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Former President Jimmy Carter Receiving Hospice Care; Secretary Of State Antony Blinken Meets With Chinese Counterpart; Vice President Harris Declares Russia Committed Crimes Against Humanity In Ukraine; Residents Report Rashes, Headaches After Train Chemical Spill; Louisiana Officer Charged In Fatal Shooting Of Unarmed Black Man; Incredible Survival Stories Amid Anguish In Turkey. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 18, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:32]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: I'm Sara Sidner in New York. Jim Acosta has the day off. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We begin with breaking news here at CNN. Former President Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, is now receiving hospice care at his home. That is according to a statement that we have just received from the Carter Center.

Let's go now live to CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. She is at the White House for us.

Priscilla, what else do we know about his condition?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're hearing from the Carter Center who just moments ago put out a statement that said very quickly, quote, "After a series of short hospital stays former U.S. President Jimmy Carter today decided to spend his remaining time at home with his family and receive hospice care instead of additional medical intervention. He has the full support of his family and his medical team."

Sara, Jimmy Carter is the oldest living former president at 98 years old. He has kept a low profile since the coronavirus pandemic, though he has spoken out about the risks to democracy. And he is a champion of human rights.

Now him and President Biden have a long-standing relationship going back to Biden's days as a senator, when he endorsed then Governor Carter. And in 2021 President Biden did visit him and said the two of them talked about the good old days.

Now we're still waiting to hear more about Carter's condition, but as of now his family says that they seek privacy for them and their family as we await more details about his condition.

And Sara, we also note that he has had medical issues in the past, including beating brain cancer in 2015 and having health scares in 2019. So again waiting for additional details.

SIDNER: Priscilla, thank you so much for that.

And I think we're going to now bring in Jeff Zeleny who is with us.

Jeff, this is a president who has had a huge impact post-presidency more than anything else. He was only a one-term president. Tell me your thoughts on what we're hearing now that he is now in hospice care.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Sara, there is no doubt the former president, of course the former governor of Georgia, an improbable president back at the time in the '70s. The 39th president. Really he did serve one term but his post-presidency has gone on and spanned really nearly a half a century, and that will indeed and it is indeed his legacy.

If you visit the Carter Center as I have in Atlanta that really comes clear. All he has done for democracy and hunger and other issues around the globe really will be his life's work. And yes, he did serve of course during a very tumultuous post-Watergate period, of course defeated by Ronald Reagan back in 1980. He had a tough primary of his own, a very unusual primary when Senator Teddy Kennedy decided to challenge him.

But since then he has been part of the president's club. He's not been as active of a member as Bill Clinton perhaps or even George H.W. Bush, but he really has done his own work with his wife, Rosalynn. So the visit that President Biden made to Plains, Georgia, I was just recalling that now, on the 100th day of the Biden presidency, was so poignant. The two men and their wives spent quite a bit of time in the same farmhouse, the same house in Plains, Georgia, where the Carters have lived their entire life, virtually.

Their life really has not changed. They moved to the White House, then they moved back to Georgia and continued really working around the globe then. So I think as, of course, all thoughts are with the Carters as he is spending his final days most likely in hospice care, he has defied the medical odds before so many times, brain cancer, so many other moments. But I was speaking to a close friend of his just as I was coming in this afternoon, and they do believe the end is near.

But there is a life celebration for the work and the legend and legacy of Jimmy Carter that is quite, quite extraordinary. But as of now, he is with his family and they of course are not saying anything else about his time. But the legacy of this former president certainly should and will be remembered.

SIDNER: He's done so much for this country.

ZELENY: Right.

SIDNER: You know, post his presidency. Jeff Zeleny thank you so much for joining us and being available on such short notice. We appreciate you. ZELENY: Sure.

SIDNER: And we have more breaking news at this hour. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has just met with the China's top diplomat. It's a meeting the U.S. had been pursuing and the first between senior officials since the U.S.-China tension spiked after a Chinese spy balloon was discovered and then shot down over U.S. soil.

