Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Students Mourn Alexandria Verner, Brian Fraser & Arielle Anderson; Nikki Haley Calls For "New Generation," Kicking Off White House Bid; U.S. Intel Assessing Possibility That The Chinese Balloon Wasn't Deliberately Flown Over The United States. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 15, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell.

We begin with the faces of tragedy from Monday night's shooting at Michigan State University. Junior, Arielle Anderson was the youngest of three siblings. Her family tells the MSU student newspaper she was working diligently to graduate early and wanted to be a surgeon. Brian Fraser was a sophomore. He was also president of his fraternity's MSU chapter. A vigil was held at his hometown church last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a faithful young man. This was his church. He received the sacraments here and he received his faith from this community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And Alexandria Verner was a junior. The state news says that she was a multisport student-athlete who was majoring in biology.

GOLODRYGA: All lives lost way too soon. We also know five other students are in the hospital currently fighting for their lives. A student has shared new video that shows the chaotic moments when he and his peers hid in a classroom. The lights turned off and you hear the students arguing over whether or not to unlock the door after they hear a loud knock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sit down. We're calling the cops right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is live in East Lansing. What's happening there today, Adrienne?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, today has been quiet. We have seen students and members of the community showing up here at the Sparty statue. They prayed here, they've comforted each other, and we've also seen some tears. Investigators are also allowing students who had to leave their belongings behind at Berkey Hall and the MS Union to head back to retrieve those items. And about four hours here at this Sparty statue, there will be a vigil to remember the victims who you just mentioned, the three who were killed on Monday night as well as the five who are still in critical condition who were physically injured.

Meanwhile, we are learning a little more about that 43-year-old shooter. Police said a note was discovered in the shooter's pocket threatening to target two other schools in New Jersey. Investigators say the 43-year-old shooter did have ties to New Jersey. But a lot of folks are wondering why he started shooting here on the campus of MSU. That is still unclear and it's something quite frankly, we may never know the motive. Members of law enforcement are expected to update the media tomorrow, Victor.

GOLODRYGA: And, Adrienne, just an example of the reality we live in here in this country, it is literally the second mass shooting for some of the survivors. Just hard to comprehend.

BROADDUS: Yes, you're talking about Ava Ferguson and some of her classmates. She was a singer when the Oxford school shooting happened 14 months ago. She said she never thought another school shooting would happen again to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVA FERGUSON, SURVIVED MSU AND OXFORD HS SHOOTINGS: I was flabbergasted, to say the least. Um, you know, after Oxford, they said that this wasn't going to happen again, that we were going to be safe going back to school, and that's just not the case. It was like traumatizing all over again. I'm still a little like shaken up by -- I -- at the time, we didn't know any information. I didn't know where the shooter was. I thought I was in like imminent danger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: Terrifying moments, not once but twice, Ava and some of her classmates have lived through. Meanwhile, behind me, you see Sparty standing strong. He's a symbol of strength, Victor, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: I know this hits close to home for you, Adrienne Broaddus, an alumnus of MSU yourself, thank you so much.

Well, we're now joined by an educator who knew one of the victims. Billy Shellenbarger is a former principal of the high school Alexandria Verner attended. He spoke at the vigil for her last night. Billy, thank you for joining us today. I know that you met Alex when she played as a kindergartener at the youth basketball program that you had founded and you had the privilege of watching her grow up. Tell us a little bit about her.

BILLY SHELLENBARGER, FAMILY FRIEND OF MICHIGAN SHOOTING VICTIM ALEX VERNER: But first of all, on behalf of the Verner family and the Clawson community, we appreciate the opportunity today to talk about Al. And in 2008-2009 to have the honor of meeting a young lady who would grow into what you would want your daughter, your sister, any of your friends to be, what an honor for me -- what an honor for us.

[14:05:12]

And the impact that she has had on each individual myself included in our community, the Clawson Trojan community, the Clawson, Michigan community, and clearly the Michigan State University community, an amazing young lady who will be remembered for a plethora of high character and integrity-based paths that she was -- she was walking every single day.

BLACKWELL: I imagine that as a former principal and now superintendent, you know maybe a few students who attend Michigan State University. So, when you first heard that there was a shooting at the school, I mean, what went through your mind? What were you feeling?

SHELLENBARGER: Well, certainly we track those things. Unfortunately, in the world we live in now as educators when those things come up, we start to track them. And you know, I was -- I was following every step of the way. And we have a number of students from our district now at Clawson, my previous district Northville that attend and immediately start to race through it. You connect with people on text, students, current students, former students, families, parents, and start to wonder what that experience is all about for them and are they safe.

