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FBI Escorting People Back on MSU Campus to Get Belongings; Fmr. Gov. Nikki Haley (R-SC) Calls for New Generation of Leadership in 2024 Bid; Petito Family's Lawyer Wants Letter He Says Brian Laundrie's Mother Wrote About Burying a Body. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 15, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:03]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour here in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

This morning, students and faculty at Michigan State University are back on campus after the deadly, horrible shooting there, only, though, with an FBI escort so they can recover personal items left behind in the chaos.

HILL: We're also learning more about the three young lives that were cut short. 20-year-old Brian Fraser, 19-year-old Arielle Anderson and 20-year-old Alexandria Verner were killed in that shooting. We're also getting details about the gunman and what he left behind.

We're also watching just about an hour from now former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley set to formally set to jump into the 2024 race for the White House. New details at this hour about who will introduce her at a rally in Charleston and what her message will be. We will be bring you that.

But, first, we're going to straight to CNN's Adrienne Broaddus who joins us from East Lansing, Michigan. What more do we know about the three students who were killed, Adrienne?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica, good morning to you. We're learning about Arielle Anderson whom her family affectionately called Ari, her aunt says she was studying to become a doctor and her aunt says her laugh was gentle and she barely spoke above a whisper.

Also among the killed, two other students, Alexandria Verner and Brian Fraser. We've learned Fraser was the president of his fraternity here on campus and Verner was a star athlete in high school. Their superintendent, we heard from, and their coach, both from when they were high school, the superintendent and coach telling us they were special.

Among the survivors, we heard from a student who not only survived the shooting here on campus Monday night but she also survived the Oxford High School shooting. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVA FERGUSON, MSU STUDENT WHO ATTENDED OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL: I was flabbergasted, to say the least. You know, after Oxford, they said that this wasn't going to happen again, that we were going to be safe going back to school, and that's just not the case. The other night I was in shock. I didn't think it was real, honestly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And that's the thing, we may never know why this happened. Authorities telling CNN the shooter had no ties to Michigan State University. The shooter's father, Michael McRae, said in part, quote, ever since my wife died, my son began to change. He was getting more and more bitter, angry and bitter, so angry, evil angry, the father described it, saying his son began to let himself go. Erica and Jim?

SCIUTTO: Evil angry, indeed. Adrienne Broaddus, thanks so much.

Well, from one mass shooting to another, happening right now, sentencing under way for the man who shot and killed ten people at a grocery store in Buffalo, New York. This just last May. You may remember it. 19-year-old Payton Gendron pleaded guilty to several state charges in November. He is expected to be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

HILL: CNN Correspondent Omar Jimenez joining us now with more. So, family members beginning to give the victim impact statements. What are we hearing from them so far, Omar?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, look, this is likely going to be a lengthy hearing, an emotional one at this stage of the legal proceedings. Up to 17 victim impact statements are expected and we just got started. One just finished, the wife of Aaron Salter, who was the security guard, who actually engaged the shooter when this first happened back in May 2022, and also family of Ruth Whitfield speaking right now, who is a grandmother killed in this.

And, look, these in regards to the state charges. He's been convicted on up, including ten first-degree murder charges and murder motivated or I should say domestic terrorism motivated by hate, which is the first time that charge has been used at the state level in New York since that became available.

And my colleague, Mark Morales, who is inside, says that the mayor is also sitting in the front row, the police chief is sitting in the front row. I think they want to send a message that the city is united here in these proceedings.

And keep in mind, these are the state proceedings. At the federal level, the death penalty still is on the table. Attorney General Merrick Garland has yet to make a decision on that. And even though the shooter pleaded not guilty to those charges, his attorneys indicated in December that if he were to plead guilty, they are asking for that death penalty to be taken off of the table as a potential consequence.

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So, we'll see if any decisions are made based on how these proceedings go today. But, obviously, that's another factor that could play out after this is over.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Omar, I appreciate it. Thank you.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

SCIUTTO: With us now to discuss, Dr. Megan Ranney, she is an emergency physician and deputy dean at Brown University School of Public Health, also Mimi Rocah, she is the district attorney for Westchester New York, former federal prosecutor. Good to have you both on.

