Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden: "Nothing Suggests" Last 3 Objects Were Related To China; Grand Jury Believes Some 2020 Election Witnesses Lied; Tesla Recalls 362,000 Plus Vehicles Over Self-Driving Crash Risk; EPA Chief Pledges To Hold Train Company Accountable. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 16, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, physicians do sometimes - at an annual visit for an older person - do some kind of an assessment to detect any cognitive impairment. We will find out if this is mentioned in the report that's supposed to come out later this afternoon if President Biden had that.

Now, I want to take advantage of the President's physical to talk about colon cancer screening since we know that he had it back in 2021. Let's take a look at when all of us are supposed to be getting screened for colon cancer. Younger than 45, start if you're younger than 45 if you have a family history of colon cancer, Crohn's disease, et cetera, start at 45 to 76 for most people get screened with a colonoscopy or there are other tests as well, ages 76 to 85. Talk about whether you should be getting screened. Bianna? Victor?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: All right. All right, some good advice and guidance. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

It is the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

President Biden has finally addressed the National Security mystery 10s of thousands of feet in the skies. The three unidentified flying objects American fighter jet shot down last weekend, a move never seen before from the U.S. Military. He spoke after days of bipartisan calls that he should share more with the American people about the concerns.

GOLODRYGA: The President says his experts do not think the aerial objects are Chinese spy balloons like the one brought down off the coast of South Carolina. He added the best guess since no debris has yet been recovered is that the mystery objects are tied to private research.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to be clear, we don't have any evidence that there has been a sudden increase in the number of objects in the sky number of objects in the sky. We're now just seeing more of them partially because the steps we've taken to increase our radar. I've directed my team to come back to me with sharper rules for how we will deal with these unidentified objects moving forward, distinguishing between those that are likely to pose safety and security risks that necessitate action and those that do not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Phil Mattingly is at the White House and CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon.

Phil, beginning with you. There has been a lot of criticism from Republicans and some Democrats that this president hasn't been transparent enough about these objects. Do you think that he did his job in alleviating some of that criticism?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think part of the reason the President hadn't spoken up to this point is really there's a couple levels to it. First is they didn't have a lot of information, they still don't have a lot of information, in terms of what those three objects that were shot down over the course of three days actually worse. They're waiting to get a better sense of things.

Yesterday announced to the Intelligence Community had a theory, a leading theory that they were benign and that gave them some comfort in terms of the ability to come out and speak with some authority about what had been shut down. But I think they also wanted to let kind of the fury in the spiral of events ease up a little bit.

So the President could deliver kind of a sober, very steadfast message about where things stood, what was going to happen next and what the process had been both in the lead up to the shutdowns and then what the process will be in the wake of that. You heard that from the President today and that was what his aides pretty much wanted him to communicate.

I would say the other critical element here and probably the most critical was what the President was saying, in relation to China, in relation to how the U.S. addressed the Chinese spy balloon that was shut down. But also that relationship going forward probably the most important geopolitical relationship at this moment in time.

The President saying he plans to speak with Chinese leader Xi Jinping soon. We don't know exactly when that will be or if it's officially on the books yet. But also making clear that despite what's very clearly something that U.S. officials weren't expecting and were very displeased by it is not having a massively negative impact on the relationship, and that they want to continue the open lines of communication that are so critical.

That was a message that wasn't just to the American public, I think, to some degree the Chinese officials as well.

BLACKWELL: Oren, the President said that his experts do not believe that these objects are related to China's spy balloons. How can the Pentagon be certain or confident considering there's so much of the debris that has not been recovered?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: And that's an excellent point. There is no absolute certainty on this one, because the administration and the Pentagon have made clear, the only will have absolute certainty if and when they recover these three objects. One off the northern coast of Alaska, one in the Yukon territory, Northwest Canada and one possibly now at the bottom of Lake Huron.

So no easier to get just because it's within the continental United States. They pointed to the recovery as the way of getting definitive answers, and yet the administration has already raised the possibility that they may not be able to recover these objects for final answers.

And yet there is some information, first of all, from the radar tracks that allowed the U.S. to follow them at the very beginning and then the fighter jets that weren't able to see these, even though they were flying by them at tremendous speeds, especially compared to the movement of the objects. There were fighter pilots who had eyes on it. There were the sensors that were detecting this before the shoot down.

