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5 Ex-Memphis Officers Appears at Arraignment for Tyre Nichols' Death; President Biden's Doctor Says He Remains Healthy and Vigorous; Fetterman Hospitalized with Clinical Depression. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 17, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:01:24]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour this Friday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Erica Hill.

Right now all five former police officers charged with murder, among other charges, in the death of Tyre Nichols are inside a Memphis courthouse. They are set to be arraigned on seven charges including second-degree murder and aggravated assault.

SCIUTTO: This morning the Shelby County district attorney told CNN that prosecutors are still looking into possibly charging a sixth former officer who tased Nichols during the initial traffic stop that night as well as others possibly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE MULROY, SHELBY COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We are looking at everybody who was involved directly or indirectly in death of Tyre Nichols, and that includes Officer Hemphill, it includes people who showed up after the beating had concluded, and we're going to do what we can as quickly as I can, but thoroughly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now we are still waiting for the release of 20 hours of additional footage from the deadly beating and the aftermath. It could be relevant.

CNN's Shimon Prockupecz, he's at the courthouse in Memphis, Tennessee.

Shimon, I understand you just spoke to Tyre Nichols' mother as she arrived at the courthouse. What did she have to say?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, we did, Jim. But I just want to let folks know where we are. We're actually inside the courthouse now, in the hallway outside the courtroom. We're actually awaiting the officers, the five former officers to appear. They're expected to walk through these doors at any moment now where they will hear for the first time, it will be their initial appearance and where we expect them to enter their pleas. It will be the first time that the family, Tyre Nichols' family gets

to be face-to-face with these five officers and members of the community. You can see many people gathered here outside the courtroom as we await for these five former officers to appear. And as you said, I did get a chance to quickly speak with Tyre Nichols' family as they were coming into the courtroom, and asked them essentially why it was important for them to be here today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: Just wanted -- just one question if I can. Just about seeing these officers today, coming face-to-face with them. What do you think that will be like for you?

ROWVAUGHN WELLS, TYRE NICHOLS' MOTHER: I don't know, sir. I don't know how I'm going to react or respond. Right now I'm just as numb as numb can be right now. So I don't know how I am going to react.

PROKUPECZ: It is important for you to be here today.

WELLS: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: Why is that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: Guys, here they come. Here come the five. And here are the officers now entering the courtroom with their attorneys. You can see them here wearing the face masks, some of them with their attorneys. The five former officers just now walking into the courtroom. There's one of the other attorneys, some of the other former officers, and all now walking into the courtroom with their attorneys.

So we expect this to get under way here at any moment. And as I said, this will be their first appearance, their initial appearance here to hear the charges against them. And really, for this community, they get to be face-to-face with them and the family, which I think for the family something that is very, very important.

We just saw the D.A. go in as well, and I just want to make a point about the D.A. The Scorpion Unit, and we've heard a lot about the unit which has now been disbanded, which these five former officers were part of. The D.A. told me this morning as he was coming into court that they're going to be revealing up to at least 100 cases now where these officers were involved and about 75 of the cases are associated with the five former officers.

[10:05:06]

But as we've been talking about, there is a sixth officer, Preston Hemphill, he has about 25 cases that the D.A. says they're going to be revealing. So now a total of 100 cases at least that the district attorney is going to have to go back now and look at to see if there were any issues with those cases and potentially they could dismiss those cases. It's a heavy burden here for the D.A. but that's part of the fallout of this. But most important for today, obviously for the Nichols' family to be

here, to be face-to-face with these officers as they begin the process of facing these charges against them.

HILL: Shimon Prokupecz, appreciate it.

Joining us now, former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu, former Boston police commissioner Ed Davis.

Good to have both of you with us. We are going to take this live as it begins. Not sure if it's starting here or not. But, Shan, as we wait for that, just walk us through what will happen in these next few moments.

SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, as Shimon reported, this is the first sort of public appearance for these --

HILL: Actually, Shan, I think they are starting. Sorry to interrupt you, Shan, but I think they're starting. So let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the attorneys, are you prepared to present your client?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am, your honor. I'd like (INAUDIBLE) by reading the indictment, we are going to enter a plea of not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just for the purposes of the record here, your client's name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Emmitt Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Proceed, Mr. Stengel (PH).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, your honor. Demetrious Haley is my client. He is present in the courtroom, waive the formal reading of the indictment, entering not guilty plea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Perry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning. I'm John Perry on behalf of Mr. Tadarrius Bean. At this time we waive the formal reading of the indictment, offer the court a plea of not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. (INAUDIBLE), I see you back there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor. On behalf of my client Desmond Smith, Charles (INAUDIBLE), we are entering -- waive reading of the indictment and we plead not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, Judge. On behalf of Mr. Mills, we waive formal reading of the indictment, enter a not guilty plea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentlemen, each of your attorneys have entered pleas of not guilty on your behalf. Understand that despite everyone's best effort, this case may take some time. Your attorneys are going to be receiving the discovery. Depending on how voluminous the discovery is, it make take some time for the state to collect it all and turn over to your attorneys for your attorneys to review that discovery, to prepare their motions and prepare their case.

So be patient, work with your attorneys, cooperate with them, meet with them, go over the discovery. Make sure that if there are any delays, that the delays are on account of any of your actions.

To those also in attendance, as I've explained to the defendants, this case can take some time. We do ask for your patience, your continued patience, and your continued civility in this case. We understand that there may be some high emotions in this case, but we ask that you continue to be patient with us. Everyone involved wants this case to be concluded as quickly as possible, but it is important for you all to understand that the state of Tennessee as well as each one of these defendants have an absolute right to a fair trial. And I will not allow any behavior that could jeopardize that right.

So with that being said, we thank you all for being present. The state understanding that there may be some discovery that needs to be collected, and we are going to continue this case out a little bit further to make sure that the discovery is concluded. We're going to reset this matter until May 1st at 9:00 a.m. State, is there anything else?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your honor, the only other thing on behalf of the state is I have a protective order as to each of the defendants to allow certain digital discovery, video evidence to be provided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any objection?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No objection, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No objection, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No objection, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything else on behalf of your client?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, your honor. We did file a motion for discovery this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything else on behalf of your client?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Perry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, your honor. But we did file a petition pursuant to the Rule 7-C, Tennessee Rule.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing further this morning, your honor. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Gentlemen, we will see you back here May 1st on that day. And we will now excuse the defendants and their defense counsel. We're asking everyone else in the courtroom to remain in the courtroom, and remain seated in your seat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And with regard to everybody else, I would let the court know that the family is here this morning also.

[10:10:03]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, thank you.

HILL: And so there you have it. All five former officers entering pleas of not guilty.

Former federal prosecutor Shan Wu, former Boston Police commissioner Ed Davis with us.

So, Shan, at this point, of course, as we just heard at this point, May 1st, everybody will be back, the judge warning this may take some time, understandable in this case. But as we move forward here, what's remarkable, and Shimon brought this up again, the D.A. of course talking to CNN about it. And we learned weeks ago that prosecutors are now reviewing a number of cases that involve these former officers, all cases where criminal cases were brought by the D.A. Some closed, some pending.

Is that standard in a situation like this, Shan?

WU: Well, there is not too much that is standard about this type of revealing violence. Having led a police corruption task force reviewing these kinds of cases, you certainly would want to look at the individual history of these officers, what other types of discipline issues, what other types of allegations of violence, and it sounds like from reporting there have been here, so it's very smart to look at that. It's important to uncover that truth.

From a prosecutorial strategy standpoint, of course, the more allegations they find that could be charged, the more leverage they have on getting these officers one or more to plead guilty. Even if they don't go to the point of indicting, the mere fact that they are looking at this, they'll be talking to the defense lawyers about it.

SCIUTTO: Yes. A lot of time, too. They said it may some time, the judge there, and next meeting May 1st.

Ed Davis, the sad fact is, as we're watching the legal ramifications of this case, we had a story on last hour about another case, this one in Louisiana, negligent homicide now charged in the case of Alonso Bagley. I don't want to give the impression that this happens in every police encounter. There are hundreds of them every day that end peacefully. But there clearly is still an issue here. And I wonder, are departments training -- are they changing their training? Are they changing their approach to make these kinds of deadly encounters less likely? ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it's a great

question, Jim. And after talking to my colleagues across the country, I know that this is the single most important thing that they are struggling with right now. Training is a big part of it. A bigger part of it is the culture of the organization. So everybody is reflecting on what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

But, you know, the advent of cameras has brought a lot more accountability. We have to be happy with the fact that these officers were charged so quickly and are being held accountable. And that sends a message out to every officer that's out on the street.