Dr. Ranney, if I could begin with you, I think about the kids, right, certainly the kids who lost their lives and about the ones who survived, and particularly the ones who witnessed, experienced the shooting on the campus, but then had survived the high school shooting. How do students, parents, teachers handle the stress of this kind of thing? It's mind boggling.

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: It is mind boggling. And, Jim, I will tell you as an emergency physician, I've seen firsthand so many times the effect of a bullet, not just on the body of the person who is shot, which is horrific enough, in and of itself, but on the witnesses, the family members, the friends, the community members, the first responders. There is secondary trauma for all of them.

And to be honest, we don't have great solutions. What we have, instead, is this repetitive trauma our kids are growing up under, where they have increasing frequency of lockdown drills, increasing likelihood of personally knowing someone who has been shot.

I will say as a parent, I try to protect my kids from seeing this stuff on social media, talk to them about coping and resilience skills, but it's time to step up as a country and think about the fact that we have a generation that is growing up traumatized who we've not done much for to help them cope and get through.

HILL: A generation growing up that way and I think an increasing number of Americans who feel they're just waiting to be around this next horrific event.

Mimi, I know that you said that gun violence is the number one question or priority that you're asked about. What are those questions that are thrown your way? What do people want?

RANNEY: I mean, people --

MIMI ROCAH, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, WESTCHESTER COUNTY, NEW YORK: So, what I hear, Erica --

HILL: Go ahead, Mimi. RANNEY: Sorry.

ROCAH: No problem. What I hear over and over from people in the community and even on social media and even prosecutors and law enforcement, is how do we stop this? How do we make this end, or at least get better, because it feels like it's getting worse.

And I think it's easy to feel, because it seems like that this is just a relentless, endless cyclical of mass shooting, and I'm parent as well as a prosecutor and I know many of your listeners are as well, and it's terrifying. The other night when I heard what was happening on the Michigan campus, I said, wow, are my kids going to school some day because I don't know if I want them on a campus. But we can't think like that because the fact is we are making progress and there is a lot that we can do. And if we feel defeated, then we're just going to give in and it's going to get worse.

So, some of the things I talk about a lot, that we're doing a lot of work here on -- here in Westchester County, but I know all over the state and other states as well, by the time something gets to me as a prosecutor for sentencing or a prosecution, it's too late, right? We're going to help the victims as much as we can. We're going to seek justice for -- against a shooter for the victims, but what we really want is prevention.

So, we need more laws at the federal level that close, for example, the gun show loophole. We need more closure on background checks. We need the assault weapon ban and the high-capacity magazine ban. We need to stem the flow of guns. And then at the local level, we need to use really important tools like red flag laws that allow us to get guns out of the hands of people who have signs that they might be using those guns for some harm to other people.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's such a good point because, clearly, there are multiple solutions, no single one seems to work here. I mean, red flag laws, goodness, this guy threw up a lot of red flags, still got a gun.

I want to ask you, Dr. Ranney, about the health piece, because often in the wake of this, you will hear -- and some of this is gratuitous, right, because folks who don't want to talk about guns at all will say it's entirely a mental health issue, but, clearly, mental health is part of this. This is a troubled person involved in this shooting. What specifically is our health care system not doing now and has to change to give help, address cases like this, before they get a gun and go kill people?

RANNEY: So, the first thing is just to recognize these risk factors. Physicians, nurses, physician assistants, they get no training right now in medical school or in other parts of health professional school about how to recognize risk for perpetrating gun violence against one's self.

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Remember, approximately two-thirds of gun deaths in this country are gun suicide or of perpetrating gun violence against someone else. Much less, we are not giving tools for how to help.

We know that there is a deficit of mental health providers in this country. So, if we do recognize problems, we often lack the resources to refer a patient to. We also often in health care don't know about things like red flag laws. We don't feel comfortable counseling on safe storage. So, there's a roll for the health care system but it has to be embedded into and have a larger cultural change about how do we recognize risk and what do we do afterwards.

