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36,000 Dead in Turkey and Syria; White House Holds Press Briefing on Objects Shot From Sky. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 13, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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TIMOTHY PARLATORE, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: Those landline telephones next to his bed, and it has a blue light on it. And it keeps him up at night. So, we he took the manila folder and he put it over it, so that it would keep the light down, so he could sleep at night.

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS.

We will see you tomorrow.

The White House briefing expected to begin any moment. We're waiting for more details on those objects shot down over North America this weekend.

Kasie Hunt picks up our coverage right now.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. I am Kasie Hunt here in Washington.

We are going to begin with the scramble for answers after U.S. fighter jets were scrambled three days in a row this weekend, shooting down three separate aerial objects that were flying over North America.

In just moments, the White House is going to take questions on this deepening national security mystery, as President Biden faces increasing pressure to address the nation to explain what exactly is going on and who is behind these incursions.

So we're going to bring you that White House briefing as soon as it gets under way.

But we want to get started right now with CNN's Kylie Atwood and Phil Mattingly, who are tracking all of this.

Kyle, let me start with you at the State Department. So much of this is going to depend on what the government recovers from what is shot down. And what is the status of this? If they haven't determined the origins of these objects, have they narrowed it down? Have they ruled things out? What do we know? It doesn't seem like we know a lot. KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I would say just, no, they haven't really narrowed this down or ruled much out at all, Kasie, Kasie.

There were Pentagon officials who spoke with reporters last night. And they were really quite crystal clear in saying that they aren't ruling anything out right now just because they don't have any definitive answers as to the origin of what these objects are and their purpose, why they were over U.S. airspace.

I do think it's important to note that after that Chinese spy balloon was downed off the coast of South Carolina last weekend, what the U.S. government did was, they adjusted their radar system to pick up more -- to be more sensitive, essentially, at these higher elevation.

So that could be one of the reasons that they're picking up these objects now that previously they wouldn't have actually detected were in U.S. airspace. But that isn't necessarily the definitive reason here. They're still trying to figure out if there are actually more of these unknown objects in U.S. airspace or if it's just that they're picking these up now.

And I also think it's important to note that there are just a tremendous number of questions, but there's no direct correlation between these three objects that were down off the coast of Alaska on Friday, over Canada on Saturday, and over Lake Huron on Sunday and that Chinese spy balloon that was down last weekend, no correlation at this time.

Of course, we will wait to learn more about that as just more questions arise than answers, and they're focused really on recovery efforts. But, as of last night, the team that is in charge of the recovery for that object that was down off the coast of Alaska hadn't even started the recovery, because they were still getting to the location of where the object was downed, Kasie.

HUNT: So, Phil, obviously, the longer this information vacuum continues to exist, I think the more questions the White House and specifically President Biden is going to get, the more speculation there's going to be.

Obviously, the White House is going to try and address some of that at the briefing today. But it seems unlikely that just that alone is going to satisfy people. What is the strategy to try to get a handle on this?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, I think there's an acknowledgement that there's a very natural and real tension here, which is they don't want to come out and talk about this until they have really good detail as to what these objects were.

But they also understand that, in the absence of details about these objects, conspiracy theories, other theories, maybe real theories or accurate ones will become pervasive. And I think that's why you're going to see National Security Council spokesman John Kirby at the briefing today tried to address some of these issues. But, to Kylie's point, there are so many other interesting questions. And officials are quite clear that they believe that patience is necessary because the recovery is so critical here. While they have a sense of the size, the general size of the three objects, three objects that are not all the same, they make very clear as well, the scale of what they have been able to see up to this point is largely attributed to the flights that -- the fighters that actually buzzed these objects before they were shot down, which were going about 300 miles an hour.

So they don't have a good sense from that. That's why the recovery here is so critical. So you're going to hear obviously, from John Kirby at the press briefing. I think there are still questions about whether or not the president will come out and speak about this anytime soon.

But when he talked to officials inside the building, they made clear we need to know more before we can send the president out, before we can speak definitively about what this is, because, if not, any type of kind of further finding could complicate what is said in that moment.