HILL: You know, in terms of that culture, too, and I'm glad you brought that up, because we have some reporting when it comes to there's been a lot of made of the Scorpion Union of which these officers were members, and Chief Davis in Memphis was saying, specifically talked about the culture, saying culture is not something that changes overnight.

So, Shan, how much is that culture? How much do you anticipate that culture is going to come into play? Is going to be part of what we will hear from both sides?

WU: Very interesting question. From a defense standpoint, you would want as little of that culture to come in as possible because your argument that's highly prejudicial to portray these officers as being part of a group, almost a gang member mentality where they're just jumping out and beating up people.

Now, on the other hand, from the prosecution's standpoint, obviously that type of picture is very important to point, helps show the jury what's really going on here, and the prosecution will be arguing that this is not simply trying to damage the officers' reputation, but rather to show that these are the facts going on here. And that's central to proving the intent, what they were doing wrong, and that's critical for the jury to understand.

It's not just an isolated incident, and that's what the prosecution's point is going to be. So there'll be quite a clash here.

SCIUTTO: Ed Davis, you say you're speaking to departments around the country. I wonder, as you see it becoming more likely for officers to face murder charges, in many cases we saw that with George Floyd, we're seeing it now with Tyre Nichols, we see in the case of Alonzo Bagley here, is that danger, right, or that threat a consequence, a motivator for police departments to change not just regulations and training but the culture that you talk about?

DAVIS: Well, it certainly is. The Sword of Damocles is hanging over the head of any officer that acts like this, and they've got to know that at this point of time.

[10:15:02]

So, you know, friends that I've been in the business with, we just shake our heads that this is still happening, which is, it's inconceivable that someone doesn't understand the -- first of all, I mean, the humanity of this which should be the driving force, but just the danger to yourself, if you go this far.

There are studies that need to be done on what happens physiologically to an officer after a pursuit or a gun battle. There's not enough information on that. None of that is an excuse, but it might be a way to deal with the issues that drive this kind of behavior.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Shimon Prokupecz is there at the courthouse for us.

Shimon, pretty much what was expected, right? Schwartz, you know, really checking this box for the arraignment moving forward now. I wonder if the family of Tyre Nichols who was in the courtroom there, if they made any statements on their way out?

PROKUPECZ: No, they didn't. We do expect to hear from them in just a short period here. They're expected to speak. But, you know, I can't imagine walking into a courtroom having to face these officers. You know, the mother has just been holding so much emotion, you know, releasing it in many ways, but you can tell, just, you know, I had the brief interaction with her, but, you know, the grief and the weight that this must be having on her, it's very evident in her face and just in her body and just the way she moves and the way she speaks, and certainly that's why I felt it was important to know, like, why -- what must it be like to walk into a courtroom having to look at five men who are now accused of murdering her son.

So no emotion from her in the courtroom. She sat there. She said it was important for her to be there because she wanted them to see her face. You saw the officers walk in. They said absolutely nothing, some of them wearing face masks, and then when they walked out, we tried to ask them questions, and obviously they didn't say anything. But, yes, everything that was expected.

And now this is going to be a long drawn-out process as the attorneys fight over discovery and documents, and then also the big question I think that everyone needs to keep in mind is whether or not these attorneys are going to ask to have these cases severed so that some of these officers get charged separately because of, you know, how much involvement certain officers have versus other, and you can see that sort of start to play out here over the coming months.

SCIUTTO: We've been showing you events from the courtroom in Memphis where those officers charged in the death of Tyre Nichols face their arraignment. We'll continue to follow. Thanks to Shimon Prokupecz, but also of course Shan Wu and Ed Davis.

Also ahead, Senator John Fetterman is back in the hospital this morning. This after he checked himself in for clinical depression. We're going to speak about it with the president of the American Psychiatric Association, how common the disease particularly for folks who've had strokes. A lot of questions.

HILL: Plus Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy refusing to concede territory to Russia in any potential peace deal as he said a number of time. This, though, as President Putin is meeting with his Belarusian counterpart.

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[10:22:41]

HILL: President Biden's doctor says his latest routine physical shows the president is healthy and vigorous, good enough to perform his presidential duties.

SCIUTTO: Biden underwent tests at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center where presidents typically go. Doctors did find a small lesion on his chest. That has been removed for a biopsy.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now.

Elizabeth, did we learn anything else from the president's doctors here?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, yes. So we did learn a few more things. Let's take a look at what we were told by the White House.

