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U.S. Shoots Down 3 Unidentified Objects in 3 Days Over North America; Pressure Mounting on Biden to Speak About Airborne Objects; Inside the Humanitarian Catastrophe in Syria; Turkish President Facing Criticism Over Quake Response. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 13, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:01:22]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The top of the hour this Monday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

This morning the White House refuting China's claims that the U.S. had illegally flown high-altitude balloons in Chinese airspace more than 10 times in the last year. The Biden administration calls that allegation flat-out false.

It's comes of course on the heels of the U.S. shooting down three unidentified airborne objects over the weekend.

SCIUTTO: It seems like one every day now. So far there was no indication whether any of those objects have connections to the first one shot down, China's suspected surveillance balloon. Right now U.S. officials are working to recover what remains of them. They were shot down with missiles as well.

There is some pressure mounting on President Biden to explain all this as one Democratic congressman says people are, quote, "freaked out." The Pentagon says there was no military threat. Despite that, national security officials across North America remained on alert for more of these.

And let's begin there. CNN national security reporter Natasha Bertrand here with the latest.

Natasha, what are we learning about the latest objects shot down, and I'm curious why they're seeing more of them, right? Are they looking more closely, it seems?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's been the big question, and actually the Defense Department did say yesterday that they have essentially broadened the aperture of what they're looking at. After that Chinese spy balloon passed over the U.S. last week, there was this political uproar about why the U.S. hadn't spotted this sooner, why it was allowed to trace over the United States.

Well, now, NORAD says that it has essentially opened its filters, and now it is seeing more objects that are slower-moving, perhaps at a higher altitude.

SCIUTTO: Smaller.

BERTRAND: Smaller. And that is why they have seen an uptick in the number of objects that they're just noticing now. But what we learned over the weekend is that they did shoot down of course these objects over Alaska, Northern Canada and over Lake Huron in Michigan. The ones over Alaska and Northern Canada, we are told that they were balloon- like, they had features that were very similar to a balloon. And they also had small cylindrical, metal payloads attached to them.

Now obviously we don't know whether these actually were balloons because that is the extent of the details we were given. But with the one that was shot down over Lake Huron in Michigan, that one is a little bit different. It was described as octagonal with strings attached to it, and it had potential surveillance capabilities according to the Defense Department. So very little it still known about where these objects came from, whether they're owned by a nation state or a private company.

But the U.S. government says that they're going to be analyzing the wreckage and the debris and hopefully they'll be able to learn more.

SCIUTTO: And we'll see if there are more object. Natasha Bertrand, thanks so much.

HILL: Joining us now to discuss, CNN national security analyst James Clapper. He is of course former director of National Intelligence.

Director Clapper, always good to see you. So when we look at what we do know this morning publicly which is not a lot, and there is of course, we are in this age of immediacy, where people need information. We're so used to getting information immediately. I'm curious what your questions this morning. What do you need answered?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, obviously, Erica, this is becoming balloon-gate, I guess we could call it. What we need is, you know, to recover these objects as the Pentagon has called them, and figure out first where they're from, and if possible what their source is. I think probably we've had balloons up for quite a while, and because of certain action to take which is much more sensitive about looking for them and finding them.

So the questions I have is where they come from and what's their purpose. And hopefully, if they recover the remnants of what's been shot down and can do some forensic analysis of whatever components they're able to recover, then we'll have some more insight into what they are, what the purpose is.

SCIUTTO: When you were director of National Intelligence, was this is a space that the U.S. intelligence community was watching closely or was concerned about at all, this kind of space between 40,000 or 60,000 below. Of course satellites above where at least commercial airlines fly. Was this -- or is this a new threat in effect?

CLAPPER: Well, Jim, I, you know, have been kind of racked my brain about that. I don't recall any threat or activity in an altitude regime, let's say 40,000 to 60,000 or 70,000 feet which is the edge of space.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CLAPPER: And from the intelligence perspective, I don't recall any evidence or reporting of activity in that altitude. I believe there was some Chinese academic publications that spoke of the use of balloons, but certainly not that which would reach the threshold of a national security threat.

HILL: There were a number of questions raised ahead of the shooting down of this Chinese surveillance balloon, questions about whether the president or the administration waited too long. Now we see, as Jim pointed out, one a day with these other objects over the weekend. How concerned are you about politics bleeding into some of these decisions?

