Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

MSU Victims Identified; New Details on MSU Gunman; Haley to Officially Kick off Campaign; Retail Sales Surged in January; Michael Regan is Interviewed about the Dangerous Derailment in Ohio. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired February 15, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:32]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

We begin this hour with new details about the victims and also the gunman in that deadly mass shooting at Michigan State University.

First, the three people killed who have now been identified, and so young. Twenty-year-old Brian Fraser, 19-year-old Arielle Anderson and 20-year-old Alexandria Verner.

The 43-year-old gunman, we've learned, apparently did leave behind a note and a criminal history that includes a gun charge. But what is still unknown this morning, the motive, and also how he got the firearm, which was reportedly used in the shooting.

SCIUTTO: I'll tell you, you look at pictures of their kids, you think of their poor families.

Also ahead this morning, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley makes the first stop of her 2024 presidential campaign. We're going to take you live to Charleston, South Carolina.

And just in, a key report shows that retail sales surged in January, beating expectations. More signs of a very strong economy.

We do begin, though, this morning in Michigan with more on the shooting that has left that campus, that community, yet one more campus, yet one more community grieving.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus and Josh Campbell join us.

Adrienne, you know, like I said, you look at those pictures of those young people, three young lives snuffed out, their families are suffering, their friends are suffering. What more do we know about them? ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think about those parents,

parents who will now plan funerals instead of celebrations. I think about my friends who come back and return to campus. Normally we come here to celebrate homecoming, but now we are focusing on the victims and recognizing their lives.

Behind me, this is the Sparty statue. It's at the center of campus. And Sparty is known as a symbol of strength. And strength is what those families are looking for.

We heard from the aunt of one of the victims. And we're talking about Arielle Anderson. She was among the killed. Her aunt sharing these beautiful photos, saying in part that her family is broken in pieces. And she asked the question, have you ever met a person who is simply pure in heart? That was Ari, who they affectionately called for short. She never raised her voice past a whisper or a gentle laugh. She also called the shooter a coward.

The other two who we are remembering, Alexandria Verner and Brian Fraser.

Fraser was the president of his fraternity and Verner was a star athlete in her high school. We heard from their coach and superintendent.

Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY HORNE, CLAWSON HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL COACH: We're struggling. We're all struggling here at the high school because of what an incredible person that Al was.

BILLY SHELLENBARGER, CLAWSON PUBLIC SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT: She was a gift to this -- this place, to us. And in her 20 years, 15 of which I knew her, met her in this gym when she was five. She's a - she's a -- she's a life changer for - for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And at this hour five other students are still listed in critical condition. And thoughts are also with them and their families. Four of them had to have emergency surgery following those shootings on Monday night.

Jim.

HILL: Adrienne, thank you.

Josh, there are still so many questions to the why, of course, is chief among them. What more do we know about the suspect here, Josh?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erica, so authorities say that the 43-year-old shooter who died by suicide after that self- inflicted gunshot wound had no affiliation with Michigan State University. And so the question remains at this hour, why MSU? Now, police say the suspect did have a note in his pocket that

threatened other shootings, hundreds of miles away in New Jersey, and he reportedly had suffered from mental health issues in the past. But no specific motive yet.

Now, his father spoke to CNN and described a downward spiral his son went into after the death of his mother. The father told CNN, quote, ever since my wife died, my son began to change. He was getting more and more bitter. Angry and bitter. So angry. Evil angry. He began to really let himself go.

Now, the father went on to say the suspect's teeth had began falling out. His hair began falling out. And, of course, gun violence researchers tell us that in so many of these mass shootings, suspects exhibit concerning behaviors prior to their attacks. And so another question at this hour, why weren't those concerns reported to police.

[09:05:01]

Now, on the weapon used in this attack, authorities are still working to determine how he obtained it. Court records do show that he was arrested in 2019 and charged with a felony for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. He later pled guilty to a misdemeanor for possession of a loaded firearm and spent a year and a half on probation. But, of course, guys, a misdemeanor doesn't prevent someone from later buying a gun. That requires a felony conviction.

Jim and Erica.

SCIUTTO: Well, you might call all those things red flags, right?

