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California Police Kill Double Amputee; Hunter Biden Strikes Back?; China Tensions; Russian Missile Strikes Hit Eastern Ukraine; Alex Murdaugh Murder Trial. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 02, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:03]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. I am Kasie Hunt here in Washington.

But we're going to begin this hour in Eastern Ukraine with a barrage of missile strikes on the city of Kramatorsk. A CNN crew had to scramble to safety as a Russian missile exploded just a few yards away from them. It's an apparent example of the ruthless so-called double- tap missile strategy, hit a civilian target, wait for the first responders to arrive, and then hit it again.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is there with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We were going basically to the scene of where that missile strike took place last night on that residential building that killed several people, because, of course, there is still a big rescue operation going on there.

And we had just arrived at the scene, left our vehicles, when the house in front of which our vehicle was parked was hit by a missile strike. It was a really heavy explosion very close by, I would say maybe 40 or 50 yards from our location. So we then went trying to go into shelter, trying to go into a sheltered building.

And as we were doing that, I turned around and you could see the second missile hitting the exact same area. We already know that there were people who are severely wounded on the ground there. It's unclear if and how many people were killed. Of course, right now, there's a big rescue operation going on there.

But I think it's important for our viewers to understand that this area of this was in, there was an active search-and-rescue operation in a residential area. And, today, the Russians targeted exactly the same area with two very heavy missiles.

And this was as there were a lot of civilians there on the street. We didn't see anybody in the way of military on the streets or any sort of military installations. It was right in the heart of the town of Kramatorsk. Then, of course, we then decided to leave that area as fast as possible after we realized the coast was clear. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HUNT: Wow. Fred Pleitgen and crew, stay safe out there.

And just days after an American general warned that a war with China could be possible in a couple of years, there's a new spike in tensions. The U.S. has announced its military will get access to four more bases in the Philippines. And that could put American forces within 200 miles of Taiwan, as fears grow that China could invade that self-governing island.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon.

Oren, how is China responding to this?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, China appears to be furious, lashing out at the U.S., saying it's part of Washington's -- quote -- "selfish agenda" and accusing the U.S. of being the one to endanger regional peace and stability.

So, in many ways, similar language we have seen from China before, when the U.S. makes moves like this and expands its presence in the Indo-Pacific. We, of course, know that the latest U.S. national defense strategy is aimed towards China. And this is a broader part of that. You can see why China was so angry looking at that map again.

Just a few weeks ago, the U.S. announced that they would put a newly reorganized Marine unit on Okinawa, Japan, just about 200 miles off Taiwan's northern coast that would have advanced capabilities and some advanced anti-ship weapons, and now this. From China's perspective, this puts U.S. forces perhaps on the southern side of Taiwan in the Philippines.

The agreement, which was signed when Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was just in Manila and in the Philippines meeting with the leadership there, allows the U.S. to rotate troops through four more bases in the Philippines. Now, neither the U.S. nor the Philippines will say what those bases are.

But, a few months ago, a Philippine military official said the U.S. was looking at some bases and interested in bases in the Northern Philippines and then on the Western Philippines, which is right in the South China Sea, most of which China claims as its sovereign territory. So it's easy to see where all this tension comes from, and why China is so angry about this.

Kasie, from the 10,000-foot perspective, there is also the shift in the alignment of the Philippines. The previous president, Rodrigo Duterte, had moved the Philippines more towards Beijing, even threatening to kick U.S. forces out of the country. The new U.S. president -- I'm sorry -- the new Philippine president has come in and sort of realigned closer to Washington, a move that has not made China happy.

HUNT: Oren Liebermann, thanks very much for bringing us up to speed on that. Meanwhile, President Joe Biden's son unleashing a legal fight with key

figures on the right. Hunter Biden is requesting criminal investigations into people tied to the release of private information from his purported laptop. Hunter Biden's lawyers allege that Trump allies, including Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon, as well as a computer repair shop owner, broke the law to weaponize materials to smear his father.

Let's break this down with CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Evan, so this is the first time that Hunter Biden's camp is saying it is his personal data that was being trafficked, although they aren't confirming the narrative out there on the right about how it all got started. Lay out this new strategy for us.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the strategy is to turn the tables on some of his accusers.

These are people that he knows obviously have been going after him for the last four years. Some of this was first surfaced back in 2020, right, just before the 2020 election. And that's one of the references you see in these letters that Hunter Biden's team has now sent to the Delaware attorney general, to the Justice Department, to the IRS, asking for investigations of a number of these figures.

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You showed a picture -- pictures of some of these people that he is asking investigations of. And the view here is a claim. You can see it in this letter Abbe Lowell.

I will read you just a couple lines of it here, where he says that: "This failed dirty political trick directly resulted in the exposure, exploitation and manipulation of Mr. Biden's private and personal information." He says that this is information that is now on the Internet being used as a political cudgel against President Biden, his father.