CLAPPER: Well, frankly, I'm not really concerned about it. I don't think they pose, certainly not any sort of a kinetic threat unless they fall on somebody. From an intelligence perspective, I think probably the Chinese collector which clearly it was, and not collecting weather data, posed much more of a counterintelligence threat but I suspect that those in the nominal path of the balloon were warned, and they could and probably did take certain operational security measures, park airplanes in hangers, shut down communications.

I would point out that our nuclear command and control communications blinking on missile silos, bomber bases, are pretty secured. They're going to be by landline or even buried underground, so I don't think it posed much of an intrinsic threat. These other devices hard to know even what they are, whether they pose a threat or not, and we just -- we need more information.

SCIUTTO: I wonder what your concerns are now about escalation. You have China now -- China said within days of the first balloon that they reserved the right to do the same, now you have China says it spotted something over its air space, may shoot it down.

Do you, Director Clapper, are you concerned about this becoming a, well, a tit-for-tat, right, with the chance for escalation between two super powers?

CLAPPER: Well, it's certainly quite possible, Jim. And I would be very concerned, I think it's very dangerous that the -- when the Secretary of Defense Austin attempted to call this Chinese officer's number and he wouldn't take the call. Well, that's not good, and the whole reason for having these hotlines is to calm tensions, communicate with one another, to prevent an escalation. So I am more concerned about the lack of or the Chinese's unwillingness to communicate rather than the actual climb up the escalatory ladder so to speak by tit-for-tat shootdowns.

HILL: Director James Clapper, always appreciate your insight, your expertise. Thank you. CLAPPER: Thanks. Thanks very much. My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Well, in recent days, President Biden has not issued a public comment about the latest airborne objects. There are some calling for him to explain more exactly what the threat is, what the next steps are.

With us now Ron Brownstein, senior editor for "The Atlantic."

Ron Brownstein, good to have you on this morning.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Jim.

SCIUTTO: In the wake of the first shootdown off South Carolina, the president commented, and commented in advance, and afterwards, now you've had three more, and you have genuine questions there just as we were asking Director Clapper, you know, what's the level of the threat? Are you going to shoot down everyone now? Are we worried about escalation? Are questions the president needs to answer right now?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, sooner than later, I think. I don't know about right now. But yes, I mean, look, part of the job is explaining the world to the American public, and I think, you know, this is -- there are so many unanswered questions including the ones you were addressing with Director Clapper about whether we are merely finding more of something that was always going on or whether something is going on at an accelerated pace.

[10:10:09]

Where is this coming from, is there a threat, is to, you know, minimize the actual military consequences. But, yes, when there are questions of this magnitude, I think it's incumbent upon the president. I think, you know, look, Biden has been in Washington 50 years, former chair of Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I think he'd be quite comfortable stepping out and talking about this to the public. I'm guessing we'll hear from him sooner than later.

HILL: Yes. Interesting, too, to your point, as MJ was saying earlier there is some concern, too, in the White House about speaking too soon before you have all the information. Interesting to see when that happens.

We've got a lot to cover within Washington today. Having a little debt ceiling action, if you will, so we've learned that these so-called five families, leaders of the five families, it's impossible to miss the mob reference on that one, were meeting for the first time in the speaker's office last week. Is this how everything you think is going to go down in this Congress?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, well, it's a really good point. I mean, you know, the Republican conference, you know, is dominated by members from the most conservative, most pro-Trump district. About three quarters of them come from districts that Trump won by 10 points or more. And we saw the far edge of that, the Freedom Caucus, really control the process of selecting the speaker. But there are also 18 House Republicans from districts that Biden carried and almost another 20 from districts that Trump carried by five points or less, from much more competitive terrain.

They theoretically have as much influence as the right does. McCarthy's calculation so far I think has been to concede pretty much whatever the right is demanding and expect those from more competitive districts to fall in line in the end. So far that's played out for him, but it is going to be a constant balancing act when you are looking at a majority this small.

SCIUTTO: Yes. The trouble with the mafia references is I think the five families, the "Godfather" didn't end well.

HILL: It did not.

SCIUTTO: They went to the mattresses as they say. So, you know.

BROWNSTEIN: Take the gun, leave the cannoli.

