Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S. Authorities Continue to Monitor Chinese Spy Balloon Floating across Continental United States; Secretary of State Antony Blinken Delays Diplomatic Trip to China after Discovery of Chinese Spy Balloon; Parts of Northeastern U.S. Suffering Under Severe Cold Weather. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired February 04, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:34]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: A good Saturday morning to you. It is Saturday, February 4th. I'm Amara Walker.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Boris Sanchez. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. Thank you so much for sharing part of your Saturday morning with us.

We begin with an eye towards the sky. We're getting new reports about the location of that Chinese spy balloon that has been drifting across the country. According to reports, it has been spotted over North Carolina, and officials say it could move off the east coast and out over the ocean in a matter of hours.

WALKER: And as you would imagine, the balloon is raising national security concerns, and it is adding to the tension between Washington and Beijing. It was people on the ground in Montana who spotted the balloon as it passed overhead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That thing is not the moon. The moon is right there. This thing is so weird. It is definitely moving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The context and the timing of this are really important. The Secretary of State Antony Blinken called it an irresponsible act by China. Keep in mind, this comes just days before he was supposed to head to Beijing. He has now postponed that highly anticipated trip.

WALKER: And defense officials have advised President Biden against shooting that balloon down. But that decision could change. China claims the balloon is a civilian airship used mainly for weather research and that it was blown off course, but no one here in the U.S. is doubting that this was indeed a spy balloon.

We are covering the story from multiple angles. We will have live reports from our correspondents, from the Pentagon, to Beijing. And we're going to begin with our Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann. Hey there, Oren. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, he is standing by his decision to postpone his trip to China. What are you hearing from him?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It was a massive decision, because this was a very high stakes visit for Washington and especially for Beijing, especially given the level of tensions between the two countries right now. It would have been the first visit from the top U.S. diplomat to Beijing in six years. And then the decision was made to postpone that because of how severely the U.S. views this, a violation of U.S. airspace, they've called it, and a violation of international law.

Take a look at this map here. You get a sense of where this has been over, essentially the heart of America over the course of the past several days, from where it was first spotted over Montana on Thursday, then sightings in Missouri a little later on, throughout the course of the week, and now spottings in, at least reports of sightings in Asheville, North Carolina, right about over the center of North Carolina, as this makes its way east. Two defense officials have said it is expected to head out over the ocean an little later on today, perhaps somewhere over the Carolinas, based on how the winds are going at this moment. So we keep looking for more sightings and expect more of those given that it is the day.

But again, back to Secretary of State Antony Blinken, how severely he views this, here is what he said after announcing his decision to postpone at least for now that trip to Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I made clear that the presence of this surveillance balloon in U.S. airspace is a clear violation of U.S. sovereignty and international law, that it's an irresponsible act, and that the PRC's decision to take this action on the eve of my planned visit is detrimental to the substantive discussions that we were prepared to have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: In terms of where Pentagon thinking stands at this moment, President Joe Biden had asked for military options when it was first spotted over the United States. The Pentagon advised against shooting it down, at least partially because of the risk to people and property on the ground. If you blow something up at 60,000 feet, you risk a rather large debris field over a significant chunk of U.S. territory.

So they allowed the balloon to keep on going for now, but they said if the risk level from this balloon changes, that decision could change. So of course, the key question is what happens when this heads out over the coast, over U.S. water, and then into international waters beyond that. That's the area where we're looking at where the Pentagon thinking, the U.S. national security thinking might change on whether to shoot this down or not. Boris and Amara, it is worth noting there is a significant amount of

pressure coming from Capitol Hill, especially Republicans urging the Biden administration to take a harder line and to shoot this thing out of the sky.

SANCHEZ: Then it may happen, as we said in a matter of hours, so we'll keep an eye out for that. Oren Liebermann from the Pentagon, thank you so much.

[10:05:00]

We want to pivot now to the China angle of this, because the Chinese have offered an explanation and a rare apology for this balloon incursion.