And I think, to Kylie's point here, there are a couple of elements that are so critical, which is they have clearly widened the aperture in terms of their ability to see what's happening over territorial skies right now. That's one element of this. And I think that's in part because of the Chinese spy balloon, even though these three objects are not tied to it in any way, as far as we know, up to this point.

[13:05:15]

I think the other one too is just how quickly they have been willing to shoot these objects down. And I think whether or not that is a new policy, whether or not that maintains over time, how they explain that, I think is one of the critical questions here...

ATWOOD: What have they...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTINGLY: ... because the sense -- well, the sense we have gotten is that they are -- these are not necessarily new things that these objects exist.

Is this now the policy going forward that all of them get shot down always?

HUNT: No, for sure.

And you guys may have just overheard Kylie asking some of our producers what we may have just learned. And we do want to bring you this updated information that is just into CNN. Two of these objects -- we're not sure at this point which ones, but two of these objects are believed to have some sort of payload. So that's relatively limited information, but, again, two of these

three objects believed to have some sort of payload that were shot down over the weekend.

So, Kylie, can I bring you back in terms of just kind of helping us understand what this may mean?

ATWOOD: Yes, if they're -- I mean, the fact that two of these objects have payloads essentially means that there was something on board, right?

And we do know that there was a really significant payload for that Chinese spy balloon that was downed off the coast of South Carolina. So indications of a payload indicate that there's something on board there. There could be propulsion that was giving it the capability to actually fly and keep the object in the air.

Obviously, we don't know what is in that payload. But the fact that they are now discovering that they did have a payload means a few things. First of all, the recovery efforts have begun because, obviously, we know that the flights that were going past these objects before they were downed really didn't gather many substantial details about what was on the objects or what they included, other than the fact that they were unmanned.

So that is a good thing that we are starting to begin to learn some details about what was on board these objects.

HUNT: All right, Kylie Atwood, Phil Mattingly, stay close. It sounds like we're going to get a lot more coming in on this story as the afternoon unfolds. Thank you both very much for this.

Let's bring in now CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger and CNN military analyst retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Thank you both for being here as we contemplate this mystery.

David, let me start with you. The president, of course, has been criticized by especially Republicans for being indecisive about the Chinese spy balloon. Obviously, the approach has changed. Over the weekend, these three subsequent objects, there was very swift, seemingly decisive action to shoot them down.

We're still seeing criticism, no matter what, though. I mean, how should the White House strike the correct balance here between trying to explain to all of us what the heck is going on and protecting national security?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Kasie, I think you put it exactly right, because we don't have the balance right here to begin with.

Last year, they weren't picking up some of the balloons that were launched from China. They should be credited for the fact that they saw this one coming in from China, the initial balloon, from right at the time it was launched, tracked is along.

And my own personal view is, they probably learned more from tracking and across the U.S. than they ever would have had they shot it down early on. For the three others that we have seen over the weekend, at this point, they have turned their system up to be so sensitive that it's picking up lots of things.

And it's well-known and intelligence, when you start looking for something, you find more of them. And so they're shooting down objects that I suspect a month ago they probably would not have. So there are two things we have got to get an adjustment here, first, fine-tuning the radar systems and other sensors the way you would fine-tune a metal detector going through the airport, so not -- so that a couple of coins don't set it off in your pocket.

And then the second thing is coming up with a set of rules that make sense about what you shoot down.

HUNT: Yes.

General, can I just get your take on this? I mean, this obviously is a 180 in posture. We have now got this aggressive take on this from the administration, but, to David's point, is there -- should we be somewhere in the middle? I mean, what have you observed and thought through over the past few days?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, here's the thing, Kasie. And thanks for having me.

I -- first of all, I'm going to say with about 95 percent certainty I don't think this is the advent of a balloon invasion. As a military guy, my top concerns are, number one, politicians and the American public demanding answers as the military and intel community are still assessing the threat.

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As it's been said multiple times from the White House and from the DOD, they don't yet know what this is. So they have to assess it, kind of take a look at it, see what it's capable of.

Number two, we have to determine who's sending these different devices. So far, there's been, it looks like, three different kinds of devices as reported by the pilots. So, they may be from three different nations, from nongovernmental organizations or even from corporations.