CAMPBELL: Yes. Right.

SCIUTTO: And yet he got a gun and he murdered.

Adrienne Broaddus, Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

CAMPBELL: You bet.

SCIUTTO: In just hours, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley will formally launch her 2024 bid for the White House a little more than four years after she resigned as U.S. ambassador to the U.N. under former President Trump. Haley is now the first Republican to challenge her former boss for the GOP nomination.

HILL: CNN's Kylie Atwood is in Charleston this morning, where Haley is set to kick off her campaign officially today.

And we're having -- we have a little bit more information now about who else will be there with her, Kylie, including who's introducing her. What have you learned?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. One of the folks who's going to be on stage introducing the former ambassador to the U.N., the former governor of this state, is Cindy Warmbier. And she is the mother of Otto Warmbier. He is an American who was detained in North Korea in 2017. And then when he got back, when he was released, he actually died days later. And Cindy Warmbier sat down with Nikki Haley when she was ambassador to the United Nations and she credits Nikki Haley with giving her what she says is the strength that she needed to actually stand up to the North Korean regime after that awful death of her son. She says that after talking to Nikki Haley, she went into fighter mode. And so that will be an interesting story for folks in this room to hear today.

And another person that we'll be watching for is Ralph Norman. He is a congressman from South Carolina. He came out just this morning endorsing Nikki Haley. He is the first member of Congress from this state to endorse her. And he has historically been an ally of former President Trump, who is, of course, Nikki Haley's contestant in this race. And what he said in a statement is that America is better off for what Trump accomplished, but he says there's no doubt that a season of change is coming for the party. He thinks Nikki Haley is the best person to be at the top of the ticket for that season of change.

But Trump has already gotten a number of endorsements in this state, of course, including Senator Lindsey Graham being one of them. And so the question is, how much support can she garner, particularly early in this race when folks are really waiting to see how the actual field shakes out right now. Some folks who support her say they're just not ready to hop in yet.

So, what we're watching for today is for her to tell her story. We're expecting her to talk about the fact that she grew up here in South Carolina. She was the daughter of two Indian immigrants. She didn't grow up as black. She didn't grow up as white. She, in her words, in a video she put out yesterday, was different. She'll talk about those challenges. But she'll also call for the renewal of pride in America. That is something that is a traditional, you know, Republican value. She'll call for fiscal conservatism, securing the border. Traditional Republican values.

And then she will make the case of this need for a new generation of leadership in the Republican Party, arguing that she has the expertise, being a former two-time governor of this state, to do that job.

SCIUTTO: Kylie Atwood there in Charleston, South Carolina, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, senior contributor to "Axios," Margaret Talev, and CNN political commentator Kristen Soltis Anderson.

Good to have you both on this morning.

Kristen, I wonder, when you look at Haley, she's long appeared to try to have it both ways. Not publicly condemning her former boss' worst faults, but also not endorsing them. And this is a strategy we've seen other Republicans try to carry out.

I just wonder, does that work in a Republican primary? Has it proven so far - and, obviously, we have a long way to go here -- to please anyone? KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Nikki Haley's

campaign should be about Nikki Haley. It shouldn't be about Donald Trump. And that goes for either condemning or endorsing him. Her campaign should be about the things that she wants to do for the country moving forward. She's someone who for over a decade has been talked about as the future of the Republican Party. So, it's important for her to make the case that the future is now. That there is no more, you know, time for waiting to turn the page, to move to a new era of winning. She talked in her announcement video yesterday about how Republicans have lost seven out of the eight popular votes in the last president elections. That it's time to pick someone who can be at the top of the ticket, bring about a new era of winning to the Republican Party. I think that's a smart message for her to embrace.

HILL: She may not want to get sucked into the Trump black hole. But, Margaret, the reality is, while she did have a political career prior to Donald Trump, a lot of that career is also tied to the former president.

[09:10:05]

So, Margaret, how does she effectively make that break?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Erica, I think that's right. And when you look at the staging of this campaign announcement today, you start to see the beginnings of her strategy. You have the mother of a young man who died at the hands of North Korea. And that woman is saying, Nikki Haley is the person who gave her strength.