[16:05:08]

CNN international editor Nic Robertson is at the Munich Security Conference for us where the diplomats met.

Nic, these are really tense times in the relationship between China and the United States. What are you learning?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and I think the fact that we've seen today the whole meeting has been shrouded it in uncertainty. We know that U.S. officials have been trying to set this meeting up. We know that Secretary Blinken had gone back to his hotel after the leaving the venue at the Munich Security Conference, and then took off without saying precisely where he was going, only confirming a couple of hours later that he'd actually been to the meeting with Wang Yi, really highlights the sensitivities of this meeting at this time.

The Chinese of course hadn't commented earlier in the day on the possibility of this meeting. One of the things that we do know that was raised by Secretary Blinken in the meeting with his Chinese counterpart is the issue of what the United States is concerned about and has been speaking to European partners about here today. And that is that China may be increasing its support for Russia.

There's disturbing trend lines that the United States is seeing that indicate China may be sort of walking up to the line of possibly providing lethal military aid for Russia in the conflict with Ukraine which is something that they haven't done to date. And the concern is that Wang Yi today, the Chinese foreign minister Secretary Blinken has just met with, earlier today was saying China sort of got a peace proposal, a peace plan for the Ukraine-Russia conflict, and that would require that genuine security concerns are respected.

And in this context he means Russia's security concerns which are not taken seriously in Europe at this time. That those are respected. So there's a concern, it seems, from the State Department, from the White House, that China on the one hand here is sort of trying to play the role in Europe of sort of it can offer a path to peace. Yet behind the scenes very quietly may, in fact, be ramping up its military support, potentially, for Russia.

SIDNER: Nic Robertson, you always have the best information. Thank you so much for joining us there from Munich.

Let's bring in Jamie Metzl, he is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. He also served on the National Security Council staff during the Clinton administration. Jamie, what is your reaction to the news that Secretary Blinken has

met with his Chinese counterpart, something that the U.S. had been pursuing?

JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: I think it's very important that the United States and Chinese officials meet as bad as relations are and seem to be at this moment. China is a critically important country in the world and whether either country likes it or not, we have to keep the lines of communication open. There's too much at risk. While we work to address our very significant differences, we need to make sure we are connected because if we're not even worse things could happen.

SIDNER: Let me ask you this. I mean, does China expect the United States -- they must expect the United States to at least be bristled by what happened with the spy balloon that was found over U.S. soil. What do you think the expectation is that would come out of this meeting?

METZL: Well, first on that first point, China always pretends and they go crazy over every little tiny infraction. If this had been -- if the shoe had been on the other foot and a U.S. spy balloon had been floating over China, you can be sure they would have shot it down immediately. When the U.S. surveillance plane, which was not in Chinese territory, was forced down, China took the U.S. air people hostage and they took apart the plane and they shipped it back to the United States in parts. So this is the way China operates.

At the same time, again, as I said before, this is a critically important relationship. And it's deteriorating. And it's deteriorating in my view because China is behaving very aggressively across the board on many issues. But it's a relationship that could get a lot worse. And we need to stem -- we need to prevent that from happening. And that's why meetings like this are so important.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you what can happen, in your estimation, if the relationship gets worse and if this talking stops?

METZL: Well, if the relationship gets worse, there's really no bottom. I mean, China is having a massive nuclear arms buildup. They are behaving very aggressively in the South China Sea, in the East China Sea. The worst case scenario is war. The worst case scenario is a climate collapse because China continues with its behavior on the high seas and elsewhere as usual.

[16:10:04]

So really, if the United States and China don't find a way to manage our differences, there is no bottom.

SIDNER: Jamie Metzl, thank you so much for that. Those are disturbing words but you're the expert so, you know, we will have to wait and see what happens. At least there has been a conversation between Blinken and his counterpart in China. Thank you so much.

