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Tonight: MSU To Hold Vigil For Mass Shooting Victims; Rep. Julie Brixie (D-MI) Discusses About Gun Laws In Michigan; Buffalo Gunman Sentenced To Life In Prison Without Parole; FAA Chief Can't Guarantee Safety Computer System Won't Collapse Again; Pence: Fight Against DOJ Subpoena Is About "Separation Of Powers". Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 15, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:22]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: You're with us for a brand new hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Good to have you along. I'm Victor Blackwell.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Today ...

BLACKWELL: Today the ...

GOLODRYGA: Excuse me. Go ahead.

BLACKWELL: Thank you. Today the FBI is helping Michigan State University students and staff returns to the buildings where the shooting happened. They're going to recover any personal items today. The campus will stay close until at least Monday. Community leaders, university staff, students also beginning to gather to mourn and show support but also to express an overwhelming sense of outrage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE HICKEY, BIOPHARMATICIAN, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: I think that when 20 kindergarteners were mowed down in Sandy Hook, not much changed and so my hopes are low that something will change now. But I mean we're in a position right now where Democrats are in control of all aspects of the state government right now, so hopefully at least in the state of Michigan, we can make some changes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: A vigil will be held tonight for the three students who died: Brian Fraser, Ariellele Anderson and Alexandria Verner.

GOLODRYGA: Five other students are in the hospital currently fighting for their lives. A verified GoFundMe page says Guadalupe Huapilla-Pere is among them. Her family says she is a junior majoring in hospitality business.

They write: "Doctors tell us that even in improving conditions, the process for a full recovery will take months of care and subsequent rehabilitation."

A student has shared new video that shows the chaotic moments when he and his peers hid in a classroom. The lights turned off you can hear the students arguing over whether or not to unlock the door after they hear a loud knock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) just students outside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey, hey ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're talking to the cops right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell is following this for us today. So Josh, we're also learning that the suspect was previously charged with a felony yet he was still able to purchased not one but two firearms recently.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And let's look at the timeline here.

So back in 2019, this mass shooter is pulled over by police in Michigan. The officer asked him: "Do you have a firearm?" He says, "Yes, I am armed." And he's charged with a felony, because he had a concealed handgun but he did not have a license. That is a felony.

Now eventually, he ends up pleading to a misdemeanor which a lesser charge, the charge there was having a loaded weapon in the vehicle but because he was not convicted of a felony that meant that he was not prohibited from actually going on to buy additional firearms.

Now, we don't know exactly how he got the guns that were used in this mass shooting, but this situation obviously raising questions about the laws there and why didn't this prosecutor actually go for that felony charge. This also was raising questions about this topic we've heard so much about and that is red flag laws. Can someone who's in a shooters orbit actually go to a judge and request that someone - because of the signs, the troubling signs that they're exhibiting actually be prevented from getting firearms.

In this case, I'm going to read for you what the shooter's father told CNN about this downward spiral that his son was in since his mother died two years ago. The father said that ever since my wife died, my son began to change. He was getting more and more bitter. Angry and bitter. So angry. Evil angry. He began really letting himself go." The father also told the police that his son's teeth began to fall

out, his hair began to fall out. So again, this is raising questions about why nothing was done to maybe get this person helped, to bring him to the attention of either authorities or some type of counseling program if it appeared that he was in this downward spiral.

[15:05:05]

A lot of questions that investigators are still looking back trying to get answers to, guys.

BLACKWELL: Josh Campbell with the reporting for us. Josh, thank you very much.

Let's bring in now Michigan State Representative Julie Brixie. She represents East Lansing.

Representative, thank you for being with us.

I wonder in this moment when you and university officials are trying to reassure the students that they are safe, that they will be safe, what the message is and what should change, if anything? I mean, the point of a big state school campus is that there's freedom, there's freedom of movement and interaction, but when you have this threat, does that change at all?

