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FBI Searching Pence's Indiana Home For Classified Documents; Miracle Rescues 100+ Hours After Quake First Hit, Killing 23,000+; White House Press Briefing. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 10, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN Newsroom.

The Department of Justice wants to know what former Vice President Mike Pence knows and potentially what he has. Right now, FBI agents are searching his home in Indiana. Remember back in January, a Pence attorney discovered about a dozen classified documents at the former VP's home. And just yesterday, the special counsel subpoenaed Pence. Jack Smith's office wants to hand -- him to hand over documents and testify under oath about interactions he had with Trump leading up to the 2020 election, and the attack on the Capitol.

CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us now. Evan, let's start with what you know about this search at Pence's home.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, this was a search that the former vice president and his legal team consented to. This is something that the Justice Department, and that the FBI, and the Pence team had been working on for several -- for a couple of weeks, at least. And today is finally the day.

You see there, the pictures of the state police blocking off the driveway, and they're doing a search there trying to find -- trying to see whether there were any more classified documents. For the Pence team, they want to try to get this over with. They are hoping that at the end of this, after this search, that there are no more documents found. We, by the way, also expect that there's going to be another search of his office, a think tank office that he has here in Washington, right across the street from the FBI building in downtown Washington.

And if at the end of this, there are no more documents found, they hope that the FBI can wrap up this investigation without launching a full-blown investigation, without going to a special counsel. That's something that they're hoping to avoid because as you know, Victor, the former vice president has some political aspirations. He wants to go to Iowa. He wants to start at least beginning the conversation about a possible presidential run.

BLACKWELL: Sure, sure. Tell me what you know about this subpoena from the Special Counsel, Jack Smith.

PEREZ: Well, this is -- you know, it's absolutely a historical milestone that the special counsel is taking. The Justice Department certainly doesn't do this very often. But the vice president is -- the former vice president is an important witness in everything that happened in the lead up to the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, everything from his meetings in December of 2020, where he laid out and talk to Trump about Trump's plans to challenge the elections, as well as some important meetings -- key meetings in a January of 2021, where they talked about this plan of theirs to try to have Pence put aside the election results and to try to impede essentially the transfer of power. Those are things that are at the center of this investigation.

And we know, Victor, that there have been negotiations back and forth between the Pence legal team and the Justice Department as to how to do this. A key part of this is the fact that Mike Pence published a book in November where he talked a lot about these things. So, now obviously the Justice Department wants him to talk about this and possibly more, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Evan Perez for us there in Washington, thank you very much.

Elie Honig is a CNN's senior legal analyst, former federal prosecutor. Elie, let's start with the search. If there is no additional classified document found in the search, or let's say at the office in Washington that that search will be coming soon, do you think the special counsel is necessary for the dozen documents that were discovered by Pence's attorneys?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No, Victor. I think if this, in fact, turns up no further classified documents, then we will not see a special counsel. You really need two things if you're the Justice Department, the Attorney General in order to appoint a special counsel. You need some kernel of evidence, some reason to believe there might eventually be proof of a crime. And you need what we call extraordinary circumstances which would be a conflict of interest.

If there's no evidence that Pence had any classified documents other than the ones he turned over, if he's not a declared candidate for office, I don't see either of those things. And I think this could be the end of it if there are no further documents found.

BLACKWELL: OK. So, this subpoena for the vice president from Jack Smith, a special counsel, there are obviously political considerations here. We'll talk about those with the political folks later. But legally, what are the options for the vice president as he decides how to respond?

HONIG: So, Vice President Mike Pence has really three options here. First of all, he can comply, he can go in and testify in front of a grand jury under oath. Second of all, they've been negotiating up to this point, but you can continue negotiating. Sometimes the actual service of a subpoena will spur those negotiations along. It's actually not at all unprecedented.

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We saw Bill Clinton negotiated with Ken Starr for his testimony, and we saw Donald Trump negotiate for Robert Mueller. They agreed to written testimony. So, we could see ongoing negotiations.

The third path here is we could see a legal challenge. Now, it's important to note. That could come from Mike Pence, who says I don't want to testify as to certain things from executive privilege. That also could come from Donald Trump as an outside third party saying basically, I was the president, I am the holder of executive privilege, and I want to block Mike Pence's testimony. If we see that kind of legal challenge, Victor, I think the law here, the president favors the prosecutors, there's a balancing that'll have to be done by the courts but that certainly will take time.

BLACKWELL: So, Evan mentioned the book that the vice president wrote was released just before the midterms. How much does the publication of that book and the discussion of the conversations in what happened around the election, the attack on the Capitol influence what happens next?