Number three, understanding the capability of our air defense, as David just said, to adapt to the incoming threats, while keeping the most dangerous threats that might threaten us at the forefront. What's happening is -- as David just mentioned, is that NORAD is fine-tuning their sensors with more precise detection parameters, speed and size.

They are now probably picking up hang gliders, flocks of birds, and all sorts of things that normally the air defense systems would not normally pick up. And, number four, one of the things in terms of shooting these things down, the cost and attention devoted to these kinds of airspace incursions that may not be linked to the most dangerous threats or the most significant threats to our airspace puts us in a position of, if you try and defend against everything, you defend against nothing.

So, I mean, the military and an intel community are rapidly trying to assess this situation and provide the best advice. But, unfortunately, we have too many people giving advice that don't know what these radars provide at NORAD and what kind of decision-making processes go on in both the Department of Defense and the Pentagon -- or at the White House to address these kinds of threats.

HUNT: Yes. No, I'm glad you raised that, because it does seem as though there are plenty of normal flocks of birds in the sky. I believe NORAD, for example, tracks Santa Claus around Christmas time.

HERTLING: Exactly.

HUNT: We can't be shooting down everything that we may be picking up.

David, let's talk kind of big picture here, because you obviously spent a lot of time thinking about our position in the world and how our policies are playing out day to day. And there has been this gradual deterioration of communications between the United States and China.

Do you think the working relationship and how that has played out, especially in the wake of the balloon that we know is from the Chinese, is that affecting how this is all playing out now? Would we be in a better position if those conversations were in a better place?

SANGER: Kasie, you put your finger on the one point here that actually worries me more than the balloons do, which is that, when the first balloon happened, the one that we knew was from China, and we started using the systems that have been set up with China, hot lines and communications lines and so forth, no one answered the phone.

The defense minister of China would not get on the phone with Lloyd Austin, the U.S. defense secretary. The National Security Council had trouble getting through. Of course, once Secretary Blinken canceled his trip to China, they were offended and they wouldn't answer the phone.

But the most worrisome thing here is that it has revealed how poor communications are. This is a problem that was supposed to have been solved in 2001, when the United States had a spy plane that collided with a Chinese fighter off of Hainan Island, actually the location where we think they're launching these balloons from.

And after that incident, which killed a Chinese pilot and so forth, they set up these elaborate systems. But the systems only work if someone picks them up at the other end. And that's the biggest worry right now, because, if you got into something really big, like Taiwan, you couldn't have that lack of communication safely.

HUNT: Yes. No, the stakes incredibly, incredibly far too high for that to be the reality.

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: David Sanger, General Mark Hertling, thank you both so much. I really appreciate your time.

I just want to remind everybody we are waiting for the White House briefing to get under way. So, hopefully, we will get some of our questions answered about that. They're running a couple minutes behind, but we will bring that to you as soon as it gets under way.

But let's go now to Turkey and Syria, where the staggering earthquake death toll is now over 36,000 people. But amid so much anguish over the region, remarkable stories of survival are still happening. After spending 182 hours -- that's seven-and-a-half days -- stuck under rubble, a 13-year-old boy was rescued this morning in one of the hardest-hit provinces in Turkey.

You can see him here clutching the hand of one of his rescuers. But in parts of Syria, rescue efforts in rebel held areas have ended, and the mission isn't now only recovery, this as the U.S. urges the U.N. to open more access points to try and get aid in to help people on the ground there.

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CNN Nada Bashir joins us now from an aid distribution center in Istanbul, Turkey -- Nada.

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, I mean, those moments of hope that we have seen over the weekend and indeed even today of people still being recovered from the rubble alive has really given the volunteers here and everyone across Turkey a sense of hope.

But, of course, as you mentioned, that window for finding survivors is closing pretty quickly. And this is certainly turning into more of a recovery effort. And the focus is certainly shifting now on offering our support, that vital humanitarian assistance to those who did survive, but, of course, have now lost everything.

Now, this distribution center here in Istanbul really is the hub of the humanitarian response effort in this city, more than 20,000 volunteers working around the clock over the last week to collect the aid, the donations coming in, to sort through them, and to then transfer that aid to southeast Turkey.

