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Military Shoots Down Three Unidentified Objects; Hope Dim of Finding Survivors in Turkey and Syria; Trump Lawyer Says Searches are Complete. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 13, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:38]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good morning to you this Monday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

So, this morning, President Biden is facing pressure to respond after the U.S. military shot down three unidentified airborne objects in just three days. Right now, U.S. officials are working to recover the remnants of those objects. So far, no indication as to whether they have any connection to China's suspected surveillance balloon.

SCIUTTO: Yes, a lot of open questions. While the Pentagon says there was no military threat, but despite that national security officials across North America, they're on alert. Certainly more alert than they were a few weeks ago. This morning, the Biden administration is firing back after China is now accusing the U.S. of illegally flying high- altitude balloons into Chinese air space. More than ten times, they say, in the last year. All as officials in a northeast Chinese province claimed they were preparing to shoot down an unidentified flying object as well this weekend.

For more on the trio of objects shot down by U.S. fighter jets over the weekend, let's begin with CNN Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann, also CNN senior White House correspondent MJ Lee.

But first to you, Oren.

Can you tell us what we're learning about the new objects shot down this weekend and what exactly -- or at least how much of a threat the Pentagon believes them to be?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So to recap, there was one object shot down over Alaska on Friday, one over Canada Saturday, northwest Alaska, and then the one over Lake Huron pretty much right before the Super Bowl. The problem is the Pentagon hasn't really put out a description of what we're looking at or what these are, simply describing them as objects. They are very small in size and the Pentagon has said they don't believe they posed any military threat, but because of that their altitude, between 20,000 and 40,000 feet, they were roughly where commercial air space flies so they were viewed as a hazard to civil aviation, and for that reason were taken down. There are recovery efforts in all three cases, but crucially the

objects have not yet been discovered, so we haven't gotten a better description of what it is the Pentagon is looking at or what the additional concerns may be.

Adding to the confusion, we've heard from a few U.S. officials, including Jake Sullivan, describing these as "balloons," but the Pentagon won't quite go that far in saying that these are balloons. Last night a Pentagon official did say that there are a number of other entities, such as companies or research organizations that launch objects into the atmosphere, into the skies, suggesting perhaps that's the explanation here. But they haven't come in on one explanation and said, this is what's responsible. They have said that they're very different, not only in size, but apparently in terms of capabilities as well, from the Chinese surveillance balloon that was shot down off the coast of South Carolina about a week and a half ago. So, we do know that much.

But a further description, still very much wanting in this case, especially because these were objects shot down in U.S. air space, and that's a key point here.

Now, also adding to the confusion, and broadening out this story, is the accusation now coming from China that there were objects in Chinese air space. That got a forceful reaction from the Pentagon, which said the U.S. doesn't have a surveillance balloon program, that's China that has that program.

Erica and Jim.

HILL: Ah, yes, the back and forth will continue.

So, MJ, as we look at all this, President Biden is facing intense pressure this morning because he has been so quiet about all of this over the weekend. What are you hearing from the administration? Any plans for a more public discussion or statement from the president?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Not as of right now, Erica, but you're absolutely right that it was pretty remarkable that over the weekend we didn't hear the president engage on this issue once. You know, the fact that there were three downed objects at his direction by the U.S. military in as many days and nothing yet from the president is pretty notable.

We've, of course, heard from Pentagon officials, NSC officials and others after each incident to sort of share information and share information about what they can say, but that's been pretty limited so far, right? And what the American people have not gotten so far is sort of a comprehensive address, an explanation coming directly from the president on what they should make of all of this. Should people be concerned? Is there reason for serious concern?

One Democratic congressman I was talking to just last night said the silence just strikes him as odd given that there are people across the country who are genuinely freaked out by these headlines that they are seeing, but there's no indication at least as of this morning from the White House that the president will be giving remarks or speaking to this.

[09:05:02]

So, we'll see if the fact that his public schedule is empty right now, if that changes over the course of the day.

But, you know, one likely explanation for why he hasn't spoken yet about this again in the comprehensive way is that U.S. officials very much are still trying to figure out what these objects are, where do they originate from, do they give us reason for concern? And there is a sense at the White House and among people close to the president that sort of making him speak about this issue and get behind the podium and address the public at a moment when he clearly doesn't have a full picture, that there are political risks to that, that he may be speaking about something that he doesn't quite fully understand and that U.S. officials don't quite fully understand.

But I think all of this goes to show why the recovery effort that is underway of the various debris and the objects that have now fallen, why there is such urgency there as U.S. officials try to gather as much information as possible, analyze the situation so that hopefully in the coming days the White House can give a better explanation for what exactly is going on here.

