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Three Potential Shootings Thwarted; Prosecutors Place Murdaugh at Scene Before Murders; Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA) is Interviewed about the U.S. Boosting its Military in the Taiwan Area; Homeschooling Network under Investigation in Ohio. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 02, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: So long even the first few weeks of this year along we've talked about these mass shootings throughout the country and, obviously, that cause many, many Americans to lose their lives.

That having been said, we don't spend that much time talking about those potential mass shootings that have been thwarted by law enforcement. How important is it to talk about these cases, as troubling as they are, because they could have been equally as bad?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It's incredibly important, Bianna, because, as you mentioned, it gives us a look behind what might have happened, but for usually the intervention of law enforcement.

And I should also say that at a time when we seemed to be barraged by stories about law enforcement, you know, misadventures and short comings and in some cases we sort of overlook how incredibly challenging the job is particularly of just officers who are on patrol every single day confronting situations like this, and many, many others, and that is largely because of the unbelievable number of firearms that we have in this country. Law enforcement officers by definition are walking into situations like this all the time just assuming that they are going to confront weapons because in many or in most cases they do.

GOLODRYGA: And as we saw in Monterey Park there in California, and as we reported today in Omaha, I mean it is thanks to some brave civilians who confront the gunman himself. In California, obviously there had been a large loss of life, but who knows how many more could have been killed had that brave man not attacked and started to have an altercation with the gunman.

Do you actually recommend that people confront gunmen in these instances?

MCCABE: Well - well the training for civilians is typically run, hide, fight, right? Those are the - that's the kind of levels of response. If you have the opportunity to get away from the shooter, to get away from the situation, you should do that first. If you don't have that opportunity, if you're locked in a building with an active shooter, you should try to conceal yourself and hide from the shooter.

But when you are confronted with an armed gunman, someone who seems on the verge of inflicting violence, and there is no place to run and no place to hide, civilians are actually advised to fight, try to confront that person, get that weapon away. It may be your only chance before a very lethal encounter.

GOLODRYGA: So, does that mean that you think more Americans should have active shooting training? I mean this is -- I hate that I even have to ask this question, but we've seen training change in schools across this country. I mean, is this something that more and more Americans should be open to doing?

MCCABE: You know, as distasteful as it is to try to think -- you know, think down that road a little bit, are we becoming a country where everybody has to learn like personal defensive tactics and we -- we start hardening targets like local elementary schools? Nobody wants that.

But the fact is, we have 120 guns in this country for every person, right? We have double the number of privately owned weapons in this country than the second highest country on that list. We experience homicides by firearms at a rate 18 times higher than comparative well- developed countries. Twenty times higher than EU countries. Eight times higher than our neighbor north of the border in Canada. So, the fact is, life in this country, they're -- a fact of life in this country has become understanding that you may find yourself in a situation with a hostile actor who is armed. And so thinking through those situations and preparing yourself is - is the responsible thing to do.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, we are ranked up there with countries like Venezuela and Yemen. Clearly nothing to be proud about.

Andrew McCabe, thank you so much.

MCCABE: Thanks, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, any moment court will be back in session for day seven of the Alex Murdaugh murder trial. On Wednesday, prosecutors played the video that say undercut Alex Murdaugh's alibi the night his wife Maggie and son Paul were brutally murdered. The video was filmed on Paul's phone at 8:44 p.m. the night of the killings. Three different voices can be heard in the footage, and two family friends testified that one of the voices is Alex Murdaugh himself.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, he's got a bird in his mouth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bubba.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Bubba.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a guinea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a chicken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here, Bubba.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come here, Bubba.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catch (ph). Quit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose voices did you recognize on that video?

WILL LOVING, PROSECUTION WITNESS AND FAMILY FRIEND: Paul Murdaugh, Maggie Murdaugh and Alex Murdaugh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how sure are you?

LOVING: A hundred percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recognize Paul's voice?

[09:35:01]

ROGAN GIBSON, PROSECUTION WITNESS AND FAMILY FRIEND: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recognize Maggie's voice?

GIBSON: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recognize Alex's voice?

GIBSON: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundred percent?

GIBSON: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Can't get more confident than saying 100 percent.

Misty Marris is a defense attorney and she is now joining me.

So, Misty, Alex claims that he was never at the kennels at the time of their murder. Now you have two witnesses saying, under oath, that that was indeed his voice. How much of a game changer is this?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: This video was something that was foreshadowed by the prosecution. We knew it was coming. But now that it's here, and we have two witnesses, and both of these witnesses are long-time family friends. One of them said he's basically another Murdaugh family member. They're 100 percent identifying the voice is Alex Murdaugh.

So, now the question becomes, what's the prosecutor's timeline. Well, according to the prosecutors, the murders happened just about five minutes after Murdaugh, Alex Murdaugh, is now at the kennel.

Prosecutors are going to use this to say, see, jury, he's lying. He contrived this alibi. He contrived a reason that these murders occurred, blaming other people. He had this all planned out. He's a former prosecutor, and this is more evidence that he is lying and that he was there minutes before the deaths occurred.

