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Three Dead and Five Wounded in Michigan Shooting; Pence Cites Legislative Privilege against Subpoena; Inflation Still Hot in January; Nikki Haley Enters Presidential Race; Senate to be Briefed on Unidentified Objects. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 14, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:24]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good Tuesday morning. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Where to begin? But a place we begin so often. A night of terror and heartbreak. This time at Michigan State University. A gunman opened fire at two locations on the campus in East Lansing, Michigan. He killed three students and critically injured five others. Cellphone video caught the chaotic moments after gunshots rang out. Students forced to run for their lives. Some sheltered in place in cafeterias. Others had to barricade themselves inside their own dorm rooms.

HILL: Take a listen here as one witness describes those moments, the moment when the gunman entered a classroom and opened fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIK MOLOTKY, MICHIGAN STATE STUDENT: The shooter came in our room and shot three to four times. And I'm pretty sure he -- he hit two -- two students in our classroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Police say it was a caller's tip which led them to the 43-year- old gunman after an hours' long manhunt. Police crediting early calls, too, in terms of their response. They say the suspect had no connection to the university and died of a self-inflected gunshot wound.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is live in East Lansing, Michigan, this morning.

We just learned a fair amount at that press conference. What else did we learn there, Adrienne?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica, I'll take you through what authorities just told us. We learned all of the students who were shot were students, in fact,

here at Michigan State University. We know the three deceased were students here, as well as the other five who are listed in critical condition.

Investigators telling us the suspect was a 43-year-old. And they also identified him as Anthony McRae.

Investigators were clear and said they do not know right now what this person's motive was. They don't know why he showed up here at The Union, which is behind me, and the other academic hall just next door, and started firing shots. They say he had no connection to MSU.

Investigators did recover a handgun and they also executed a search warrant on a residence linked to the suspect. But investigators would not confirm or deny whether that residence is where this 43-year-old man lived.

Members of law enforcement were stunned as well as health officials caring for those five who are in critical condition, as well as a lawmaker who went through this in 2020 in November. I was there at the Oxford shooting. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): For me, the most haunting picture of last night was watching the cameras pan through the crowds and seeing a young person wearing an "Oxford strong" sweatshirt. The sweatshirts that were handed out after those kids lived through a school shooting 15 months ago. And we have children in Michigan who are living through their second school shooting in under a year and a half. If this is not a wake-up call to do something, I don't know what is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: So, a lot of emotion there as you can imagine as she's talking about those students who were in their senior year when that Oxford school shooting happened and now they are freshmen here at Michigan State University.

For those of you who may not be familiar with the campus, this is the main thoroughfare. We are on Grand River Avenue. The Union is just behind us. It is the heart of campus. It's where people come between classes. I've stopped by The Union often during my four years here at Michigan State University. The multicultural center is here. There's food places here. Sparty's is here. It's a short walk from the Sparty statue.

And one thing that is likely on the minds of the students who survived this shooting, when they enter a building, they'll be scanning for an exit.

Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's got to be particularly tough for you, Adrienne, having gone to Michigan State and see this happen to a place I know is near to you. Thank you for bringing us those updates.

With us now, CNN law enforcement analyst and former Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Fanone.

Michael, good to have you on this morning.

MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: You know, I mean I've asked these same questions about an - you know, countless number of times, motive, how did they get the gun, you know, police response, et cetera. You've been in law enforcement for years.

[09:05:01]

I mean is there any more essential fact to an event like this than the fact that this person was able to get a gun?

FANONE: No, I mean, I think that pretty much sums it up. You know, the readily available access to firearms. I mean, I do think it's important that we take this time to recognize law enforcement's response in this situation and the cooperation that they had with the public.

You know, in an active shooter scenario, responding officers are trained that their primary responsibility is to identify and neutralize the threat posed by that shooter. And in this case, law enforcement's efficiency in obtaining those surveillance images of the shooter and their decision to release those images to the public that resulted in that tip and ultimately led officers to the shooter's location just shows how effective that relationship can be.

HILL: Absolutely. And we heard that from Chris Rozman in this briefing earlier talking about, you know, commending the community, talking about how important it was once that picture was out that somebody was vigilant, they recognized it, they called.