WALKER: For more now on China's response, including new reaction today, let's get to CNN correspondent Selina Wang. Hey there, Selina, what are you hearing?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Amara, that's right, China's explanation here is that it is a weather balloon that's gone off course. And what is really extraordinary, although the Pentagon of course isn't buying that claim, but what is really extraordinary here is that they expressed regret. This is extremely rare, I don't ever remember the Chinese government putting a statement out like this since my time covering China.

And essentially, it is a major shift from the regular playbook from Beijing of either hitting back or denying. So the foreign ministry said, quote, "It is a civilian airship used for research, mainly meteorological purposes, affected by the Westerlies and with limited self-steering capability. The airship deviated far from its planned course. The Chinese side regrets the unintended entry of the airship into U.S. airspace."

Now Amara, the decision making of the Chinese government is a black box, but this softer response from Beijing makes it clear that China is trying to lower the temperature. But in another statement today, the foreign ministry did accuse some politicians and the media in the U.S. to hyping up the incident to, quote, attack and smear China. There is also an editorial in Chinese state media asking why China would be clumsy enough to rush spy balloons into U.S. airspace when it has more advanced reconnaissance satellites.

So we are left with the mystery of why Beijing let this happen, if it was a deliberate procedure or if it was an accident. It is, however, embarrassing for Beijing and derails the meeting with Secretary of State Antony Blinken that China had been gearing up for months for. Boris and Amara?

SANCHEZ: Yes, and Selina, on that note, what is the reaction to Blinken's decision to postpone his trip? What does it mean for the broader U.S.-China relationship?

WANG: Well, following on this softer response we've been seeing from Beijing, they said that they respect the U.S.'s decision when it comes to Blinken's trip here. Now, look, there were already low expectations for any concrete outcomes from Blinken's trip to China, but the whole point of the trip was to put guardrails on this relationship. The event highlights the mutual distrust between both sides and what some experts say is why a face-to-face meeting right now is more than important than ever.

And it is important here to not that it is not in China's Leader Xi Jinping's best interest for this meeting to be postponed. This was supposed to be a part of China's reopening to the world after ending zero COVID. China wants to improve ties with the U.S. It wants to reengage with high level U.S. officials, and it really wants to focus on boosting its damaged economy, rebuilding those trade ties, those economic links. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Selena Wang reporting from Beijing, thank you so much for that.

WALKER: All right, to our other big story that we've been following all morning, portions of the northeast are finally warming up, and we're speaking relatively warming up a bit, this morning, after some record-breaking, face-numbing, finger-numbing, you name it, cold. More than 20 million people are under windchill alerts this morning, but those should end in the coming hours as temperatures are going up, winds are dying down. Windchills of 50 to 60 below zero have been reported across some areas.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and it shouldn't surprise you, it is setting records. Mount Washington in New Hampshire likely set a new national record for lowest windchill on Friday night, the windchill hitting negative 108 degrees Fahrenheit. At those temperatures, someone with exposed skin can get frostbite within minutes, as we take a look at what it looks like outside of Mount Washington right now. The extreme weather is creating some rare sights across the area, the freezing wind blowing across the warmer waters of Lake Champlain, leading to this steam devil that is swirling above the late.

CNN, of course, has team coverage. We have CNN's Gloria Pazmino who is live for us in New York, but we start with Athena Jones in Boston. Athena, below zero for much of the morning. You told us you were looking forward to reaching zero degrees earlier this morning because it was so cold. How is it now?

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Boris. Well, it is still quite cold. We're not quite at zero yet. At last check, we were at negative one at 9:48. So that's about 20 minutes ago. And my phone still says negative one. We're waiting on the hourly update from Boston Logan Airport. But these windchill warnings here in Boston are in effect until 1:00 p.m. So that's a sign of when things are really going to begin to get better.