HONIG: Well, that's going to be an important factor, if there's a legal fight over executive privilege. Prosecutors are going to argue what we call waiver. They're going to say, he's already talked about this publicly, Your Honor. And therefore, he's given up the right to keep it secret. Even if what he said was only sort of partial, even if he doesn't tell the entire conversation, that can be construed as a waiver. So, if you're Mike Pence, once you've come out and started discussing these things publicly, then there's an argument that you've given it away.

Now, Donald Trump may have an actual interesting counterargument of he doesn't control the privilege, that's my privilege, I'm the former president, so maybe he did whatever he did, but that shouldn't be held against me. So, that'll be an interesting and really sort of unprecedented issue for the courts.

BLACKWELL: One more, and this is on another subpoena. This is for Robert O'Brien, Trump's former national security adviser who has been subpoenaed not only in the investigation surrounding January 6, but also the documents discovered at Mar-a-Lago. How much could he offer to the documents' investigation?

HONIG: So, this was really interesting. He really has the same options that we just discussed with Mike Pence. He can testify, he can try to negotiate, or he can fight it in the courts. But it did catch my attention that the former national security adviser had been subpoenaed in the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation.

I mean, I suppose prosecutors want to know, what do you know about these actual documents? What do you know about how they got to Mar-a- Lago? Was this run past you? Did you approve of this?

And I think his answers could be really interesting there, whether he did or didn't know about it, whether he blessed it, whether he believes there's a security risk posed by these documents being at Mar-a-Lago. So, I think that's where prosecutors are looking with him.

BLACKWELL: All right. Elie Honig, always good to have you. Have a good weekend. Thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Victor. All right.

BLACKWELL: So, the number of those killed in Turkey and Syria continues to climb. Now, it is the deadliest earthquake in at least a decade, more than 23,000 people have died from that 7.8 magnitude quake on Monday. More than 80,000 are hurt.

In Turkey, the president said about 141,000 rescuers are there on the scenes, ten provinces they're working there, all of which have declared states of emergency. The World Health Organization estimates 23 million people are impacted by this catastrophe. And the U.S. has pledged $85 million in aid with dozens of nations offering to help as well.

Still, more than one hundred hours later, there are miracles often involving the tiniest victims. Now, this is a warning that the video you're about to see is graphic. Anderson Cooper takes us to the frontline for rescue workers there in Syria.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Feet away, they move the woman's arm and find a toddler named Hamuda, (PH) she was protecting. His eyes closed, no sign of life. They picked away the concrete but then --

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COOPER: -- the cry of life.

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BLACKWELL: Wow. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is in Istanbul, where a massive operation is happening now at an aid distribution center. So, tell us what you know about the rescues that we're seeing that so far outside of what's called this golden window that is still happening.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's incredible, isn't it? What a feat of humanity. And those many, many rescue workers on the ground fanned out across that earthquake zones still digging through the rubble of these homes, working almost without sleep without rash because every time they begin to hear the sound of life, as you said, they have to work tirelessly. And we have a couple of stories to bring you with some video to show you.

I think the one that's really playing out here today in Turkey is the story of two sisters -- two teenage sisters who were trapped into the rubble of their homes. They were rescued around the one-hundredth hour if you can believe it, of this crisis. One of them, Ayfer, was -- after a 10-hour ordeal pulled out. Rescue workers were trying to keep her spirits up that whole period, asked her what she wanted to eat. She said she want an ice cream. They're asking her what flavor. They're playing music for her. Eventually, she was pulled out safely. Her sister as well shortly afterwards.

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We also saw the story of a family of six, all pulled out alive. parents and four children. There are images on that we can play you there of one of the sons just standing by, crying in disbelief that his family, his whole life is intact, that his loved ones are OK. But, Victor, these stories of survival, unfortunately, are rare. They are far and few in between. Overwhelmingly, what we are seeing on the ground is anguish. It's actually recovery operations.

Families just huddled in the fold now entering the fifth day for days waiting, waiting to pull out the bodies of their loved ones so that they can bury them. This staggering death toll, 22,000, it's so mind- boggling. It's difficult to fathom and it keeps rising as they pull these bodies out from the rubble, entire family's gone but it's aid -- help that is also needed on the ground. That's the warning from authorities.

They're saying there are fears of a second crisis, a second disaster, and that is unfolding right now. You have to think of the hundreds of thousands of homeless people who have absolutely nothing. And its volunteers, like the ones around me here, are packing boxes as quickly as they can with basics, with food, warm blankets, everything they can that are filling that gap on the ground.