[15:05:00]

So there is some information whether we get a look at that is an entirely different question, but there is at least some information to base this off of.

But if you look back at how President Joe Biden worded his statement here, he built in some of that uncertainty. He said, nothing right now suggests they were related to China's spy program. The Intelligence Community's current assessment is that these three objects were most likely balloons, so there is still some uncertainty and it's an open question how much of that can they close, because without recovering the objects, there's no way to definitively answer these questions right now.

BLACKWELL: All right. Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, Phil Mattingly at the White House, thank you.

Donald Trump's campaign is doubling down on the statement that the former president did absolutely nothing wrong after excerpts were released from Georgia special grand jury report today. It was looking into the attempts by Trump and his allies to overturn the results of Georgia's 2020 election.

Much of the report was redacted.

GOLODRYGA: But the jurors did recommend prosecutors filed charges of perjury. Seventy-five witnesses testified including Georgia's governor, top election officials, as well as some of Trump's most ardent followers who pushed the election myth that his victory was stolen from him.

CNN Sara Murray is here with the details.

So Sara, do you know who these jurors say should face perjury charges? I mean, no names were listed, but I guess that opens the door to speculation.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, if only we knew. I think what we are getting today is a small glimpse of the special grand juries work but we are not getting any names. We're not getting whatever they decided their recommendations were on who if anyone should face criminal charges.

But we are getting this - some of these lines about their concerns that people lie to them under oath. It says a majority of the jurors believe that perjury may have been committed by one or more witnesses. They say the district attorney should pursue indictments if she finds that there is compelling evidence to underlie these sort of concerns about perjury.

They also said that they came to a unanimous agreement after talking to those witnesses, after talking to Georgia officials, after talking to poll workers that there was no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election that would have overturned the election results. They pointed out that they still heard from witnesses that were making that claim but they unanimously agreed there was no there there.

Now we are still hearing from the former president that he believes the call that set this all in motion, the call from former President Donald Trump to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger asking Raffensperger to find the votes, Trump still believes that was a perfect call. Here's a portion of what a Trump spokesperson had to say today.

"The long awaited important sections of the Georgia report, which do not even mention President Trump's name, have nothing to do with the president because President Trump did absolutely nothing wrong. The president participated in two perfect phone calls regarding election integrity in Georgia."

Now, of course, as we just pointed out, the excerpts of this report don't mention anyone by name, the judge is very clear, he thinks it's premature to do that. So far, no one has faced charges in this case, but it's going to be up to the District Attorney, Fani Willis, to decide if she's going to bring charges against Trump or any of his associates.

GOLODRYGA: Sara, is there any indication as to when her decision will be made?

MURRAY: We would love to know. She said last month that these decisions are imminent. And as I was talking to someone about this, they said, yes, that's imminent in like a legal timeframe, not in like we're going to go get coffee imminently timeframe. So it could be weeks, it could be months, we're waiting to see.

BLACKWELL: All right. Sara Murray, thank you.

Joining us now is Alberto Gonzales. He served as Attorney General under President George W. Bush.

Judge Gonzales, good to see you again.

Let's start with this report. Obviously, not a wealth of information from the final report from the special grand jury, but I wonder what you found to be most revealing?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, we have to remember victory, of course, as you indicated that there's not much information here. The information that typically comes from the grand jury is one sided, so I wouldn't get too terribly excited about what's in here.

Obviously, I found interesting the conclusion about the evidence - lack of evidence with respect to fraud that might have made a difference in the election. But again, there's this - because of the importance of protecting the anonymity of individuals that are called before the grand jury, and that may ultimately not be charged, obviously, the judge will be very careful about the amount of information that is released.

And so, again, it's interesting, but I think we still have a ways to go to really have a fuller picture of what the situation looks like in the mind of the of the prosecutors here.

BLACKWELL: You highlighted that line and I'm going to read it: "We find in unanimous vote that no widespread fraud took place in Georgia 2020 presidential election that could result in overturning that election."

