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Three Students Dead, Five Students Wounded in Michigan State University Shooting; Senate Briefing This Morning on Three Objects Shot Down by U.S. Military; Inflation Still Hot in January, But Some Prices are Cooling Off. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 14, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After its investigation, the pilots, who have a combined 25,000 hours of flight time received additional training. But neither the FAA nor United will say why the pilots ended up in a dive, telling CNN those safety investigations are confidential.

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COHEN (on camera): And it is unclear if severe weather in that area might have played a role here. There was some was extreme turbulence on another flight hours earlier that injured dozens of passengers. So, Jim, a lot we don't know right now, including whether that maneuver was even intentional.

But what we do know is the acting FAA's acting administrator is going to be testifying in front of a Senate committee on Wednesday about all of the issues in the aviation world right now. And there is a good chance this is going to come up.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, understandable questions for passengers. Gabe Cohen, thanks very much.

Top of the hour this Tuesday, I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

Three students at Michigan State University are dead this morning, five others are in critical condition. This is after a gunman opened fire at two different locations on campus in East Lansing on Monday night. Cell phone video caught those horrific moments after the gunshots rang out. You can see students running for their lives, some barricaded in their dorm rooms.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were there locked in the rooms and the guys were telling us to run out of the back doors as quick as we can and run for our lives. And I sprinted out there as fast as I can into the woods. And then from there, I thought that the side of the campus would be safe, and then I got a text from my brother saying that they were over near that area. And then I entered Akers, and then when I came to Akers, people started running, telling me to run, but they came from the Akers. So, it's just a terrifying experience.

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SCIUTTO: Of course, it would be. Police say a caller's tip led him to the 43-year-old gunman after an hours' long manhunt. They say he had no connection to the university, later died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Police say they have recovered a weapon, have not yet determined if that was the weapon used in the shooting.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus joins us now from East Lansing, Michigan. So, police this morning, they released some new information on the gunman. What do we know so far?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we now know his name. The 43-year-old, according to investigators, is Anthony McCrae. And as you mentioned, those police are telling us that 43-year-old had no ties to Michigan State University. And law enforcement said, to be quite honest, they don't know what the motive is at this hour.

But one thing is clear, students who survived that overnight shooting were terrified. We spoke with a 19-year-old sophomore who says she was inside of her classroom. Her teacher was presenting a history lesson when that 43-year-old entered her classroom and started shooting. She told CNN she smelled and saw the gunfire.

Listen in to more of her conversation.

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CLAIRE PAPOULIAS, MICHIGAN STATE STUDENT: Yes, I could hear gunshots like directly behind my head, and I could see the smoke, like gunpowder or something from the weapon firing and then I could smell. And immediately I dropped to the floor with all of my classmates and someone was yelling that there was a shooter, everybody needed to get down on the ground. And at that moment, I thought that I was going to die. I was so scared.

I will never forget the screams of my classmates, as they were like screaming for pain for help.

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BROADDUS: She says everyone was huddled together and you could hear her voice trembling as she described the moments. That shooting left three students deceased. Another five are in critical condition this morning fighting for their lives. Jim and Erica?

SCIUTTO: I imagine survivors like that have traumatic memories now to deal with and live with. Adrienne Broaddus there on campus, thanks so much.

During a news conference this morning, the medical officer at the hospital, which is now treating the five students critically injured, broke down while describing the efforts to save their lives.

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DR. DENNY MARTIN, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, E.W. SPARROW HOSPITAL: The four of those individuals did require surgical intervention to treat their injuries. One individual did not, and was taken to the critical care unit after being triaged in the emergency department. All five individuals remain in critical condition this morning.

We received a lot of texts that were just, you know, I'm on people, just people were showing up, where do you need me? It was a sad, but very proud moment for all of us here.

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HILL: A sad but proud night.

Joining us now, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. John, we hear those comments, it's not just the medical staff, right?

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And this is, by all accounts, from what I've certainly last night and this morning, a very tight-knit community in East Lansing. But has also been praised is the law enforcement here, how quick it was and how comprehensive it was. It was not just the school's own force, right, that was responding but from the surrounding areas. How important was that, do you think, in this particular instance and what does it tell us?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think it is always critical, because you don't know if the gunman is going to still be on the scene, but you have got two missions there, and a lot of the times, we have seen them split or lost. Mission one is stop the killing. Find the shooter. Eliminate the threat. But mission two, and this is the complicated part, is to stop the dying.