There's been a great deal of criticism towards President Erdogan for risk -- his response, did he act quickly enough? Were buildings built up to code? Could lives have been saved? He's been dogged by these questions.

He's promising to pay the rent for one year for any survivors, promising to get housing but look, how can't come soon enough? Lives are on the line. Children are sleeping cold on the streets tonight in that earthquake zone.

BLACKWELL: Salma Abdelaziz, thank you for the reporting.

Joining me now is Gonul Tol. She is the founding director of the Turkey program at the Middle East Institute. Her book, Erdogan's War: A Strongman's Struggle At Home And In Syria, came out last fall.

I want to talk about the response in just a moment. But first, I want to talk about your family. You were actually in Turkey at the time of the earthquake. Are you OK? Tell us what that was like.

GONUL TOL, LOST FAMILY MEMBERS IN EARTHQUAKE: Well, I am OK, thank you. I was a few hour-drive from Hatay, which is one of the worst few carriers in the country with my family. We had cracks in the building that we were staying in. But we received a phone call from my sister's husband who was in Hatay at the time, saying that the city had been leveled to the ground and his entire family had been trapped under the rubble.

BLACKWELL: And I read that he'd actually initially found his father, who was alive at the time, right?

TOL: That's right. So, he went to his childhood home and the building had been -- had collapsed, but he dug his father out of the rubble with his bare hands. But his legs were stuck under a large concrete block. And he waited and waited and waited for hours, 48 hours before the rescue workers showed up, only to tell him that he had -- that he had -- they had received instructions to focus somewhere else. And that's why he lost his loved ones and so did the thousands of people there.

BLACKWELL: Yes. I mean, I've been wondering, as we watched the video of people searching, trying to find people, the tens of thousands, who were injured, where do they go with the thousands, literally thousands of buildings in Turkey alone, that are heavily damaged, or collapsed? And you -- I've read, you're angry. You're disappointed by the response. What -- would you like to see that you are not?

TOL: Well, help didn't come on time. This is not the first earthquake tragedy that the country has witnessed. We had another major earthquake in 1999. And at the time, I was part of a student organization that went to the earthquake area to help the victims. And what I saw there was completely different from what I saw in Hatay.

In 1999, there were organizations, volunteers, the Turkish military had been dispatched fairly quickly. And there were civil society organizations aid agencies, rescue workers all on the ground, helping the victims and helping efforts -- the search and rescue efforts. In Hatay, on the other hand, it took 48 hours for rescue workers to show up. So, the response was not fast enough. And I think it's part of a larger problem with Erdogan's Turkey.

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BLACKWELL: Do you believe that that is a domestic problem, not a global community reaction problem?

TOL: No, not at all. It's -- I think it's mostly the corruption and misrule in the country that made Monday's earthquake far deadlier. So, Erdogan basically hollowed out institutions in his 20 years at the helm. He wiped out civil society organizations. But most importantly, he granted government infrastructure projects to these construction companies that have little regard for safety regulations and building codes.

BLACKWELL: All right. Gonul Tol, our condolences to your family considering all the loss of life and the struggle that undoubtedly, will be ahead. Thank you so much. Well, for more information how you can help the victims of the earthquake, go to cnn.com/impact.

All right, let's go to the White House now. John Kirby is speaking there about the president's plans as it relates to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NSC: States in a region that is also a critically important region and an ally as we work together to address common challenges throughout the world, quite frankly, not just in this part of it. The president has personal experience working with President Lula from his time as vice president, and he met several times and I've had multiple calls. And we -- of course, as you know, we've already held a number of high- level engagements since President Lula's election.

President Biden called President Lula shortly after he was elected to congratulate him and began identifying areas where the two countries could work together. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan traveled to Brazil for meetings with then-President-elect Lula and members of his incoming administration. And Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland led a presidential delegation to Brazil for the inauguration.

And, of course, following the January 8 attack on Brazil's democracy, President Biden was quick to call President Lula to convey the United States' unwavering support for democracy in Brazil. The two have had or they will have a packed agenda here today, discussing issues that are important to both of them, and as I said, to the region and to the world. That includes combating climate change, stimulating economic development, strengthening democracy, promoting human rights, and inclusion, as well as managing irregular migration. This meeting between the two leaders will strengthen the relationship between the United States and Brazil and will help set the stage for upcoming high-level engagements between the two countries.