Now, the National Weather Service Boston did just tweet that we are passed the peak of the cold, that's why we're inching into the low single digits on the positive side over the next couple of hours, but they warn that the next few hours will still be dangerous. You mentioned several records having been set. I spoke earlier about records set in Boston, also Providence and Worcester, another town and in Massachusetts, yesterday.

[10:10:04]

Well, this morning with the low of negative 10 at Logan Airport, that is a new record here in Boston. The National Weather Service confirming that. You have to go back to 1957 to see a double-digit negative temperature. Also records in Providence, negative nine. Hartford, Connecticut, also negative nine. So this has been in many ways an historic weather event. And as I mentioned, millions of people are still under some sort of windchill alert here, in Boston, until 1:00 p.m. across the region, perhaps other times of expiration.

And so officials are still warning folks to continue to heed the usual precautions. Stay inside if you can, layer up if you go outside, check on your neighbors, and also keep your pets inside. But this is going to be ending in the next, the coldest part, in the next several hours. Boris, Amara?

WALKER: All right, a little bit of good news. But yes, check on your neighbors, and of course check on your pets. Athena Jones, thank you very, very much.

Let's turn it over now to Gloria Pazmino in New York. Gloria, we know the city has a major homeless population, and they're focused on making sure there's enough shelter to meet demand.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Amara and Boris. The city, unfortunately, has been dealing with a near record level number of homeless people in the last year, 67,000 people are sleeping on homeless shelters every night, according to the most recent estimate, which is from November. That includes more than 21,000 children. But one of the biggest concerns today and last night is people who are street homeless, those who are not going into a homeless shelter every night, there is an estimate, there is at least -- there is more than 3,000 people who are street homeless here in New York City.

The city has activated code blue. That means that once the temperature drops below 32 degrees, there are teams of outreach workers around the entire city making sure that those who are out here in these frigid temperatures can be brought inside for all the obvious safety reasons. The city opening up all its shelters today, asking questions, asking no questions to anyone who may be in need of a place to warm up, to eat, to spend the night. The city workers out in force, trying to do that.

Now, I am standing right outside of Central Park, usually a buzzing tourist destination on a Saturday morning. It is pretty quiet out here. But I have seen a steady stream of people walking their dogs and people who are out on morning jogs. I don't know how they're doing it. I've got my layers on. The sweater, the fleece, the underwear warmers, everything so that you can get through these very cold temperatures.

The good news is that it is not going to last very long. We do expect to see a warmup tomorrow. But for the next couple of hours, the city out in force, making sure that those who need it are brought inside, and brave New Yorkers, as you often see them do, braving the very frigid temperatures out here today.

SANCHEZ: We saw some of those brave souls behind you, good for them, good for them. Keeping their fitness a priority. Gloria Pazmino, live from New York, thanks so much.

WALKER: Thanks, Gloria.

Well, Mount Washington in New Hampshire saw what might be the worst weather in America. At 6,288 feet, it is the highest peak in the northeastern U.S. This morning, temperatures hit a record negative 47 degrees. And the wind brought the feel-like temperature to another record negative 108 degrees. How is that even possible? I don't know. This morning, I spoke with a weather observer about the challenges of working there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCIS TARASIEWICZ, EDUCATION SPECIALIST, MOUNT WASHINGTON OBSERVATORY, NEW HAMPSHIRE: We actually had one of our doors burst open during the peak of the storm, and they helped us save our employees, that is they helped us to repair the door in a very timely manner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?

TARASIEWICZ: But in terms of -- yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The door just slammed open, or swung open in the middle of the storm?

TARASIEWICZ: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was that like?

TARASIEWICZ: So briefly terrifying. It took about three of us or so to keep the door closed while those winds were blowing in excess of 100 miles per hour. We eventually got a new latch for it. And so it's nice and secure. We got a piece of plywood as well to secure it in place, and so we're hoping that's a good fix, at least in the short term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: And that gentleman there you saw works at the Mount Washington Observatory which is a nonprofit that collects data and researches the weather out there. Many outdoor enthusiasts are drawn to the summit because its extreme conditions are set to rival those of Mount Everest.