Then you've got Ralph Norman, a member of the Freedom Caucus, an ally of Donald Trump, saying he's going to stand with Nikki Haley. It's time for a generational change.

And then you've got the location. And my colleague, Josh Kraushaar, at "Axios," has been sort of looking into this, that she is in Charleston. She's blocks away from the Mother Emanuel Church, where, of course, those mass shootings at an African American church at the hands of a racist in 2015, not just galvanized the country, it was a national moment of mourning, a bipartisan moment for action, but also prompted Nikki Haley to make what was at the time a very controversial decision in South Carolina, at least to take down the confederate flag at the state capitol.

So, in a way she's positioning herself as the next generation, but in a way she's also positioning herself as kind of a return to more of the old school Republican values.

SCIUTTO: Right.

TALEV: The idea of sort of honor, strength of country, less of this populism messaging. We'll see where it goes. I think her ties to Trump are problematic for that narrative. But this is the message she's trying to convey as she comes out of the starting gate here.

SCIUTTO: Kristen, one thing this shows is that folks in the Republican Party are willing to challenge Trump for the nomination. You have his former vice president considering a run. You have Tim Scott, also from South Carolina, exploring a run. Ron DeSantis certainly, though not announced, in that space.

Is this going to be a wide-open race for the Republican nomination?

ANDERSON: Well, Donald Trump starts off with about one-third of the party that is ride or die. They are with him no matter what. No matter who else jumps into the race. They love him. They believe he should have been president after the 2020 election, and they want to see him return to the White House.

But that's about two-thirds of the party left. And many of those folks like Donald Trump. They thought he was a good president. And many of them may ultimately decide to vote for him if there are other options that just don't wind up being as appealing.

But I do think that there is an opportunity, if the field can consolidate behind, you know, one or two really strong candidates as we head into the primary, you know, Donald Trump may be tempted to run the 2016 playbook where he just tries to get that 30 percent, and that's enough because the field is splintered. But I think there are enough other Republicans who say, look, we can't go down that road again. That -- I can see Republicans deciding, look, we like him, but let's try something different this time.

HILL: Kristen Soltis Anderson, Margaret Talev, good to see you both this morning. Thank you.

TALEV: Thanks.

ANDERSON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: All right, this just into CNN. New numbers out this morning show that retail sales surged last month, up by 3 percent. Economists anticipated a rise just half as much, 1.8 percent, after a decline, actually, in retail sales for December, as customers battled inflation. More good news for the economy.

HILL: CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans is here.

So, you know, we always want to know what this means overall. Is this more than just, I'm taking advantage of the post-Christmas sales in January?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's the American consumer defying gravity. I mean this is post-Christmas sales, post- holiday sales. It is higher prices because of inflation, and that makes these retail sales numbers go higher because they aren't adjusted for inflation. But even if you look at that, you're looking at huge buying of cars, you know, at restaurants and bars. This is reopening-type consumer activity.

In fact, when you look at those numbers, that 3 percent gain, that is a big month to month gain for retail sales. And that's the biggest since March 2021. So, this is a blowout report. And it shows us that the American consumer in polls keep saying how lousy they feel about things and they're worried about a recession, but they're not acting like it at all. They're spending their money and they have the money to spend.

We know that minimum wages rose in a whole bunch of states in the month. We know that there was an adjustment in the Social Security checks because of the cost of living increase. Almost 9 percent cost of living increase. And so - in millions of Social Security checks. And we know the job market is still really strong here. So, all of these factors are really holding up the American consumer.

And, as you know, the American economy is held up by the American consumer. Two-thirds of economic growth is consumer spending. So, this is a strong number. And it raises big questions for the Fed. The Fed has been raising interest rates trying to cool the economy, and this is a hot number, guys.

HILL: See how that translates.

Christine, appreciate it. Thank you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

HILL: Just ahead, more than 3,000 fish have turned up dead in Ohio after that train derailment just under two weeks ago involving a host of toxic chemicals. Folks living in the area have been told the air is safe, they can go home, but they should drink bottled water for the time being. They have plenty of unanswered questions. We're going to try to get some of them answered when the EPA administrator join us.

[09:15:01]

SCIUTTO: Yes. Goodness, that's not a good sign right there.