One more note before we jump into questions, and this is a -- just an update on U.S. efforts to respond and to help provide assistance to the people of Turkey and Syria in the wake of those devastating earthquakes. We are ramping up our assistance to these earthquakes that have now killed more than 20,000 people in Turkey in Syria, including that we know of, at least eight American citizens. Now, this is a terrible tragedy, obviously, and our hearts continue to go out to all those impacted. We remain in close contact with our Turkish allies at every level of government, including, of course, a phone call between President Biden and President Erdogan.

Yesterday, we announced that the United States will provide $85 million in life-saving assistance to provide shelter to the displaced as well as food medicine, and other desperately needed aid. In Turkey, a USAID disaster assistance and response team is already on the ground. And two of our most highly trained urban search and rescue teams are conducting operations in support of Turkish rescue efforts in Adiyaman, one of the hardest hits -- hardest hit areas inside the country.

These teams have nearly 200 personnel combined between them, specialized equipment, and canine support dogs as well. They have been able to expand their operational reach with the support of U.S. military Blackhawk helicopters. And because of the extensive damage to roads and the bridges, ground Tarrant transportation, I think you can understand this is pretty challenging.

They will continue to run airlift operations from Incirlik, transporting rescue personnel to sites that they are most needed to conduct operations. The dark teams as we call them are also conducting structural damage assessments of many buildings and infrastructure. To date, they have been able to recover more than 630 sites across Adiyaman.

In Syria, our humanitarian partners continue to urgently scale up response efforts to reach people in need. That work will include or has included chartering flights that are transporting essential medical supplies and teams distributing hot meals and other food.

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As of this morning, the United Nations and -- the United Nations and its partners successfully completed its second cross-border humanitarian convoy into northwest Syria. And one of our humanitarian partners delivered 14 additional truckloads of supplies through the Bab al-Hawa Crossing, totaling now 20 trucks of critical medicines, food, and water to people in need over the last two days. To underscore that U.S. sanctions will not prevent or inhibit prohibiting humanitarian assistance in Syria, yesterday, the Department of Treasury, I think you saw issued a broad general license to provide additional authorizations for disaster relief assistance to the Syrian people.

We already were able to deliver humanitarian assistance without this general license but we wanted to underscore the importance of humanitarian aid getting in. So, the Treasury went ahead and issued this license as well. This license will be in effect for six months. U.S. humanitarian assistance is delivered directly to the Syrian people, no matter where they live. And we are determined to do all that we can to help those affected by these earthquakes in the days, weeks, and months ahead, as required.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why the president decided to go to Poland, the welcome message he wants to deliver? And is there any chance that he would visit Ukraine during his visit to Poland? And I have also one on President Lula's visit. President Lula has said he wanted to create a group of countries including China and Egypt to mediate peace between Ukraine and Russia. Does the president support this effort? Is this the right time for opening negotiations?

KIRBY: He has a lot there. So, look, on the -- on the -- on the trip, I don't have any other additional stops to speak to. Karine announced the purpose of the trip, and that's to go to Poland. And in Karine's opening statement, I think she answered your main question, which is what does he want to talk about? He wants to talk about the importance of the international community's resolve and unity in supporting Ukraine for now going on a year.

Wouldn't it be great if the president didn't have to make a trip around a one-year anniversary of a war that never should have started? Sadly, that's where we are. And he wants to make sure that he's sending that strong message not only of the United States resolved, but the international community to resolve.

And to make clear to the Ukrainian people, most particularly, that the United States is going to continue to stand by them going forward. We know the next weeks and months are going to be difficult and critical, especially for their armed forces. And the United States is going to continue to stand by them.

On your question about President Duda and his peace overtures or ideas, is that what you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Lula.

KIRBY: Oh, Lula. I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, yes. He said that he wants to create a group of countries to negotiate peace in Ukraine. And those groups, according to him, would include China, India, and maybe some other countries.

KIRBY: Well, I certainly would refer to President Lula to speak to his ideas. I think, in the -- in the aggregate, we all would like to see this war end today. We'd like to see it end right now, in other words, without having to go to the negotiating table. That doesn't appear to be in the offing, as Mr. Putin just over the last 24 hours, flew dozens more cruise missiles into civilian targets into Ukraine, knocking out heat and power across the country.

So, absent that, we're going to have to stay on the task of supporting Ukraine so that they can succeed at the battlefield. So that, if and when President Zelenskyy has determined it's time to negotiate and sit down at the table to solve this diplomatically, he can do it with the wind at his back. He can do it with the strength that he -- that he knows he's going to need in that negotiation. So, it's really up to President Zelenskyy to determine if and when negotiations are appropriate and certainly under what circumstances. As President Biden has said countless times, nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Can we expect the president to make any kind of formal announcement on as it pertains to maybe additional security aid, or will it mostly be sort of a symbolic show of support, as you were talking about to the Ukrainian people, the U.S.-Polish alliance?