METZL: Thank you. SIDNER: New today, Vice President Kamala Harris delivers a stinging

indictment of Russia. Its soldiers in Ukraine have committed crimes against humanity. Harris levelled the accusation before world leaders at the Munich Security Conference today. For the first time in two decades, Russian leaders were not invited. Harris recounted some of the Russian atrocities committed in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we've all seen the images of the theatre in Mariupol where hundreds of people were killed. Think of the image of the pregnant mother who was killed following a strike at a maternity hospital where she was preparing to give birth. Think of the images of Bucha, civilians shot in cold blood. Their bodies left in the street. The jarring photograph of the man who was riding his bike. Think of the 4-year-old girl who the United Nations recently reported was sexually assaulted by a Russian soldier. A 4-year-old child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: I have been to Bucha and it was a disturbing situation there.

Let's continue this conversation. Joining us now is George Barros of the Institute for the Study of War. He is the geospatial intelligence team lead and an analyst on Russia.

Thank you so much for joining us. Let's start here. The Biden administration has accused Russian troops of war crimes back in March. They've been accused, of course, by Ukraine of the same. What does the crimes against humanity determination mean for this conflict at this moment?

GEORGE BARROS, INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF WAR, GEOSPATIAL INTELLIGENCE TEAM LEAD: Thank you very much, Sarah. Well, it's more than certainly symbolic. This determination should give the U.S. government and Ukraine's Western security partners a sense of moral urgency to empower Ukraine, to liberate its territories quickly as possible and to save as many civilian lives as possible.

We've seen the mass graves in Kyiv, in Bucha and other places of occupied Ukraine but it's not just those areas where it's occurring. It's occurring in all of Ukraine. We can see through satellite images the mass graves that the Russians have dug elsewhere and of course the Russians are also even deporting children from occupied Ukraine into Russia through forced adoption schemes. This is likely a violation of the U.N. convention on genocide.

SIDNER: Yes. That's disgusting just to be plain and simple about it. And I was in Bucha, I heard stories from people of torture. People were, obviously, killed there in cold blood. But the prosecution of war crimes tends to be a subject that goes on and on and on. And oftentimes we just don't see the end result as getting justice.

Can you give us a sense if you ever think there actually will be justice if some of these, you know, crimes against humanity are proved in court, at the Hague?

BARROS: Yes. I am hopeful that justice can come to the victims and justice be served for the perpetrators. Under the laws of international armed conflict, military commanders are responsible for the actions of their units and the soldiers in their units. Therefore Russian commanders who controlled the territory where the war crimes occurred are responsible parties and they can be prosecuted.

Like you said, it's very difficult to actually enforce that. In principle, the International Court of Justice in the Hague can help prosecute Russian war criminals and tried in absentia, but it's notoriously difficult to actually implement that. But it would be more than symbolic, it would be important to prosecute them so that these Russian commanders would not be able to set foot outside of the Russian federation and Russia's increasingly small pool of allies without risk of their arrest to facing justice.

SIDNER: I have spoken to Amal Clooney who has taken on some of these cases and they do often go on for years.

New this afternoon CNN has just learned that the U.S. is convinced that China may soon increase its support for Russia's military and its war in Ukraine. We know there was just a meeting between China and Secretary Blinken in Munich. Officials, though, are telling us that the U.S. is warning its allies at the Munich Security Conference there about this. How significant might this be?

[16:15:08]

BARROS: Yes. It's very important that the United States continues to support Ukraine and continues to support Ukraine with all the aid that it needs. I know right now there's been a lot of debate about whether to prioritize the Chinese threat or the Russian threat. But we don't live in an either-or world. We live in a both-and world and we need to be prepared to be able to confront these critical threats to our challenges of interest regardless of where they emanate.

SIDNER: George Barros, thank you so much for bringing your insight to us today on some heavy subjects. We appreciate your time.

BARROS: Thank you so much, Sara.

SIDNER: And still ahead, federal support on its way to Ohio as residents of East Palestine complain of smells, headaches, and sickness. The latest on their concerns.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:13]

SIDNER: The CEO of Norfolk Southern Rail Company is meeting with community members, local leaders and rail workers in East Palestine, Ohio, today two weeks after one of its trains derailed sending toxic chemicals into the air, water, and soil into that town. The company tweeted it will stay as long as it takes to help East Palestine to recover. Excuse me, I said it wrong the first time. But some people who've returned to their homes are reporting rashes, sore throats and even headaches which they fear are linked to the chemical spill.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is tracking the developments.

