polls do suggest that most Americans are not in favor of banning books. But you say that there are politically connected parental groups pushing to get them enacted. Who are these groups? And what sort of tactics are they using to pressure lawmakers and schools?

BROMBERG: Sure. Well, you know, EveryLibrary is tracking this along with PanAmerica. And as of just last -- in the last school year ending in 2022 there are over 150 groups that we attract challenging books, over 4,000 challenges, and so there are many groups that are working in concert. They're sharing the same spreadsheets of books to challenge right down to the spelling errors, you know, in the titles and the mistakes.

And so they're working together behind the scenes here using private Facebook groups, et cetera, to challenge these books, but the books really aren't the issue. Again, you know, and again, Americans by overwhelming majorities understand this and don't support the banning of these books. The tactics they have been using have been to show up at school board meetings. I mean, it's really good local organizing that they're doing.

If they can turn out 10 or 20 people at a local school board meeting or at a state level, a committee hearing, you know, they can win the day right there. They've also been running and occasionally winning school board seats. So I think, you know, we're playing a little bit of catchup on that. It's very effective and we have some work to do in activating people, again most Americans who care about this to pay attention and then show up and speak up.

Show up at your local meetings, show up at your state level committee hearings and speak up, you know, let your legislators, let your school board members know that you oppose censorship, that you trust teachers and librarians to choose age appropriate materials over politicians who have, you know, some perhaps short-term political gains in mind.

BROWN: Peter Bromberg, thank you.

Well, one tennis player banned from the Australian Open last year is now making his case as possibly the greatest player ever. We're going to show you how, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:56:32]

BROWN: It's a party tonight in Philly. Fans of the Philadelphia Eagles, they are out on the streets celebrating's the bird's return to the Super Bowl. These are live pictures right here you're looking at. The Eagles advanced with a dominant victory over the injury riddled San Francisco 49ers in today's NFC championship.

Up next, the Super Bowl on February 12th and congrats to CNN's own Eagles super fan Jake Tapper who was at the game, I believe.

Well, Novak Djokovic is now neck and neck with Rafael Nadal in the debate over greatest tennis player of all time. Don Riddell has more on the victory that puts him on the cusp of history.

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: Hey, Pamela. Novak Djokovic really has continued his love affair with the Australian Open, winning the singles title for a record extending 10th time. Now having arrived in Melbourne nursing a hamstring injury a couple of weeks ago, the Serbian star just gained in strength and confidence throughout the tournament and then of course he won Sunday's final against Stefanos Tsitsipas in straight sets.

This, by the way, was a rematch of the 2021 French Open final but this one played out very differently. Back then Djokovic had to fight back from two sets down. Here, he was pretty much always in control. Djokovic had to work for it at times, though. The second and third sets were tied, decided only by tie breaks, but he dominated the third set breaker racing into a five love lead and then closing it out on match point when he hit a thumping forehand down the line that Tsitsipas just found too hot to handle.

Of course, Djokovic loves playing here but his victory this year was really different. It was a tale of redemption. Remember it came just 12 months after he was in Australia without a vaccination for the COVID-19 virus. He spent a week in a detention center before he was unceremoniously deported before the start of the tournament. But now he's a 10-time champion in Melbourne and he's up to 22 grand slam single titles in total tying him for the record with Rafael Nadal.

He also regained the world number one ranking because of this, and on reflection afterwards, he said that this had been actually one of the hardest trophies to win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK DJOKOVIC, 2023 AUSTRALIAN OPEN CHAMPION: I have to say that this has been one of the most challenging tournaments I've ever played in my life considering the circumstances not playing last year, coming back this year, and --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

DJOKOVIC: I want to thank -- I want to thank all the people that made me feel welcomed, made me feel comfortable to be in Melbourne, to be in Australia. I try to think to myself and really live through this moment and it's a long journey. I know this is also a long talk from my side but bear with me, guys. I just have to say this because only the team and the family knows what we've been through in the last four or five weeks and this probably is the -- I'd say biggest victory in my life considering the circumstances.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIDDELL: So the focus will now switch to Paris in the spring where Nadal will try to edge ahead of Djokovic by winning his favorite slam for a 15th time but what a match that would be if Djokovic and Nadal could go head-to-head for the all-time record in Roland Garros.

Djokovic, by the way, at the age of 35, is one of the oldest players on tour but you'd never guess, Pamela. He plays like he's one of the youngest. Back to you.

BROWN: He certainly does. Don Riddell, thanks so much.

I'm Pamela Brown. I'll see you again for my last show on weekend evenings at 8:00 p.m.