REP. JULIE BRIXIE (D-MI): It does change. It really is a terrible violation of a place that's kind of a sanctuary and a place that, for so many, represents joy, and fun, and learning and the beginning and of what's to come. Kids go away to college and they get to their campus and a lot of times, it's kind of the first time they've been on their own, and you have the great, wide open world ahead of you and everything is a possibility. And an event like this is just so shattering of all of that and tragic, and unnecessary and uniquely American.

GOLODRYGA: And you tweeted that we must stop tolerating these horrific acts. In 2021, you introduced a house bill that would ban firearms from places like banks, churches, courts, theaters and sports arena, it never passed. But now with the Democrats, the majority in the state, are you going to bring this legislation back up for a vote and would you include schools and university campuses in that?

BRIXIE: So interestingly enough, we have gun free zones here in Michigan, but we have legislation that was so poorly written that if you own a concealed carry permit, you can open carry in those places. And Second Amendment rights have been a really bitter fight here in our state and we're just coming off of over a decade of Republican control in both the House and the Senate.

So this year is the first opportunity that we'll - have had to make meaningful change. We have - Democrats have a huge priority of this issue. It's wrong that our kids are going to school in a place that should be a safe haven and a sanctuary and they're having to learn how to barricade themselves from active shooters while they're learning fractions and long division. It's not acceptable that we have been tolerating this as a state and a

nation and we will ...

BLACKWELL: So what is the meaningful action then? You said you will act, that it's time for a meaningful action ...

BRIXIE: Enact ...

BLACKWELL: ... what - do you know what the action is?

BRIXIE: Right. Yes, the very first things are extreme risk protection laws, where a family member or someone can report someone who's having some kind of a mental health crisis. It could be a domestic violence situation or it could be just an observation of a parent on their loved one that needs help. And these extreme risk protection orders are very helpful for all different kinds of gun violence, including suicide, which really takes a lot of lives in our nation.

The other thing that we need to do is we need to work on universal background checks. Our laws are only - and furthermore, our laws are only as good as what our neighboring states do, right?

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BRIXIE: So the safe storage, universal background checks and extreme risk protection orders are the three things that are kind of right away make very much common sense to implement.

BLACKWELL: All right.

BRIXIE: We have a lot more than that, that we're planning and working on and I'm confident that we're going to be taking further steps than that. But in this space, in this time in the last 48 hours, I've been focusing on helping the students and staff ...

GOLODRYGA: Of course.

BRIXIE: ... get mental health resources that they need.

GOLODRYGA: Well, keep us up to speed on anything that you will introduce. I know this is personal for you not just as a state representative, but you're an alumnus and your husband worked at MSU.

[15:10:00]

So we appreciate your time and our condolences again. Michigan State Representative, Julie Brixie.

BLACKWELL: The man who fatally shot 10 black people in a racist attack at a grocery store last year was sentenced to life in prison for each of his 10 victims.

GOLODRYGA: And today during victim impact statements in that Buffalo courtroom, we saw an incredibly emotional moment when an unidentified man suddenly lunged toward the convicted killer. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love our kids. We're never go in no neighborhoods and take people out.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN's Omar Jimenez has been following today's hearing. And Omar, that was just so emotional and difficult to watch. What more are you hearing about it?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, look, this was an emotional hearing from the start. I mean, he knew it was going to be. There were up to 17 victim impact statements that were on the books and we knew that the day was going to be for a lot of these families reliving and reprocessing what had happened now back in May 2022, but this time in the face of the person who took their loved ones.

Now, that moment came while a woman named Barbara Massey was speaking. She's the sister of 72-year-old Katherine Massey, who was killed in the Buffalo shooting. The person who ended up charging is believed to be a member of their family. But I want to play a moment from one of the other families who spoke and just take a listen to how she processed, she lost a cousin and an aunt that day.

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MICHELLE SPIGHT, LOST AUNT AND COUSIN IN BUFFALO MASS SHOOTING: I hope you spend the rest of your life every second, every minute, every hour, rehearsing the daunting sound of the screams and the echoes of the lives you snuffed out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And she was reading on behalf of Margus Morrison's brother. Margus was a 52-year-old killed in this.