Plus, I have new reporting about Russia's plans to launch a spring offensive in Ukraine. Why the U.S. and its allies say they are unlikely to be successful at taking any major ground. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Is it safe to drink the water this morning, to breathe the air in your home? Those are the questions many in East Palestine, Ohio, are asking after a train carrying hazardous materials derailed nearly two weeks ago, triggering a temporary evacuation. The EPA told residents it was safe to return home last week. Many, though, tell CNN they are still worried about what may have been left behind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM STEWART, RESIDENT: I don't recommend you put anything in the ground. I mean, vegetables or tomatoes or anything this year because we don't know.

TANGIE MOHRBACHER, RESIDENT: We pass all of the creeks and there's crew after crew with white hoses and black hoses all through the creeks. They're not telling us why. And this is - this is daily. I'm driving my children to school past all of this and they're asking me questions that I don't have answers to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:20:06]

HILL: Ohio Governor Mike DeWine was asked just a short time ago on "CNN THIS MORNING" if residents and their water are safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): We think these deep wells are fine, but they're not going to have a problem, but we can't tell them that until the tests come back. And so waiting for the tests, we've advised, drink bottled water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The Ohio EPA's onsite coordinator has said he's confident any residual contaminants are being contained. EPA Administrator Michael Regan joining me now.

Good to have you with us this morning, sir.

So, you know, a lot of questions here. We're going to try to get as many answered for folks at home as possible.

We heard Governor DeWine there stressing that the well water tests are ongoing. These early tests have shown that it's safe. But he said, out of an abundance caution, keep drinking bottled water until all of that testing comes back.

Was it irresponsible for officials to tell folks they could go home before having those test results?

MICHAEL REGAN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: Well, good morning, Erica.

And, you know, the state has the primacy and the lead. We are in support -- in a support mode. And I don't think it was irresponsible. I think that we have deployed lots of assets from the very beginning.

I want to thank the emergency responders who have done a great job in ensuring that there's no loss of life. And I can say that at EPA we've deployed aerial air monitoring planes, we've deployed mobile vans that are doing air monitoring in these communities. We also have tested over 460 homes. We'll do another 28 today. And we're working on scheduling another 27 appointments.

We're also supporting the state in its water quality monitoring. And I agree with the governor's assessment, remain on bottled water until those tests are complete.

HILL: And he was talking specifically about the well water there. What about rivers and streams? You know, we just -- we heard from a resident there who says that she drives her kids to schools. She sees all of this piping. She sees things happening in the rivers and streams and she can't get an answer as to what is going on there. Is that testing?

REGAN: You know, we should be able to give an answer. What you're seeing is a government in action. We are testing. We are evaluating. We are inspecting.

Listen, we understand the fears that the community have. As a father of a nine-year-old son, as a son of parents over 70, these are questions that any person in America would have facing this situation. And what we'd like to convey is, we understand the concern. But rest assured local, state and federal officials are devoting vast resources, responding very quickly to these concerns to ensure that communities are protected.

HILL: So, you mentioned that that testing is happening of rivers and streams. When will those results be made available?

REGAN: You know, Erica, as we get those results in, and as we confer with the state, those results are being made via the state and federal websites. We are doing - conducting and I --

HILL: Do you have a timeline or a sense, though, for people? I mean, even if you can't give me an exact date, will they have them this week? Is it next week? How long will they need to wait?

REGAN: Well, you know, Erica, based on the various tests that we're doing, as they become available, we are making them publicly available. We want to be sure that we do thorough tests. And so, you know, I would defer people to the state who, has the primacy lead on water updates. But, rest assured, the federal government is deploying vast resources to support the test - the state in doing these tests.

HILL: We also heard a gentleman -- and you may have heard him just before we came to you who said he wouldn't plant anything in the ground for at least a year. He's very concerned about soil contamination.

So, I've spent some time on the local Ohio EPA website there looking at what's being put up by the onsite - the onsite contamination folks. I am not finding, in my search, information on soil testing. Is the soil being tested?