HILL: Larger cultural change and a conversation that we will need to continue. Sadly, since it's not resolved but also so important to keep that conversation going. Dr. Megan Ranney, Mimi Rocah, I appreciate you both joining us this morning, thank you.

RANNEY: Thank you.

HILL: Moments from now, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley will formally announce she is jumping into the race for the White House.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Kylie Atwood, she is in Charleston, South Carolina, this morning as we prepare for this announcement. What do we expect from her speech today?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, we're looking for her to introduce herself to the American people for the first time as a presidential candidate. Obviously, Nikki Haley is pretty well known in the state of South Carolina, the two-time governor here, and she'll lean on that leadership experience when she speaks today, talking about how she brought together the community, for example, after that awful shooting at the Mother Emanuel AME Church, which is just blocks from here.

But the other thing that Nikki Haley is going to do is talk about her own personal biography, really hone in on the fact that she is the daughter of Indian immigrants. She grew up here in South Carolina, and in her words in a video that she released yesterday, saying that she was actually running for president, said she wasn't black, she wasn't white, but she was different.

And one thing that she has said is that she doesn't believe that America is racist. So, she may lean into, you know, those culture wars that we have seen some other Republicans who are running for president potentially lean into over the course of the last few months, but for her, this is her moment to introduce herself for the first time.

One of the folks that we are expecting to see on stage today is Cindy Warmbier. She's not a well-known name to most Americans, but she's the mother of Otto Warmbier. He was an American college student who traveled to North Korea, and he was detained there. He died just days after returning to the United States. Nikki Haley, when she was ambassador to the United Nations, connected with Cindy Warmbier, and Cindy told me last night that she credits Nikki Haley for giving her the strength that she needed to go from survival mode to fighter mode.

So, that is one of the anecdotes that we'll hear, and it really underscores a piece of Nikki Haley's story that she wants folks to know, that she's not scared to stand up to bullies, that she will stand up to America's adversaries. She did that when she was the ambassador to the United Nations on the world stage.

Another person that we'll be watching for today is Congressman Ralph Norman. He is a member of Congress from South Carolina. He's the first one to endorse Nikki Haley today. Previously, he's been an ally of former President Trump, and he said in a statement today that he believes that America is better off after what Trump accomplished, but he believes that there is time -- there's a need for change in the Republican Party and think that Haley is the best pick. Guys?

SCIUTTO: Kylie Atwood, thanks so much.

Joining us now, Republican Strategist Sarah Longwell and Washington Bureau Chief for the Boston Globe Jackie Kucinich, good to have you both on.

Sarah, you hear from Kylie Atwood there that part of the message from Nikki Haley will be she stands up to bullies. She did work for former President Trump when he bullied a heck of a lot of people and took a lot of positions that privately you might hear she disagreed with but publicly did not stand up. I wonder, she seems to want it both ways, right, to not quite alienate the Trump base in the party she seeks the nomination while trying to set out a singular path here. Can she?

SARAH LONGWELL, PUBLISHER, THE BULWARK: I don't think so. I mean, this is where a lot of Republican candidates are really going to struggle, where they don't want to directly take on President Trump but they don't want to alienate his voters.

And I think with Nikki Haley in particular, I do regular focus groups with GOP voters every week, I just did one this week, and the way that voters currently perceive her is a sort of an establishment, old style, pre-Trump politician.

And so for some people in the party, especially for some swing voters who have been concerned about the direction of the Republican Party, you know, they kind of like Nikki Haley. But for sort of your two-time Trump voters, they want to look forward.

[10:15:04]

They want politicians who are going to fight culture wars and, you know, the kinds of things that have made Nikki Haley an attractive candidate in the past, like her foreign policy experience, she seems sort of temperamentally moderate, those are not the things that base Republican voters are looking for today.