SCIUTTO: MJ Lee at the White House, Oren Liebermann, thanks so much to both of you.

Joining us now to digest, CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark, former NATO supreme allied commander.

General, good to have you on this morning.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thanks, Jim.

So, first I wonder if I could get your view. NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg said this morning that China and Russia have been increasing use of balloons and other intel gathering aircraft in this space here, near space or somewhere between 30,000, 60,000 feet.

In your view, is that a new and major threat in terms of intelligence gathering?

CLARK: Well, I think it may fill in some gaps that the Chinese and Russians don't have covered in their own satellites surveillance programs. So, insofar as its collecting information that would be used in targeting against us or exploring our own research and -- with a low level electronic warfare and things like this, yes, it's a threat, and we don't appreciate it, don't want it and they don't have the right to violate U.S. air space.

HILL: So, what's your level of concern this morning, General?

CLARK: You know, I -- right now what we really need to do, Erica, is just unpack everything that's happened. We're certain that the first balloon that was shot down off the South Carolina coast was a satellite -- was a balloon for reconnaissance. Got signals coming off of it, got pictures of it, watched it, watched its trajectory. OK, we're going to get the pieces of it. We'll assemble it. Maybe there was a self-destruct mechanism in it so some of them maybe burned in addition to whatever damage the sea water does to it.

The other three objects, they don't seem to be -- have the same signature. Could they be reconnaissance? Sure. Could they be from Russia instead of China? Sure. Could it be from North Korea? Of course. Could it be some misguided effort by some fishing fleet trying to look for salmon off the coast of Alaska and it got disoriented by the wind? You know, we need to really get to the bottom of it. So, there's - we don't -- you know, first reports are almost always wrong.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CLARK: So, let's give the president and his team time to really get into this before they start making announcements.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you then, in that fact-finding space that we're in now, is shooting them all down the right response because you do have genuine risk of escalation. Now you have China threatening to shoot down what it says is a U.S. balloon near its space, but I think -- my mind goes to U.S. uncrewed drones flying around China, but then, of course, crewed surveillance aircraft as well. I mean there's a risk of escalation.

CLARK: There is. But the first balloon -- the second balloon, the one that came over Alaska -- from Alaska, was shot down over Yukon, that has a threatening trajectory. I don't know how the balloon over -- the second balloon that was shot down on -- this weekend or the one yesterday, how they got there, but they were in civilian air space and so they are hazards. No one has spoken up, that I know of. We haven't heard some research foundation from California say, oh, no, no, this is the next thing for satellite broadcast of internet, so please don't shoot it down. No one's taken credit for it from the United States.

So, I think, you know, it's a -- it was a hazard to aircraft and let's see what the facts show. Maybe when people wake up on Monday and they - and they look at their reports from their balloons over the weekend, they'll discover that this balloon's not reporting, they'll call the Pentagon and they'll acknowledge they did something that was a hazard to civil aviation. But I'd say the odds are it's probably hostile activity.

HILL: So, you believe it's probably hostile. The assistant secretary of defense of -- for DHS, on Sunday said, the reality here, too, is that they've increased surveillance on the heels of that Chinese surveillance balloon, and that's part of what's leading to seeing more activity, more things being shot down.

[09:10:09]

Do you believe it's that simple? Is that the explanation?

CLARK: Well, I think, you know, when you're looking at the sky, if you're looking for something you're more likely to see it.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CLARK: And so we've been tuned to look at jet aircraft and incoming missiles. We haven't tuned our radars, we haven't alerted aircraft and searched to look for balloons. Now, we are. Maybe they've been here for some time. Maybe it's a new program that's coming against us.

But, sure, we do have the capacity to spot these things if we set up our radars and put the right systems in place. And if that's a concern, then we should be looking for it. And it seems to be a concern. If not real, then it's political and we want to make sure we've got confidence in our own national security.

HILL: General Wesley Clark, always appreciate your insight. Thank you.

CLARK: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, this morning, the death toll from the earthquake in Turkey and Syria now exceeds 36,000 people. Just staggering. And while hope is fading to find survivors, still somehow we are seeing incredible rescues. Overnight, a woman had been trapped in the rubble for 175 hours was pulled out alive.

HILL: Aid agencies, however, and authorities are warning that the chances of seeing more miraculous moments like that, understandably, they are becoming increasingly slim.

CNN's Sara Sidner is live in Turkey this morning.

And quite a scene behind you, my friend. Sara, what are you finding? What are you hearing from folks on the ground there?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: The devastation is just so enormous you cannot get your head around it. What you are seeing is just one spot where destruction is everywhere. But in every street there is a building and some streets there are multiple buildings that are just crushed, pulverized by the weight of the building smashing down on itself.