And, obviously, Kasie, you know that there's a criminal investigation that's going on at the Justice Department. We also know that what he's -- we also know that House Republicans are trying to do investigations of Hunter Biden, trying to tie some of that stuff to his father, and they're using this now to fight back.

HUNT: Pretty interesting.

And, Jen, Abbe Lowell is a very aggressive, very well-known figure here in D.C. I mean, does he -- do he and Hunter Biden have a case? I mean, could this stick?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we don't really know enough to know that. But I think it's interesting, as Evan explained how they're going on the offensive.

But, yes, there are, in theory, crimes that could apply here, both Delaware state crimes and federal crimes, about unauthorized access of computerized information, the stealing of personal information. I mean, it's going to come down to who brought in the laptop, what the terms of the deal for service were, and whether the person in the laptop store stayed within those or did not.

But it is possible, although I suspect that because it's not like we didn't know about this laptop long ago, if the authorities in Delaware and on the federal side thought that there was a case to be made here, they probably already would be doing it on their own. And whether they are or not, we just don't know.

HUNT: Yes.

So, to that point, Jen, House Oversight announced that, next week, they're going to hold a hearing about whether Twitter suppressed the initial media news stories about Hunter Biden's laptop. I mean, how much of this is a P.R. and political? I mean, do these looming GOP probes explain the timing of this move?

RODGERS: I think they do.

I mean, I think they have decided that it's smart to take the offensive. I mean, listen, whether or not these other people are charged, whether or not the IRS actually revokes the nonprofit status of Marco Polo, one of the entities involved in spreading the laptop information, that doesn't really matter to Hunter Biden, right?

I mean, he's looking at his own criminal charges, potentially. But it paints them as bad actors. It paints it as a political hit job, as opposed to a legitimate look into possible criminal violations or ethical violations by both Bides.

And so I think it's smart to reframe and say, listen, I'm not the one who's done things wrong here. Look at how this all came about and what they have done. They're the bad actors here.

HUNT: So, Evan, I mean, talk to us about the Department of Justice's role in all this. They obviously started investigating Hunter Biden under Trump. So he is the target of a probe.

Now he's asking for another DOJ probe. Obviously, he is President Biden's son. Merrick Garland is President Biden's attorney general? I mean, this is a tough spot for him. What are the options?

PEREZ: Yes, look, none of this is clean -- is cleanly done, right, partly because, as you pointed, out all of these different connections.

But the issue here is that for -- certainly for the Justice Department, what Merrick Garland did as soon as he took office is, they handed over, made sure that this investigation was being handled by a Trump-appointed U.S. attorney in Delaware, kept him on, on the job to complete this investigation for more than two years.

And we anticipate that prosecutors are weighing whether to bring charges related to his tax issues, related to a gun that he purchased. We don't know -- or at least there were no indications that there was anything related to the laptop that might be in those charges. So, for now, at least, it appears that these might be separate things.

HUNT: Right.

So, Jen, if there was any evidence that was found on the laptop, if it was obtained illegally before it was handed over, is that evidence then unusable? And, to Evan's point, I mean, does that even matter? Does Hunter Biden still face legal liability regardless?

RODGERS: So, the FBI doesn't get tagged with things that private parties do, if it's done at the direction of the FBI.

So even if there had been an unauthorized intrusion by the laptop store owner, that sort of thing, as soon as the FBI comes in and seizes the laptop, assuming that they didn't do anything wrong in getting it, then they can use what's on it. They don't get tainted by that improper search or by that crime.

But we know they have had it for a long time. So you really do have to think that, to the extent that there was information on the laptop that led to a possibility of additional charges that don't have to do with the tax ones that he's already facing, that that would have been either wrapped into the Delaware investigation or perhaps sent somewhere else, a special counsel, that sort of thing.

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So, if they're not actually investigating that in Delaware, it's likely that it means that there aren't those sorts of crimes that show up on the laptop evidence.

HUNT: Very interesting.

All right, Evan, why have you I also want to ask you about a different topic, because you have got some new reporting. We have some new information that the FBI is planning to search Mike Pence's home for additional classified material. What can you tell us about that?

PEREZ: Yes, look, another day, another search, right?

And it just seems like almost every day, there's another one. But, in this case, we know that the FBI and the Pence team have been working, have been talking about scheduling a search of his home in Carmel, Indiana, as well as his office here in Washington. He has a think tank office here right across the street, as a matter of fact, from the FBI and the Justice Department.

And the idea is that that search will happen in the next coming -- next few days. In the case of the Pence team, they want to try to get this wrapped up as soon as possible. This is for now being handled as a review by the FBI working with the National Security Division at the Justice Department. There's no special counsel, in part because Pence is not a declared candidate, right?