Polo can you give us a sense of what more we now know about what's happening there.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Sara, also important to remind viewers that this is the same rail company that the U.S. EPA said will be held accountable because of that just disastrous situation that unfolded just a couple of weeks ago. And as you mentioned, they tweeted earlier today, that company pledging that it will be there up until the final day of cleanup.

These are some fresh images here, shows that cleanup continuing here. They even made available a link for those residents to actually sign up for free air testing in their homes and businesses, trying to reassure people. But really ultimately it's the people who are still worried right now. Not only have they heard from the rail company but they've also heard from local, state and federal officials who say that the water is -- that the tap water at least is safe to drink. The air is safe to breathe.

But still there are many residents that have even come forward recently complaining as you point out with some symptoms including a sore throat, headache, feeling nauseous, and also some of those rashes. So they're 100 percent sure yet if it's directly linked to this chemical spill, though they certainly have their suspicions, as you're about to hear from some of the residents that are still worried about the long-term effects of the events of that day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTINA FERGUSON, RESIDENT: We need help. We do. We need -- we need President Biden. We need FEMA housing. People are getting sick.

JAMI COZZA, RESIDENT: The railroad sent out his toxicologist who deemed my house not safe, but had I not used my voice, had I not thrown a fit, I would be sitting in that house right now when they told me that it was safe.

JIM STEWART, RESIDENT: I don't recommend you put anything in the ground. I mean, vegetables or tomatoes or anything this year because we don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: That was on February 8th that residents were given the all clear to return to their homes near the site. Since then officials at the state and local level have told residents that after several tests, they have not detected any harmful quantities of chemicals in the water and air. But as you just heard, Sara, it's going to take much more to convince some of these residents that still have their doubts. They are certainly looking forward for more of that federal assistance in the coming days in their neighborhood.

SIDNER: Especially if they're dealing with symptoms, it's hard to tell someone, you know, how they're feeling and what that's from. Thank you so much, Polo Sandoval. Appreciate it.

SANDOVAL: Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: Ohio officials say testing of hundreds of homes shows no danger as you heard from the derailment and chemical spill, but as you heard as well some residents and environmental experts aren't so sure about that.

Joining me now environmental investigator Bob Bowcock.

Bob, you've worked with Erin Brockovich in the past who was famous for unearthing problems in the soil and water that caused people to get cancer. What are the two of you doing to investigate this issue in Palestine, Ohio?

BOB BOWCOCK, ENVIRONMENTAL INVESTIGATOR: Yes. Erin and I have been directly involved with many of the community members. Not only did, you know, several hundred of the community members reached out to Erin and I when this first began that Sunday evening during the evacuation, but subsequent that, thousands of people from around the world are saying, Erin and Bob, you better get down to Ohio and find out what's going on.

So we jumped right in. And one of the things that concerns us more than anything is the unavoidable or the avoidable disasters that followed the initial derailment, and it's very, very concerning.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about what you think of what we've heard from residents. They're saying they're getting headaches, there's really bad smells, but they're told by officials that don't worry, all is safe. I mean, you even heard someone there talking about not planting crops because they're really worried about the soil. Who do you trust in this scenario knowing what you know?

BOWCOCK: You know, I trust -- knowing what I know, I trust the people on the ground. They're the ones who are actually smelling it. They're the ones who are actually having the medical responses to these chemicals. And they're deeply concerning. You know, it's one thing to go out and try to take a sample and a snapshot in time, it's another thing for these people to continuously be re-exposed.