SANCHEZ: It looks like an unpleasant picture there.

Let's go to CNN's Allison Chinchar. She is live in the Weather Center for us. And Allison, the expectation is that these temperatures are not going to last long. Man, they're intense.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: They are. It's a very brief cold snap, but as you said, very extreme in neither. Here is a live look at Mount Washington. The sun is out. It looks beautiful. You just can't tell how truly cold it is unless you're out there.

[10:15:04]

Right now, the actual temperature in Mount Washington, minus 29, but with the 75 mile-an-hour wind, sustained winds, and that is hurricane strength at 75 miles an hour. It feels like it is minus 79. Much better compared to the minus 108 that it felt just a few hours ago. Quite balmy. We do still have some windchill warnings and windchill advisories in effect. Some of them are starting to drop off now, now that things are beginning to rebound, but it's really going to be another several hours before we get those temperatures back to a little bit closer to what they should be this time of the year.

It feels like minus 24 in Portland, minus 22 in Burlington. Boston is also minus 22. Even Providence feeling like it's minus 18. We talked about the short nature, though, and that's the good thing. By the time we get to tomorrow, temperatures not only rebounding, but actually getting to be above average for a change. So quite the rollercoaster of temperatures in the next 24 hours. Boston going from a high temperature of only 18 today to 48 tomorrow, which is actually 10 degrees above where they normally would be this time of the year. Portland, Burlington, New York, even Buffalo, all of those locations, Boris and Amara, also going to be above average tomorrow.

SANCHEZ: Quite the swing, we hope everybody stays safe, and of course, they keep their pets safe as well. Allison Chinchar, thank you so much for the update.

Still ahead, we have new developments to share with you in the Tyre Nichols case. Why another officer is out of a job, and why some first responders have lost their licenses.

WALKER: Plus, police in New Jersey on the hunt for whoever murdered a local councilwoman. The case so far generating just a few leads. What we're learning about the councilwoman and the search for her killer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:50]

WALKER: Another Memphis police officer has been fired and two first responders have had their licenses suspended following the violent arrest and death of Tyre Nichols. Police say Preston Hemphill can be seen on body camera footage tasing Nichols, and then later he is heard saying, quote, "I hope they stomp his ass." Hemphill is the eighth officer to lose his job.

As for the first responders, the Tennessee Emergency Medical Services Division is suspending them for failing to render aid to Nichols. CNN's Nadia Romero joining me now. Gosh, just talking about this story, this is heartache all over again. So let's start with the former officer Hemphill. What is the police department saying about his termination?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So we know that there had been five officers fired, Amara, and then we had these two other officers that were kind of in limbo. They were on paid administrative leave. They were still investigating. So now we know that he is joining those other officers, Hemphill now being fired, and is now being looked at for these departmental policy violations. And there is a long, long list of violations here, personal conduct, truthfulness.

And that's one that I really want to point out here, because we expect our police officers across this nation to be honest, to tell us exactly what happened. But we know that the police report and what we saw on video did not match. So that is important there, the truthfulness element. He's also being -- alleged that he had violations for his use of his taser and other items, so that is why he is being fired.

But remember, these are just policy violations of the police department. They are not criminal charges like the other officers. I want you to see this statement released from his lawyer that says, "While we disagree with Preston Hemphill's termination from the Memphis Police Department, Mr. Hemphill will continue to cooperate with all investigating agencies in the death of Tyre Nichols."

The district attorney's office says they are still investigating. Remember, these investigations can take a really long time. She says that at this point they are still looking into whether or not there will be criminal charges for Hemphill. But let's look at the five other officers who had already been fired, now indicted on several charges, and that includes some really severe charges here. We're looking at second-degree murder and aggravated assault, those are two of the most severe charges that these five officers are now facing. We already saw them in court, and we know that these officers have already been fired. Now you're adding in an additional officer, Hemphill. There is a seventh officer, can you believe it, a seventh officer, who is on paid administrative leave, we are still waiting to hear if there are any charges, whether they're policy violations or criminal charges, against that police officer as well.

