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Chinese Balloon was Capable of Monitoring U.S. Communications; 17,000-Plus Dead as Search for Survivors Grows More Desperately by the Hour; Zelenskyy Pushes for E.U. Membership During Emotional Speech in Brussels. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 09, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour this Thursday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: and I'm Erica Hill.

We begin this hour with that new reporting about the Chinese surveillance balloon, the State Department is confirming that this device was capable of monitoring U.S. communications. That is likely one of the new details lawmakers are learning this morning. The Biden administration is giving classified briefings on the issue on Capitol Hill a short time ago. We are going to bring you more of what we are learning in just a moment.

We are also closely following what is happening in Europe. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Brussels this morning, where he is calling on the European allies to step up the assistance, talking specifically about what he says they could do to be, in his mind, game-changers.

SCIUTTO: And fresh off of a sales pitch in the battleground state of Wisconsin, President Biden now heading to Florida. He is expected to try to drive home his pledge in particular to protect social security and Medicare. We are going to have more on that message from the White House ahead.

First of all, let's go to National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood who has that new reporting about the State Department's view of technology on the Chinese balloon. What are we learning this morning?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Jim, a senior State Department official providing us with some more details as to the scope of these Chinese surveillance program and the capabilities onboard. So, saying that these balloons have flown over more than 40 countries across five continents gives you just a sense of how vast this global fleet has been.

And there were U-2 Flybys of this balloon that were able to reveal things like there being multiple antennas on board. Those antennas are likely capable of collecting communications and geo-locating those communications. It was also capable of doing signals intelligence collections operations. What that means is gathering information from electronic sources, things like radars or radios, communication devices. That is significant.

Now, we should note that we have been told by officials that the Biden administration took steps to prevent them from collecting really sensitive information by making sure that there weren't unencrypted conversations happening to prevent them from getting all of the communications that were happening in the vicinity of the balloon.

Now, when it is coming to who is responsible for this balloon, they say very clearly, the senior State Department, that this is a Chinese surveillance program by the PRC that was likely conducted by the Chinese military, by the Chinese PLA. These kinds of operations, they say, are often something that the Chinese military is in charge of.

And when it is coming to the manufacturer of this balloon, according to the State Department, the manufacturer of this balloon has a relationship with the Chinese military. It is one of their trusted vendors, so that is pretty significant. Now, they don't name the actual company, but they say that on their website, they have video of past flights that these balloons have done across the United States.

HILL: A really important update. Kylie, I appreciate it. Thank you.

In Turkey and Syria, it is a desperate race against the clock this morning. The rescuers there trying to find the survivors, the window, of course, for finding the people alive in that debris beginning to close. But the hope is still very much alive, and there are reports of really remarkable rescues happening. Just today, a ten-year-old boy who had been buried for 78 hours was pulled alive from the rubble, taken in for treatment.

SCIUTTO: That lucky little boy. The sad fact is these are rarer and rarer stories but so good to see.

Now, for the first time since this earthquake hit on Monday, a U.N. aid convoy has been to cross from turkey to Northwestern Syria, which has also been so badly hit. Of those who survived the quake and the aftershocks, hundreds of thousands are now homeless, many of them facing freezing cold temperatures in devastated areas.

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Just look at those pictures.

CNN International Correspondent Jomana Karadsheh, she is live in the port city of Iskenderun. Jomana, aid finally arriving, they need a lot. I mean, is there any sense it's getting to the places it needs to get to?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Jim, today, as we were driving into the city of Iskenderun, and this part of one Hatay Province, one of the hardest hit parts of the earthquake zone here in Turkey, and just we saw these long queues of cars and trucks that were driving and it was all volunteers, people coming from across the country bringing in aid.

I mean, this is such a massive earthquake zone. There is so much destruction, so many lives completely ruined here, the needs are immense. And as we have heard from the people here telling us, Turkey cannot do this alone. They need help.

And you can imagine what the situation was like across the border in Syria. Of course, I mean, in this city, itself, Jim, everywhere you turn, you find destruction, you find search and rescue sites like this one behind us here, where you will still have the rescue crews working around the clock. You have volunteers, for example, here still trying to locate people who they believe are under the wreckage of these buildings.

But as you mentioned, hope is fading. I mean, we just spoke to a young man, and he was going through the building where his parents were. He doesn't know where his dad is, but he is telling us -- we are going to have to move for a second just, as you can imagine, lots of trucks are moving around in this area helping to carry the debris and moving things around. And he was telling us that he doesn't know what has happened to his dad. And he is telling us that he can see his mom's leg. And right now, all he wants is to give her a dignified end.

I mean, everywhere here, heartbreaking stories and people are absolutely traumatized. I mean, we were to several people and everyone we talk to says this is like a dream. They just don't know, they say, when they are going to wake up from this dream. One man saying we are breathing, but we are not living right now. Jim?

SCIUTTO: To see his mother's legs, I can only imagine. Jomana Karadsheh, thanks so much for bringing us some of those stories.

We will continue to share ways that you at home can help those people here.

