Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

2,700+ Dead In Turkey, Syria After 7.8 Mag Earthquake; Airspace Off SC Coast Restricted As Navy Collects Balloon Debris; Train Derailment Near Ohio-PA Border Sparks Massive Fire. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 06, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

Right now, there is a desperate search and rescue operation underway across Turkey and Syria after a massive 7.8 magnitude earthquake ripped through the two countries before dawn, followed by a series of powerful aftershocks.

The death toll now tops 2700 and will likely keep rising as crews dig through the rubble. More than 120 aftershocks hit after the earthquake, including one almost as powerful as the initial quake itself.

Buildings crumble to the ground with people fear trapped inside. Others nearby have to run for their lives. Rescuers trying to reach those who are stuck under piles of concrete and debris. Like this little boy in northern Syria. You can just make him out in this video here buried under the wreckage. Thankfully, he was pulled to safety.

Rescuers also pulling this little girl from the debris in another Syrian city. The U.S. and other countries are offering whatever help they can. And President Biden said he has directed his team to provide any and all assistance immediately.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh in Istanbul, Turkey. And, Jomana, search, and rescue teams are being deployed throughout that city. What is the latest? You have been reporting on this all day for us.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, utter devastation stretching across 10 provinces in southern Turkey and across the border in Syria. You've got impacted areas in government- control parts of Syria as well as the very vulnerable areas in northwestern Syria that are under opposition control.

These are parts of the country where you have more than 4 million people who have been displaced by war. People who had nothing, and now they are finding themselves in this situation and they just don't have the resources and the capabilities to deal with this disaster.

We are getting information every few minutes this ductile that is continuing to rise. According to Turkish officials, more than 1600 people confirmed killed in Turkey, more than a thousand also confirmed killed in Syria as well. And you've got the search and rescue operations continuing with thousands of buildings destroyed, damaged, and many, many buildings just completely flattened across this earthquake zone.

It's a very, very complex and really challenging rescue -- search and rescue operation, Bianna. They're facing many challenges right now. Those aftershocks that you mentioned, more than 100 aftershocks reported by Turkish officials, making it very, very difficult for the rescue crews to try and pull people from under the rubble. It is nighttime right now, also another challenge.

And then you've got the weather conditions. There's a severe winter storm that is impacting that part of the country as well as many parts of Turkey as well. And also in Syria, temperatures expected to drop below freezing, and then you've got snow, making it very difficult for these crews to reach a lot of these areas.

Again, we're talking about a massive area that is impacted and they are trying to reach as many of these areas as possible. And then reports of roads blocked in many areas. Absolutely, a devastating situation, Bianna, as well. You know, when you look at the millions of people who live in the earthquake zone both in Syria and Turkey.

People will be outdoor in this kind of weather tonight as authorities are scrambling to set up shelters and awaiting the international response from countries in different organizations, including NATO and the EU that will be supporting Turkey through this disaster, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Just such horrific images to see there, and to know that this happened at four in the morning when so many families were just asleep and seeing the death toll continues to rise, especially those images of the children there, just heartbreaking. Jomana Karadsheh, thank you so much.

Joining me now is Lucy Jones. She's a seismologist studying earthquakes, and the founder and chief scientist at the Dr. Lucy Jones Center. Thank you so much for joining us. So, we know that Turkey sits between fault lines and small tremors do happen quite often there. But were you surprised by the magnitude of this particular earthquake?

[14:05:12]

LUCY JONES, SEISMOLOGIST: No. We know that earthquakes of this size have happened in the past in Turkey and will continue to because we can see the faults that are capable, well, of it. The magnitudes determined by the length of the fault that moves in the event, in this case, about 200 kilometers for the first one and another 100 kilometers for the second one. So, we never know what the time will be but the fact that it was going to happen was essentially a certainty.

GOLODRYGA: We know aftershocks can be just as devastating. And knowing that the second earthquake here came out at 7.5, can we expect more aftershocks? And what impact does this have on search and rescue crews? JONES: Right. Search and rescue crews have to take -- really have to take this extra risk into account. We like to say when you have a lot of earthquakes, you tend to have a lot of earthquakes. And if we've got an active aftershock sequence, which is what we're seeing here, it will continue to be more active.

So, I'm sure they're going to see more magnitude sixes. There's the potential for another seven. There's -- you know, the fault on which this happened is quite long, and it could be continued -- you know, continue to have another earthquake on the next section over.

So, the aftershocks are already dying off. The first day has most of them, the second day will have half the number of the first one, the third day will actually have a third of the number. It's a one-over- time decay. So, it will be getting better but it is a big sequence and will be continuing to be part of the -- will have to be taken into account in the search and rescue.