And then you go to, from the police department, now to the fire department, because so many people arrived on scene, and now there's these allegations of wrongdoings. Two EMTs fired last week, and now we know that their licenses have been suspended. Why is that? Because there's the claim that they spent 19 minutes, despite the patient exhibiting clear signs of distress, so they did not render aid. And Amara, this is important because it means that they can't just go to the next county or the next city over and get a job as an EMT.

But none of this would be happening if it wasn't for the family of Tyre Nichols and local activists that would have been pushing and pushing for weeks demanding justice, demanding they see videos. That's why we are where we are today.

WALKER: Yes, absolutely. And it will be interesting to see if criminal charges indeed follow. As you mentioned, those are just police policy violations. Thank you so much, Nadia Romero. Boris?

SANCHEZ: A New Jersey community is in mourning after a beloved councilwoman was shot and killed. Eunice Dwumfour, a long-term civil servant, was shot several times while she was apparently sitting in her car. CNN's Jean Casarez brings us the latest on the investigation to find her killer.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Boris, Amara. The investigation is continuing in who is responsible for the brutal murder of the New Jersey city councilmember, Eunice Dwumfour.

[10:25:00]

Now, what we can tell you is that multiple agencies are participating in this criminal investigation. They sent dogs out to the wooded area, I think we have video of that, where they are searching. But we also know that this did happen on Wednesday night, about 7:20. It was right outside of where she lived. She was in her car, and witnesses say they heard multiple gunshots. Those gunshots were going into her car. When law enforcement arrived at the scene, she was already deceased.

Now, police have not held a press conference, prosecutors office has not held a press conference. There are no updated press releases at all. But I spoke with Glenn Skarzynski, who is the business administrator for Sayreville Borough, which is where Eunice Dwumfour was a still member. He says that law enforcement have many, many tips at this point, and they are pouring over what they have at this point. But he also added that everyone in their community is hoping that sooner or later that this will be solved. Boris, Amara?

SANCHEZ: Jean Casarez, thank you very much.

Coming up, a lack of teachers in the classroom, how shortages across the country are leading some districts to cancel class, and what is being done to fix the problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:36]

SANCHEZ: Incredibly, no one was injured or killed when a train went off the rails, sparking a massive fire in east Ohio overnight. It happened near the town of East Palestine, which is close to the Pennsylvania border. As crews work to get those flames out, the mayor says they're now facing a new problem -- freezing temperatures.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR TRENT CONAWAY, EAST PALESTINE, OHIO: We're a rural community. We do have a water system in town, but what we're having to do is use tanker trucks to haul the water into the scene also to alleviate some of the burden on our water system. So they're leaking water on the roads, and so we are having to put salt and other grindings down on the road for traction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The mayor says they're not releasing exactly what those cars that caught fire contained, but there is concern over hazardous materials. We're told the EPA is now onsite monitoring air quality. Evacuation orders and shelter in place orders, we should note, remain in effect. WALKER: The U.S. is announcing a new aid package worth nearly $2.2

billion for Ukraine. Some of the weapons included in the package are ground launched small diameter bombs, 190 heavy machine guns, anti- aircraft guns, precision-guided rockets, and medical supplies. The U.S. has now committed $30 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden administration.

And new details this morning on the growing nationwide teacher shortage. Data from the Department of Education shows that this school year alone, 47 states have reported a shortage in educators, with the problem being most acute in urban and rural areas.

SANCHEZ: And now some K-12 schools are being forced to cancel class all together. CNN's Rene Marsh has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's Lala Bivens' first day at a new school.

LALA BIVENS, STUDENT: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you? First day.

BIVEN: Yes.

