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Senior Biden Official: Debris From Downed Objects May Not Be Recovered; Rep. Austin Scott (R-GA) Discusses About His Take On Downing Of Flying Objects; 3 Students Dead, 5 Critically Wounded In Campus Mass Shooting; Turkey Rescuers Say Voices Still Being Heard Under Rubble. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 14, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:50]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: (Inaudible) hour on CNN NEWSROOM. It is good to have you along. I'm Victor Blackwell.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

"Benign balloons," that is the leading theory on what three mystery objects shot out of the skies could be according to the White House. But a senior official from the Biden administration admits the U.S. and Canada may never be able to recover the debris from the objects which all flew at an altitude of 40,000 feet or lower.

Joint Chiefs Chairman Mark Milley said remnants from each object fell into very hard to reach areas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Very, very difficult terrain. The second one off the coast of Alaska is - that's up in some really, really difficult terrain in the Arctic Circle with very, very low temperatures in the minus 40s. The second one is in the Canadian Rockies and Yukon, very difficult to get that one.

BLACKWELL: The General said the debris from the third object shot down over Lake Huron landed in 100 feet of water. Officials say it's likely on the Canadian side. Now, today senators received a classified briefing on the unidentified flying objects and Senators from both parties were asking that the President share more. Sen. Marco Rubio said similar objects have been seen in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Ninety-five percent of what was discussed in that room today can be made public without compromising the security of this country. I reiterate that we know that the spy balloon was from China, so put that one aside. The other three instances, as they are described, both publicly and in there are not new.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: CNN White House Correspondent Jeremy Diamond is here.

So the White House briefing just started, what is the latest from the White House on these objects?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, we know that the U.S. and Canadian officials are still working to try and recover the debris from these three objects that were down between Friday and Sunday. The questions about whether they will actually be able to recover any of those debris is still looming, but the White House is now offering what they say is the leading theory from intelligence officials and that is that these three of balloons were most likely a benign or for commercial purposes. Here's the White House Press Secretary just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Intelligence Community did say that they are considering or looking at this to be potentially benign. But, of course, we want to make sure that we get the objects so we can actually or the debris from the objects, just to be more clear, so we can get a sense of what the objects were for certain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And that was a message that we also heard earlier in the day from the National Security Council Spokesman, John Kirby, who made clear that officials are really hoping that they can recover these debris because they believe that they can learn a lot more about these objects if they are indeed able to recover them and then inspect them as was the case with, of course, that Chinese balloon that was flying at a much, much higher altitude, and which was down to over the coast - over the coast of the Atlantic Ocean.

Now, we did see some of these senators come out of this classified briefing that they received earlier today. The overwhelming sense that we got from the senators was that they were certainly reassured by the fact that these objects did not pose a threat to the American people, but there are still some of the senators, both Republicans and Democrats who say that they would like to hear more from the administration. And they'd also like to hear the administration be more forthcoming with the public about what they know and that includes hearing directly from President Biden.

So far, White House officials have indicated that President Biden is not speaking about this yet, in part, because there is still so much to still learn about these objects. And, of course, there are just kind of broader questions about exactly what the protocol is for downing these objects in the future. We know that one of the potential reasons why these objects were discovered is because U.S. Military officials widen the aperture of some of their radar systems to be able to actually detect these slower moving and smaller objects.

So again, the reason why we may be seeing these could be because of some of those radar changes, but still a lot of questions this administration very much still in the fact gathering mode but questions and answers still being looked for by the public, Victor? Bianna?

[15:05:09]

BLACKWELL: Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: And with me now is Republican Congressman Austin Scott of Georgia. He is a member of the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, great to see you.

So as we just heard there, senators were briefed and the majority of them seemed reassured that these objects do not pose a threat to the U.S. public. But there were some who differed and we heard from Sen. Rubio and also Hawley saying that they needed to hear from the President and they were not reassured that there were no threats from these objects to the American public. From your purview, where do you stand on this issue?