So, we are very used to these situations where they may have the suspect barricaded or they're searching the building for the gunman and they have it all cordoned off, but medical people can't get in because it is still the hot zone. They responded, determined that the gunman had fled on foot. They sent the units out to hunt for the gunman and then they immediately shifted into what they call RTF, rescue task force, and that's taking armed police and medical personnel into the building, finding wounded, finding injured, finding people in need of critical care, and getting them out immediately.

There was a unified command set up at the president's house where all of the commanders were. There were staging areas for the ambulances that had more ambulances than they would need, and it was very organized and very quick. And it was clear that the Michigan State University Police, the state police, the East Lansing Police and the Lansing P.D. had all practiced this before.

SCIUTTO: John Miller, you and I have been talking about mass shootings for 20 years. And the police have been training and learning, adjusting their tactics and the police response was enormous here brave, no question, but who still managed to kill three people and critically injured five more students who are fighting for their lives right now. You have the advantage of not only been in the news business but been in the law enforcement business. What single change would make the most difference to make these kinds of shootings less likely and less deadly?

MILLER: Well, there wouldn't be a single change. It would be the -- there are -- a number of these were mental health issues in a system that is too weak to provide continued services or early intervention becomes apparent. We don't know that yet in this case. We will be peeling back those layers with authorities in the investigation in the days to come.

But then simple things, the assault weapons ban was allowed to sunset, access to firearms, here is an individual who had a felony gun possession arrest that was pleaded down to a misdemeanor, which -- and we are still backtracking through that, which because he is not a convicted felon could have made him eligible to legally possess firearms. So, it would be a multi-level approach. And all of these approaches receive resistance. The gun one, we know well, and the mental health one is a growing challenge.

HILL: Challenges, but it does not mean that we can't continue the discussion and maybe hope at some point there is some action, right? John Miller, I always appreciate your insight, your expertise. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, this hour, the Senate is receiving a classified intelligence briefing on the three unidentified objects that the military shot down just this weekend. The Pentagon now says that one of those objects has been identified as a small metallic balloon with a tethered payload hanging below it.

HILL: CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox joining us live from Capitol Hill, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Oren Liebermann also with us.

Lauren, let's begin with you there on the hill, senators receiving that briefing right now. What more do we expect to learn? I realize there is only a certain amount they can say coming out of that, but were they hopeful going into it that it would be substantive?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To be quite frank with you, Erica, I talked with one senator, Chris Coons, who was headed to that briefing, and the expectations are fairly low that lawmakers are going to be getting much insight or new insights from this briefing today, and in part that is because there are questions about how much the administration actually knows at this point. What can the administration really provide them if they still have questions about these objects that were shot down?

Here is what Mike Rounds said earlier this morning to our own Kaitlan Collins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I think we've all got a pretty good understanding of what it may be, but we don't know the details. And so if they want to stick to the program of we have taken them out and we know where they're at, we're going to give you the details as soon as we get them.

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Then I'm prepared to accept that because that's the best data we can get.

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FOX: And I also checked in with Rounds as he was headed to that briefing. He said that he is understanding and sympathetic to the administration, that they're still trying to gather more information. But he says, as quickly as they have it, they need to be giving it and providing to lawmakers. There's also an unclassified briefing for House members who are right now on recess outside of Washington, D.C. Jim and Jim?

SCIUTTO: Oren, we are learning more now about the operations that took these devices down. Tell us what we know?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Specifically, we are learning more about the third operation in this case, the one on Sunday, where the F-16 fighter jets were launched to take down an object over Lake Huron. One of those F-16s fired an AIM-9X heat- seeking sidewinder missile, and as we learned from U.S. officials familiar with the operation, missed on the first shot, forcing the F- 16s to fire a second shot to take down that object over Lake Huron.

We are also learning more about the recovery efforts in this case. And those seemed to be going in different directions. First, a defense officials tells us that a significant portion of the object off the coast of South Carolina has been recovered from about 50 feet of water, including much of the electronics and the structure. So, that recovery effort is going well, although it is hampered by some of the difficult seas there and some of the sea conditions.

In the other case, a senior administration official tells CNN this morning it may not be possible to recover the objects down on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and that's challenging because that was what the administration pointed to as the moment we'll learn more about these objects that may not be possible to get a definitive answer without recovery.

SCIUTTO: And they are much smaller than the one that was taken down off South Carolina. Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, Lauren Fox on the Hill, thanks so much.

Joining us now to speak about all this, former CIA Analyst Christopher Johnson, he is now president and CEO of China Strategies Group. Mr. Johnson, thanks for taking the time this morning.

CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CHINA STRATEGIES GROUP: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: First, I wonder if you could talk about the threat of escalation, because you now have China threatening to shoot down what it says are U.S. surveillance balloons over its territory. U.S. denies it has any over its territory, but the U.S. does fly a heck of surveillance aircraft around Chinese airspace. Are we looking at a situation here superpowers are going to be shooting at superpowers?

JOHNSON: Well, it is certainly a potential risk. I mean, I think one of the things we have to think about is, of course, the Chinese balloon operation violated U.S. airspace. Yes, and the U.S. does conduct all of those surveillance operations around Chinese territory but not directly certainly over the Chinese mainland and not even really in China's 12 nautical mile territorial air and seas areas.

This has been a subject of contention obviously in the bilateral relationship for a long time. I would say that the balloon episode certainly incentivizes the Chinese to start looking harder for other platforms that the U.S. might have directly over flying the mainland or nearby, and incentivizes them to potentially try to take one of those down.

HILL: And we've seen, right, it has incentivized the U.S. to change the way that it is looking at the skies, as we learned over the weekend in a brief that was just saying, part of what we're finding is we're looking for things more closely. Could it also potentially, though, have a negative impact and what do you see is that negative impact in terms of surveillance capabilities?

JOHNSON: Well, I certainly think that one of the questions that we have in the U.S. case is are we getting what we might call almost sort of false positives here in the sense that, as you mentioned, by opening up the apertures of the filters, right, of how we are looking at the radar data, we are seeing more things than we had in the past, and decisions are being made to take them down.

The problem then becomes, as we just heard, that if you can't recover these things, you can't really figure out what they are about. And we run into a sense that we wind up sort of chasing our tails to a certain degree, going after things that may not have any nefarious intent at all.

SCIUTTO: China has lost at least one surveillance balloon, a large one off the coast of South Carolina. It's seen what the Pentagon says is a broader intelligence gathering program exposed to the public, and it lost a summit that apparently the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, wanted with Antony Blinken. Is this whole mess a strategic loss for China?

JOHNSON: It's starting to feels that way on a number of fronts. Number one, as you said, we certainly lost an opportunity both leaders very carefully have been trying to craft some means since their meeting in Bali, Indonesia, in November last year to put a floor under this relationship. And in that respect, I think the balloon serves as sort of a symptom rather than the disease. In other words, it tells us how difficult it will be given the underlying tensions in the bilateral relationship that are not being resolved to try to move toward that position in terms of creating a floor, if you will, to better stabilize relations, which obviously U.S. allies and partners want to see and those same countries where China is trying to court them, they want to see that from the Chinese side as well.

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So, that's all very important.

In terms of strategic blunder, I think you could say, as we were just discussing, one of the things that's happening here is all of a sudden that incident has caused a lot of pressure to be put on the U.S. military with regard to this whole issue around UAPs or these unidentified aerial projectiles, and this has been going on now for several years. So, in other words, does this cause a response from the U.S. to improve our surveillance technology and also our depleted munitions stocks? That would certainly be a loss for China.

SCIUTTO: I am glad you said UAPs instead of UFOs, by the way, given all the speculation thrown out there in the midst of this. Christopher Johnson, thanks so much.

JOHNSON: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, inflation still hot last month though some prices are cooling down. What that means already from food prices to mortgage rates.

HILL: Plus, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley making it official, she is, in fact, running for president. So, what the impact tossing her hat in the ring could have on not only the former president but also what could become a fairly crowded Republican primary.

And right now, the defense secretary and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs are answering questions in Brussels as NATO leaders meet to make critical decisions about military aid for Ukraine.

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SCIUTTO: This morning on Wall Street, well, now the stocks are up a little bit, this after a key inflation report showed that prices grew slightly more than expected last month. Investors worried January's consumer price index means that more painful rate hikes are ahead, as the Federal Reserve continues to try to tackle inflation.

Joining me now, Jeanna Smialek, she's Federal Reserve and Economy Reporter for The New York Times. Jeanna, good to have you back on.

JEANNA SMIALEK, FEDERAL RESERVE AND ECONOMY REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thanks for having me. SCIUTTO: All right. So, look at these numbers, actually down year-to- year if you compare January numbers to January a year ago, but up month-to-month if you compare December to January prices. What does that mean for the longer term trend in prices? Flattening or still going down?