And you might be able to hear the beeping behind me. There are a couple of trucks lined up already being filled with aid ready to head out tonight to Southeast Turkey. This is one of more than already 200 trucks which have left this distribution center over the last week.

Also, ships have now arrived in Hatay, coming from Istanbul filled with aid for the beds for people who have nowhere to go, as well as crucial medical assistance. But the message that we have been hearing here from the coordinators is that this isn't enough. They need more. They need more aid, more support from the government here in Turkey.

But, crucially, they also need more support from the international community. And you mentioned Northwest Syria. That has been a key area of concern. And it continues to be, because the aid that we're seeing here is far more robust than the aid that is getting to those who have lost everything in Northwest Syria, the actual aid crossing Bab al- Hawa from Turkey to Northwest Syria took days to get to.

And, so far, just around 60 U.N. trucks have now entered Northwest Syria. There are calls for crossline access now to aid being transferred from government-controlled territory in Damascus to that rebel-held territory hit by the quake in the northwest of the country. But aid groups say they aren't seeing this aid just yet.

So that is a key focus there. The people of Syria they feel abandoned. And here in Turkey, there is a growing feeling of frustration and even anger, some questioning whether enough was done to prepare for a disaster of this scale and questioning whether enough was done to get the aid to those in need as quickly as the government could.

The government, for its part, says it is carrying out an investigation into allegations of construction negligence. They have already identified more than 100 suspects they believe could be connected to questions of negligence when it comes to the construction of those now destroyed buildings in Southeast Turkey. And a number of arrests have already been made.

But, of course, the calls for accountability here in Turkey are only growing.

HUNT: All right, Nada Bashir, thank you very much for that reporting.

The new Russian offensive in Ukraine is already under way. That's according to the NATO secretary-general, as the alliance warns that critical weapons are becoming harder to supply to Ukrainian troops. We're going to have details ahead.

Plus, how a lawyer for former President Trump is explaining how a classified folder was found in Trump's bedroom.

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HUNT: Welcome back.

We're going to listen to John Kirby talk about these flying objects that have been shot down over the weekend. Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: ... take whatever questions you might have.

So, I'd like to begin today by updating you on our efforts to recover the debris of several objects that the United States Air Force shot down over the last few days, as well as that of the spy balloon belonging to the People's Republic of China.

And I'd like to put into some context for you how we have worked and are still working to better understand the issue of high-altitude, low-speed craft. And let me start with the Chinese program.

When President Biden came into office, he directed the U.S. intelligence community to do a broad assessment of Chinese intelligence capabilities, and to ensure, and to ensure that we were working to detect and to protect against them.

I think for reasons that you will all understand, we cannot publicly go into many details about how we discover and counteract foreign intelligence collection efforts, because much of what we have done and are doing is, of course, sensitive.

But we were able to determine that China has a high-altitude balloon program for intelligence collection that's connected to the People's Liberation Army. It was operating during the previous administration, but they did not detect it. We detected it. We tracked it. And we have been carefully studying it to learn as much as we can.

We know that these PRC surveillance balloons have crossed over dozens of countries on multiple continents around the world, including some of our closest allies and partners. We assessed that, at this time, these balloons have provided limited additive capabilities to the PRC's other intelligence platforms used over the United States.

But, in the future, if the PRC continues to advance this technology, it certainly could become more valuable to them. The president also instructed the intelligence community to take a broad look at the phenomenon of unidentified aerial objects.

Indeed, President Biden conducted the first ever daily intelligence briefing session devoted to this phenomenon back in June of 2021. He was briefed that this is not just an issue for the United States, but one for the rest of the world. And, as I said, our friends and our partners are dealing with this as well.

We worked on a bipartisan basis to stand up an office at the Pentagon to study this, in partnership with the intelligence community, academic institutions, and the private sector. These unidentified aerial phenomena had been reported for many years without explanation or deep examination by the government.

President Biden has changed all that. We are finally trying to understand them better. Now, in light of the Chinese balloon program and this recent incursion into our airspace, the United States and Canada through NORAD have been more closely scrutinizing that airspace, including enhancing our radar capabilities, which, as the commander of NORTHCOM and NORAD, General VanHerck, said just last night, may at least partially explain the increase in the objects that have been detected.