GOLODRYGA: So what does this mean for his alibi and what does his defense team do now?

MARRIS: Well, we've seen where the defense is going and we saw it on cross-examination. So, it's really telling because the defense is saying, did you ever have any indication that Alex Murdaugh would do anything violent to his family? We also have the other Snapchat video which shows a nice moment between father and son from earlier in the evening. So, the defense is going to say, his demeanor, I mean this is not a guy who brutally murders his family minutes later.

And they're also going to focus on this two perpetrator theory. They have an alternative theory that there simply was not enough time for Alex Murdaugh to use two different weapons to brutally murder Maggie and Paul. So now prosecutors have it narrow down to about 8 seconds where these deaths occurred. This is all based on cell phone activity and lack of activity. The defense is going to take that, flip it on its head and say, well, eight seconds simply wasn't enough time for him to commit these crimes alone. So, we're going to see a lot more on that two-person alternative theory of the case.

GOLODRYGA: You mentioned cell phones and both Maggie and Alex's phone logs were introduced as evidence yesterday. And what's notable is that Maggie's phone log showed several missed calls and a texts from Alex. And Alex's, though, showed that there were no calls and no texts made. How does that compute? I mean could he have manually deleted those calls and that text?

MARRIS: And that's what the witness said, there's no other way that these five calls in this critical time period, this is between, you know, 8:00 and 9:00, when the murders occurred, that there's no other way for them to disappear from the phone. There's not overwriting data. They had to have been deleted.

And so the prosecutors are now going to say, he deleted them because it didn't fit his narrative. It didn't fit his alibi. And the defense is going to say something that I think is really interesting in this case, that this is June 7th, the day the murders occur. The phone isn't taken under the warrant until September. That is a long time. And the witness on the stand in cross-examination said, well, I don't know who or when the -- deleted these messages - or, excuse me, these phone calls.

So, that's going to be how the defense uses that to say, look, this time period, you can't really account for every single person who's touched that phone during that time period.

GOLODRYGA: It is fascinating. We also know that the judge is going to be weigh in on whether his financial hardships can be admitted in this case today. So, we'll be waiting out for that as well.

Misty, thank you. Always great to see you.

MARRIS: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, new overnight, the U.S. announcing plans for four new military bases in the Philippines, sparking a stark warning from China. I'll talk with Congressman Seth Moulton, a member of the new China Select Committee. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:22]

GOLODRYGA: Chinese officials reacting angry this morning to a U.S. move to gain access to military bases in the Philippines, saying the move, quote, escalated tension in the region and endangers regional peace and stability. Foreign ministry officials are responding to the U.S. striking a deal with the Philippines to access four more bases in the country, giving the U.S. its largest military presence on the island in 30 years.

The goal, to gain a strategic advantage in the fight over the South China Sea close to self-ruled Taiwan.

Well, joining me now is Congressman Seth Moulton, Democrat from Massachusetts. He has recently been appointed to sit on the newly formed select committee on China.

Congressman, great to have you on.

So, let's talk about this move. On the one hand it helps reassure regional allies that the U.S. has its back as China is becoming more aggressive in the South China Sea. On the other hand, it's coming as there are increased concerns about potential conflict between the two countries. I don't have to remind you that an Air Force general just recently noted that he fears that war could happen within the next year or two. Now, that's not the official line of the U.S. military, but it is stunning.

And my question to you is, does this deal now with Philippines, is it a sign that the U.S. is perhaps preparing for some kind of conflict?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Well, it's a sign that we're taking the threat of Chinese aggression seriously. And, Bianna, let me just say, as someone who's done four combat tours in Iraq, I know in a very personal way that we must avoid war with China. A war with China would be brutal.

And the key to preventing war with China is to show Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party that if they start a war, they will lose.

[09:45:04] Now, a key part of our strategy, to make sure that they lose any such war, is our relationship with the allies. You can see how important our allies have been in the Ukraine war in Europe. Our allies in the Pacific need some strengthening. I actually led a bipartisan congressional delegation to the Philippines in October. And one of the conclusions was, we need to do more to shore up our alliance with the Philippines. That's exactly what's happening today. So, the Biden administration deserves a lot of credit for this deal.

GOLODRYGA: So there's the military aspect here and the increased conflicts and tensions between the two countries. There's also an economic and national security conflict that's brewing as well. And I want to get you to respond to what Democratic Senator Michael Bennett of Colorado said. He's calling on Apple and Google to now completely remove TikTok from the app stores calling it a, quote, unacceptable threat to the national security of the United States.

Now, previously we had seen TikTok removed from certain government devices, right, but this is a completely larger, separate move.

Do you agree with that? Do you agree with that call, it is a national security threat?

MOULTON: Well, look, this is controversial because, of course, a lot of Americans like TikTok. But, at the end of the day, it is a threat to our national security.

