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3 Students Dead, 5 Critically Wounded In Campus Mass Shooting; Biden Marks Five Years Since Parkland Shooting; Sr Biden Official: Debris From Downed Objects Mat Not Be Recovered. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 14, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, thank you for being with us. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

We begin in Michigan where we just learned the identities of two of the three victims from last night's shooting on the campus of Michigan State University. Brian Fraser was a sophomore, and Alexandria Verner was a junior. Five additional students are hospitalized in critical condition. And we know that four of them needed immediate surgery. Now, shortly after 8:00 p.m., 911 calls began to come in to report that a gunman had opened fire in a classroom at Berkeley Hall, then the student union as well.

BLACKWELL: Police have named the suspect, 43-year-old Anthony McRae. He was killed by a self-inflicted gunshot wound. But he was identified by a tipster shortly after police sent out this surveillance photo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS ROZMAN, INTERIM DEPUTY CHIEF, MSU POLICE AND PUBLIC SAFETY: We have absolutely no idea what the motive was at this point. We can confirm that the 43-year-old suspect had no affiliation to the university. He was not a student, faculty, staff, current or previous, so that's an unknown right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The suspect was living nearby with his father in Lansing. And that father spoke to CNN by phone and said this. Ever since my wife died, my son began to change. He was getting more and more bitter, angry, and bitter. So angry. Evil angry. He began to really let himself go. His teeth were falling out. He stopped cutting his hair. He looked like a wolf man.

CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller is following this story for us, learning some details as well. What are your thoughts about what we've learned so far about this suspect?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, we're learning in small bits today, but one key thing is the letter that was found in the backpack at the time he shot himself. This is a two-page document rambling. It doesn't make complete sense on first reading, but he talks about being angry. He talks about wanting to finish off Lansing. He makes no mention of Michigan State University or the target. He refers to other active shooter cases, one in Colorado, talks about shooting schools in New Jersey says there's 20 of me out there.

So, it's a letter that blends some dysfunction, some anger, and some of his own -- some of his own thoughts and disconnection from reality. But it tells us -- if you combine it with what we learned from the father, it tells us this is someone who was -- who was getting more and more unhinged. The backpack, on the other hand, tells us multiple magazines, lots of ammunition, a second weapon that he went out prepared to shoot many more or much more than he did or he was on his way to a second location, and that, we will never know.

GOLODRYGA: So, no direct connection that we know of yet to the Michigan State University but a note was found in his pocket and he indicated a threat to two Ewing public schools in Ewing Township, New Jersey. What are your sources telling you about any threats or known threats to those schools?

MILLER: So, there are none. This is probably in his dark fantasy about there being 20 of him. But he's also probably reaching back as far as we can trace him. He seems to be from the Trenton area. He's probably reaching back into his past and picking targets. But again, from a threat standpoint, while they're acting in an abundance of caution notifying those schools and New Jersey authorities, their assessment is there is no threat there.

GOLODRYGA: I mean, here we are again though, another mass shooting. We know this person had a history of mental illness, at least according to his father. And again, access to so much weaponry and ammunition.

MILLER: It's interesting on the purchase that he was able to purchase these guns himself in 2021 despite a limited criminal background.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: John Miller, thank you.

Well, my next guess is a student at Michigan State University, Logan Feleo. Logan, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so sorry for what you and your community went through and are currently experiencing right now. Where were you last night in terms of relations to campus?

LOGAN FELEO, STUDENT, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: So, I was at work at Landshark bar, which is directly across the street from the Union building, by north of Grand River. So, I was directly outside when the shooting occurred.

GOLODRYGA: And when did you first hear about the shooting or have a sense that something was wrong?

FELEO: So, we down there were hearing like rumors almost from other people that there was something going on. We quickly then received an e-mail from Michigan State University saying there was an active shooter on campus. At that time, we then investigate and lock the doors up front.

[14:05:17]

GOLODRYGA: And you had security there at the bar, and I know that they were filling you in real-time on what they were hearing. So, did you, yourself receive that message that read run, hide, fight?

FELEO: Yes, I did from Michigan State University.

GOLODRYGA: What went through your mind when you got that message?

FELEO: I was shocked honestly. It's somebody you don't know -- you don't know how to handle. You really don't. You can do this and do that but it doesn't change the fact it was happening.

GOLODRYGA: And what were you hearing from the students that were coming into the bar?

FELEO: That everyone was scared and nervous. We have a few people come in that were present at the Union and they were just really concerned, really worried, obviously, for everyone's safety.

GOLODRYGA: Have you ever felt unsafe on the university campus?

FELEO: Not really. No. It's -- the police does a good job. We did have a scare last year over Halloween break, but that got resolved. They were pleased. We're very good about that. But I feel safe on campus normally.