BLACKWELL: The killer spoke today, what did he say?

JIMENEZ: Yes, there was a big question on whether he would speak or not. He said he was sorry. He said he acted out of hates. I just want to play a little bit of what he had to say.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAYTON GENDRON: I did a terrible thing that day. I shot and killed people because they were black. Looking back now, I can't believe I actually did it. I believed what I read online and acted out of hate. I know I can't take it back, but I wish I could.

(END VIDEO CLIP) JIMENEZ: And while he said that, not many people, I should say,

there was a significant amount of people in the audience that didn't buy it, because - especially for those family members. One person as soon as he finished, yelled from the background, he doesn't mean it, he doesn't mean it. Another person said that how could he say he's sorry, when he planned this months in advance. He filmed it and then he still executed all of these people.

And keep in mind, the death penalty is still on the table for a federal - for a set of federal charges he's facing. This was - these were charges that were decided at the state level or sentence rather.

BLACKWELL: Obviously, a very emotional day for all those families, the entire community of Buffalo. Omar Jimenez, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Thanks, Omar.

We have some sad news into CNN, award winning actress and author Raquel Welch has died. Welch starred in more than 40 films and was known as one of Hollywood's last sex symbols.

BLACKWELL: CNN Entertainment Reporter Chloe Melas is here. What do we know?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: She was such a trailblazer and it's such a sad news. So we've just confirmed that at 82 years young, she passed away in Los Angeles after a brief illness. We don't know what the illness was. But this was a woman that not only became a sex symbol, but was a great actress and she really paved the way and opened the doors for so many of our actresses today, also so talented.

I was just watching a clip of her performing with Cher and singing and she was on Broadway and she did so many wonderful things. And she won awards and she was just this incredible actress. And this is really shocking a lot of people, because again, 82 years old, she had starred in projects even just a few years ago, she was still actively working.

So we don't know what this brief illness is and what exactly happened, but again, a big shock to so many people. And she starred - she rose to fame in the film One Million Years B.C., right? And do you guys remember that poster that made her famous ...

GOLODRYGA: Yes, we do. We do.

MELAS: ... in that bikini that goes down as one of the ...

GOLODRYGA: Running on the beach there.

MELAS: ... hundred most famous bikinis in that deerskin bikini. She only had a few lines in that film, but it was obviously what she wore. But she went on to star in so many films, and like I said had so many lives in Hollywood, so many friends, so many positive things is what people always had to say about her.

[15:15:03] I'm sad I never got a chance to interview her but at CNN we've spoken

to her before, covered her career for decades and again really sad news today.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. A talented actress and just stunningly beautiful from her youth up until even that she age (inaudible) gracefully, yes.

MELAS: And a pioneer. A pioneer, talented too.

GOLODRYGA: Chloe Melas, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

MELAS: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Donald Trump officially has his first primary opponent after his former U.N. Ambassador, Nikki Haley kicks off her campaign in South Carolina. We'll have more on that just ahead.

BLACKWELL: And flights grounded, near runway collisions, a complete holiday meltdown, those are, of course, some of the issues the FAA chief had to answer questions about on Capitol Hill today. We'll tell you what he's saying.

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BLACKWELL: The acting head of the FAA says he cannot guarantee there will not be another air safety computer system crisis like the one that we saw last month that temporarily halted all flights across the country.

GOLODRYGA: Billy Nolen testified today in a Senate hearing and told lawmakers he's ordered a sweeping safety review following recent events like the one in January and several other near plane collisions.

CNN's Gabe Cohen seen as Dave Cohen is here with more on today's hearing.

So what will the safety review include?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, Bianna, the head of the FAA outlined a couple aspects of this. One is a safety summit that the FAA is planning for next month with industry partners to try to game plan some solutions to make the industry a little bit safer and they're going to be digging through flight data to look for trends to try to figure out if more of these incidents are happening than we realize.