KIRBY: I want to get ahead of the president's remarks. Certainly, I'm not going to do that. Again, the president will make it very clear that the United States will continue to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes. He will continue to call for the kind of international unity that we've seen not just across NATO but across the world -- or not just across Europe. And I think he will certainly make clear that additional security assistance, additional financial assistance, additional help for Ukraine will be coming from the United States. But I won't get ahead of anything specific.

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LEE: And I have a quick follow-up on the Chinese spy balloon. This idea that President Xi Jinping may not have been aware of the order to send this balloon over U.S. soil, what would that tell you if that were true about his grip on his own government? Is it -- you know, is it possible that it's suggested that kind of power breakdown? Does it surprising to the U.S.?

KIRBY: We certainly can't confirm these reports about President Xi's personal knowledge of that, and I would refer you to the PRC to speak to their own leadership issues and information sharing. What matters to us is that this was a violation of our sovereign airspace and clearly with intent.

Now, whose intent? I don't think we have a perfect picture of that right now. Clearly, without question, the intent of the PRC. Because we know that this balloon belongs to them. And President Biden acted decisively in support of our national sovereignty.

LEE: Well, there are reporting in is that U.S. officials briefing lawmakers this week, told lawmakers that this is the U.S. intelligence community's assessment, right?

KIRBY: I'm not going to speak to intelligence assessments from the podium.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got to -- we had to go. Go ahead, Jonathan.

JONATHAN LEMIRE, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Thank you, Karine. Admiral, there's been warnings from the Ukrainians as well as intelligence agencies in both Europe and in here, that at the one-year mark of war approaches, that might be moment where Putin tries to really escalate the conflict, maybe even launch some sort of major new offensive. Are you seeing any signs of that being in the works?

KIRBY: What we see, Jonathan, is that the Russians continue to conduct offensive operations in the Donbass area, the fighting around Bakhmut remains pretty vicious. Even as you and I are talking clearly, as we've seen over the last 12 hours, he's willing to continue to barrage the country with cruise missiles, knocking out civilian infrastructure and trying to make life more difficult for the Ukrainian people. And we do believe that he will try to take advantage of these winter months to restock, resupply, rearm, contribute to his manpower in what could be offensive -- renewed offensive operations come spring.

But have we seen all that take shape now? I don't believe we're at a point where we've seen all of that really form. But we're anticipating that. And frankly, so are the Ukrainians. And that's one of the reasons why you've seen in just recent weeks, the kinds of security assistance packages from the United States and from others that are more advanced capabilities. The kinds of capabilities that will allow them to fight in open terrain, combined arms capabilities, armored capabilities, artillery, all of that is designed to help them prepare for whatever the Russians might be planning in the spring. All that's to say we do expect that again, as the weather improves, the fighting will probably get more vicious.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Karine. Hi, John. I have more follow- ups on the Lula visit as well as the assistance the U.S. providing to Turkey. But really briefly, can you speak to rumors that there is another Chinese balloon above Alaska or any other parts of U.S. territory that the U.S. shut down?

KIRBY: So, I can confirm that the Department of Defense was tracking a high-altitude object over Alaska airspace in the last 24 hours. Out -- the object was flying at an altitude of 40,000 feet and pose a reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight. Out of an abundance of caution at the recommendation of the Pentagon, President Biden ordered the military to down the object. And they did. And it caved in inside our territorial waters. Those waters right now are frozen. But inside territorial airspace and over territorial waters. Fighter aircraft assigned to U.S. Northern Command took down the object within the last hour. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I just follow up, John? And thank you for that. That's really helpful. Can you give more details on the support that the U.S. is providing to Turkey specifically, we understand that the USS George H.W. Bush is on standby. Can you update us on whether there's been any communications with Ankara on whether the ship will be any part of humanitarian efforts?

KIRBY: I think I updated as much as I could right now. What we're doing is what I put in my opening statement. You're right that there are naval assets that are in the Mediterranean and under the command of U.S. Naval Forces Europe. The commander of U.S. European Command has designated the commander of U.S. Naval Forces Europe as in charge of the operational coordination for military assets, and there -- and he's doing that.

I cannot speak to any specific contributions by the aircraft carrier USS George W. Bush -- George H.W. Bush. But obviously there's lots of opera -- there's lots of capabilities in the Mediterranean region that could be brought to bear. But we're working -- and this is a really important point.