HILL: And it's interesting, too, when we look at who the base Republican voter is today and who she will need to win over, Jackie, even if you look at a moment that was really regarded as a major win for her, politically and also personally, in the wake of that horrific massacre at the Emanuel AME Church, the confederate flag taken down from the South Carolina statehouse, but then a few years later, she pulled back on part of that, saying she didn't really recognize what the flag symbolizes, almost downplaying, right, the real pain that it symbolizes. How much more of that will she have to address and how much more of that, Jackie, do you think we'll see?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we've seen her do that on a number of things, even former President Trump. Initially, she came out against him, and then she dialed it back and then said in an interview, I believe last year that she didn't think he was going to run again and that, you know, they could say that he let the Republican Party down. But now, you know, she doesn't want to talk against him again. So, there is this back and forth, and the voters are going to have to decide if that's enough for them.

But she's not alone. As Sarah said, there is a group of Republicans that are going to try to have this lane, where they don't -- where they try to have it both ways. And for Nikki Haley, this is a continuation of what she's trying to do post her position at the U.N.

SCIUTTO: Sarah Longwell, she's the first to challenge Trump, but pretty clear she's not going to be the last. Pence, Tim Scott, others considering races or close to announcing their own races here. What does that tell you about Donald Trump's hold on the party that so many folks, including folks who worked in his administration, right up to his vice president, willing to challenge him for the nomination?

LONGWELL: Well, look, there's no doubt that Donald Trump is weaker than he's ever been. In these focus groups where I listen to two-time Trump voters, a lot of them want to move on. They talk actively about how they think Donald Trump can't win. They think he has a real electability problem.

The thing is, though, they're interested in people who are still like Trump. I mean, one of the reasons that Ron DeSantis really pops up as the number one alternative is because they see him as Trump without the baggage or Trump but still electable.

And a lot of the people like Pompeo and Pence and Nikki Haley and Chris Christie, they're kind of like this middle tier where there's not a huge appetite from voters because voters see them as backward- looking. Even though Nikki Haley's pitch in part is forward looking new generation, voters read them as establishment old style and they don't want go back. They want somebody from sort of the Trump MAGA cinematic universe going forward. And that's where you see sort of Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis being the ones that voters are gravitating to right now.

HILL: Jackie, when anyone launches a bid, they have a lot of people around them, right, who will encourage them. Ultimately, they're hearing enough people say, hey, this is a good idea, we think you really have a shot. There are some questions this morning about whether she may have a shot, just based on early polling. Could this, though, be perhaps less about her really going for the White House in 2024 and more of a long-term political play on her part, Jackie?

KUCINICH: We'll have to see. It does seem like she really wants to be president if you read some of her previous interviews, but it is too soon to tell what her longevity will be. It will be very interesting to see how she -- Sarah mentions Pompeo, Pence, these people that worked for former President Trump, that were in his administration, as our Boston Globe wrote this week, how they try to square how they worked for him and now they're running against him potentially for some of them at this point for the 2024 nomination. Because that is, while they do try to make that loyalty pitch, it's not exactly the most loyal thing to challenge your former boss for the presidency. So, we'll see how she does that going forward.

HILL: Details, details, Jackie. Jackie Kucinich, Sarah Longwell, really good to see you both. Thanks.

Still to come, burn after reading. That is when an attorney for Gabby Petito's family says Brian Laundrie's mother wrote on a letter to her son. The attorney says the contents of that letter incredibly disturbing.

SCIUTTO: Plus, Ohio residents are wondering if their water and air are safe after that train carrying hazardous materials derailed this month, went up in flames.

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We're going to hear firsthand about their fears in the wake of that toxic spill.

And stunning images from Turkey, earthquake survivors still being pulled from the rubble after a week and a half. Details behind their harrowing stories of survival, that's coming up.

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SCIUTTO: A bizarre twist in the case of Brian Laundrie and Gabby Petito. An attorney for Petito's family, Patrick Reilly, wants a letter written to Laundrie by his mother offering, it seems, to bury a body, help him get out of prison. Reilly said he personally viewed the letter at an FBI regional office claiming it was in an envelope marked, quote/unquote, burn after reading.