You are seeing right now people looking for potential people alive, but more likely people who have died. And I do want to give you a sense of how you're seeing this view from a bird's eye view. We are standing on a bridge that goes right over the street. It is perfectly fine. There is no bowing. There is no cracks.

What this speaks to, because you see some of the other buildings as well, if you look just past the rubble, there is a building that is still standing. And what you are seeing many people have been complaining about is that some of these buildings are just not built well. They are, as someone said, bad buildings that have crumbled in the face of a 7.8 and then a subsequent 7.6 earthquake. Those are huge earthquakes, make no mistake about it, but you can definitely see the difference between how some buildings have withstood them, even though they're damaged, and how some buildings have pancaked, which is a definite sign that something is wrong. And the government is now going after dozens of people, investigating them for bad building practices. I do want to give you a sense, though, because we have this bird's-eye

view, we're on this bridge, looking down at all of this. And if you look to the right, if you just go past these cables, you will see people sitting there. They have made makeshift stoves. They are drinking coffee and tea, which is very common in Turkey. They have wonderful, wonderful tea. But they are sitting there because they are waiting for the potential of their family members to be rescued or recovered. Family after family after family sit in the absolute freezing cold waiting to see if there's any signs of life or even at this point if there is any signs of their loved ones so that they can give them a proper burial.

We have seen so many scenes of sorrow here. And that's the hardest thing to take. The buildings are buildings, but the people here who are dealing with this know that they will be dealing with this for months if not years to come because it is such a vast destruction area across southern Turkey.

I do want to let you hear from a woman we spoke to, Erica and Jim, who was so distraught and she's just one example of what people are going through now as she waited to try and find the body of her husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KUDRET KOCEBELER, HUSBAND MISSING IN TURKEY QUAKE: (through translator): There is nobody out there. It's been six days. I'm waiting here with my twins, standing in the cold. My life, my blood, my everything, my best friend in life, he left me with my twins here alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: She has twins. They are 11 years old. There's a girl and the boy. They were also out there waiting to see if their father would finally be recovered.

[09:15:03]

That is just one of hundreds of stories like this. We now know up to 35,000 people have been killed and there are still hundreds more that they believe are trapped or dead in these collapsed buildings.

Back to you guys.

SCIUTTO: I mean those vigils, those poor families standing by those buildings waiting for -- well, slim chance of good news.

Sara Sidner, thanks so much.

HILL: Still to come this hour, one of former President Trump's attorneys confirming they do plan to challenge the Justice Department's subpoena for former Vice President Mike Pence. So, will that claim of executive privilege hold? We'll ask a lawyer.

Plus, the baby bump that stole the show at the Super Bowl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIHANNA, MUSICIAN (singing): When you hold me, I'm alive, we're like diamonds in the sky. I knew that we'd become --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Rihanna confirming after that blockbuster performance dangling above the field she is, in fact, expecting baby number two. We've got all the highlights from the big game.

SCIUTTO: That was the special guest.

Later, I'm going to speak with the former president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, after a weekend of massive shelling in the east, signs now that a new Russian offensive has begun.

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[09:20:20]

HILL: In a CNN exclusive, one of Donald Trump's attorneys says the search for classified documents at the former president's properties is done and that his legal team has handed over additional records, including a laptop, to the Justice Department.

SCIUTTO: Yes. In other words, they found more. Trump lawyer Timothy Parlatore confirmed his legal team found the additional classified material during a search in December.

CNN legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is with us.

Paula, you spoke to Trump's attorney. What more did they find and where exactly?

PAULA REID, CNN LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, he tried to dismiss this entire controversy as just the problems with how documents are packed up at the end of administrations. He said that's a problem for Trump, that's a problem for Biden, for Pence, but clearly, Jim, it's a lot more complicated for his client. He confirmed that, in fact, they did find additional documents with classified markings in December. They handed those over to investigators.

But, Jim, they also had these same documents that had been scanned on to a laptop belong to go a staffer for a PAC. And so I asked him how is it that a staff member of a PAC has access to classified materials? Now, he insisted she just thought she was copying schedules, she didn't realize that there were these classified materials in those boxes.

Look, that's not a great explanation.

SCIUTTO: No.

REID: Now they -

SCIUTTO: And that's also the responsibility of the person with the classified documents to protect them and not allow access to others.

