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End Of Interview With Sen. Bob Menendez (D-NJ) Discussing The Chinese Spy Balloon, 3 Other Unidentified Objects Shot Down; DOJ Officially Decides Not To Charge GOP's Matt Gaetz; Prosecutors Seek To Force Testimony From Trump Lawyer; Biden Delivers Remarks On State Of The Economy; CBO: U.S. Could Default On Debt Between July And September If Congress Doesn't Act; Heavy Snow, Tornadoes Threaten Parts Of Texas To Kentucky. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 15, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Look, I think when we know more about the other elements that were taken down, which appear to be different in context.

But raise questions about, even if they're private and for commercial purposes, but they're in air space that may have hurt civilian aircraft, we have to have a regime that actually says you can't send things up without some type of identifying signal, responder, without some type of flight plan.

Because, ultimately, we're not -- we're putting commercial flights at risk.

So I think, at some point, when it's all, you know, sorted out, it may be an appropriate time for the president.

But I'm not worried about any UFOs. I'm not worried about any invasion. And I'm not worried about a physical risk to the United States.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: That is a relief to hear.

Senator Bob Menendez, thank you for your time.

MENENDEZ: Thank you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: The Justice Department is trying to force additional testimony from one of former President Trump's attorneys. We'll tell you why. And what this might tell us about the special counsel's investigation.

GOLODRYGA: And as we head to break, live pictures from Kansas City where the Super Bowl winning Chiefs and their fans are holding a well- deserved championship parade.

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[14:35:35] BLACKWELL: Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz will not face charges related to a federal sex trafficking investigation. Justice Department officials were looking into whether he paid for sex or had any sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl.

GOLODRYGA: CNN's Paula Reid broke this story for us.

Paula, what more are you learning?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: In this years'- long investigation, prosecutors were looking at whether the congressman, as you just noted, had sex with an underaged girl, engaged in trafficking and whether he or anyone tried to obstruct this ongoing investigation.

But as we reported in the fall, the people who worked on this case had recommended to leadership at the Justice Department not to proceed with a case.

There were concerns that they were issues with some of the key witnesses here, including the congressman's long-time friend and wing man, Joel Greenberg, who's currently in a federal prison after pleading guilty to several felonies.

There were other witnesses that they were concerned about credibility problems or were reluctant to cooperate.

There were also concerns that many of the key people involved in these alleged events were intoxicated with drugs or alcohol during key moments in the timeline.

So there are concerns they may not be able to prove these charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is also a reluctance at the Justice Department to pursue an obstruction case without the underlying crime.

So based on all these concerns, the leadership of the Justice Department heeded this recommendation and decided not the proceed with any charges here.

BLACKWELL: So, Paula, there are also developments in the investigation into former President Trump, his alleged mishandling of classified documents.

They're trying to -- federal prosecutors are trying to force one of his attorneys to provide some additional grand jury testimony.

Tell us about it.

REID: That's exactly right, Victor. This is one of the most aggressive steps we've seen from special counsel, Jack Smith.

There have been three attorneys representing President Trump who have gone before the special counsel grand jury. And one of them, Evan Corcoran, when he went in, he was asked about

events leading up to the eventual FBI search of the former president's Mar-a-Lago home, and in several of those incidences, he invoked the attorney/client privilege, which is his right, which is what an attorney is expected to do.

But now prosecutors are trying to convince the court to apply one of the few exceptions to attorney/client privilege so he can answer some of these questions.

And they are telling the court in writing that they believe that the former president may have engaged in criminal activity with the help of his lawyer or with his lawyer's advice.

So they were asking the court to apply that exception so they can go back and get more information from this attorney.

BLACKWELL: Paula Reid, thank you so much.

Let's continue the conversation with former U.S. attorney, Harry Litman.

Harry, good to have you.

Let's start with this exception, the crime fraud exception to attorney client privilege. Explain what it is and how rare it is for an application to invoke it.

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: It's not completely rare, Victor, to try to invoke it, but it's fairly rare. And of course, this is Trump, so it shows treating him like any other defendant.

The big point though is it's Trump's words they want. Corcoran fills out that form that said we did a diligent search, turns to the junior attorney, Christina Bobb, and said, sign right here, which she does with a little notation.

They bring him into the grand jury. And because it has to be attorney/client communications, they ask him -- his client here is Trump -- did you and Trump talk about this? What did Trump tell you?

Attorney/client communication. OK, fine. See you in court.

So what they're saying is we believe that we need Trump's statements because those will be -- we have thresholds showing good enough, not criminal, that what he said is evidence of a crime.

What would the crime be? Obstruction of justice by not complying with this subpoena.

So the big point here it's Trump's words they want, and Smith is treating him like any other defendant.

GOLODRYGA: What does that tell you, Harry, about where Smith is taking this case right now?

LITMAN: Well, it tells for one that he's pretty close as we'd thought before. This is the Mar-a-Lago case. Pretty far along the line there.