SCIUTTO: Yes. OK. Let's talk about -- we talk a lot about challenging the former president on the Republican side for the nomination. You're going to have Nikki Haley announce this week, talk of DeSantis. But let's talk about the Democratic side for a moment. If polls continue to look bad not just for Trump as a candidate in 2024 but for Biden, can you see other Democrats at least dipping their toe into the race?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's what's so perplexing on the Democratic side, I think. On the one hand you do have consistently in polling, you know, a substantial number even of Democrats saying they do not think Biden should run again primarily because of his age. But institutionally the party has fallen in line almost completely behind him. And really it's not working in the opposition either in the center or on the left, which is where, you know, a challenge from either direction.

Jim, in the past, when you've had sort of presumptive nominees like this, Hillary Clinton in 2016, Al Gore in 2000, not exactly the same situation but similar, the challenge came from a singular figure who is not really part of the party mainstream, Bernie Sanders in 2000 from the left, Bill Bradley -- 2016 from the left, Bill Bradley in 2000 from the center. There might be an individual who is kind of not really, you know, within the central current of the party who decided they get the polls look bad in the fall. This makes sense to do.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: But at the moment it's hard to put your finger on who that would be given the lack of institutional support really anywhere in the party for me to challenge Biden.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It feels like it's Ted Kennedy riding (INAUDIBLE).

Ron Brownstein, we will not go to the mattresses here. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me. HILL: Still to come here, it has now been one week since that powerful

earthquake 7.8 magnitude earthquake and all the aftershocks ravaged Turkey and Syria, the death toll continues to climb as a humanitarian crisis deepens. We are live.

SCIUTTO: Plus, a New Jersey father is speaking out after his 14-year- old daughter took her own life after video was posted online showing the moment she was attacked by four other teenagers at her school. Lord, the dangers of social media, those heartbreaking details just ahead.

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SCIUTTO: Well, an incredible rescue has sparked a small glimmer of hope in the midst of so much suffering in Turkey this morning. Dozens of people, as you could see here, helped pull a 13-year-old boy from the rubble just earlier today. He was trapped for more than 180 hours. I can only imagine his suffering underneath the rubble.

HILL: Yes, and the hope that brings, but of course the stories like his are sadly becoming more and more rare. The U.N. aid chief says the rescue phase of the earthquake response is coming to a close as the death toll has now surpassed 36,000 people.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh joining us now from Adana, Turkey.

Jomana, I know you've been following the heartbreaking scenes in Syria as well. There is such a focus there because it is so much more difficult to get the aid into Syria.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Erica. It is, and I mean, this is a region of Syria that has faced humanitarian crisis after humanitarian crisis. You're talking about the last rebel-controlled enclave in northwestern Syria where you have more than four million people living. They are entirely reliant on international humanitarian aid. And right before the earthquake, the U.N. and other aid agencies had been warning about another humanitarian crisis because of the severe weather they've had this winter.

[10:20:00]

It has been freezing cold, it's been snowing, people didn't have enough shelter, just because the aids in the past couple of years has kind of slowed down and it has made very difficult for the U.N. and the other aid agencies to provide the response that is needed in a place where the needs are enormous. And then you also have a cholera outbreak that they've been dealing with. And on top of that, the earthquake.

So it is a very, very dire situation. There we traveled to Syria over the weekend getting a first-hand look at the impact of the earthquake.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KARADSHEH (voice-over): Baby Muhammad (PH) takes every little labored breath on his own. No mom, no dad to hold his tiny hand. His parents didn't survive the earthquake. The 3-month-old is rescued by neighbors who brought him to this ICU.

In the room next door, we find Ralya (PH), the 26-year-old will never walk again. The earthquake brought down her family's home and crushed her back. Her stepmom tells us Ralya and her three children were under the rubble for 18 hours. The children survived, but they don't know where they are.

In every room of this Syrian hospital, a sweet team of survival, many more should have been alive today to tell their tales. Doctors say they're trying to save them but didn't have enough supplies to save everyone.

The few medical facilities in rebel-held Syria are barely still standing after years of Russian and Syrian regime of bombardment that left them ill-equipped to deal with a disaster of this magnitude.

DR. AHMAD ALAABD, SYRIAN AMERICAN MEDICAL SOCIETY(through translator): We lost a lot of patients because of shortages and medical supplies. If we them, we could have saved many more lives.

KARADSHEH: This was the scene here last Monday, and in other facilities run by the Syrian American Medical Society.

ALAABD (through translator): This is the biggest disaster we ever had. We dealt with war injuries but never had to deal with this many casualties at once.