And I was fortunate last night at our vigil to connect and hug and thank so many of our -- of our Clawson, Trojans, and now Sparty's who we saw honoring owl, and get their story about where they were on Monday night and their experience that we were all going through from afar. And we were blessed to see them yesterday and able to hug all of them. Tell them how much we care about them. And how great it was to see them after such a traumatic evening on their campus.

GOLODRYGA: Billy, as superintendent, I know that you wrote a letter to the families of the 1300 students who are in your district. How do you put towards what has happened to the community? What did you say?

SHELLENBARGER: It's impossible, and I needed help. And I -- and I have great people around us that helped me put that together, you know. But there are standard letters and formats that you get and templates that they asked you to use. And you use them.

But we love Al Verner, class of 2020 Clawson Trojan, and it was important for me to personalize it so people could feel it, understand her, know her, honor her, template aside, you know, standard form letter aside. She's what it's all about. Not the narrative of the coward that took her life, but the narrative of her as a human being and I wanted our community for those who knew her and who didn't to feel that. And the family asked me and I was honored to say yes to speak on their behalf, honored and humbled and will forever be. And when I asked them how they wanted me to communicate to you all, they said "speak from the heart." And because I have that relationship with them, that's what I'm doing. And that's what's important for Al, for everyone to understand who she was, and the 20 years that she lived, walking that path of incredible modesty, humility, and integrity, and kindness, which we all need to take a chapter out of that book -- out of Alex's book.

BLACKWELL: Well, Billy Shellenbarger, thank you for your time. You did her pretty well today by sharing some thoughts and memories of Alex Verner. Thank you for the work you're doing and I know it's not easy. We heard from Anna, who was a student at Oxford saying that they told us we would be safe.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: And now they're going through it again. I just wonder what superintendents -- principals tell students now. Billy, thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: We're lucky to have you as a superintendent. Thank you.

SHELLENBARGER: On behalf of Verners, thank you -- thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: All right.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you. That was really moving. Well, the race to be the Republican nominee for president is no longer a one-man show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will simply say this. May the best woman win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley announcing that she is officially taking on her former boss Donald Trump for the White House.

BLACKWELL: Haley called for a new generation of leadership at a kickoff event in Charleston, South Carolina, where she served as governor for two terms. CNN's Kylie Atwood is in South Carolina. So, Kylie, tell us more about what Ambassador Haley's opening message is to her party.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, she said she believes that she's ready. The party is ready to move on from the stale ideas and the faded names of the Republican Party's past, making a clear pitch that she is the future of the Republican Party.

[14:10:10]

And when we talk about, you know, the generational pitch that she's making here, it's important to note that she's 51 years old. President Biden, former President Trump are both older than 75 years old. And she even called for a competency test for politicians that are over 75. So, that would include both of those politicians. And when she was talking to the folks here in the room today, hundreds of supporters here in South Carolina, she was also critical of the Republican Party in the past. Listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: I have a particular message for my fellow Republicans. We've lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections. Our cause is right, but we have failed to win the confidence of a majority of Americans. Well, that ends today. If you're tired of losing, put your trust in a new generation. And if you want to win, not just as a party, but as a country, stand with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, this was also Nikki Haley's opportunity to introduce herself to the American people for the first time as a presidential candidate, calling herself a proud daughter of Indian immigrants, talking about growing up in a small town in South Carolina where they were the only Indian family in town. And she laid out her vision for the future of America, saying that it should be a strong future, not in her words, woke and weak, and laying out some specific ideas that are really popular with the Republican base, secure borders, increase police in the communities, making sure that politicians can't prevent children from going to school and making sure that Americans are hired over illegal immigrants. So, really something there for everyone as she is making the case that she is the best candidate to attract the majority of Republican voters.

BLACKWELL: Kylie Atwood for us there in Charleston, thank you very much. Let's bring in now former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson. He is considering a run for the Republican nomination for president himself. And he joins us from, of all places, Des Moines, Iowa. Governor, good to see you. Let's start with Governor Haley, though, Ambassador Haley, a strong candidate?

ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, ARKANSAS: Oh, absolutely delighted that she made the announcement today. There'll be other candidates that will be in the race. But it certainly points up that the party needs new leadership in terms of going a different direction from the Biden administration, but also within the party, as she pointed out and as I have pointed out, that we can't go back to the Trump leadership that has really put our party and the country in some respects in disarray. We need new leadership for the future.

So, it's a powerful message that I share that Nikki has presented today. And now, it's a test as to, you know, whose message and whose ideas and solutions America responds to whether it's Iowa or whether it's New Hampshire or South Carolina. It's a test of whose leadership and message resonates --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

HUTCHINSON: -- and also can bring our country and put our country in the right and best direction.