[16:25:02]

Remember, they dug a burn pit, they lit this stuff on fire. That soot deposited all over the community and a little whirlwind can just, you know, brush up and put that stuff right back up in the air. Those people can become exposed to it. And then it can dissipate. They come take a sample of the air and say, oh, there's nothing here. Well, that's just not the case. I trust the people.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about the EPA, and at this point they're saying, look, East Palestine's water system is safe for drinking. You look at some of these pictures, though, and, you know, you hear from some of the residents about what they're feeling, nauseous and headaches and the awful smell that they sometimes smell.

What do you think about that? I mean, would you trust the water from your perspective and from the things that you've learned?

BOWCOCK: Well, it's -- you know, I've got a lot more questions than I do answers. And it's one thing to take a sample from a groundwater well and say, look, there's no vinyl chloride in this groundwater well. It's probably going to show up there but it may take several weeks before it does. Remember, they dug a burn pit and lit it on fire with this chemical in it.

That burn pit is a direct pathway to those groundwater wells, though it might not be in them today, does that water go straight to the homes or does it go into a drinking water reservoir that could have been impacted by that smoke and soot, that could have contaminated the water in the reservoir?

Those are the questions we have, and we think we've got to do a lot more digging than just, you know, going in and telling the people, oh, never mind what you're impacted by just isn't so.

SIDNER: Yes. I've seen the EPA work on the ground. They do do quite a bit of testing in some places, but when the residents are telling you they're experiencing these adverse effects, like you said, you've got to listen to the residents and at least try to figure out what's going on there.

Bob Bowcock, thank you for your work and thank you for joining us on CNN NEWSROOM.

BOWCOCK: Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: Still ahead, Alonzo Bagley, the black man killed by Shreveport Police. was laid to rest today as we get our first look at body camera footage of the incident in Louisiana.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:31:13]

SIDNER: Funeral services were held today for Alonzo Bagley, an unarmed black man shot by Louisiana police.

Bagley was killed after police responded to a domestic disturbance call earlier this month. He ran from them, they gave chase, and he was shot. Officer Alexander Tyler is now charged with negligent homicide.

CNN's Isabel Rosales joins us now.

Isabel, body camera video has been released. Can you tell us what we've seen or have we seen it all yet?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sara, the family members of Bagley got to review that before it was released to the public last week.

And it's difficult to see. Not only do we see a man taking his last breaths on body cam footage but also the office, the police officer who shot him breaking down and crying.

We're going to walk you through this footage.

But first, a warning. Some of the images here are graphic, not suitable for everyone.

This started on February 3rd, about two weeks ago. Police responding to a domestic disturbance call. You see them knocking. Following Bagley, they see he's escaping through the back, jumping over a balcony, and they give chase.

The officers are communicating here. And as they round the corner, Bagley right there is shot. We can see this image.

We did hear from a Louisiana State Police investigator that Bagley did have his hands up in that moment after the shot is taken.

But he also acknowledged in court that the view from the body camera is obstructed by the way the officer turned while that shot went off.

Right after the shooting happened, we see the other police officer that's unnamed start to give first aid and call for EMS.

Meanwhile, Officer Tyler, the one who shot Bagley, is audibly distraught. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No. No,

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. Come on. Come on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on! Come on! Come on!

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, man. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, man, no. No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're good. You're good.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, dude.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: We also heard from the Bagley family attorney who highlighted the quick response from the Louisiana State Police, their swift action here in arresting and charging Officer Tyler.

And also talking about the importance of body camera footage, that we saw these moments for ourselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAVIER SUDDS, ALONZO BAGLEY'S BROTHER: I want Alonzo death to mean something at the end of the day. And I know that it will happen.

And I appreciate everybody condolences and prayers. But none of that compares to the pain that I'm feeling, the pain that my mom is feeling, the pain that our brother is feeling. That's going to linger for a while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: We heard from Officer Tyler's defense attorney who insists that just because Alonzo Bagley didn't have a weapon on him that doesn't mean he didn't represent a threat to the officers.

Surely, we will hear more of that defense in court -- Sara?

SIDNER: Isabel Rosales, thank you so much.

A very difficult story to watch and one we've seen time and time again.

Civil rights attorney, Areva Martin, is joining me now.