There's no -- there's no presumed conflict of interest for the Justice Department to do this investigation. If you're Mike Pence and his team, you cooperate, you're trying to get this wrapped up as soon as you can, so that you can move on and perhaps announce that you're running for president in the coming weeks or months.

HUNT: Perhaps get on with the business that you actually want focus on.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

HUNT: Evan Perez and Jen Rodgers, thank you both very much for kicking us off today. Really appreciate your time.

Up next: They have never made this much money ever, oil companies posting huge, record profits for 2022. So why are gas prices still up there and going even higher?

Plus, protests growing after police shot and killed a double amputee who had a knife. Why his family says officers used excessive force.

And it's officially growing faster than any app in history. Why everyone is going wild for the artificial intelligence chatbot ChatGPT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:22]

HUNT: Right now in California, outrage is building as the family of a black man killed by police is preparing to file a wrongful death lawsuit.

One week ago today, police shot and killed Anthony Lowe. He was a double amputee who used a wheelchair. A bystander video that purportedly shows the moments before Lowe's death is raising questions about excessive force. But police say that Lowe had just stabbed someone and was threatening officers with a knife.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is live in Huntington Park, which is just outside of Los Angeles.

Stephanie, what more are Lowe's family and the police saying about this?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

Well, Kasie, obviously, the family very distraught, wanting to get justice for Anthony Lowe, the 36-year-old man who said -- it was a brother, a husband -- I'm sorry -- a brother and a son and an uncle, all these very important family members speaking about this.

And we expect to hear them later today speaking more about this. But what is coming into view is this video that we have seen on social media, which does show that there is a man outside of a wheelchair. He is moving away from police officers on what would be the stumps of his legs, moving away from them with something shiny in his hands. Now, according to the Huntington Park police, they're saying he had a

knife in his hand. And so that is something that they keep speaking about. In the one document that they have put out here, you see them following along after him. It does appear that they do try to Tase him.

And in their statement, they did say that they tried to Tase him twice. And then, from the view that you can see on social media, it is absconded a bit but you see the point when the officers who are following behind him take out their weapons and then begin to shoot. You do not actually see Anthony Lowe getting shot.

But, still, the way this looks of a double amputee moving away from police officers on what would be the stumps of his legs, is really what has so many people concerned here, Kasie, and that is why they're saying that they want justice for Anthony Lowe.

I have reached out to the police department to ask if there was body cameras that were being worn by the officers, asking for any more clarity. I have yet to hear back from them, but also expecting to hear more from the family today when they show up here shortly to speak about this wrongful death lawsuit they are expected to file.

HUNT: Very difficult.

All right, Stephanie Elam, keep us posted. Thanks very much for that report.

And let's stay on this now. Joining us is retired Los Angeles Police Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey.

Sergeant Dorsey, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate your time today.

What's your reaction to learning about this, a double amputee shot and killed by police? Was this excessive force? What is warranted as a next step?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: Well, certainly, the optics are bad.

But as a patrol sergeant who's responsible for managing, evaluating, supervising uses of force, there were certainly other options that these officers had. Officers are trained to use deadly force as a last resort after you have exhausted every other tool that's available to you.

And while they may have deployed their Taser, I have heard that it didn't work. I don't know what that means. I don't know if it was a malfunction on the Taser. Did they deploy the two cartridges that were contained and missed Mr. Lowe? Or did they strike him and just have no effect? I don't know what that means.

And so did they try to use pepper spray? Do they have pepper spray? Did they try to get cover and concealment if they felt threatened that he might throw the knife? We see him only really fleeing. We see his back to the officers.

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So I don't see any imminent threat. And that's the only time an officer can use deadly force, is to protect the life of themselves or someone else.

HUNT: Yes. No, it's very interesting.

I mean, you walked through a couple possibilities just then. I mean, what would these police officers have been trained to do in a situation like this?

DORSEY: Well, I don't know what their training is. Obviously, they don't have what I had on the Los Angeles Police Department. But

I, mean, generally the training is to try to, if a person goes in A foot pursuit -- in this case, that's what you have -- then you want to set up a perimeter, you want to request additional units. You want to block off this person's path. Additional units can help get others who might be in harm's way in front of him out of the way.

And that would be the ideal purpose. That would be the -- I would want to do that first, is try to, like I said, do everything that I can before I jump to deadly force. And so what's the urgency? I mean, I know he stabbed somebody. He's not stabbing in progress. He's fleeing. And he can only go so far, and so quick on those stubs.

And so I just think the officers acted too quickly. Now, if they're out there and they're afraid of a man with no legs, then this is the wrong profession for them.

HUNT: A pretty remarkable situation. And we're going to keep watching that. And we really appreciate your perspective on it.

I do want to ask you, though, the while I have you. President Biden is meeting today with members of the Congressional Black Caucus at the White House. And they're going to talk about police reform. And Biden is calling on Congress to pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, which we talked about quite a bit a year or so ago.