GOLODRYGA: What year are you?

FELEO: I am a sophomore -- a second year.

GOLODRYGA: I know that some of these students had been in class in the evening and I'm just curious as to whether these buildings that housed these classes require any sort of badge, ID to come in, or can anyone just walk into the buildings?

FELEO: So, in most of those academic buildings as it like Berkeley or the Union, you do not need any like badge or anything to get in. In the residential halls, you do need our student IDs to get in. But those academic buildings where the shootings occurred, it's open to the public until a certain time when it closes.

GOLODRYGA: Do you think in light of these shootings that needs to change in order to make students like yourself feel safer?

FELEO: A hundred percent. Do you -- we see this across the country happening, so yes, I think -- do think something has to change. GOLODRYGA: Well, Logan, I appreciate your time. Again, I'm so sorry for what you and your peers had to experience and I'm sure your parents were relieved to hear that you were OK. Thank you for joining us.

BLACKWELL: Well, students are reeling from this most recent school shooting five years to the day of another shooting. 17 students were killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. President Biden spoke about the tragedy just a few minutes ago.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And today marks five years -- five years to the day that 14 students and three educators lost their lives in Parkland, Florida. I met every one of those families, spend time with them all. And a lot of you here have to confront violence in your communities every single day. We took a big step toward passing the most significant bipartisan gun legislation to 30 years, ghost guns and other things, background checks, but there's a lot more work to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Aalayah Eastmond survived that shooting. She is now the co- founder of Brady Campaign's Team Enough program. Aalayah, thank you for being with me. There have now been more mass shootings in 2023 than there have been days so sadly, it was more likely than not that there would have been a mass shooting yesterday. But I wonder what went through your mind when you heard coming up on the five-year remembrance of the shooting in Parkland but there was another school mass shooting. What did you think first?

AALAYAH EASTMOND, PARKLAND SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Honestly, I'm just going through a lot of emotions. I feel a sense of numbness, a sense of anger, frustration, confusion as to how and why we are still dealing with this issue of gun violence in this country. Five years ago, I almost lost my life in school. And yesterday, more young people lost their life to this issue of gun violence in college. So right now, I'm just -- I can't even focus on the emotions that I'm feeling from my own personal experience because I'm so sad that so many other communities are dealing with this issue every single day.

BLACKWELL: We have watched so many of these school shootings in the five years between Parkland and East Lansing, now what happened at Michigan State University last night? I wonder with all the work that you're doing, the Change The Ref and March For Our Lives, all these organizations, if students are any safer in schools than they were five years ago?

EASTMOND: Honestly, no. Students are not safer. If anything, students are even more at risk for the issue of gun violence. For example, in states like Florida, we have people like Ron DeSantis who are focusing on making criminalists carry a thing while taking away books from students in schools.

[14:10:09] We see legislators focus on things that are not as important when the leading cause of death in this country for young people right now is gun violence. So, you know, the work that we're doing is not going unnoticed, but we have noticed that young people are still disproportionately impacted by the issue of gun violence.

BLACKWELL: You're in DC for the Never Again tour, which is to mark the five years since the Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooting with other survivors -- victims' families. This obviously was planned before the shooting that happened last night. I wonder what you think is possible legislatively now that you're bringing this mission to Washington with what we've seen in the change in leadership in controlling the House?

EASTMOND: Absolutely. Right now, we know that assault weapons ban is number one on the top of the list. Most Americans agree that no individual needs a weapon of war or high-capacity magazines for that matter. We need things like red flag laws across the country. We need resources and communities that lack mental health access or resources in schools for students. So, there's a lot that people in positions of power can do, but they choose to turn their heads and close their eyes to the issue of gun violence.

BLACKWELL: But in this environment, with the new leadership in the House, an assault weapons ban is highly unlikely. Are there elements that you think are more likely to get through Congress and get to this president's desk? I know there's a lot of work that's happening on the state level in some areas, but federally, do you think there are maybe one or two that can happen?

EASTMOND: Absolutely. For me, personally, I will continue to push for resources in our impoverished communities across the country. It's important to really listen to individuals from specific communities like Brooklyn, Chicago, Birmingham, even Broward County, Florida. But really and truly, we really need to invest more money into our communities.

We need to invest more money into our young people, making sure that they have resources to talk about the issues that they might be dealing with, evidently, probably, is gun violence. So, we need to make sure that we have resources in their schools to talk about their mental health. We might need to make sure that they have access to proper education and all these things that will make life better.

BLACKWELL: You're five years out now from surviving a massacre at your high school, the students at Michigan State University are on day one, what is coming for them in the next few weeks or months as they tried to heal from what happened last night?