SMIALEK: Yes. I think the critical thing is down but not down nearly as much as we expected not down nearly as much as you would hope if you were as the Fed is currently trying to get inflation back towards some kind of normal. It is 6.4 percent over the past year. That is really fast relative to the sort of the 2 percent that we are typically used to.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Okay. So, then, of course, attention will be on the next Fed meeting, would have been anyway, the most recent one, they raised rates only a quarter percentage point, having followed a number of three quarter percent rises. I'm not going to ask you to look at the minds of those Federal Reserve governors, but are the markets or others looking at this and saying they are going to have to tick up the size of those rate increases?

SMIALEK: Most of the economists that I'm talking to this morning are saying that rather than increase the size of the rate increases they're going to do, they're more likely to do more rate increases. So, probably stick with the sort of quarter point per meeting, patient gradual steady pace and perhaps go up further than they had previously expected to, which would over the long run sort of weigh on the economy, slow it down more drastically. But we do it in a more gentle way than sort of just rapid increases.

SCIUTTO: I will ask you every time we come on what the more general view now is on a soft landing from those rate increases versus the chances of a hard landing or dipping into a recession.

SMIALEK: Right. So, increasingly, we are hearing economists talk about the scenario that is no landing, which is basically means that we just haven't seen much of a response in the economy from all of these rate increases yet. We still have a very low unemployment rate, the lowest since 1969, the wages are growing rapidly, we're seeing this inflation slow down a little bit but it's not slowing down as much as we expected. We are just not seeing the cracking in the economy that people had anticipated at this stage, and I think it remains to be seen when that will go up.

SCIUTTO: And is the job market still strong because, again, you see some contrast, right, between some headline job losses, particularly the big tech companies, et cetera, while the overall figures remain quite strong? I mean, it's a bit of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde kind of job market right now. Well, what is the actual picture from an economist standpoint?

SMIALEK: I think those tech numbers are really giving you a head fake when you look at the overall job market. So, if you look at initial jobless rates, which I think are probably pretty much the best reading you can get on the job market on a regular basis, and they are so very low. We're still seeing very low unemployment. We're still seeing really -- we saw more than half a million job gains in the last report. And so it overall just looks like a very robust job market. And I think it is important to remember that technology is just one very tiny sector in the broader economy.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And people are at work literally right behind you as we've been speaking there. So, maybe that is a good sign about the job market. Jeanna Smialek, thanks so much.

SMIALEK: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, soon, grieving families and activists, they are going to be on Capitol Hill for hearing on teen suicide and social media.

HILL: And it comes as the CDC says that teens here in the United States have experienced record high levels of violence and suicide risk in recent years.

CNN Anchor Brianna Keilar is live on Capitol Hill this morning. So, Brianna, I know you spoke with one of the women who will be testifying. What is she going to say today?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that's right, guys. I spoke with Kristin Bride, who will testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee today. She lost her son, Carson, in 2020 after he was cyberbullied on an app that worked with Snapchat and allowed people to harass him anonymously online.

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He died by suicide after that happened.

And she is going to be here today making the case for herself, for many parents. She has a growing number of parents who have lost kids to this kind of issue. She's going to be making the case that this isn't just about free speech, that these are media companies, social media companies that are monetizing a product, that they are doing this at the expense, they are making money off the engagement of young people who are uniquely vulnerable to the mental health risks that social media engagement, in some cases, brings with it. We caught up with Kristin Bride before this testimony.

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KRISTIN BRIDE, LOST SON TO SUICIDE DUE TO CYBERBULLYING: I woke up to horror that he had hung himself in our garage while we slept. And there are no words to describe the tragedy of that morning and every day afterwards.

I think that there is really a level of helplessness especially from the parents who are trying to keep their kids safe online.

I really want the committee to see the face, the personal tragedy that is a result of these social media companies being completely unregulated. We need help from the federal government and we need it now.

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KEILAR: This testimony today, Erica and Jim, really coming at a crisis point when we are talking about mental health for young people in the U.S. A new CDC report out showing that one in three teen girls said that they had considered attempting suicide. It also showed from the survey conducted in 2021, one in five gay and bisexual teens said they actually had attempted in the year prior to being surveyed.

So, obviously very sensitive but important issues that we're dealing with here today, and I do want to direct our viewers to the crisis and suicide hotline number on the screen, 9-8-8, something everyone should know.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. And so important, so difficult, but even more reason then for us to make sure that we are talking about it, and that it is top of mind. Brianna, I really appreciate it, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Yes, 9-8-8, those are the numbers and those poor, poor, poor parents.

Well, still ahead, former South Carolina Republican Governor Nikki Haley, she is running. She has announced her 2024 bid for the White House. We are going to take a closer look at her campaign, coming up.

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