MARSH: The 10th-grader started fall classes at One City preparatory academy, a new charter school in Madison, Wisconsin. But on January 13, the school says a teacher shortage forced it to shut down classes for ninth and 10th graders.

BIVENS: Teachers were just dropping like flies.

KALEEM CAIRE, FOUNDER AND CEO, ONE CITY SCHOOLS: I often hear from young people --

MARSH: The school's CEO Kaleem Caire tells CNN the school lost five core academic teachers since the beginning of the school year, and despite a national recruitment effort he could not fill the positions.

BIVEN: This is A wing. That's B wing. And right there is U wing.

MARSH: The school helped Lala and 61 other students scramble to find new schools midsemester. After a week of missed classes, her mother enrolled her at a local public high school. CNN was there for the first day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a spot for you.

BIVEN: Over there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right over there.

MARSH: What's playing out in Madison, Wisconsin is the worst-case scenario of a national teacher shortage gone unchecked. Department of Education data shows 47 states have reported teacher shortages this school year with the problem most acute in urban and rural areas.

Meanwhile, some state legislatures are passing laws making it easier to become a public school teacher.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raise your hand.

MARSH: The National Council on Teacher Quality says from January 2021 to January 2023, 23 states have lowered teacher qualification requirements, from lowering or removing assessment tests that determine whether teachers grasp the subject they will teach to creating emergency teacher certificates to expedite candidates without a teaching degree in classrooms. Arizona, Florida, and Oklahoma have created new pathways for people without a bachelor's degree to teach in classrooms.

LINDA DARLING-HAMMOND, PRESIDENT, LEARNING POLICY INSTITUTE: When states respond to shortages by reducing standards rather than by increasing salaries and improving working conditions, what they're doing is creating a vicious cycle. So they get people in who are underprepared and those people leave at two to three times the rate of those who come in with preparation.

MARSH: Back in Madison, Wisconsin, Superintendent Carlton Jenkins' school district will absorb most students transferring from one city charter school despite his district dealing with its own teacher shortage.

DR. CARLTON JENKINS, SUPERINTENDENT, MADISON METROPOLITAN SCHOOLS: I know our staff is, like, amazing. They do magical-type work. It's still a challenge, and eventually it brings stress on the staff.

MARSH: And the incoming students may already be behind.

[10:35:01]

BIVENS: When I didn't have enough teachers in my classes it was very hard because we didn't really learn anything.

KIMBERLY WALKES, MOTHER OF STUDENT: And they have so many great opportunities, and to hear that was no longer being afforded to her, it broke my heart and brought me to tears.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Still ahead, the College Board is under fire after critics say that its advancement placement course on African American studies was stripped down to follow the state of Florida's controversial anti- woke law. Up next, we're going to speak to Nikole Hannah-Jones, the creator of "The 1619 Project," to get her take. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: The group that creates advanced placement courses for high school students is pushing back on claims that it watered down its new African American studies course because of conservative criticism. The College Board released the final framework on Wednesday, after Florida's Education Department initially rejected it, claiming the pilot framework was an attempt to impose a political agenda.

[10:40:06]

In the new framework, many of items in the course that Governor Ron DeSantis objected to were altered. They include the Black Lives Matter movement, black queer studies, reparations, and mass incarceration. Those are now elective lessons instead of being required. That has led to claims that the College Board was pressured to make those changes because of politics.

We're pleased this morning to discuss this issue with Nikole Hannah- Jones. She's the Pulitzer Prize winning creator of "The 1619 Project," and of course, a staff writer for "The New York Times." Nikole, we're grateful that you are sharing part of your morning with us. Thanks for joining us. First, on this idea that the board is putting forward that this is about intellectual freedom, as opposed to students being focused on individual subjects that places like Florida have an objection to.

NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES, "1619 PROJECT" COFOUNDER: Well, I mean, the point of an African American studies course is to introduce students to a broad range of intellectual subjects, having to do with the black American experience. So it's not just a history course. It's called studies for a reason. It has literature. It has sociology. It has history as well. And I think what we're seeing is just a continued pattern in Florida, but in other Republican-leaning states, of really trying to proscribe academic freedom and to really limit what educators are able to introduce students to in the classroom.