This morning in Brussels, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy made a heartfelt appeal to European lawmakers, making his case for more military aid and for membership into the E.U.

SCIUTTO: Following this morning's address, Zelenskyy is meeting one- on-one with leaders to discuss the issue of providing fighter jets to Ukraine. This comes hours after Moscow warned that possible transfers of British fighter jets would only escalate and make things more painful for the Ukrainian people.

Joining us now, former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty. Jill, we hear these warnings from Russia. The reality though for Volodymyr Zelenskyy to make his way to England, right, to the U.K., now he is in Europe, he is meeting with the multiple heads of state, those face-to- face interactions, that is a far different message that's going to come across than even the tailored messages that he did over Zoom in the early days of the war. Do we anticipate it will have a real impact on decisions?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: It would appear that it would. I mean, just the fact that he is really lobbying hard and talking with the heads of these governments, but also the legislatures. And I think it is significant when he started out in the U.K. The U.K. has been kind of like setting the example or the bellwether for tanks, and now, they are training NATO pilots -- sorry, Ukrainians on NATO planes. So, when the U.K. does something, it tends to bring others along, at least it seems to what's happening. And so you can imagine that this could proceed. It could go to providing some type of fighter jets for Ukraine.

And the Russians are very worried about this, obviously, and their threats are increasing that this is going to be very, very bad for Ukraine. But this is what Ukraine feels that it needs for protection, and that is what Zelenskyy is asking for in a very, I think, straight ahead way, and physically being there is a big signal.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, it is a good point you make about the U.K. sometimes dragging other allies reluctantly, right, changing their minds on tanks. We will see if they do the same on jets.

Ukrainian officials have been bracing for some time about a new Russian offensive. And the Institute for the Study of War, using Open Source, says that offensive appears to have begun. How significant do you think this is and should folks be bracing themselves for the second year of this war being perhaps even bloodier than the first?

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DOUGHERTY: I think that definitely. I mean, the destruction so far has been enormous. And the Russians have been bringing in more forces. They have 300,000 people that they brought in through mobilization. They have been training them. There are indications that they are preparing for some type of offensive. And so that is the reason really for the timing of Zelenskyy pushing right now for whatever he can get, because they do feel an offensive is coming.

HILL: You have interviewed a couple of times now the former ambassador to Russia, John Sullivan, specifically about Russia's posture really before the invasion, and even the messages that he brought and how they were received. And so some of that was not entirely shocking to me, but as we look at what that messaging was prior to the invasion, what does that tell us about what it is to come?

DOUGHERTY: I think it was a very interesting interview. I've actually had a couple at least with Ambassador Sullivan. He, remember, was the ambassador from the United States to Russia under Trump and under Biden, and he got back in September. We now have a new ambassador, Lynne Tracy, in place.

But what he was talking about in the very beginning right before the invasion back in February of last year, the United States officials, including Ambassador Sullivan, were meeting with the Russian officials and warning them, saying, look, we can see what you are doing, we know that you are preparing for an invasion. And the Russians would kind of brush it off, and I think the attitude was very interesting. They said, look, we are not the colossus that we used to be during the Soviet Union but we are back. And we are going to do what we want, and basically, as Sullivan used the word, butt out.

SCIUTTO: Well, they followed up on that with the bloodiest war in Europe since 1945, but certainly not to their expectations with success. Jill Dougherty, always good to have you on.

HILL: Still to come this hour, the first account emerging from one of the officers involved in the death of Tyre Nichols, reaction to that affidavit. We'll be joined by a member of the Memphis City Council.

SCIUTTO: Plus, House Republicans are ramping up what they call their weaponization investigation into the FBI and Justice Department, what we are learning from the hearings.

And the latest target of the culture wars, a slew of bills mostly Republican-led states pushing to restrict drag show performances. Two pushing back against -- two people pushing back against those efforts join us to discuss.

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[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: For the first time, we are hearing from one of the now former Memphis Police officers charged with killing Tyre Nichols. In the newly obtained affidavit submitted for a disciplinary hearing, Justin Smith writes that he, quote, immediately called for medical help. He also claims that Nichols was violent and would not comply, and Smith says he used, quote, training and defensive tactics that he learned as an officer. Memphis police, however, say he used unnecessary force, that he failed to provide medical aid even though he, himself, was a certified EMT, and they say he did not turn on his body camera soon enough.

Joining me now is Michalyn Easter-Thomas, she's a member of the Memphis City Council. Good to have you on this morning.

MICHALYN EASTER-THOMAS, MEMPHIS CITY COUNCIL: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So, first, I wonder hearing the contents of that officer's affidavit, and what is your reaction to his story?

EASTER-THOMAS: It really sums up, Jim, what we discussed on Tuesday at council, this balance between what is learned as protocol and policy and training versus a negative and pervasive culture that maybe, and we've seen, is definitely present in one sector of the Memphis Police Department, and we don't know if it is present in others as well.

SCIUTTO: So, you are saying it is culture, not training. How do you break that culture?