REGAN: Erica, it is. And let's just -- you know, what we should say up front is, we are shifting into the cleanup mode. And so, number one, we've issued a letter of liability to Norfolk Southern. They will be responsible and accountable for this cleanup. And as we do the testing and as we conduct the clean-up, we will be able to inform the public as to when it's safe for some of these various activities that they'd like to pursue. This is fresh and we understand everyone's concerned.

HILL: Sure.

REGAN: But we are with the community.

HILL: Right. So, to that point, and that you'll let people know when they can resume some of the activities, as you point out, this morning what would you say to that gentleman who told us, I wouldn't plant tomatoes for the next year? Would you advice that he do any planting this spring?

REGAN: You know, Erica, I'd be realistic. This is a fresh site of a disaster. And as we go in, as we assess and as we clean up, we want the public to know that when we know they will know.

[09:25:01]

So, obviously, I would not take any immediate action on a fresh site until the government has the opportunity to go in, invest, and clean it up to the appropriate level so that we can insure public health is protected and lives are protected.

HILL: So, I understand this is ongoing and I know that you understand for the folks on the ground, they get that, but they also need real answers. This has been a really difficult two weeks for them. Do you have any sense given that, in your words, this is an ongoing cleanup, can you give them any sort of a timeline when you believe you can say to them definitively it's safe?

REGAN: You know, Erica, what I'd say is, this is a fresh accident. We understand the community's angst. We are on the ground. We will conduct the cleanup. But we have to be able to get in and do the assessment. So, as the conditions on the ground become safe so that we can put our scientists and engineers not in harm's way but in a position where they can do their work, we will be then in a position to provide those updates to the public as soon as we can.

You know, we're going to keep the public updated. We have people on the ground now. And so we want to be transparent, Erica.

HILL: So, a couple of other real quick questions before I lose you for timing here. You just said that as the conditions become safe you'll send in your teams. Are there any areas at this point in time which you believe are still unsafe?

REGAN: Well, you know, it's an emergency response. And so obviously we want to be sure that we do not put anyone in harm's way, including our staff. So as we investigate --

HILL: So, is that a yes?

REGAN: As we investigate and as we look at the site, we will determine when and how we can get the appropriate staff in to do the appropriate testing.

HILL: OK. Well, as we're waiting for that, there are also these questions about some 3,500 fish across 12 different species which have died in the waterways following the train derailment. According to Ohio's department - director, rather, of the Department of Natural Resources. Are there plans to test those dead fish and also the reported dead chickens and foxes?

REGAN: You know, the state has taken the lead on that. We are providing the support to do the tests. But it's my understanding from the government, from the team (ph) that --

HILL: Do you believe -- so, you believe those tests should be done?

REGAN: The state has the lead on that. They are - they are conducting the investigations to determine the impacts to wildlife. And we will provide as much support to the state as possible.

HILL: So -

REGAN: But the state has the lead on that.

HILL: So, they have the lead, but have they confirmed to you that they are actually doing that testing?

REGAN: They have confirmed to us that they are investigating and doing an investigation on the impacts to wildlife. The specifics, in terms of the types of tests, I don't -

HILL: OK, but not the tests at this point?

REGAN: The specificity in terms of the types of tests, I don't have that information, but that doesn't mean the state isn't doing it.

HILL: You know, I have to say, I was surprised to hear from Governor DeWine yesterday. He said that state officials weren't told that the train was considered high hazardous material train because it was only some, not all of the cars that contained some of these materials. I think most Americans look at that and they would be scratching their head, myself among them. If there's even one train car that has hazardous materials, should that not be known? Should it not be -- should folks not be made aware?

REGAN: You know, I think that's a good question for Congress. I - I can tell you that all of the materials on that train are detectable by our advanced technology, aerial, mobile and stationary. So, the chemicals that were on that train, we have been able to focus on determining whether or not there are elevated levels that would impact human health. That's our focus, protecting public health, and that's what we're doing.

HILL: Michael Regan, appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you. We look forward to these results as they come in.

REGAN: Thank you, Erica.

SCIUTTO: Important conversation there.

Still ahead, as we look at Russia's strategy around Ukraine, a disturbing new report of Russian camps holding thousands of Ukrainian children, forcing adoptions, even training them on firearms. The allegations that could amount to more war crimes. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)