REP. AUSTIN SCOTT (R-GA): Well, I think the sooner that we get the information on the balloons and the sooner we declassify it everything that can be declassified on it the better off we as the American citizens and the American public will be. So if they're benign, we need to make sure that the American citizens know that and if they're not benign like the Chinese spy balloon, then we need to make sure the American citizens understand what China is continuing to do to our country.

GOLODRYGA: Well, it may be a while until we can find the remnants of these objects as you heard there in the reporting specifically because of just how far they are and the difficulty in getting to the location, the difficult terrain there and the weather. So are you saying that you don't take the administration at their word that they're likely benign, because it may be a long time before we actually find them and get conclusive answers?

SCOTT: Oh, no, no, no, I'm not here to blame the current administration or previous administrations. I mean, this is a very serious issue that the United States is facing. The first balloon, the Chinese balloon, the spy balloon, if you will, is a very serious issue and a threat to the United States of America. It is a continuing effort by China to defeat the United States and all aspects, whether it be military or economically.

And so if the other balloons were benign, then as soon as we know that for sure, we need to release that to the American citizens and we need to go back and focus on the one that was not benign, and talk - and remind the American citizens that whether it be TikTok or fentanyl or the weapon systems that China's developing, they don't call them the bear strike, they call them eagle strike and you can guess who the eagle is, that's all of us as Americans, especially those of us who are serving our country and so China is our enemy.

And I'll tell you, Bianna, it's going to take all of Americans working together to defeat the threat of China and make sure that we don't go to war with them. I was a little taken aback this week with the fact that less than two weeks, China literally flew a flat - a spy balloon over the United States of America and then Ford Motor Company, Bill Ford announces that Ford is going to get a team with China to develop batteries.

And that's the kind of thing that we can't have as Americans. We can't have corporate America going to the other side to develop their technology and build their vehicles.

GOLODRYGA: So how do you explain that, because I understand - and listen, you get the consensus from both sides of the aisle on this issue that it is very difficult to decouple economically from China, and that a lot of Americans, whether it's their jobs or just the overall economy, depend on goods manufactured there. So how do you explain to your public about these jobs that you would like to see at some point really curtailed from being sent there?

SCOTT: Look, I mean, the purpose of the legislation that was passed, and I'm a Republican, I didn't vote for the legislation, and this is the problem with not taking legislation through the actual committee process where you get to talk about the potential changes that need to be made to it. But I don't think that my colleagues that I served with on the House Armed Services Committee intended for Chinese technology to be eligible for U.S. tax credits or for Ford to partner with the Chinese Communist Party to be eligible for tax credits.

So I think it would be wise for industry, that is moving ahead with the Chinese Communist Party to understand that legislation can be passed and actually changes the way that tax code is written. And I'll tell you, as someone who's on the Armed Services Committee, the idea that we would allow Chinese battery technology on our military installations, that's just not in the best interests of the U.S. citizens.

GOLODRYGA: Well, the United States has also implemented export controls as well regarding chips ...

SCOTT: Sure.

GOLODRYGA: ... and along the same - the lines that that you're speaking. Just quickly because you are on the House Intel Committee, the House Chairman there, Mike Turner, over the weekend said that he was pleased to see a trigger-happy Biden administration, I guess, shoot at these objects that had been flying over U.S. territory and Canada. Is that a policy that you would sign off on, just shoot it whatever is flying over the United States, especially knowing that our radars and our technology have improved as such that we can actually see them better.

[15:10:04]

SCOTT: Yes. I actually - I agree with Mike on this and I think most of the members of the Intelligence Committee are going to be on the same page in working with the administration to make sure that we're able to gather all the intelligence that we can off of the balloons or whatever other device it may be, and then make sure that we're protecting the American citizens while at the same time gathering all of the intelligence.

And then I do think that you'll see an effort from, I think both parties, to declassify more information faster on these issues so that the American citizens have the facts.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Congressman Austin Scott, thank you for your time.