EASTER-THOMAS: I think that that it going to take time and intentional policy shifts and change. For one, we have to build back the trust. We see a widening gap between -- as well as our police and our first responders. So, we have to make sure as policy changers and legislators that we're implementing policy that goes directly with training, it goes directly with overview and oversight and audits, and that we know that when we are recruiting members, that we are asking them to follow in the line of protect and serve. And if they do see that type of culture present in training to definitely stray away from it and to let us know.

SCIUTTO: The Memphis police chief, as you know, dissolved the SCORPION unit, the special anti-crime elite, as it's called, anti- crime unit that these officers were involved in, but there are at least 30 officers from that unit reassigned to other jobs. Does simply shuffling people around solve that culture problem?

EASTER-THOMAS: Not at all. And when we got that information, we were outright disgusted at council. And so that goes back and forth to the auditing and the oversight and the overview and to really putting publicly that data transparency to let us know who are the officers that are being charged but also who are also those other officers within that unit.

SCIUTTO: The president during his state of the union said, quote, let's come together and complete the job on police reform.

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As you know, there was an effort following the death of George Floyd, but that fizzled. Do you see national legislation as essential to addressing the problems like we see not only or saw not only in your community in Memphis but in so many other communities in this country?

EASTER-THOMAS: I would hope that we would see national legislation. We need a large strong arm to help support the local legislatures. We look to our national senators and our representatives to help us to get that done and to support us on the local playing field.

SCIUTTO: And what specifically do you want to see in that legislation? I mean, among the things there, ban on the choke holds, but also this discussion of rescinding qualified immunity, which limits people's ability to sue the police department or officers in the event of undue use force. What's essential? What has got to be in the national piece of legislation, in your view?

EASTER-THOMAS: Well, that is one part of it, the immunity. We have legislation locally that talked about the ability or the inability to give promotions and also to be terminated, but it can also be reversed if you are looking at civil service immunity within the state. So, we need to look at that on a broad scope in order for that to be limited for those individuals who have won against that duty to protect and serve. We need to make sure that we have strong wording in there so that it cannot be preempted by certain state laws and loopholes, so that we can really protect everyone nationally in our communities and neighborhood.

SCIUTTO: Before you go with, CNN, myself, covered so many instances like this and so many communities around the country. One change that we have noticed, and I am not the only one to mention this, is that sometimes the law, the courts, the police departments are reacting more quickly now. Do you see some hope in how Memphis responded to this case, the death of Tyre Nichols?

EASTER-THOMAS: I do see hope in that response, but let's definitely not forget the activists and the reformers that are calling for that quick and swift response. So, I would do with no benefit to say that if we didn't have those individuals pushing for the truth, pushing for transparency, pushing us as local legislators, we may -- information as quickly.

SCIUTTO: Well, Councilwoman Michalyn Easter-Thomas, we know you are busy, so thanks for taking the time this morning.

EASTER-THOMAS: Thank you for having me.

HILL: Still to come here, President Biden is taking that state of the union message on the road. We will take a look at who he is hoping to reach with this latest blitz. We will hear from him in a couple of minutes.

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HILL: Right now, President Joe Biden making his way to Florida where he will tout his administration's wins as he preparing to launch his likely re-election campaign.

SCIUTTO: Yes. That announcement does seem to be coming. The president dismissed concerns about his age. Here is what he told PBS Newshour when asked if it worries him that he would be almost 82 by the next election.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Watch me. That is all I can say.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like you are running.

BIDEN: I haven't made that decision. It's my intention, I think, but I haven't made that decision firmly yet.

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SCIUTTO: That is my intention, I think, he said.

CNN's M.J. Lee is at the White House. M.J., what more do we expect to hear from the president today because this sound very much like campaign messages?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. First of all, every expectation is that President Biden will make a re-election announcement in the coming weeks. Everybody around the president is operating as such, and to that end, we are seeing him continuing this post-state of the union travel blitz that he and others in the administration are engaging in the coming days. He will head down to Florida to talk mostly, really focusing on the issues of social security and Medicare. And we have seen in the last week or so how much this has become such a lightning rod political issue. Of course, during the state of the union address when he accused some Republicans of wanting to make cuts to those programs, we saw how rowdy the House chamber got with some Republican members calling him a liar and really heckling him. So, this is an issue where the White House clearly believes they are striking a nerve with Republican members.

And just the choice for the president to go to Florida this afternoon, that is also very much intentional. This is where they think their messaging on this can really land given in part that there are obviously many seniors that live in the state, and it is also the home state to Republican Senator Rick Scott, who has really become one of the favorite foes for this White House, in large part because of this proposal he has made, where every federal legislation would sunset after five years unless Congress were to reapprove it.

He was on our air this morning. We obviously saw him struggle to respond to that criticism, saying that cuts to those programs is not what he wants. But President Biden is not really listening to that. He is sort of pushing back continuously and relentlessly going after not only Rick Scott but also other Republicans. And we know that this is going to be a part of the bigger messaging going into 2024 as they try to continue drawing that contrast between Democrats and Republicans, guys.

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SCIUTTO: M.J. Lee, thanks so much.