REID: Exactly. One of the big questions here is, look, Trump's been out of office for two years, how is it that classified materials keep turning up? Now, in addition, they also turned over a folder that's marked classified evening briefing, and he explained where this folder was and why he had to turn it over.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY PARLATORE, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: He has one of those landline telephones next to his bed and has a blue light on it. And it keeps me up at night. So he took the manila folder and he put it over it so that it would keep the light down so he could sleep at night. And it's just this folder. It says classified evening summary on it. It is not a classification marking. It's not anything that is controlled in any way. There's nothing illegal about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So, using a folder like that to block the blue light on your nightstand, we also know that a similar folder is on display at a Trump bar at Trump Tower. It, as I told the attorney, it suggests a really flippant attitude towards classified information, particularly when you're under criminal investigation for possibly mishandling these materials. Now, Tim dismissed that. He said, look, this is just stationery. But it really speaks to how the former president feels about this entire investigation.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

REID: As much as they're trying to downplay it, the fact is that the special counsel, Jack Smith, he is firing off new subpoenas, he's targeting very high-profile witnesses, including former Vice President Mike Pence, former National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien. And the Trump legal team told me that, yes, in fact, they do intend to try to block some of that testimony by asserting executive privilege. Now, it's unclear how successful they'll be, but that will definitely likely drag this investigation out.

SCIUTTO: Right. And if there's a folder, you wonder where the contents of those folders, you know, at some point where the - where did the documents go?

REID: Is there nothing else you could use to block the blue light?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

REID: A lot of questions.

SCIUTTO: Paula Reid, thanks so much.

HILL: Joining me now to discuss, Elie Honig, former federal and state prosecutor.

Elie, always good to see you.

So, in terms of privilege, let's pick up there. So, Trump's attorney told Paula yesterday, look, if they're not going to give us a whole list of questions, then we are going to say, assert privilege to everything because, in his words, you can't let the DOJ run roughshod here over everything.

How common would it be for prosecutors to offer up the questions in advance so that a decision could be made on whether executive privilege may apply?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, that would be very uncommon, Erica. There's no rule or law requiring prosecutors to do that. Typically, you don't want to tell your witness in advance what exactly you're going to ask. But here's the problem prosecutors have in this case, if there's going to be a legal challenge to executive privilege, as Paula has now reported there will be, the judge is going to have to make those determinations question by question. It's not going to be a ruling on executive privilege sort of in the abstract. And so eventually each question will have to go in front of the judge and be decided.

So, really, prosecutors have two choices, one is they can say, fine, bring us to court and then we'll handle each question at the time in front of the judge, the other is to say, come on in, we'll will ask you the questions and then you can answer some and maybe not answer others. But, ultimately, the specifics of the questions will have to land in front of the judge.

HILL: So that's going to happen. Timing would come into play here, which we've been talking about from the moment we knew that there was a subpoena, right? In case executive privilege was brought into play here by the president, which now we're learning about, or, of course, if the vice president had said, hey, I'm not going to comply, which one of those two options makes more sense for investigators?

HONIG: Well, if DOJ wants to move this quickly, they would send out the list of questions. It may not be in their best interest strategically, but if they want to move this along as quickly as possible, they give the questions now and then they can go into court and say, we object to this question, this question, not that question.

[09:25:10]

Maybe the fourth question. Because here's the problem, there is a timing issue. We're already two and change years out from January 6th and it's going to take time. If there's going to be an executive privilege question over some of this stuff, you're going to have to go to the federal district court. Whoever loses there will certainly go to the federal court appeals. Whoever loses there will try to go to the U.S. Supreme Court. And even if this is super expedited, Erica, you're looking at four to five months minimum to get this legal dispute resolved.

HILL: There are also -- I thought it was interesting - you know, you know, the question that Paula asked, the question that I had, too, why would somebody who was affiliated with a PAC have access to those documents, have them on a laptop? It was explained away as, oh, you know, they didn't realize. They thought it was just schedules. In addition to, well, there are legitimate questions about how the White House handles its transition. That may be true. We're learning that.

But based on everything we've learned about both what was discovered and the attitude toward it, could this trigger any sort of additional investigation or request for another search?

HONIG: So, to me, that new piece of information from Paula is really important and I think really concerning to prosecutors and to the intelligence community because before we had these hard copy documents. We've seen the photos of them splayed out on the floor by the FBI during the search. So you're talking about pieces of paper. But now we know that those pieces of paper were replicated electronically, were scanned into a computer. Who knows? Was that the only laptop? Were they emailed? Were they scanned? Were they transmitted by any other way? So, now the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak, and I think prosecutors have to figure out, were they scanned, were they replicated, were they sent out any other means?

HILL: Elie Honig, always good to talk to you. Thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Erica. All right.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, a night of big athletic and musical MVP performances at the Super Bowl. Look at the moments folks are talking about the most this morning. What were your favorites?

Plus, the special guest on stage with Rihanna during her halftime performance, a surprise.

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[09:30:00]