SCOTT: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: We're learning more about this suspected gunman who killed three students at Michigan State University last night. His father described him as evil angry. What else he's revealing about his son, that's next.

GOLODRYGA: Also ahead, incredible stories of survival. More than a week since the devastating earthquake hit Turkey and Syria, responders are still pulling people out of the rubble alive.

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[15:15:07]

GOLODRYGA: The FBI is now asking the public for any photos or video they may have surrounding the Michigan State University shooting last night. They have also released the identities of two of the three victims from the shooting on the campus of Michigan State University.

Brian Fraser was a sophomore and Alexandria Verner was a junior. This photo was provided by her former superintendent who knows Verner's family. He told CNN: "She was everything you would want your daughter to be."

Five additional students are hospitalized in critical condition and we know that four of them needed emergency surgery.

BLACKWELL: Just after 8 pm, 911 calls started coming in that a gunman had started shooting at a classroom at Berkey Hall and then the Student Union. Last hour we spoke to an MSU student who was working at a bar across the street when the shooting started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOGAN FELEO, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Most of those academic buildings as it like Berkey or the Union, you do not need any like badge or anything to get in. The residential halls, you do need student IDs to get in. But those academic buildings where the shootings occurred, it's open to the public until a certain time when it closes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Police have named the suspect is 43-year-old Anthony McRae. He was killed by a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was identified by a tipster shortly after police sent out this surveillance photo. Police say he has no current or former affiliation with the university and they have found no conclusive motive for the killings, but they did find a note with him.

We're joined now by CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst, John Miller and CNN National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem.

John, let's start with you. You've got a hold of some dispatch sound. Tell us what we were hearing from this.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So after the shooting, the hunt goes on for the suspect. The picture goes out and people start calling in and units start to respond to these calls and a lot of them don't pan out. It's a guy in a jean jacket with dark pants.

But in this call as they approached they asked for that description again. They see the person who fits the description and they get out of the car to engage them. But this is a Michigan State Police unit that picked up that call that according to our colleague, Shimon Prokupecz, he now has walked apparently about 30 minutes from the campus when they encountered him on the street. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 347 be advised (inaudible) MSP found a subject who matched the description, when they approached he shot himself. Don't know if it's related but it matched the description.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a (inaudible) self-inflicted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Medics are en route. Is he conscious, breathing? What's the status?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not moving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clear. Male not moving?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a firearm. Second firearm in the backpack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: So they sum it up there. They approached him. He self- inflicted with the firearm, self-inflicted with gunshot wound, firearm recovered, you hear him say and then you say additional firearm in the backpack. And then they go on to describe what you don't hear.

A lot of additional ammunition, which begs the question, if he didn't use that in the first shooting, where was it that he was walking and was there another target.

GOLODRYGA: They also found a note on him.

MILLER: And the note expresses two things. I mean part of his dissociative personality, because there are parts of it that seemed to be fantasy and don't make sense. But there are parts of it that show the anger. He says, "They hurt me. I'm going to finish off lancing the town. There's 20 of me and there's going to be other incidents." He talks about targets in New Jersey. He references another active

shooter incident in Colorado. So a lot of anger but not much specificity exactly about what and no mention of Michigan State University.

GOLODRYGA: And Juliette, given just the amount of ammunition that was found with him, the fact that it was a tipster who provided the information after seeing the picture of the suspect really possibly and most likely saved many more lives.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's exactly right. And we're about 10 years from the Boston Marathon bombing, which is sort of in our space sort of a pivotal moment where the realization that you - one ought to crowdsource the ability of capturing especially in these very short timeframe incidents, the perpetrator because they might do more harm.

And so when people remember 10 years ago, it was sort of a momentous moment when the FBI comes out with the pictures. It's now part of standard operating procedure. You need the public's help and you're certainly not going to have enough law enforcement. There's no reason to keep it from the public. They are the victims. It's their community and that's exactly what happened in this case, it now happened.