Slow-moving objects at high altitude with a small radar cross-section are difficult to detect on radar. Even objects the size of a -- the Chinese spy balloon, which had a payload the size of roughly three school buses were not picked up by previous administrations or other countries.

We also know that a range of entities, including countries, companies, research and academic organizations, operate objects at these altitudes for purposes that are not nefarious at all, including scientific research. That said, because we have not yet been able to definitively assess what these most recent objects are, we acted out of an abundance of caution to protect the security, our security, our interests, and flight safety.

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In Saturday's case, we acted in consultation with the Canadian government, the president speaking personally with Prime Minister Trudeau. The spy balloon was, of course, different, because we knew precisely where that was.

As we have said, we do not assess that these most recent objects posed any direct threat to people on the ground. And we are laser-focused on confirming their nature and purpose, including through intensive efforts to collect debris in the remote locations where they have fallen.

In each instance, we have followed the same basic course. We assessed whether they posed any kinetic threat to people on the ground. They did not. We assessed whether they were sending any communication signals. We detected none. We looked to see whether they were maneuvering or had any propulsion capabilities. We saw no signs of that.

And we made sure to determine whether or not they were manned. They were not. We did, however, assess that their altitudes were considerably lower than the Chinese high-altitude balloon and did pose a threat to civilian commercial air traffic.

And while we have no specific reason to suspect that they were conducting surveillance of any kind, we couldn't rule that out. That is why the president, at the recommendation of the secretary of defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the NORTHCOM, NORAD commander, gave the order to shoot them down.

These missions were completed successfully and safely. Efforts are actively under way right now at all sites to find what is left of those objects, so that we can better understand and communicate with the American people what they are.

I think it's important to remind the objects in Alaska and Canada are in pretty remote terrain, ice and wilderness, all of that making it difficult to find them in winter weather. The object over Lake Huron now lies in what is probably very deep water.

So outside of recovery operations, what are we doing? Well, first, we are continuing to monitor. There are no active tracks today. But the professionals at NORAD will continue to do their important work.

Secondly, we are consulting with allies and partners on the challenge of identified aerial phenomenon, and how we can all work together to deal with that challenge. The president has directed the secretary of state, the secretary of defense and the director of national intelligence to engage with their relevant counterparts to share information and to try to gain their perspectives as well.

Again, this is an issue that affects everybody around the world. Third, we will continue to brief members of Congress and relevant state leadership on what we are doing and what we learn.

The president has made this a very top priority. We have over the course of just the last few days and certainly over the course of last week reached out to inform and brief members of Congress and relevant state governors of the operations that we were conducting and of the recovery operations that are under way.

We have also kept Congress briefed generally on this issue of Chinese surveillance balloons, including classified briefings last August. And, last week, administration officials provided classified briefings for all senators and all members of the House of Representatives on the PRC surveillance balloon.

We fully expect and anticipate and support the ability to continue these briefings in the days ahead. And, fourth, the president through his national security adviser has today directed an interagency team to study the broader policy implications for detection, analysis, and disposition of unidentified aerial objects that pose either safety or security risks.

Every element of the government will redouble their efforts to understand and mitigate these events.

And I'm happy to take some questions.

QUESTION: John, if the objects don't pose a military threat, and they don't pose a threat to anybody on the ground, why shoot them down, particularly because the military has -- is routinely monitoring radar -- radar blips?

KIRBY: I kind of covered that in the opening statement.

Two real reasons here. First, there was a very real potential risk to civilian air traffic. The one shot down on Saturday -- I'm sorry -- yesterday was about 20,000 feet. And the two shot down Friday and Saturday were at about 40,000 feet.

And, as you know, transcontinental air traffic is roughly around 30,000 feet. It depends, of course, on weather. And so, because we assessed that they weren't manned and weren't being controlled, therefore, left to atmospheric conditions, the real risk to safety of flight was a problem.

The second purpose -- and I talked about this earlier too -- was, even though we had no indications that any of these three objects were surveilling, we couldn't rule that out.