And, of course, this conversation is happening again in the wake of Tyre Nichols' death three weeks ago in Memphis. I just want to remind our viewers who may have forgotten about what this act would do. It would require police officers to complete training and racial profiling, implicit bias intervention, would increase body camera use, create a national database for officers who have misconduct allegations, and ban no-knock warrants and choke holds in some cases.

There are also questions, of course. The most controversial piece of this was qualified immunity and whether that should be extended to police officers or not. But it's been two years since this was introduced. There's still not the support to pass this bill.

What can Biden -- what can and should President Biden be doing right now on some of these issues? DORSEY: Well, we know that the Republicans are not going to pass this

with qualified immunity on the table. They have already said that's a nonstarter.

Having a registry, a national registry with names of officers who've been involved in misconduct is a joke, because we know that at least three of the officers involved in the Tyre Nichols murder were on a list. Chief Davis knew exactly who they were. She had disciplined them prior.

So, here in California, we have a senator by the name of Braffed, who -- Bradford, who has submitted legislation, Senate Bill 2 -- trying to remember what it's called, but it would certainly decertify police officers who engage in the kind of activities that we saw the officers engage in with Mr. Nichols.

And so, if you decertify a police officer, what happens is, it's much like a person who doesn't have a license to drive a car. You can't do so legally. You can't be a police officer. You can't resign and get that gift of resignation and move on to another department before they have the time to fire you.

And so, if you're decertified, if you don't hold a post-peace officer standards and training certification, that would be a great first start. And so I'm not even sure that the president on a national level can compel every 18,000 police chiefs and sheriffs to do that.

HUNT: Right.

DORSEY: But that would be a great start.

HUNT: All right, retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, thanks, as always, for your time today. We really appreciate it.

Let's go now to South Carolina and the trial of a disgraced former attorney charged with killing his wife and son. The latest testimony provided more details about the timeline of those murders. And it stirred debate over whether evidence of Alex Murdaugh's alleged financial crimes could be admitted.

CNN's Randi Kaye is outside the courthouse.

Randy, good to see you again.

Walk us through what's happened so far today.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, they were talking quite a bit more about this Snapchat video that was shared in court with the jury.

This is a video that was taken from Paul Murdaugh's cell phone. Now, this video was uploaded at 7:39 on June 7, 2021. That is the night of the murders. It was sent at 7:56 p.m. Now, the video shows -- as you will see, it's a video of a tree that's falling down on the property. Alex Murdaugh is standing in the video. Paul Murdaugh shot the video. You can hear him laughing. But what's significant is what Alex Murdaugh is wearing in that video. You can see he's wearing long pants and a long blue shirt. I will tell you why that's significant in just a moment.

But take a listen to a representative from Snapchat who testified today about the authenticity of it first.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is on the contents of this video?

HEIDI GALORE, SNAPCHAT OFFICIAL: It's a video of a subject near a tree. And it's a short video with some audio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you determine, reviewing the records, whether use -- excuse me -- that account sent out that particular video?

GALORE: Yes, it was sent on the same day, June 7, 2021, at 23 -- or -- I'm sorry -- 7:56 hours Eastern time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Now, the clothing is significant, as I said, because he's wearing the long pants and the long shirt.

But, at 10:07, when he called 911, and police arrived and investigators came, he was wearing shorts and a white T-shirt around the time of the murders. The prosecution will be suggesting and have sort of suggested very softly that he might have killed his family, changed his clothes, washed up, and that's why you see that video.

At 7:56, he's wearing that and then the video at 8:45, later in the night, and also when the police arrive, you see him in different clothing. Now, the defense, of course, cross-examined her. And she was asked, well, does Paul Murdaugh share his location? In other words, could somebody else have seen where he is and come and killed him?

And she wasn't quite clear on who could see his location in that Snapchat video, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, Randi Kaye, thanks very much for the update on that.

And a quick programming note here. It's the story of how, in a few short years, two brothers from Florida fueled the opioid epidemic legally. Here's a preview of the new CNN film "American Pain."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The George brothers did not start the opioid crisis, but they sure as hell poured gasoline on the fire. They became the largest street level distribution group operating in the entire United States. Nobody put more pills on the streets than they did, nobody. They

created a blueprint for how this is to be done. And they were operating in broad daylight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scale of this enterprise, I mean, it was enormous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had addicts streaming in from all over the country, thousands of miles, just to come to Florida to get drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you see what's going on inside that clinic, your jaw just falls to the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't be sniffing your pills in the parking lot, shooting up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd been on the job as a special agent for over 20 years. I have seen a lot of crazy. This was just bad (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: See the true story the "Variety" calls a gripping documentary portrait.

The new CNN film "American Pain" premieres Sunday night at 9:00 right here on CNN.

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