GOLODRYGA: And you're saying those aftershocks will continue to be felt. I know this was the worst earthquake for Turkey in some 80 years. But the country had some pretty strict building codes put into place some decades ago. Clearly, they weren't up to standards now.

I know an initial Turkish assessment showed that almost 3000 buildings had been destroyed across the affected areas. And that's what we know in just the last 24 hours. How much of the fault lies with the government itself in terms of seismologists giving warnings that this was to come and clearly a lot of these buildings were not up to standard?

JONES: Well, it depends on exactly why the buildings came down not to standard. I mean, building codes are not retroactive. So, if these buildings were built before the current codes came into place, it just doesn't apply. The same thing is true everywhere else in the world, in California as well. We have buildings we know are going to collapse but that doesn't make them disappear.

The question -- I mean, there's -- it could either be that it's too old the building that something in the modern code didn't take something into advance, in which case, we -- the engineers are going to be in there trying to understand that. We need to ignore it.

There's also a possibility that the designs were not followed or the construction was substandard. And that's going to require an investigation to determine why the buildings performed as badly as they did.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. We know Turkeys are a large country. But last year, the Urban and Environment Minister said nearly 7 million homes were at risk of an earthquake. Does that sound normal to you?

JONES: Yes, so -- I mean, that's a -- it's a dense country. They have a lot of earthquake faults. And the big deal -- you know, the big issue is how close are you to how big the earthquake is. So, if you're, you know, 100 miles away, it's just not going to be that bad. But if you're right on top of it is. And it looks like four and a half million people received shaking strong enough to build -- to -- you know, destroy an older building, which is called intensity seven. It's not magnitude but an intensity scale. And four and a half million people were subjected to it just in this one earthquake. So, yes, that's the sort of number. We have -- you know, it's true in every seismic area. We know that old buildings are a problem and it doesn't make them disappear.

GOLODRYGA: Well, this coming as the weather's at in freezing temperatures there and at four in the morning, not giving families much warning at all to leave their homes for safety. Lucy Jones, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

JONES: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, a law enforcement source says pieces of that suspected Chinese spy balloon that the U.S. shut down Saturday have reached the FBI's lab in Quantico, Virginia. The debris field is just off the coast of South Carolina where the airspace is currently restricted today as Navy crews work to recover the fragments. Republicans have been slamming President Biden for not bringing the balloon down sooner, learned about it last Tuesday. Now, the balloon floated across the continental U.S. before fighter planes took it down over the water this weekend.

CNN's Carlos Suarez is in South Carolina tracking the recovery effort, and CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon. Oren, we'll begin with you. I know you've got some breaking developments from a Pentagon briefing that just happened. What more are you learning?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just heard from General Glen Vanherck, the commander of U.S. Northern Command and NORAD. And when he was asked about the previous instances of three balloons that flew over parts of the U.S. during the Trump administration. What he said is there was what he called a domain awareness gap and the U.S. was not able to detect those balloons in real-time at the time.

[14:10:05]

He said that's something the U.S. is working on fixing, but an acknowledgment that there had been previous balloons that were not detected as they transmitted part of the continental United States. In terms of the questions about this most recent balloon, why wasn't it shut down sooner? General Vanherck said there were efforts taken and steps taken to minimize the ability of the Chinese surveillance balloon intelligence and to surveil key sites.

The Pentagon had previously said that it passed over, but now saying that they hadn't -- wasn't able to gather intel on sensitive sites that it's made its mission. And we've talked about this a bit before. The Pentagon able to observe the balloon, it's -- was doing and learn more about the Chinese intelligence gathering efforts.

Meanwhile, China's saying that it reserves the right to do essentially the same thing to any U.S. surveillance balloons or other surveillance balloons that come over their own territory. The Pentagon reacting quite angrily to that statement. I'll read you part of a statement earlier today from Pentagon press secretary Brigadier General Pat Ryder.

He says let's be clear, the PRC surveillance balloon was in U.S. territorial airspace, a violation of our sovereignty. We do not conduct such operations in Chinese airspace, so there is no similar situation.

A blunt, almost angry statement, perhaps from the Pentagon. It is worth noting that the U.S., of course, has spy satellites over China as they are over the rest of the world, which is in line with international law. And the U.S. conduct surveillance flights around China. But those are in international airspace or over international waters so the U.S. pointing to a very clear and legal distinction there between what we're seeing.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, a difference between, I guess, discreet spying, which most countries do as opposed to one that was just this brazen with a balloon flying across the country for the bare eye to see. Oren, thank you. And, Carlos, what do we know about the status of the search and recovery effort right now?