KARADSHEH: The people of this devastated land cried for help but no help came. Aid to rebel-held northwest Syria is tied in politics and at the mercy of a regime so cruel even at a time like this. They'll dig and dig with their bare hands and whatever they can find, desperately trying to reach their loved ones. It's too late for rescues now. They just want to bury their dead.

Mohammed (PH) is search for relatives. Expressionless and numbed, he tells us 21 of them including children. Life here feels like one endless cycle of loss and grief, and they've been displaced time and time again by more than a decade of war, they're now homeless once again.

We were sleeping under the trees, but it was so cold we came here, (INAUDIBLE) tell us. She begs the international communities to send them shelter. We just want a tent, she says. I wish we had died with everyone else so we don't go through this, she tell us. We survived only to live this misery and agony.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARADSHEH: And Erica and Jim, it's really shocking to hear people there, as you heard from that woman. All they want are the most basic of necessities. Shelter, tents for them now during this cold weather when they've also lost whatever little they had before the earthquake. And that has barely been making it into rebel-held Syria.

We also spoke to members of the White Helmets, the rescue group, and they said that they could have saved many more lives if the international community had mobilized faster within the first couple of days of this earthquake and sent them the equipment they needed to save more lives.

HILL: It is heartbreaking --

SCIUTTO: Some (INAUDIBLE) of responsibility there.

HILL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: It does seem. Jomana Karadsheh, thanks so much.

Well, joining us now is Asli Aydintasbas. She's a Turkish journalist, a visiting fellow now at the Brookings Institution.

Good to have you on this morning.

ASLI AYDINTASBAS, VISITING FELLOW AT BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Hi, Jim. Good to be here.

SCIUTTO: First to the scale of this. The losses simply staggering, more than double than the 1999 quake, which is already historically devastating. How does Turkey cope with a tragedy on a scale like this?

AYDINTASBAS: Jim, this is a major earthquake on a biblical scale. Last time something like this happened was 500 years ago. And we know from history that led to devastation. I'm afraid the death toll will double or even increase, get close to 100,000 people because we do know that 150,000 people were underneath the rubble, and unfortunately very few of them have actually survived. So we are looking into --

SCIUTTO: That's impossible to imagine.

AYDINTASBAS: It's really impossible to imagine, the suffering that you see underground in Turkey right now. Many scenes that we cannot even get to because, you know, still areas and villages and in smaller towns that are unreached.

[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes. Erdogan, the president of Turkey, he came to power in part following that 1999 earthquake promising to prevent something like that from happening again. I mean, he blamed poor construction standards, corruption. Is there any evidence as we watch these scenes that Erdogan did anything to fix those problems?

AYDINTASBAS: No, and I think part of the reason people are very angry now in Turkey is because it is not the earthquake that killed people only, it really buildings. Building that were built illegally and not observing Turkey's own earthquake zones. And I think that late response in terms of search and rescue, and the fact that government has wanted to centralize all relief efforts, all search and rescue efforts in a way that decapitated civil society and has led to a situation which is worse than the response in 1999.

So people are very angry in Turkey. This has bled into the already existing political fight in Turkey. And I'm afraid, you know, President Erdogan has done everything to prevent people from saying what he said in 1999, which was the state has collapsed. He's now approaching this thing in a way to prevent people from saying it. But I'm afraid people are saying that. It is a systemic collapse, much to do with his style of governance and his style of government and construction-based growth model.

SCIUTTO: To that point, style of government, genuine questions about anti-democratic tendencies here, elections are just a few months away in Turkey in June. Are you concerned that he delays those elections?

AYDINTASBAS: Yes, I think that June will be a difficult target to meet. I think opposition parties feel they can have it in June, and will push for that. President Erdogan will need a constitutional change, will need to go to opposition and say let's postpone it. Turkish constitution is very clear, it can only be postponed in wartime. But people are worried that there will be a de facto situation with president or election board that is controlled by the government coming out and saying, you know, we're going to hold it in a year's time which will only deepen the polarization and the internal fighting in Turkey.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. Well, I hope your prediction of a death toll approaching 100,000 doesn't prove to be true, but the signs alarming.

Asli Aydintasbas, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

AYDINTASBAS: Thank you, Jim.

HILL: Still to come here, a new study finds many children experiencing mental health crisis are simply not getting the help they need. Why so many are falling through the cracks? That's next.

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