SANCHEZ: So do you think that the course is diminished, the purpose of the course is diminished by these subjects being made elective instead of required?

HANNAH-JONES: Absolutely. Of course, the College Board denies that it made these changes due to political pressure from Governor Ron DeSantis. But this was a very carefully vetted curricula that was created with input from subject matter experts like the renowned scholar Henry Louis Gates, and so I think it certainly is diminished that students are not going to get the required access to so many important subject matters. How do you have African American studies course that doesn't deal with mass incarceration? Why would reparations as a subject be out of the purview? How would you not teach about the work of critical academic scholarship, like Critical Race Theory and scholars like Kimberle Crenshaw? All of this is within the range of a black studies curriculum. And the people who are making this decision about what they think is appropriate are not experts in the field, and they certainly are not experts in the black American experience.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned Kimberle Crenshaw. She is one of the authors that critics of the original curriculum described as left-leaning. Her work, including some of the other intellectuals that share her perspectives, those have been removed, while the board added black conservativism as a suggested research project. Do you think it should be a goal of the curriculum to try to present a politically balanced view of issues? HANNAH-JONES: Well, what's interesting about this is they want to have

it both ways. So on the one hand, Governor DeSantis is saying that this should be about history and not politics. And then he specifically is targeting people who he believed had politics that are to the left, and insisting upon showcasing people whose politics agree with his. So they are making it political, which just goes to the truth that black history has always been politicized, black people have always been politicized, and we're seeing more of that.

As a whole, do the views of Kimberle Crenshaw reflect more accurately the views of most black Americans, or do black conservatives who have been handpicked by idealogues in the Republican Party of Florida? Clearly, I would think that Kimberle Crenshaw is more representative.

And I don't think anyone has a problem with a black studies course that really has a wide range of political views. But we shouldn't see this type of targeting by a vetted curricula that has had subject matter experts weighing in. You don't, to me, get to choose, well, I don't want students learning about blackness and queerness. Well, that is part of African American life. These are realities.

So this is where we are, and I really think it is shameful if the College Board did respond to this politicization of black studies. We don't see these same types of fights over Asian studies, over European studies, but when it comes to black history, we want to treat this as a political playground.

SANCHEZ: I wanted to get your perspective on, this because of your work with "The 1619 Project." It is notable that the curriculum, when it comes to slavery, Reconstruction, the Civil Rights movement, that part of the curriculum remained relatively unchanged.

[10:45:05]

I'm wondering, given what you know about it, how you would rate the accuracy of that portion of the curriculum?

HANNAH-JONES: So I haven't had time to go in depth with the curriculum, but again, based on what I know about the scholars who consulted on it, I'm sure that it does present a much, much fuller understanding of those periods than what students typically get in a social studies or history course in their K-12 education.

I think though -- I'm sorry, I was going to say, what is being challenged though, is people like Ron DeSantis are not trying to claim slavery didn't happen, obviously. What they are trying to do is minimize the legacy of slavery, the impact that a nation founded on slavery has had on the lives of black people today. That's where all of this contention really resides. But you have black people, you have a country where black people are at the bottom of every indicator of well-being. Where does that come from? We need to be able to use the past to help us understand our country today.

SANCHEZ: Nikole Hannah-Jones, we very much appreciate your perspective. Thanks for the time.

HANNAH-JONES: Thank you.

WALKER: -- conversation.

Well, first, it was the Swifties, now it's Beyhive's turn to try their luck with Ticketmaster. I am so not cool on how to like to read what I was reading. I know Beyonce. I'm a huge fan. This after the company made changes and faced an intense Senate hearing. But will it all make a difference? We're going to break it down when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:59]

WALKER: Well, if you're a Beyonce fan, the anticipation has been building. The first round of tickets for Beyonce's world tour goes on sale in just two days, and Ticketmaster is already preparing fans for some major disappointment. The Renaissance tour begins in May with several stops in Europe before moving to North America in July.