But it tells me he's really zeroing in on Trump. He wants Trump's words as evidence of a crime. That means he's seriously considering charging Trump, maybe others as well, but definitely Trump is in the cross hairs.

[14:40:06]

BLACKWELL: So if a judge decides to allow this exception, does Trump have any legal recourse?

LITMAN: No. I mean, you could try to appeal it. But that would be unusual.

And assuming it stands, what happens next is Corcoran is called back to the grand jury. What did Trump tell you? Now he has to fess up.

We won't hear it necessarily, this grand jury proceeding, but that will be a big part of the case that Smith is building.

We'll know if he wins the motion or not. We just won't know exactly what Corcoran says until Corcoran reveals it.

GOLODRYGA: All right, Harry Litman, thank you.

We're taking you now to President Biden, who is speaking in Maryland on the economy.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- the Frederick Douglas Tunnel.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Instead of going through at 30, they'll go through it at 110 miles an hour.

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BIDEN: We're going to continue to invest in rail and make it easier for people to use it because that's the potential to take thousands of vehicles off the highways and save millions of thousands in oil and reduce pollution. And that's a fact.

Look, because I've been pushing this for now 25 years. If a first thing you get from point "A" to point "B," faster on rail than in their car, they take rail. Simple as that.

We're also making high speed Internet available across the country. We're already provided affordable access --

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: -- affordable high-speed Internet. We've already made it available to 175,000 homes in Maryland that didn't have it before and we're just getting started.

Because of all of you in this room, you're going to install 500,000 electric charging stations across America.

(APPLAUSE)

(CHEERING)

BIDEN: You, the IBW.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: You put to work tens of thousands of IBW workers making a good, decent wage.

The one thing I want to say for just a second here. It's really important, make it clear, people think the average person out there thinks I want to be IBW worker, and you go to work.

You've essentially got to go back to school. You go to college. Got four years. Four years or more of apprenticeships.

And by the way, it's harder to get into the IBW here in this union right now than it is to go to Harvard University to get in, in terms of the number of people applying and accepted.

One of the reasons why, one of the reasons why I've been so pro union my whole life, you're the best workers in the world. That's not a joke.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: We are. That's a fact.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: That is a fact.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: I spoke at the business roundtable, major companies in America. I said there's a reason they asked why I was so pro union. I said because they save you a lot of money.

No, seriously. You pay more to get the work done. But the work gets done right. Work gets done by the best people in the country. I really mean that.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: With all due respect, I say to leadership, we've got to talk more about that. Because the average person out there doesn't realize how hard it is to get to the place where you become a full-blown union member.

They don't understand. I think you show up and want a job, IBW or labor or whatever it is, and all of a sudden, you're there.

This is going to have a major impact on the environment, what we're doing. Specifically reducing carbon in the air as we begin to move these 500,000 charging stations around the world -- I mean, around the country.

And it's going to take millions of barrels of oil off the road. Each of these charging stations is like rebuilding a gas station, with food and services.

Look, you know, my grandfather Biden, he went to work for a guy who was building gas stations, American Oil Company, back in early 1900s. And that's how we got to Scranton.

He started off in Baltimore then went to New York and Wilmington because people said, wait a minute, I'm not sure we want to put those thousand gallon drums on the ground here in my neighborhood.

But every gas station that got built, what happens? All of a sudden, you have a fast-food store nearby. You build the community. What we're doing with these charging stations is same thing my grand pop did.

I'm not joking. Think about it. You're building communities, little, tiny communities. It builds the region and takes care of things. This is incredible. It's good for the growth as well.

[14:45:01]

Like I said, any charging station installed in the United States of America, guess what, it's going to have to be a made in America product.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: All these projects mean good-paying jobs for electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, laborers, carpenters, cement masons, iron workers and so much more. These are good jobs you can raise a family on.

And most don't need a college degree. But you have the equivalent with all that work you have to do to become a member. Jobs where people don't have to leave home in search of opportunity. You've earned it.

If you all put in at least four years of trained apprenticeships, which is one of the reasons why the United States has the best trained workers in the world. You know, as I said, this is a blue-collar blueprint to rebuild America.

I want to be clear with all of you. We're not just buying American for this thing. For every project we have, every project we're installing, it's going to buy America.

There's a law passed in 1933. Most presidents, Democrats and Republicans, didn't pay much attention to it. It said, if the president is spending taxpayers' dollars hiring

somebody to do something, whether putting a deck on an aircraft carrier or on a railing in a public building, every federal project is supposed to be built by American workers.

Everyone. Using American products, creating American jobs.

Well, guess what? I announced new standards require all construction material used in federal infrastructure project be material made in America.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Made in America.

(APPLAUSE)

GOLODRYGA: We've been listening to the president deliver remarks in Maryland. Just overall talking about this administration's investment in green energy, in bringing jobs back to the United States. Made in America.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of economic message there, the president several times has talked about these 500,000 charging stations as an investment in electrical vehicles across the country.