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, that recovery effort is well underway. We are at a boat ramp about 21 miles from the main debris site out here in South Carolina where the Navy has pre- positioned some equipment as well as personnel. We were here last night when teams were coming back in after a good day's work out here.

What's taking place up here about 21 miles north of the main site is they're essentially just having all of this staff and equipment ready to head out if it's necessary. We spotted a couple of members out here wearing the Navy's dive and salvage unit gear. Those are the folks that would be called out to take a look at exactly what kind of debris is at the bottom of the ocean out here, and just how they might be able to free it up.

Now, just earlier this afternoon, we were told that it does seem that the Navy has been able to narrow the field down where this debris is sitting right now. It's about 10 to maybe 15 miles off the coast of South Carolina. And it seems that they've been able to take it from about seven miles in length to a little bit further down.

We're told that right now, the Navy is using one of its ships to scan the bottom of the ocean to get a better sense of just how much equipment is out there. Now, yesterday at this very same location, this is where we were told that some debris was possibly found by the army.

We did reach out to them for confirmation on that after getting a piece of video showing what appeared to be some sort of white material onboard the back of one of their boats. However, we have not heard back, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Carlos Suarez, thank you so much. Joining me now for more on this is William Cohen, who served as Secretary of Defense during the Clinton Administration. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us. So, first, let me get you to respond to the administration's claim that in their view, it was safer to bring this balloon down over the Atlantic as opposed to when it was first detected, we now know early last week over the Aleutian Islands. What is your response to that? How do you interpret that?

WILLIAM COHEN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE UNDER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, I take the Department of Defense at its word on this. Their first sighting of this in terms of analyzing it, they could have shut it down. But as they explained, they thought there would be a potential hazard to people living below. Even though it's sparsely populated, nonetheless, they felt that that presented some danger.

I also felt in my heart that this was also an excuse to be used as a -- as a point to carry out our own intelligence operation against the Chinese. In other words, taking the time, in which, we decided, and this has to be presented to the Congress, we concluded it poses no physical threat to the United States and to its people.

And that we would use that opportunity to analyze what they were doing, and also to penetrate if we could hack into those systems to determine what they were trying to accomplish with a fairly unsophisticated balloon type of vehicle.

[14:15:00]

So, I think we were using it as an opportunity to determine what the Chinese were up to. Were they simply trying to gather communications around those sites --Minuteman sites? Were they trying to determine what the psychological state of affairs on many of the people who go through some pretty trying moments of being on alert all the time for the possible attack on the United States?

There are a lot of things that the Chinese could be trying to determine in terms of the communication between the various intelligence agencies, and whether they could intercept them in the event, of any kind of a war bronco. There's a lot to be determined. And I think the military should be given credit for saying, we looked at this, we determined, it could not pose a threat to us physically.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

CIHEN: And now we want to know what they were up to. And can we prepare for the future? So, I --

GOLODRYGA: Well, we know --

COHEN: -- I give the president -- I give the president great credit, and certainly chairman, Lloyd Austin.

GOLODRYGA: We know that the Gang of Eight will be briefed more on this tomorrow. I'm just curious whether given what you've just said, which sounds like the U.S. had some ways of jamming this balloon when they said that it did not pose a national security threat as it was traveling across the continental United States over some highly sensitive areas, as you know, military base housing ICBMs, what have you, we're not previous that public and even here as journalists, while the information of the Gang of Eight will be.

But given what has transpired over the past week, do you think that the administration could have at least been a bit more transparent as to why they were so confident that it didn't pose a national security threat?

COHEN: I think the administration has to be very transparent with the key members of Congress. There's a so-called Big Eight or big 10. Bring the leadership of the Congress in, brief them as soon as possible, and the longer that is delayed, the more speculation is going to be the more criticism. So, I think the Congress has an absolute right to be briefed on this as quickly as possible.

And I think, from a political point of view, the administration should do so quickly. A moment ago, I mentioned Chairman Austin, (INAUDIBLE) -- in any way, we're doing such great Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, who I have enormous father's respect for.

GOLODRYGA: Well, I -- you know, you mentioned Secretary Austin. And it's interesting because his views clearly are not on the same line with what former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said. And that is what many Republicans have been saying too, and that is that this should have been shot down sooner. I guess, going back to my first question, why do you think it wasn't, and why is Secretary Panetta right -- wrong in this point?

COHEN: I don't know. We just have a difference of opinion on this. I think the important thing was, it wasn't rash, a reasonable for the military to conclude something this large, three school buses long as far as his payload coming down from 60,000 feet, could it have injured any or many individuals below. That's -- if we doubt that, then of course, you can say they should have shot it down earlier.