When this is now so commonplace, sadly, in this country, that we are talking about a shooting, as Jim said, that we have asked these questions countless times, what has changed, in your view, in terms of training, both for responding to these active shooter situations and specifically on a massive campus like this, and even not just the training for officers, but what happens afterwards in terms of the lasting trauma that people in this country have and specifically law enforcement has after continually responding to mass shooting events?

FANONE: Well, the training changed dramatically in the aftermath of Columbine. At that point in time the, you know, train of thought was that law enforcement officers, first responders should set up a perimeter and wait for more specialized units, your SWAT units, your CERT (ph) units to respond there and make entry into the structure.

Since then, it's changed. When I first came on the police department in 2001, we had five-man response teams. Then it was brought down to four. Then three. And, ultimately, the first responding officer's sole responsibility is to enter the structure, even if it means alone, and identify the shooter and stop that threat.

SCIUTTO: The trouble is, Michael, right, that even with the best training, right, and even with heroes -- I mean we've had this situation with a number of shootings where folks confront the shooter -- you can kill a lot in seconds, right, particularly with semiautomatic weapons. And I was struck by the video, I believe we have it, from the roof of a nearby building, that showed all the -- first of all, those are people running, right, for their lives. But it shows all the police cars that responded. I mean it was hard to count, dozens of them.

So, they got there quickly. As quickly as they could. Here you go. They were able to identify a suspect quickly. But he was still able to kill three people and injure five others. I mean, there are limits, are there not, to what even the best trained law enforcement can do?

FANONE: Well, absolutely. I mean, law enforcement is a reactive body. You know, our job is to respond to these situations. You know, a lot more needs to be done, obviously, in my opinion, to prevent individuals like this shooter from obtaining firearms, from having firearms. I mean ultimately, at the end of the day -- well, listen, Jim, I'm a gun owner and I believe in a strong Second Amendment, but I think that it's important that, you know, we take stock in these situations and recognize that it's time to place our public safety needs ahead of our recreational wants.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Michael Fanone, always appreciate your insight, your expertise.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Thank you.

FANONE: Thank you.

HILL: Well, new this morning, former Vice President Mike Pence is expected to fight that subpoena to appear before a grand jury. The special counsel investigating former President Trump is seeking Pence's testimony on Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

SCIUTTO: CNN crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz is here now.

Katelyn, I thought the former vice president wanted to give his account of the truth out there, but he's fighting this subpoena. Can you tell us why and on what basis?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, we don't know if he's fighting yet in that we haven't seen any court filings at this time, but he has spoken publicly in the past about some of his conversations with Donald Trump. The special counsel's office came to him with a subpoena for testimony telling him you need to show up at the grand jury and speak under oath. And now our reporting this morning is that he is going to launch a major, unprecedented legal fight. [09:10:06]

The sort of thing that really has not been tested in courts before. Whenever we've talked about these sorts of legal challenges, a lot of the discussion has been around the executive branch. Are there protections around the presidency? That was what was theoretically expected with Pence.

SCIUTTO: Right.

POLANTZ: But, actually, his team appears to be gearing up to make a different sort of argument, that on January 6th he was acting as the president of the Senate, and thus some productions around him that apply to Congress should also expand to him potentially. And so that is going to be the type of legal challenge that the courts really haven't made calls on before.

SCIUTTO: Right.

POLANTZ: And with Pence, he could potentially be challenging the full extent of the subpoena, not just declining to answer questions.

SCIUTTO: But he wrote about some of this in a book that he sold.

POLANTZ: He did, although the speech or debate protection around Congress is quite broad, even in criminal cases. Sometimes there are members of Congress that are subpoenaed to testify in trials and they say, we're just not showing up. So, we're just going to have to see how this plays out, what the vice presidency actually is.

SCIUTTO: Right.

POLANTZ: Is it a member of Congress in this - in this context, or is he a member of the executive branch?

SCIUTTO: And it will drag it out.

POLANTZ: Indeed.

SCIUTTO: Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

We do have this just into CNN, the latest inflation numbers are out. They were still hot in January, though there are some signs of some categories of prices cooling down.

HILL: CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joining us now.