[15:20:02]

The whole incident from the shooting and death of students to his self-inflicted wound was four hours. I mean, this is a remarkable timeframe. And so when you say lives are saved, yes, because he's not walking around for a day or two days or even multiple hours where he can get in a new place. And that's - I often say that is how you measure success now in a world with - in a nation with the - with guns and not being able to control these mass shootings is can you stop them faster and I think that's what happened here.

BLACKWELL: And, of course, after these shootings, we always look for red flags and I'm talking conversationally, not in the legal way, but we know that the suspect lived with its father and nearby Lansing. The father spoke to CNN by phone said this: "Ever since my wife died, my son began to change. He was getting more angry and more and more bitter. Angry and bitter. So angry. Evil angry, he began to really let himself go. His teeth were falling out. He stopped cutting his hair. He looked like a wolf man."

Was there something that this father could have done that would have been of any consequence? I mean, we're not supposed to put this on everyone else to solve. This is of one man's doing. He was the one police they pulled the trigger. But you read that description, you hear that description and what do you think?

MILLER: I mean, you have an individual who has two licensed or legally purchased firearms who is clearly becoming unhinged. But his father said the guns have to go. He assured his father the guns weren't there anymore. And his father said, I wasn't - his room was locked up, I wasn't allowed in there. So he is claiming he didn't know these weapons are there, which

actually brings it from I'm concerned for my son's welfare, up to the red flag level. So we'll have to take his story as told.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: And Juliette, this is just another reminder for the President, he came out today pushing the assault weapons ban, given the divided Congress, given that much couldn't be done even with a Democratic Congress and him in office. I mean, aside from just making everything a fortress, what more can be done when, let's be honest, we know what the culprit is.

KAYYEM: Right, exactly. And so - I mean, one is obviously responsible gun ownership for those who are responsible gun owners has to be part of what - of how they focus their efforts. In other words, it cannot be that - moved in a very different way.

And the vast majority of Americans believe in responsible gun ownership and also are against the assault rifle ban. So part of this is law enforcement, responsible gun owners getting out there and beginning to talk about sort of what are legitimate and honestly illegitimate ownership laws.

There is also - I don't want people to feel like there's nothing to do. There's actually a lot coming out of the FBI, the NYPD analysis in terms of these red flag laws, trigger laws and others that are helping us understand where intervention might work. We don't see that but - to minimize these harms.

And then, of course, yes, we are at a stage where if we can get our response capabilities better as we saw at MSU, as say, compared to Uvalde, you definitely save lives. I mean, they are - they were in their in moments with the surge capacity, the readiness to protect these kids. Great communications to the students, to the family.

But you're not going to be a fortress because ultimately, the American public is choosing not to be a fortress, which I actually think is good. You don't want to lock down these colleges and universities. You want to learn from this, but at some stage if we're - for a locked down nation, we're - that - I'm not ready to give up yet, let's just put it that way.

GOLODRYGA: Well, optimistic words there, but reality sets in that there have been more mass shootings so far this year than there have been days on the calendar.

John Miller and Juliette Kayyem, thank you.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, top defense officials from NATO countries are meeting right now in Brussels, what they are saying about Putin's strategy in the Ukraine war as Russia launches a new offensive.

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BLACKWELL: The number of those killed across Turkey and Syria from last week's massive earthquake is now above 41,000.

GOLODRYGA: And even though it's been more than a week now, search teams are still hearing survivors call out from underneath the rubble. Imagine that. Several people were pulled to safety today including a woman who was trapped for more than 200 hours. Two brothers were rescued from a collapsed eight storey building as well and this survivor was able to wave to rescuers. He was trapped for 208 hours.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is in Turkey with more on these miraculous discoveries.

So Jomana, I'm just reading that President Erdogan says that over 14,000 are hospitalized right now, so clearly there are survivors. What are you seeing on the ground?

[15:30:00]

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, we are here in the City of Antakya in Hatay Province, one of the hardest hit provinces.