But my point is, I think it was an opportunity, once we conclude it. And again, they've got to prove this to the satisfaction of Congress, once they concluded it poses no intelligence threat that we couldn't stop or intercept or take advantage of, then I think it made sense to let it go out and then shoot it down so we could recover it.

So, I think a difference of opinion, you may have others who would have a difference -- but I think President Biden has acted responsibly presidentially.

If I could just add a word of expressing my deep sorrow, what's happened in Turkey, and to the people of Syria.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

COHEN: The suffering there is enormous. But I want to add a postscript that we -- our hearts go out. But this is being done to the people of Ukraine every day. They're being shelled just as these buildings came down. They're being shelled every day by Putin, and forced to freeze overnight without heat, electricity, water, and food. So -- GOLODRYGA: That's a daily --

COHEN: -- our hearts go out to the Turkish and the Syrian people, we're going to remember what's going on in Ukraine as well.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, the suffering is immense in all three countries, Syria, Turkey, and, of course, Ukraine. Let me just quickly ask you before we go to respond to what we just heard from that Pentagon briefing, which I guess helps explain why those three other Chinese surveillance balloons that we now know, pass the United States under the Trump administration but hadn't been detected or administration officials weren't aware of them. The U.S. military had a "domain awareness gap" that allowed those balloons to go undetected. How worrisome is that?

COHEN: Well, it is worrisome. A balloon doesn't have a high radar signature, obviously. And no doubt that's one of the reasons that was used. So, they have been used. So, when we find out we've got a gap, then we can fill that gap. But there is an ongoing process. The Chinese and other countries are spying us -- on us 24/seven, in many nefarious ways. From satellites to humans.

[14:20:01]

We're under assault from many countries every day. And that gets into another subject is why we need to devote so much to collecting our own intelligence and then protecting it so we don't leave it lying around in our -- in our homes or --

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

COHEN: -- or garages.

GOLODRYGA: All right, former Defense Secretary William Cohen, thank you for your time.

COHEN: All right. (INAUDIBLE)

GOLODRYGA: A chaotic and unstable situation is playing out right now in Ohio after a train carrying hazardous materials derail there. Evacuation orders are currently underway for residents. What officials plan to do next? That's ahead.

And embattled GOP Congressman George Santos says he one hundred percent denies sexual harassment allegations made by a former perspective staffer. Hear more from Santos. That's up next too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: HAZMAT teams in Ohio are racing to contain a fiery train derailment that's fueling fears of a catastrophic explosion. In about an hour, NTSB will conduct a controlled release of toxic and deadly chemicals that are housed inside canisters that are onboard multiple train cars. People are being ordered to evacuate for their own safety.

[14:25:00] CNN's Gabe Cohen is here with more details about how officials plan to do this. Gabe, what is the latest that you're hearing there?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, this is a massive development coming in this afternoon. We now know that at 3:00 p.m. Eastern, in just over an hour, responders are going to try to do this controlled release from five different unstable rail cars at this crash site in East Palestine.

They're going to blast a small, roughly three-inch hole in the bottom of each of those rail cars to drain any vinyl chloride, that highly flammable chemical out of the cars and into trenches dug below and lined with flares that hopefully will burn off those chemicals.

And they're doing it now to try to prevent that potentially catastrophic explosion that they've been warning about which officials say has become more and more likely because of the intense heat from that fire as it heats up those unstable rail cars which have safety valves that have stopped working preventing the cars from properly draining those chemicals.

But officials are warning this hour that there is still really a serious concern of a massive explosion, what they've been warning about for hours, that possibility is still there. And it's not just an explosion, there could potentially be a release of a lot of chemicals if this plan doesn't go according to plan.

Officials have expanded the evacuation zone to at least two miles in one of the directions with Ohio's Governor Mike DeWine giving this warning at a press conference this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE DEWINE, (R-OH): The new information should up everyone's sense of urgency and their sense of danger. You know, if you listen to the description of your net red zone, you're likely you know very possible death. And if you're in the yellow zone, certainly severe long-term injuries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Now, officials say they have gone door to door to warn people to get out of that evacuation zone. But again, they are still urging people to stay clear they are hoping this 3:30 clearing of these rail cars is going to go according to plan but they are prepared for the worst, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Well, let's hope everybody heeds those warnings from the governor and officials there. Gabe Cohen, keep us posted. Thank you.

Well, House GOP lawmakers are considering a resolution condemning the Biden administration's response to the suspected Chinese spy balloon. We're live on Capitol Hill with more reaction. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)