BLACKWELL: Well, Governor, she didn't just say that there needs to be new leadership, she hit a central generational theme. Here are some of the highlights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: We're ready, ready to move past the stale ideas and faded names of the past. America is not past our prime. It's just that our politicians are past theirs. We won't win the fight for the 21st century if we keep trusting politicians from the 20th century.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: 20th-century politicians, she also talked about faded names. She's making an argument that you need a new generation. You would be 73 on Inauguration Day, what's your response to that element of her pitch?

HUTCHINSON: Well, the key is, you know what leadership is going to generate support among the next generation of Americans. And to me, it's bringing in the independence, it is bringing in the suburban voters, and bringing in the young people. And I remember Ronald Reagan who inspired a new generation of conservative leaders. And so, to me, the test is who inspires, who can bring our country in the right direction, and who can appeal to that new generation of voters. That's the test to me and so, let's wait and see.

[14:15:02]

I'm delighted that we're going to have a number of candidates in there that's representing new history. You know, I've just finished my time as governor of eight years. I've served in the Bush administration.

HUTCHINSON: I think that's a history and of course, Nikki brings her own long history of service together as well.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you one more here before we talk about your visit here to Iowa. She says the America she envisions has a mandatory mental competency test for politicians over 75 years old. Do you support that?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I don't think the Constitution supports that. The Constitution sets the requirements for office. But you know, whatever you go out and meet the voters, you're having a mental test every day. And so, the mental acuity is something that the voters are very effective at analyzing but let's stick to the Constitution and what the Constitution requires.

BLACKWELL: All right. You're in Des Moines, obviously the first contest for Republicans in the primaries. You said that -- this was last year, you'd wait until after the midterms were hundred days beyond the midterm election now, you won't make some news today about a decision of the 2024 candidacy?

HUTCHINSON: No. and I am delighted to be here in Iowa. I'm in Des Moines. I'll be going to Council Bluffs a little bit later today, and meet Iowans and people across the country. But today, Iowa is very important because they're helped shape the message for our future and determine the strength of anyone's potential candidacy. So, glad to be here, no announcement today but the timetable, I think in the next couple of months, you're going to have multiple candidates in there. I don't think it'll be as large a field as 2016.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

HUTCHINSON: But that's what Americans about, the democracy is about, and Iowa is about, that's going to shrink that field. But we're going to start off with a broad number of messages that will give alternatives for new leadership direction for our country.

BLACKWELL: All right, I've got just a couple of seconds left. Do you have a hard date by which you believe you have to make this decision?

HUTCHINSON: I don't think there's a hard date there. Obviously, when you get into April, you're getting closer to the first debate, so you know, that's artificially a timeframe that I'm looking at. But the key thing is, I mean, I'm here in Iowa, I'm articulating a consistent conservative message. That's what's important right now.

BLACKWELL: All right, former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, always good to have you. Thank you.

HUTCHINSON: All right. Great to be with you.

GOLODRYGA: He can't blame me for asking. We had to do it, right?

BLACKWELL: I mean that's right. The day you look to the Lord.

GOLODRYGA: I mean look at where I was too, right?

BLACKWELL: It was an opportunity.

GOLODRYGA: Go to make news. You can come back and do that anytime.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Intel officials are now looking at the possibility that the Chinese spy balloon was not deliberately flown over the continental U.S. This new reporting comes ahead of a classified Senate briefing on China. Up next. We'll speak with one of the lawmakers set to attend that meeting.

BLACKWELL: And emotions were running high at the sentencing for the Buffalo supermarket shooter who was sentenced to life in prison today without the possibility of parole. See more of this moment, a man charged the shooter in the courtroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:09]

GOLODRYGA: Right now, U.S. intelligence is currently assessing if the Chinese spy balloon's path over the U.S. was accidental and if the weather did in fact diverted off course, as the Chinese government alleges.

BLACKWELL: Let's get to CNN's Natasha Bertrand. Take us through what Intel officials are at least considering now.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Victor. So, we're learning that U.S. Intel officials are closely scrutinizing the possibility that this balloon was in fact diverted off of its original course by the weather. And this is important because if in fact it is proven or shown or intelligent suggests that this path towards the continental United States from China where it was originally launched was, in fact, unintentional, then this could go a pretty long way in easing tensions between the U.S. and China.

But just to take you back a minute. The U.S. did track this balloon from the moment that it took off from China. And originally, based on the flight path that it kind of settled into, the U.S. believed that it was going to travel eastward over Guam potentially to surveil sensitive military installations there. But instead, it took a pretty dramatic northern turn and it went off course, up to Alaska across towards Canada and then down towards Montana where of course it did settle ultimately over yet another sensitive military installation there. But the U.S. officials that we speak to now saying that there is a possibility that the weather patterns and strong winds particularly over Alaska and Canada did in fact cause that balloon to divert south and that it was possibly not intentional.