The president's physician says that the president experiences a stiff gait in the past. They said that was at least in part due to some arthritis that he has. Also that he clears his throat often because of reflux. That is not an unusual thing. And we know, we've known this for a while, he is being treated for AFib which is an irregular heartbeat.

His physician also noted that they did a detailed sort of screening, neurological screening, and that they didn't find anything that would be consistent with anything like a stroke or MS or Parkinson's. They also did a similar kind of screening in 2021 when he had his last physical -- Jim, Erica.

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.

Well, more medical news here in Washington. Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania is being praised from both sides of the aisle notably for prioritizing his mental health. The Pennsylvania Democrat checked himself into a Washington hospital to be treated for clinical depression. The freshman senator was elected just in November after suffering a stroke in May of last year.

HILL: Fetterman's wife Gisele tweeted she is so proud of him for asking for help.

Joining us now to discuss, Dr. Rebecca Brendel, she's the president of the American Psychiatric Association and the associate director of the Center for Bioethics at Harvard Medical School.

I don't think that we can say enough and I think there's certainly been a push to do so over the last several years.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: It's important to talk about mental health because mental health is physical health. Health is health. When we look at this, Doctor, I was surprised, Dr. Reiner, who of course is a cardiologist, CNN medical analyst, he said last night that about 1 in 3 people who experience a stroke could in fact then have depression. Is it always that link? That feels like such a high number to me.

[10:25:00]

DR. REBECCA BRENDEL, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION: Well, while I can't comment in particular on Senator Fetterman, we wish him well in his treatment and send our regards to his family. It is more common for people to suffer from depression after a stroke, and many medical and neurologic conditions can actually increase the likelihood that someone develops or experience symptoms of depression.

SCIUTTO: So he's getting treatment now which is of course recommended, and so many Americans are living with depression. I believe we were talking in the break, you said 8.4 percent is the estimate from 2020. So close to 1 in 10. Is there any reason to believe that with treatment he cannot carry out his duties as a U.S. senator?

BRENDEL: Well, the most important thing to know about depression is that it's very common and it's very treatable. The overwhelming majority of people who receive treatment for depression don't have to go into a hospital, and can be treated in a relatively brief period of time with a combination of medications, therapy and other interventions. So that's the most important thing to know.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: And for people watching, we hear about depression. Senator Fetterman talking about clinical depression. What are some of those signs? When do you know that it's more than a string of bad days when you're feeling really down?

BRENDEL: Well, depression is more than just feeling down even for a day or two or having a low mood. As you mentioned, it's a physical disorder that affects our brain and it affects our body. So depression has to last for at least two weeks. And it affects not just our mood, but also our sleep, our interest in doing things that we used to enjoy, our level of energy, our thoughts, our thinking, our concentration.

Sometimes it can slow down our body or speed up our movements and our thoughts. And finally in its most severe forms, it can even lead us to have thoughts of not wanting to be alive anymore.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's been good to see public figures speaking more openly about this. As I often say, mental health which is health, right, and we want folks -- and we'll be sharing, by the way, numbers you can call if you're experiencing symptoms.

I do want to ask about another case that's been in the news. This of course is the actor Bruce Willis who is -- his family has announced that he is suffering from something called frontotemporal dementia. How common is that at this age? Because it struck many of us here as he's quite young to be experiencing symptoms like this.

BRENDEL: Well, there are many different kinds of dementia, and in general, frontotemporal dementia does affect people who tend to be younger, as early as the age of 40 but up to the age of 65. And it does account for about 10 percent to 20 percent of all dementia cases.

HILL: And what does it translate to? I mean, what specifically would someone experiencing frontotemporal dementia, what does that mean for them and for those around them?

BRENDEL: Well, the frontal lobes, the temporal lobes of the brain are affected and they're responsible for so many aspects of our personality and behavior. And those are two prominent signs early on in frontotemporal dementia. We see changes in people's behavior, maybe becoming disinhibited or socially inappropriate. We can changes in their movement like tremors. And we can also see changes in their language, the way they speak or are able to put words together.

SCIUTTO: Well, Dr. Rebecca Brendel, it's good to have you on. We want to do our best to talk about these issues as openly as we can to help folks out there. We appreciate you taking the time today.

BRENDEL: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: And also for any folks at home experiencing a crisis, please do remember that number, 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.

Still ahead, an ammunition factory in Pennsylvania is now helping Ukrainians fight the Russian invasion. We're going to take you inside the effort to make sure they have the ammo they need. It's been tough to keep up. That's coming up.

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