Ambassador Norm Eisen who was on with me last hour said that this was another nail in the coffin. Is this line potent enough to suggest any more than maybe 24 hours ago that this investigation is going to lead to or this special grand jury is going to lead to charges against the former president?

[15:10:08]

GONZALES: Well, it may. It may, but again, as I said, that conclusion is based upon information presented by one side. The other side did not have a chance to rebut the information. It may have made a difference in the minds of the members of the grand jury if they had this additional information. So again, I - it's very interesting, of course, and obviously it does indicate that's probably a trail that the prosecutor is going to go down and explore.

But I - would just be cautious about getting overly excited about that statement.

BLACKWELL: All right. Let's shift to Jack Smith's investigation. Of course, he's the special counsel investigating former President Trump. He's now subpoenaed the former vice president. Vice President Pence has said he will fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. And his argument is not executive privilege, although President Trump's lawyers say that he will follow that line.

What Vice President Pence is saying is that based on the protections provided under the speech and debate clause from - on the Constitution that he is protected from certain legal law enforcement. Of course, that protects legislative duties for members of Congress. What do you think about this approach that because he was, as vice president, president of the Senate, that he has those speech and debate clause protections?

GONZALES: Well, I would agree that he does have those protections, but it would be fairly cabin. For example, if he's having conversations about his authority to certify the election, is it more than ministerial, what's the scope of his authority as a member of the Senate. Then yes, I would argue that that probably is protected by privilege.

But if it relates to simply what's going on with respect to the January 6th riots, with respect to what actions the president should take or shouldn't take, what conversations related to that, I'm not sure that privilege is going to get very far, quite frankly. Because again, it is fairly cabin and it is intended to protect the actions, the words the communications, when he's acting in that capacity and that capacity only.

BLACKWELL: So you believe that he has the protections as a member of the Senate, although, he was elected nationally as the vice president. And then, of course, has that role as the President of the Senate. You say the question comes down to what indeed the conversations and potential documents that are also included cover, not the position and what undermines it.

GONZALES: Well, no, the position matters because the position is going to dictate what is within the scope of the privilege that's going to be asserted and the scope of the privilege that's going to be respected. Clearly, he's a member of the executive branch, I suspect that when he - if he can't argue the privilege with respect to being a member of the Senate, he's going to argue executive privilege.

My own view is looking at the case law, because we're talking about an investigation by an executive branch agency that that privilege is not going to hold up. I think that privilege would be - is going to be pierced and so I think at the end of the day, he's going to be compelled to provide some information related to what happened that day.

BLACKWELL: How about Mark Meadows, former chief of staff? We know that he has asserted executive privilege certainly with the January 6 Committee that was in the last Congress. Do you think that holds up if he fights the subpoena from Jack Smith?

GONZALES: No. His situation will be similar to the Vice President. Obviously, it would be a week of privilege because we're not - he only can assert executive privilege. And as I said, looking at the case law, I think because this is an investigation within the executive branch that privilege will not be respected, particular if the information is of a great public interest and there's no other way to get that information and if that information relates to an ongoing criminal investigation.

I think there's a pretty good chance that the courts are going to say we're not going to recognize the privilege under the circumstances.

BLACKWELL: We're focused ...

GONZALES: I think ...

BLACKWELL: ... go ahead. GONZALES: ... but no question about it, this is a very unusual situation and the courts may go a different way, but that's how I see it based on the current case law.

BLACKWELL: So we're focused on the trees, let me back up and ask you about the forest. We have these subpoenas that are coming we know the former National Security adviser Robert O'Brien, who was subpoenaed, he was before the special - before the special counsel's grand jury today. There are also these eight secret cases that are being argued, many of them are under seal. What does this tell you about the pace, the progress, the status, if anything, of these investigations?

[15:15:01]

GONZALES: Well, I can't speak to the pace. I know there's been a lot of frustration about the pace, but the fact that the vice president is being called and that the chief of staff is being called, typically you don't bring - these are people that are obviously - the next level is president of the United States and so it tells me that they're getting to the point where they're going to be making some decisions relatively soon about whether or not there should be charges against former President Trump.