EASTMOND: Absolutely. A journey -- the journey of healing is different for everyone, especially in the lens of something as traumatic and unexpected as this. Honestly, in the first weeks of me surviving the shooting at my high school, I was super reserved to myself and didn't want to speak out. But I found power and advocacy -- and healing in advocacy, so really, I just want to send my love and support to all of the young people that you know, just experienced this horrific tragedy but just to stay strong in these upcoming days and just to stay with your community. Being with your community and healing together is really how you get through something like this.

BLACKWELL: Aalayah Eastmond, co-founder of the Brady Campaign's Team Enough program. Aalayah, thank you so much for your time.

EASTMOND: Thank you so much for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Think about what we just heard. Students advising students on how to cope with shootings -- mass shootings in schools. I mean, we're doing something wrong what -- with students.

BLACKWELL: And it goes from one generation down to the next. Remember, Columbine was in 1999, right?

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: So, they now have high school students or schools -- students in middle schools who now go through these drills. This is a generational challenge that this country goes through that no other country America is through.

GOLODRYGA: It's a uniquely American -- it's a uniquely American tragedy and we're failing our children. There's no other way to describe it.

Well, there are new challenges in the recovery of the three unidentified objects shootdown over the weekend, all while senators get a classified briefing. We'll speak with one of those lawmakers next.

BLACKWELL: Plus, the latest inflation numbers are out and while prices were still hot in January, there are some signs that things are cooling down. What this means for recession concerns?

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[14:18:16]

BLACKWELL: A senior official from the Biden administration says the U.S. and Canada may never be able to recover the debris from the three mysterious objects the U.S. shot down from the skies over the weekend. The White House says the leading theory is that they were benign balloons.

GOLODRYGA: Today, senators received a classified briefing on the national security issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-SC): I'm confident this wasn't a -- you know an attack on the country. But then I think it probably served the country well to have the president explain what's going on.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, (D-CT): I am not in any way afraid that we are under a threat of attack or physical harm to our homeland. That's my personal feeling. But the American people need to be reassured with more facts. SEN. TOM COTTON, (R-AR): We learned nothing that I didn't already know as a member of the Intelligence Committee and our service committee, over that matter that one couldn't learn from reading your newspapers and watching your news channels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann has the latest and joins us now. So, Oren, why can't whatever is left of these objects be recovered? Is it just because of the difficulty in getting to it and the terrain?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. The first two of these last three objects that we're talking about the one shot down on Friday, 10 miles off the coast of northern Alaska, and the one shot down in the Yukon Territory in Canada are in incredibly remote areas, very difficult to get to and given the time of year, very difficult weather to deal with. So, that makes those very difficult to recover, obviously. And the third object, the one shot down on Sunday, just a few hours before the Super Bowl, in fact, may well be at the bottom of Lake Huron. So, that has its own challenges in recovery.

There's a bigger issue here. And that's the White House and the administration had pretty much said until now that the definitive answers about what this was or what these were and where they came from could only come when these objects were recovered and studied in depth.

[14:20:05]

Now, they say that might not happen. In the absence of that, they've put out what they consider their leading theory and saying these were benign objects that were essentially balloons and there was no harm there. That briefing -- or that theory seems to be put forward by members of the Senate who have gotten a briefing a short time ago on what was going on here, even if there is some frustration with transparency. But just a short time ago, earlier today, the top U.S. general is saying we may never see these objects that were down over the course of the last few days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: They're in very difficult terrain. The second one off the coast of Alaska is -- that's up in some really, really difficult terrain in the Arctic Circle, with very, very low temperatures in the minus 40s. The second one is in the color -- in the Canadian Rockies in Yukon, very difficult to get that one. And the third one is in Lake Huron, it is probably a couple of hundred feet in depth. So, we'll get them eventually but it's going to take some time to recover those.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIEBERMANN: Many of the senators who came out of the briefing say they were good -- they say that it was good to get more information from the administration, even if some were frustrated by lack of transparency, and said that quite a lot of what they heard inside a classified briefing consistently be told to the public. But that's where we stand at this point, recovery efforts are ongoing even if the administration acknowledges they may not be in the end successful to find out what exactly these objects were. Meanwhile, in the case of the Chinese surveillance balloon, a significant portion of that has been recovered as the FBI begins its analysis there on what the U.S. has said is a Chinese surveillance balloon, looking at what it was capable of doing.

BLACKWELL: Oren Liebermann for us there at the Pentagon. Thank you, Oren.

Joining us now Democratic senator from Michigan, Gary Peters, who chairs the Homeland Security Committee. Senator, thank you for being with me. Let's start here with the characterization from the White House that the leading theory is that these were benign balloons. Based on what you heard today, are you as certain that these presented no threat that they were benign?