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HILL: CNN Correspondent Jean Casarez joining us now with more. So, the Petito family, in terms of this letter, what did they specifically want to happen with the letter?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They want the letter because this is a civil case in Florida for an intentional infliction of emotional distress. I'll explain that more later. But they believe this is evidence that a jury could -- should see, because this case is proceeding to trial and it was yesterday they had this hearing and it was about discovery, you know, the flow of documents back and forth between the plaintiffs and the defendants.

And then the plaintiff's attorney, Patrick Reilly, stood up and said, your honor, we are aware of a letter that Roberta Laundrie wrote to her son, Brian Laundrie, and it includes several things and I want to show you. Here's what legal document that was filed after the hearing says. It says, quote, please produce a copy of a letter written by Roberta Laundrie to Brian Laundrie, which states, in part, that Roberta Laundrie would bring a shovel to help bury a body and which letter was contained in an envelope which on said envelope stated, burn after reading. It also said in that letter that we heard in the hearing from the plaintiff's attorney that the letter included, will help you get out of prison.

And the defense stood up and said, your honor, in the hearing, this has no relevance. This letter, and it's very unfortunately worded, but it's from months ago before they took their van life trip. And in the plaintiff's attorney representing the Petitos said, your honor, there is no date on this letter at all and it was found in the backpack when they found Brian Laundrie's body. It is relevant. A jury should hear it.

And let me tell you what this case is based on, Erica. During the time that Gabby was missing, the Petitos have alleged that they called constantly the Laundries. Remember, the two were engaged, right? They all knew each other. Call after call after call, they never responded. They sent texts, text after text, they didn't respond. They blocked them on Facebook. Their attorney -- they even had their attorney --

HILL: The Laundries blocked the Petitos?

CASAREZ: Yes. The Petitos' attorney even sent a letter to the Laundries, saying, we're begging you, please, let us know anything you know about Gabby.

The Petitos are saying in this case, we have no duty to say anything to anybody. That's our right. But intentional infliction of emotional distress, especially in Florida, it's outrageous behavior. That is defined legally as beyond the realm of normal behavior, taking it to the limits. And this case, they've tried to get it dismissed, the Laundries, but it is proceeding to trial this summer.

HILL: It's civil. I heard you say earlier this morning this is not about the money for them. They really want some more of this information out there.

CASAREZ: I heard yesterday in the hearing, the defense said, the Laundries have no money. And I believe that this is -- they're into principles, the Petitos really are focused on the principles of all of this.

HILL: It really is something. We'll see if that letter is ultimately produced. Jean, I appreciate it. Thank you.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

HILL: And joining us now to discuss, Civil Rights Attorney Areva Martin. Areva, when we look at this, full disclosure, Jean and I were chatting a little bit before the break here because I had so many questions for her, the fact that the family is saying this has nothing to do with this, nothing to see here, it's found in his backpack, if it's not related to what happened to Gabby Petito, doesn't that raise separate questions that perhaps need an answer about why this type of letter would be written in the first place, Areva?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Erica. This letter raises so many questions. And I think the judge's decision was absolutely correct, that this letter is absolutely relevant and it should be produced in discovery because discovery is a process where lots of information gets exchanged between the parties, even information that a judge may deem is not admissible in an actual trial. It doesn't mean it's not admissible at this stage, which is the discovery.

And this letter showing details that suggest that this family knew that their son, Brian, had killed Gabby Petito. They knew it and they were just refusing to share that information with law enforcement, obviously, and refusing to share that information with Gabby's family. And I think if jurors knew that, that that could be very, very impactful in terms of the Petitos' case against the Laundries.

SCIUTTO: Is this purely civil exposure for them? Is there potential criminal exposure?

MARTIN: At this is point, this is just a civil case. We know that there was a wrongful death case also filed by the Petito family. Apparently a $3 million settlement was reached in that wrongful death case, and this is a separate case, as Jean said, that's strictly about intentional infliction of emotional distress.

The Petito family was begging to get information about the whereabouts of their daughter, about her health status, about whether she was alive or not, and the Laundrie family refused to provide any information, refused to answer phone calls.

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And now if this letter is accurate, it appears to be because it was found by the FBI in Brian Laundrie's backpack, this confirms that this family knew that.