Any surprises for you?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, you had inflation up 6.4 percent over the past year, and so that's seven months in a row of slightly declining, moderating inflation I would say, but that month over month figure up 0.5 percent from December to January is getting a lot of attention. About half of that increase was because of shelter. And that's something that's not easy to shield yourself from, shelter inflation. So we're watching that carefully.

Overall, you can see that trend there, 6.4 percent, a little hotter than many on Wall Street had expected, but it is moderating from that 9.1 percent pace that we saw last summer.

And when I show you this month over month, you can see where I was a little concerned about that pop there on that last - that last bar. That is because of shelter. That is because of food, natural gas and gasoline prices. Those numbers year over year are still troublesome, you know?

So, what I would say -- my takeaway from this is, people are still feeling the pinch of inflation. It is still a year into this big story for American households and kitchen table economics. It is not getting dramatically worse, but it's only slowly getting better. And I think it shows the Fed still has more work to do here to try to slow down the economy a little bit, get the economy growing a little bit below growth potential so that you can start to really stamp out inflation, because inflation is something that's difficult for families.

On the shelter front, I'd just like to point out a statistic we've all been talking about, our team here. Rent prices. It was a record increase for rent prices at 8 percent. So that is - operates at a lag. Maybe it will turn around a little bit.

Also in here, egg prices up 70 percent. I'm hoping that will turn around. But, guys, because I've been watching wholesale egg prices decline, but butter prices up about 30 percent year over year. So, people still feel it. You know, they still feel it. Inflation, I think, is still issue number one for American households.

HILL: Yes, I understand. I will say, I bought eggs yesterday.

ROMANS: Yes.

HILL: Mother of teenagers here. And there was a slight decrease.

ROMANS: Great. OK. Well, here -

HILL: At my local grocery store. So --

ROMANS: Anecdotal is very important.

HILL: One mom's report.

Christine, appreciate it. Thank you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

SCIUTTO: New this morning, another story we're following, Nikki Haley has officially thrown her hat in the ring for the 2024 presidential race. See her pitch for why Republicans, she says, should pick her over Donald Trump.

Plus, we'll be live in Turkey as Chef Jos Andres and his World Central Kitchen deliver critical food and supplies to earthquake victims, as they do so often.

HILL: Also this hour, testimony set to resume in Alex Murdaugh's double murder trial despite two jurors being replaced due to Covid. Newly released body cam video of Alex Murdaugh as the first officer arrived at the scene. What that video may tell us.

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[09:18:17]

SCIUTTO: New this morning, former South Carolina Republican governor, and former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Nikki Haley, has now officially announced, in a video, she's running for president in 2024.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You should know this about me, I don't put up with bullies. And when you kick back, it hurts them more if you're wearing heels.

I'm Nikki Haley, and I'm running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Now, Haley is expected to speak tomorrow at a campaign launch event in Charleston.

Joining us now to discuss White House bureau chief for "The Washington Post," Toluse Olorunnipa.

Toluse, great to have you here this morning.

Look, there's been a lot of anticipation about not only Nikki Haley but others, and once she's in, what that could mean. How is the White House looking at this, this morning?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, "THE WASHINGTON POST": The White House has been spending much of the last several weeks looking at Republicans fighting one another, whether it be in Congress, whether it be at the presidential level. And the White House is happy to have more people coming into the race in the Republican side because they think that that will showcase some dysfunction between different wings of the party. They obviously know that former President Donald Trump is in the race, but once other Republicans start getting in the race, it's going to cause a discussion over different policies, different approaches to politics, and the White House thinks that that will benefit President Joe Biden, who has been talking about all of the things that are happening in the economy, talking about bringing jobs back. And so they would rather focus on their message and allow Republicans to spend time fighting one another. And so they're happy that Nikki Haley's getting into the race and they're hoping that more Republicans get into this race sooner rather than later. SCIUTTO: There are Republicans, Nancy Mace among them, Republican

Congressman Nancy Mace, who this morning expressed concerns about too many Republicans coming into the primary and, therefore, giving Donald Trump the same path he had basically in 2016 of so many folks splitting the vote, he takes 30 percent, 40 percent and he's the nominee.