Now, with regard to today's hearing, the focus was really on that NOTAM system that failed last month, which led to the first nationwide ground stop since 911. And it was caused by human error, by someone accidentally deleting files during system maintenance. So the FAA's acting administrator, Billy Nolen, took a lot of questions about that. And he said the agency expects to be fully transitioned to a new more modern system by 2025.

And in the meantime they have put in some safeguards that he says should prevent another repeat of this, so a ground stop, another potential ground stop. Take a listen to what he told lawmakers.

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BILL NOLEN, ACTING FAA CHIEF: We do have redundancy there. Could I sit here today and tell you there will never be another issue on the NOTAM system? No, sir, I cannot. What I can say is that we are making every effort to modernize and look at our procedures.

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COHEN: And we have just learned that the NTSB is now investigating yet another incursion, another close call, the third one in recent weeks. This one on January 23rd at Honolulu International Airport, where according to the NTSB, a United 777 crossed a runway and conflicted with a Cessna that was trying to land, that was landing at that time. No damage or injuries reported.

But Victor, Bianna, yet another example of aviation safety really under the microscope right now.

BLACKWELL: Tough time. Gabe Cohen, thanks for the reporting.

GOLODRYGA: While Congressman George Santos mulls his - get this - reelection prospects, top Republicans are plotting to oust him. We'll have the new CNN reporting up next.

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[15:27:01]

GOLODRYGA: This just in to CNN, former Vice President Mike Pence told reporters that he is pushing back on the special counsel subpoena that requires him to testify about the January 6th attack. He's calling it an issue of separation of powers.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Jessica Schneider has the reporting for us.

It's the first time that we've heard from the former Vice President on this.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is. The vice - the former vice president is on the road today. He made these remarks in Minneapolis. He's later expected to go to Iowa. This is the first time we're hearing from Mike Pence about his plans to fight the subpoena that was issued by Special Counsel Jack Smith. It's something that our team did report on that Mike Pence would be fighting this subpoena.

But now the former vice president is confirming it and he's been saying this, he's saying my fight is on the separation of powers. My fight against the DOJ subpoena very simply is on defending the prerogatives that I had as President of the Senate to preside over the joint session of Congress in January on January 6th.

So what the former vice president is saying here and that we had previously reported is that he, in fact, will be fighting this subpoena on the grounds of the speech or debate clause. This is a clause that protects legislatures from testifying on issues that are linked with their legislative duties.

And although the former vice president was serving in the executive branch, he will be arguing that on January 6th and leading up to it, he was also simultaneously serving in the legislative branch as President of the Senate. And he'll say that his conversations with the former President Trump and others leading up to January 6th, they're all protected. Presumably that's what he'll argue in court.

This is notable because Mike Pence will have a legal fight on his hands as he moves forward, potentially announcing his presidential bid for 2024. This could really muddy the waters for him in the next few months on the legal front here as he simultaneously works in the political realm.

We've seen, guys, other lawmakers actually fight subpoenas on similar grounds. We previously saw Sen. Lindsey Graham fight his subpoena from the Fulton County DA down in Georgia. He won in some respects, lost in some respects, the court said that he still had to testify, but he could limit his testimony.

So we could see a similar court fight play out, a similar conclusion, but it really will draw the former vice president into a court battle. At the same time, guys, as he mulls this decision as to whether or not to run for president in 2024.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and the length of that fight, of course, will be crucial as it kind of butts up to the time when he'd have to make that decision.

SCHNEIDER: Exactly .

BLACKWELL: But Lindsey Graham fight really didn't take very long in the scope of some of these fights. Jessica Schneider, thanks so much for the reporting.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, despite the mounting web of lies, scandals and legal issues, embattle congressman, George Santos, remains defiant. And now CNN is learning that he's already - already looking ahead to a second term.

[15:30:02]

BLACKWELL: So he insists that he'll be cleared of all wrongdoing as he thinks about a reelection bid.