When I say relatively soon, again, the special prosecutor is going to make his decision when he's ready to make his decision. So when asked, well, when's that going to be, my response always got to be he'll do it when he's ready. And so again, this call is going to have tremendous political implications.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GONZALES: And you want to be sure you want to get this right, obviously, so have to wait and see.

BLACKWELL: All right. Former Attorney General and current Dean of the Belmont University College of Law, Alberto Gonzalez. Always good to have you sir, thank you so much.

GONZALES: Thanks, Victor.

GOLODRYGA: The Shreveport police officer who shot and killed an unarmed black man is now charged with negligent homicide. We're live in Louisiana ahead.

BLACKWELL: We're also following a big recall for hundreds of thousands of Teslas. We'll tell you why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:33]

GOLODRYGA: We turn now to Tesla's massive recall of nearly 363,000 cars that are equipped with a full self-driving feature. The company is citing concerns of the possible crash risk.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Gabe Cohen is following the developments here. I've been watching the Tesla stock price slide since this announcement, what more are we learning about this recall?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So Victor, Bianna, included in these nearly 363,000 Tesla's that are being recalled are a portion of all four of their models. And it's because of this software, this full self-driving beta software that's onboard many of their cars. So these are the cars in question that includes certain Model S, Model X, Model 3 and Model Y vehicles spanning all the way back to 2016 in some cases.

And this recall, notice that we're getting from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration really lays out what the agency says is the danger here. The NHTSA, the federal agency claims that this self- driving software could allow the Tesla vehicle to really act unsafe around intersections to start like traveling straight through an intersection from a turn only lane or entering a stop sign controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution. Plus, it could respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or it may not adequately account for the drivers change in speed when that exceeds speed limits.

So again, there are a lot of concerns there and this report really makes it clear that Tesla did not agree with the agency's analysis about their software. But ultimately, the company decided to issue this recall where they'll be releasing a free over the air software update.

The question now is how is this software update going to fix the problem or to what extent will it fix the problem, because remember, this technology has been under the microscope for years now. And this recall is coming less than a week after we saw an attack ad, a pretty expensive attack ad during the Super Bowl that was created by The Dawn Project that showed Tesla's smashing into mannequins of children claiming that the vehicles are using unsafe self-driving software.

Now, according to this recall notice, Tesla has identified 18 incidents that are related to this software issue but no reports of any injuries or deaths. NHTSA has identified at least 273 crashes involving Tesla's self-driver assist systems.

So again, we're waiting to learn more. Tesla has not put out a formal response here, but Elon Musk is already tweeting about it saying, "The word recall for an over-the-air software update is anachronistic and just flat wrong." So Elon Musk clearly does not like the word recall being used in this situation, but the headline from that federal safety administration is that 363,000 Tesla's are being recalled in this case.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it looks like it is a definitive recall regardless of what Elon Musk is saying. Gabe Cohen, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Longtime Major League Baseball broadcaster and player, Tim McCarver, has died of heart failure.

GOLODRYGA: McCarver was a catcher for 21 seasons and made his major league debut in 1959 with the St. Louis Cardinals where he was a two- time World Series champion. McCarver also played for the Philadelphia Phillies, Montreal Expos and Boston Red Sox before retiring in 1980.

He then moved into the broadcast booth and called the then-record 23 World Series and 20 All-Star games. Tim was 81 years old.

BLACKWELL: There's anger and fear in East Palestine, Ohio after the chemical leak from that train derailment that has questions for lots of residents, they're asking if their water is safe, if the air is safe, we'll take you there live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:06]

BLACKWELL: Today, the head of the Environmental Protection Agency met with families of East Palestine, Ohio. He said it's his mission to assure people there that it's safe to return to their homes after this month's massive train derailment.

GOLODRYGA: The train was carrying potentially deadly chemicals prompting a controlled explosion which burned for days. Frustrated residents said the air smells like burning plastic. Some have been telling reporters they've experienced difficulty breathing and rashes, but Michael Regan is asking them to trust science.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL REGAN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: Based on the air quality analysis, based on advanced technology and based on the work that the state has done to test the water, the air and the water are safe for those residents that we have deemed being safe and to come back in. If the water or the air has not been tested, I am asking the residents to please seek out that testing from both the EPA and the state of Ohio.

[15:30:02]