[09:20:20]

OLORUNNIPA: That is definitely a possibility. We have not seen any specific Republican rise to the top of the pack yet. We have talked - we've seen a lot of talk about Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida. He has not thrown his hat into the ring officially yet, even though he's making a lot of moves that show that he may be one of the next Republicans to join into the presidential race. But right now it doesn't appear that he has cleared the field. It doesn't appear that Donald Trump has cleared the field. And so we could see six, seven, eight, nine or ten Republicans get into this race. We've seen governors and senators and a number of different people from across the spectrum of the Republican Party say they're interested. And so we could be in a position where you have so many Republicans splitting the vote and Donald Trump has the strongest base of any of the, you know, potential candidates. And so he could be the one that comes out on top again.

HILL: Toluse, do you think we have a good sense this morning of who Nikki Haley's base is at this point?

OLORUNNIPA: Not yet. She says she's going to spend much of the next several weeks trying to define that base, trying to rally that base. She talked about her background, her upbringing, the fact that she's a woman and she said that, you know, if you're in heels, when you kick back it's going to have more of an impact.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

OLORUNNIPA: So, I do think she's trying to appeal to women, appeal to suburban women and also appeal to people who want a new generation of leadership, but it's not yet clear that that is a majority of the Republican Party just yet.

SCIUTTO: We'll see. Oftentimes, you know, the underdog is the one who comes out on top. It's so early in the race.

Toluse Olorunnipa, thanks so much.

OLORUNNIPA: Thank you.

HILL: In the next hour, senators are expected to receive a classified intel briefing on those three unidentified objects the U.S. military shot down over the weekend. Yesterday, the Pentagon sent a memo to lawmakers describing the object shot down over Canada Saturday as a small, metallic balloon with a tethered payload below it.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Clearly a variety of things operating in this space.

CNN's senior White House correspondent MJ Lee joins us now with more.

MJ, I wonder, when you speak to White House officials, what's their level of alarm right now? Do they believe they have this handled or that they're coming to grips with a bigger threat than they imagined?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, one thing I can tell you this morning is that given that the Biden administration continues to not have a lot of answers on these three objects that were downed over North America in recent days, there's been a lot of focus, obviously, on the recovery efforts. But what one senior administration official is telling us this morning is that it is possible that the U.S. and Canada may not be able to recover at all the debris of these three objects. They said if they can't be recovered, it's going to be extremely difficult to say with great certainty what these things were.

Obviously, a huge problem that officials are facing right now is that these three objects were downed over areas that are pretty remote, really being described as the wilderness in some cases. You know, there was he one object that fell into Lake Huron, they believe, into deep water. There were the two other objects over Alaska and the Yukon where really the terrain is just really difficult to navigate basically. And the winter weather hasn't been helping either.

So, without the debris, we are being told that the U.S. intelligence community is really trying to lean on information that they do have, but it is obviously limited. We are talking about things like observations made by U.S. pilots who were operating those fighter jets. And then, of course, the flight patterns of these objects before they were shot down. So this is why we are seeing a situation where the administration is not able to give a lot of answers.

There was, of course, the one thing that the White House was very keen on ruling out yesterday, and that was when the White House came out and said, look, what these objects were, were not UFOs. What the president ordered shot down did not have signs of extraterrestrial activity. And the reason we are told by officials that they came out and said that so definitively is because they are sensitive to the fact that we are in a situation where people might start sort of heading into conspiracy theory territory that these objects are obviously very mysterious in nature and they wanted to sort of like nip that in the bud as quickly as possible, even though they don't have a ton of concrete information they can share about these three objects right now.

As you mentioned, we are also, obviously, seeing just a flurry of activity with senior administration officials trying to brief lawmakers and trying to share with them what they can. But even in some of these classified briefing settings it's just unclear how much more information they can share at this moment in time.

Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's not aliens.

[09:25:00] MJ Lee, thank you.

Still ahead, Ukrainian troops are receiving accelerated training now on tanks from western allies, hoping to return to the front lines as soon as possible. What Ukraine is hoping to hear from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, perhaps some more help, when he speaks in moments.

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HILL: Moments from now, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, are expected to hold a press conference in Brussels. They're getting ready for a closed door meeting with NATO defense ministers later today. And that comes as Austin reiterates support from allies and as Ukraine, of course, is facing a new Russian offensive.

[09:30:04]