Let's bring in CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju.

You've got some important economic news, a date, as it relates to the debt ceiling fight.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And the possibility of a debt default, the first ever in U.S. history, if the debt ceiling is not raised.

This is a new estimate by the Congressional Budget Office saying if the debt ceiling is not raised by the summer, there could be a default in July as late as September.

That's the estimate right now. July through September, that's the new timeframe they are now looking at.

That could potentially slip depending on when, how the U.S. fiscal outlook looks after-tax season as well as any other major expenses come from the federal government that changes its projections.

But that is the key moment here. Right now, there is no agreement between how House Republicans and the White House will move on this going forward.

Joe Biden and Senate Democrats have made clear they want the debt ceiling raised without any conditions whatsoever. They have told the speaker that just to simply be done on a clean basis. No conditions. That is unacceptable to McCarthy and the House Republicans. Even the

most moderate Republicans are in line with McCarthy's strategy, which is to negotiate with the White House, to add an array of spending cuts.

They have not yet detailed what cuts they want. They are talking to their own members to come up with a plan to lay out exactly what level of spending cuts they want. But they want far more than the White House on this issue.

So they'll have to figure out some sort of resolution here over the next several weeks to get a deal between the House Republicans and the White House, something that could get 60 votes in the Senate.

Otherwise, they're facing the prospects of the first set of defaults as soon as July.

GOLODRYGA: The date may be a bit extended. The consequences still just as dire.

We want to go to CNN's chief White House correspondent, Phil Mattingly.

Phil, so the administration's not budging. They want a clean debt ceiling bill. And this is coming at a time when the president is announcing a new top economic adviser.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Lael Brainard coming over to run the National Economic Council from the Federal Reserve.

Coming straight into a hot moment when it comes to what needs to get done, what needs to be negotiated and resolved over the course of the next couple of months.

Officials are keenly aware of the dynamics here. The president also elevated Jared Bernstein, who is on the Council 4of Economic Advisers of Council of Economic Advisers, one of his closest and longest serving economic advisers going back to his vice-presidential days.

The team is very aligned in the sense, as you heard Manu, kind of detail there, they understand the dynamics. When you talk to them, they don't, A, believe their bluffing at this point in time and, B, that they have the political high ground here.

[14:50:04]

And the president's speech is a good example of that. You'll see, as he hits these remarks, not unlike what he did at the State of the Union address or what's he's spoken of in the last couple of weeks, are what they believe are very clear accomplishments, clear signs of progress in their first two years.

They'll detail why they believe Republican proposals will undercut that. That's through the lens of trying to draw the contrasts between the two in the lead up to this very high-stakes moment. They'll say they're reshuffling the economic team to some degree.

One thing is consistent, the president, whose message isn't much different than it's been in the last two years, even in the years before that, is really driving the idea from Democrats both here and on the other side of Pennsylvania Avenue, that they don't feel like, politically or policy-wise, they need to negotiate on this at this point.

BLACKWELL: So a few more months potentially until default. But it does not rob the moment of urgency.

Phil Mattingly, Manu Raju, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: There are new concerns over the fallout from that Ohio train derailment after thousands of dead fish surface in the state's waterways. What we're learning about the air and water quality in the wake of the incident, ahead.

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[14:55:42]

GOLODRYGA: Severe weather, including heavy snow and tornados, threatening residents from Texas to Kentucky, and it won't stop there.

BLACKWELL: CNN meteorologist, Jennifer Gray, is here with the storm track.

What are you seeing?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Guys, we're setting the stage for a multi-day severe weather event and, as you mentioned, a wintry side to this.

The area we're watching is back here across portions of Colorado, Texas panhandle. This is where all this is going to get going. This is the energy for this. Already snowing.

As this continues to push to the east, things will start to amplify over the next 24 hours.

We're looking at an overnight threat tonight, severe weather across portions of Texas, Arkansas, pushing into Memphis, and tomorrow shifting farther to the east. You can see a lot of cloud cover, even some spotty storms ahead of this mainline.

Tonight, we'll see the main threat being anywhere from Little Rock to Memphis. This area shaded in orange here.

But we could see storms as far south as Lake Charles, as far as Dallas, even up to Paducah.

This is going to be the main threat for tornadoes. We have the greatest probability of the strongest tornadoes right there through Greenville, Memphis. That's the area to watch throughout the overnight hours.

Late evening into the overnight, storms will be popping up. This threat then shifts to the east tomorrow. The threat won't be over today -- guys?

GOLODRYGA: All right, Jennifer Gray, thank you.

BLACKWELL: A disgraced and defiant George Santos is reportedly talking about some plans for a second term in Congress. Meanwhile, top lawmakers in his own party are plotting to get rid of him. CNN's new reporting is ahead.

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