But Ticketmaster says early demand for tickets has already exceeded supply by 800 percent, even after increasing the number of shows. Ticketmaster is already under heavy scrutiny after its botched Taylor Swift pre-sale, remember that, in November, and those issues started before tickets even officially went on sale. It was during the pre- sale.

Now, lawmakers as well as fans are watching to see how this round of sales goes. Joining me now is Dean Budnick, editor in chief of "Relix" magazine and author of "Ticket Masters, the Rise of the Concert Industry and How the Public Got Scalped." A pleasure to have you on, sir.

Ticketmaster, as we're saying, is already trying to manage expectations by acknowledging that there really is not enough tickets, barely going to meet demand, right? I mean, what should fans be bracing for?

DEAN BUDNICK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, RELIX: Listen, I think the fact that Ticketmaster already conveyed this particular message that there might be an issue, this 800 percent more demand than tickets, I think it should just make people be aware, above and beyond that, if you're a fan and you want to go to see these shows, it is essential to go on and pre-register. There are three separate groups that are allowing people to at least enter the verified fan pre-sale.

WALKER: Did Ticketmaster learn anything else after the Taylor Swift fiasco? These were pre-sale tickets, and of course, the system got overloaded, and then Ticketmaster had to say, all right, hold on, no more public sales for now. Any lessons learned they're applying this time around?

BUDNICK: First and foremost, last time, all of those ticket sales took place simultaneously across 52 stadiums, which is a lot of demand on the system. This time around, Ticketmaster divided things up into three separate verified fan pre-sale group. The on sales, again, are going to be divided into three greens, and there is a credit card pre- sale. And last time, that credit card pre-sale, all one had to do was enter in one's credit card number, the first six numbers, to be part of it. This time, that, too, is going to be part of this verified fan pre-sale, again, divided into three separate registrations.

WALKER: OK, what do you think about this approach?

BUDNICK: Listen, I think at the end of the day, it's a step in the right direction. I think some people are going to be unhappy because ultimately, it's supply and demand. And the big issue isn't the individual, the people who want to go see the shows, it's the people who want to resell tickets to people who want to see the shows. So it remains to be seen to what extent the system will be able to hold up to bot technology and general attacks from people who have no inclination, who aren't hardcore fans, and simply want to see Beyonce.

WALKER: I will ask you about the bots in a minute, but also the other larger issue is a lack of competition, right? All you know is of Ticketmaster. How much of the market share do they have?

BUDNICK: Well, look at it this way. When it comes to stadium shows, they dominated, 47 of the 52 Taylor Swift shows in stadiums were sold by Ticketmaster. This time around, it's 31 of 33. And just yesterday, Senator Amy Klobuchar sent a letter to the president of Live Nation, which owns Ticketmaster, and asked a number of these very pointed questions following up on the Senate Judiciary hearing.

[10:55:00]

WALKER: And what role are the bots and the scalpers playing in the chaos that we've seen playing out with Taylor Swift fans, and hopefully not this time around, but it could happen with the Beyonce ticket sales?

BUDNICK: The principal issue is they kick people out of the system. They clog things up. If you take Live Nation and Ticketmaster at their word, none of these bots were able to buy tickets. Ultimately, people who registered for verified fan were able to do such. That is what was testified to in the Senate. And I guess we'll believe them. However, what happens is the demand on the system ultimately takes it down, it caused system crashes last time. So I think it remains to be seen to what extent Ticketmaster can be ahead of that.

WALKER: We are out of time. Dean Budnick, appreciate you. Thank you very much.

And thank you all for watching. Much more ahead in the next hour of CNN Newsroom.

SANCHEZ: Great to be with you, as always, Amara. Fredricka Whitfield is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)