And let me just speak for a second as a dad. I don't want an app that steals my daughter's data and influences their behavior on their phones. Now, they're too young to have phones right now, but they're going to get phones someday soon and I don't want a Chinese company stealing their data. That's exactly what TikTok does. And so it is a threat, not just to our national security rite large, but, frankly, to American families.

GOLODRYGA: So, do you think that Apple and Google should heed those warning and remove TikTok from their app stores?

MOULTON: Well, one of the things we're going to be discussing on the China committee is how to respond in a comprehensive way to all these national security threats, some of which come in the form of missiles pointed at Taiwan, some of which come in the form of apps that show up on our apps - on the app stores on our phones. And we're going to have to be able to develop a comprehensive strategy because maybe we should ban TikTok, but then what happens to the next TikTok that comes along?

So, these actions that Senator Bennett is - are -- is calling for on TikTok specifically, they probably make sense. But let's make sure we have a comprehensive policy so that the next app gets dealt with as well.

GOLODRYGA: Let me ask you to respond quickly to what prominent hedge fund manager Ray Dalio said this morning about China. And he said, we are at the brink of economic war with the country. Is he right?

MOULTON: Well, look, there's certainly a risk of that. But you also have to remember that our economies are incredibly intertwined. We depend on the Chinese market. We depend on Chinese suppliers and they depend on us.

What the Biden administration has been trying to do is take a targeted approach. Not completely shut off commerce with China, but say that if you're buying things that can be used against us militarily, you're not going to do that anymore. That's the kind of approach that we need to take.

Now, the challenge, of course, is extending this to things like the apps on your phone, like TikTok. That's more complicated. But that's exactly the kind of issue that we're going to examine on the China Select Committee.

GOLODRYGA: Listen, we are intertwined, but no one expected the two to start decoupling as quickly as we have, which is why so many fear of what's to come, both militarily and economically in just the few years ahead.

Congressman Seth Moulton, always great to see you. Thanks so much.

MOULTON: Good to see you, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still ahead, a homeschooling network with more than 3,000 subscribers is now under investigation in Ohio. This after reports that white supremacist material was included in the curriculum. But can the state actually put a stop to it? We'll look into it straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:52:50]

GOLODRYGA: An online homeschooling network is now under investigation in Ohio after parents reportedly shared white supremist educational materials and posted racist and homophobic messages. One homework assignments shared within the group featured quotes from Adolf Hitler.

CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us now with more.

So, this is beyond disgusting, Omar. I guess the question is, can state officials do anything about it?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's really the question right now. A state education official told me the Department of Education in Ohio, they're reviewing compliance with regulatory and statutory requirements, but it's not really clear what they can do about it since they don't control curriculum when it comes to homeschooling.

Now, this is a group that's believed to operate out of Upper Sandusky, Ohio. It's filled with pro-Nazi, white supremacist, homophobic, you name it it's probably in there, and they're not shy about it.

For example, a Thanksgiving, quote/unquote, lesson that they used about copywriting that they posted, copywriting, of course, trying to teach handwriting, but they use Hitler quotes to do so.

GOLODRYGA: Oh, my God.

JIMENEZ: And then as Martin Luther King Jr. Day approached, a user named, quote, Mrs. Saxon, wrote, it's up to us to ensure our children know him for the deceitful, dishonest, riot-inciting negro he actually was. He's the face of a movement which ethnically cleansed whites out of urban areas and precipitated the anti-white regime that we are now fighting to free ourselves from. And that's a lesson that bold and underlined was for elementary aged children.

GOLODRYGA: So this is what they're indoctrinating young children with. I mean how are school officials reacting?

JIMENEZ: Well, on one hand, you know, the Upper Sandusky School District superintendent called this egregious. Does not support this. This is not representative of who we are as a district. But did give the point as well, and as part of his statement, that parents are responsible for choosing the curriculum and course of study in homeschooling. The parent's chosen curriculum here is not sponsored or endorsed by the district.

The group's got more than 3,000 subscribers and climbing.

I've reached out to the group's creators. Haven't gotten a response here. But, obviously, something that the state is paying attention to.

GOLODRYGA: And it just raises the question, I mean, I'm sure most -- most homeschooling, right, it at the level, and they are teaching appropriate curriculum, but it does beg the question of how many other programs like this are out there?

[09:55:06]

JIMENEZ: Yes, this one just happens to be people connected through a social media messaging platform. But clearly, I was talking to one union teacher official who said that while this is not representative of all homeschooling environments, it does create the opportunity, without inherent oversight or inherent accountability for some of those gaps to be filled by a wide range of viewpoints here.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, I mean that's what it comes down to, oversight and accountability.

This is just horrific. Thank you so much, Omar.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

GOLODRYGA: Appreciate it.

Well, coming up, overnight, Russian missiles striking near a rescue operation. That's right, a rescue operation in Ukraine. CNN will take you to the front lines of the war. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:03]

GOLODRYGA: Top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

New this morning, new Russian missile strikes in Ukraine.