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Well, it's a -- it certainly is the leading theory right now. And you know, one thing though was very clear that I -- want us to be public is that they did not believe that these objects had any weapons, and were any kind of threat to anybody in the United States. There was no, as they say, kinetic, there was not going to be any kind of explosions or bombs on it, so -- and that's what at least the pilots were assessing who were checking out these objects.

But the main reason for their concern was their altitude. They're in an altitude that could present a real hazard to commercial aircraft that are operating in that space. And there's no question if a -- if a jet would hit that object and could have serious consequences in that navigation. So, that was the decision for a while to bring them down.

But clearly, we're not going to know exactly -- it was clear, we're not going to know exactly what they were until or if we are able to recover any of the debris. And that's looking very difficult. In my state in Michigan, in Lake Huron, you know, Lake Huron is basically an inland sea. It's incredibly deep. And if it's gone down to the bottom, it's not going to be an easy task to get down there to take a look at what exactly made up this object that was neutralized.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and we just heard the description of the content -- the conditions there of how cold the water is, where some of this debris is. But so, the question of whether these were benign if they have not been collected and potentially will never be collected, how can there be a leading theory on what these were if you don't know what the payload on this first and second objects these balloons were?

PETERS: Yes. We -- and that's why you really have to recover the debris to know that if there was a payload. There's you know also some question as to whether or not there was even a payload on the object that was shot down over Lake Huron. And that's going to be some visual evidence. We were frustrated -- I was certainly frustrated not to get more information as to exactly what did the pilots see, what was their description, videos taken, why haven't we -- why don't we have an opportunity to see some of those to judge for ourselves? And again, a better sense of what exactly we're dealing with here? That information, I think, is very important and people certainly have the right to know.

BLACKWELL: Senator Cotton said that he didn't learn much more than he's seeing on television or reading in newspapers or online. Did you get more -- much more than we know that's in public reporting right now?

PETERS: Well, there was some information, basically how systems work. And that's very classified. People should not know how surveillance systems work and sensors. And that information was certainly provided, I thought -- I found that very helpful to understand what tools are being used to evaluate objects that's fairly clearly classified and needs to be protected. And certainly, that was provided.

BLACKWELL: Is there any more information that you learn then that is public right now about ownership, origin, any connection between one of these objects and the others?

[14:25:03]

PETERS: No. There was no information. And certainly, it didn't appear like there were markings, or of any kind, at least that were shared with us in the briefing as to where that may have come from, if it was commercial, whether there were -- there are any markings related to that. None of that was very clear. But that's why it's important for us to have a chance to take a look at any images were taken of these objects. And that was not provided to us today.

BLACKWELL: Is it time for the president to speak to the American people about this?

PETERS: Well, there's certainly been an awful lot of talk about it, people are concerned about it, and --

BLACKWELL: What do you think?

PETERS: Well, I think after we get more information, if there's more information to glean, if the president should certainly let people know why we shot down three objects, it is a -- it is certainly a concern for folks. And transparency is always a good thing.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you finally. You, not only the senator from Michigan, you're a Michigan State alumnus. We've been talking about this mass shooting that happened, three students killed, three students injured, the gunman took his own life. Just your thoughts on what happened there at that campus as we confront gun violence, especially at schools?

PETERS: Oh, my God. Yes, it's horrific. As I got news yesterday and talking to officials, just a horrifying situation that students found themselves with a gunman that opened up going across campus. It is absolutely horrifying. And as students were locked down and parents were scrambling to try to reach their students to find out whether or not they're safe, it is -- it was clearly a nightmare that none of us ever want to confront and unfortunately, many, many folks had to confront that last night.

So, you know, I just have -- like, I think most people, certainly, our hearts go out to those families that have been impacted. But there's also just anger. We can't let this continues to happen. We can cap -- let our schools be subjected to these horrible acts of violence. You know about 15 months ago, we had -- Oxford high school had a shooting that traumatized students there. And many of those students are actually attending Michigan State University now. And once again, they went through another mass shooting at a place where they should feel safe at their school. And that's not happening.

We need to take action. We need to move forward. I'm hoping certainly the state legislature will likely take some action on a number of gun safety pieces of legislation that should move forward. I support things like red flag laws. I support making sure we have -- we close the loopholes when it comes to background checks. We're still trying to find out more about this perpetrator, this -- the person who was engaged in the shooting to find out exactly what possible motive he could have. I don't know what that would be or what his weapons were.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

PETERS: But regardless, we know that gun violence is endemic in our society. We have to step up. We have to take action.

BLACKWELL: Yes. But sadly, the students now some of them living through their second mass shooting at school as you said. It's an -- it's pitiful and pretty embarrassing that our students have to go through this. Senator Gary Peters of Michigan, thank you.

PETERS: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Mike Pence is expected to fight a subpoena from the special counsel that is investigating former President Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. We'll discuss, up next.

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