Now, it is important to note that this balloon can still maneuver, but it's very limited. So, the fact that it did loiter kind of over those sensitive sites in Montana is proof to the United States that the Chinese did want at least to take advantage of its position there and continue to gather intelligence. But ultimately, this is the intention behind the balloon. And its path is going to be really critical in determining of course, whether the U.S. and China can get past this really dramatic diplomatic period of tension, guys.

GOLODRYGA: But whether its movement was accidental is one thing. China has all along claimed that it was a weather balloon. So, we still know that this was a surveillance balloon, correct, Natasha?

BERTRAND: Exactly right. And U.S. officials have not changed their minds on that. The question though, is whether it intentionally violated U.S. airspace and U.S. sovereignty.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Thank you so much, Natasha Bertrand. Well, as pressure mounts on the president to share more information about the Chinese spy balloon and the three other unidentified objects the U.S. military shot down this month, we're now learning that he may deliver remarks this week. And two moments from now, senators are expected to receive a classified briefing about China. That includes Democratic Senator Bob Menendez. He is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thank you so much for joining us. So, as you're about to enter this hearing, what are the most pressing questions you have about the surveillance balloon?

[14:25:02]

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ, (D-NJ): Well, Bianna, this specific brief intelligence briefing is about Chinese capabilities in terms of its military platform and what are the differences in capabilities between their military capabilities that of the United States? What is the potential for the performance of the People's Liberation Army, and a whole host of those items? So, it was -- it preceded the elements of the balloon.

Having been the other day at the briefing that was balloon specific, I would just simply say, look, there's no question that that was a surveillance balloon and we are still assessing what its capabilities were. It was not a weather balloon. And whether or not it was purposeful or was deviated by wind patterns, is something the Chinese are still responsible for once they send that balloon into space and ultimately, even though going over Guam. It's about sensitive information of the United States' defense capability.

So, they are doing this -- they're doing this in Latin America, different sides. So, the Chinese are actually engaging in using the spy balloons over sovereign countries, and it has to be called out for that and there should be consequences for it.

GOLODRYGA: So, that doesn't lower your level of concern if, in fact, this balloon deviated off course because as you noted, it was still intended to surveil U.S. military bases in the Pacific.

MENENDEZ: Yes. I mean, I don't think we should let them off the hook that because maybe, and we're not there yet in terms of an exact intelligence decision, that it got blown off course, so to speak. That shouldn't minimize the reality that they were still intending to surveil. They were still intending to spy upon U.S. military assets. Guam is a territory of the United States.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

MENENDEZ: And therefore, I consider it the same as if you were flying over the continental United States.

GOLODRYGA: U.S. officials stress that they have confidence that they were able to jam any sort of information that this balloon may have been able to transmit back to China. Do you have confidence in that?

MENENDEZ: Well, we're going to continue to ask tough questions as we have at these classified hearings. I would just simply say I do think they work to minimize any potential signatures that are sensitive sites had that could have been picked up by this balloon. But there's obviously a reason the Chinese use it, right?

You can get information from satellites, which are way out in outer space. But the ability of a balloon is to hang lower, stay longer, and ultimately capture incredible information. I think we succeeded largely in avoiding that but that doesn't leave the Chinese off the hook.

GOLODRYGA: Your Republican colleague, Senator Josh Hawley has said that the U.S. in response to this should be tougher on China and perhaps even introduced new sanctions. Would you support that? Would this balloon itself merit new sanctions against China?

MENENDEZ: Well, I think we have to have a tougher policy overall, as it relates to China. China is our biggest geostrategic challenge, both now and in the future. When I held a hearing today at the Foreign Relations Committee on fentanyl and the number of deaths in America, precursor drugs are coming from China. They're doing nothing in that regard. They're belligerence in the South China Sea, a million Uyghurs in concentration camps in the 21st century, and so much more. So, I think we should be taking on China in a much more you know robust way than we are right now.

GOLODRYGA: And it comes as relations between the two countries, I don't have to tell you are on an all-time low. Chinese military officials are not returning calls from their U.S. counterparts. The Secretary of State in response to this balloon postponed a visit to China and a meeting with President Xi. And it is reported that Secretary of State Blinken may be meeting with his counterpart at the Munich Security Conference this week. Do you think that that meeting should take place? Would you support that?

MENENDEZ: Well, look, I think having open lines of communication especially, so that we deconflict any potential risk of conflict that is unintended is incredibly important. And it is alarming to hear our defense establishment say that, in fact, they picked up the phone and called and there was no answer at the other end. That cannot be between two nations, especially nations that may be on a potential collision course at some point in time in the future. And so, we want to avoid that. So, in order to do that, you have to have somebody to talk to. And in that respect, I think on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, which I'll be at, I think it makes sense to at least establish those lines of communication to deconflict and avoid such conflict.

GOLODRYGA: And lastly, do you think the president should address the public specifically about this Chinese surveillance balloon later this week?