Areva, the officer is charged with negligent homicide.

I want to ask you, first, before we get into the details of this, do you think the charges that have come in several cases now would be the thing that is done if it hadn't have been cases like George Floyd or Tamir Rice?

Do you think that those have had a real impact on the fact these officers are being charged in some of these cases?

AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY & LEGAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, Sara. I've been a civil rights attorney for more than 20 years.

I can think back to the time period when there was a claim or a lawsuit filed by families and the lack of body cam video, the lack of cell phone, the lack of any kind of visual evidence made it very difficult to prosecute these cases both civilly.

[16:35:12]

And you didn't see criminal prosecutions of officers hardly at all. And if an officer was criminally prosecuted, rarely was there a conviction of the officer.

I think a lot has changed the last decade in terms of police officers being held accountable from a criminal standpoint.

But what saddens me and disappoints me, Sara, is we don't see the behaviors changing as it relates to these cases.

You would think see that the number of police officers we've seen in these high-profile cases that are charged, those are doing serious jail time now, prison time, that would change the way officers like this one involved conducts themselves on these kinds of cases.

Like this, where someone is called for a domestic violence case. And some of the evidence that we know, the wife has said she thought her husband was loaded or.

So there's information that would suggest different conduct on the part of the officers.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about this. Too often -- I hate to bring movies up - but too often, we see in movies officers giving chase and shooting someone at the back or shooting at cars as they're fleeing.

That's not something that's legal, correct? Officers, depending on what happens in this case, cannot just shoot you if you run away?

MARTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. Officers don't have an unfettered ability or the right to fire their weapon. There has to be a sense that they're in imminent harm. Imminent harm, that they are -- imminent bodily harm, caused to them or to the public.

And I'm not sure what that lawyer is making -- you know, eluding, to when he says just because the unarmed, you know, person that was killed in this case didn't have a gun doesn't mean he wasn't a danger to the officers.

There's nothing in the video that I witnessed, that I saw that would suggest that Mr. Bagley was in any way was a danger to the officer. But I think too often guns are drawn and guns are fired when there isn't imminent harm.

SIDNER: It's -- running away does not mean you're a threat.

Alonzo Bagley, you mentioned he was killed after police responded to a domestic disturbance call. And Bagley fled and police chased after him.

Now a Louisiana State Police investigator says the body camera footage, which we have not seen, we need to make that clear. But he says it shows that Bagley's hands were already up in the air in the split second after the shot was fired.

There is a view from the body cam, though it is obstructed, that the officer -- the way the officer is turned.

But does this affect how the case might be prosecuted? And I'm sure this video will certainly be used in court, whether by both sides or at least the prosecution.

MARTIN: Absolutely. To the extent that that body cam video we haven't seen yet shows that Mr. Bagley's hands were in the air it's going to be difficult for the defense attorney to make the claim he posed any threat to the officers.

And the initial question I had, Sara, is, he ran. And we've seen so many of these cases. Black men run from police because they are afraid. They've seen too many cases where, when they don't run, they end up in situations like Tyre Nichols, brutalized by police officers.

So why was this officer chasing him? What was the purpose of chasing him? And what was the purpose of drawing his gun in the first place?

Seemed there needed to be more investigation conducted at the apartment about whether a crime has been committed. Because having a dispute with your spouse or partner isn't necessarily a crime.

I'm not sure why he's making chase after Mr. Bagley and then why a weapon was drawn.

I think those are questions that have to be answered. And clearly, that defense attorney has to convince jurors, if this case goes to trial, that there was some legitimate reason in the first place to chase Mr. Bagley and definitely to use your weapon.

SIDNER: Clearly, prosecutors think something illegal happened because they have charged him.

Areva Martin, we always appreciate your analysis. You are great at this. I appreciate you. Thank you.

MARTIN: Thanks, Sara. Always --

[16:39:14]

SIDNER: Still ahead, the number of people killed in Turkey and Syria from the recent earthquake now has topped 46,000.

But search-and-rescue efforts aren't stopping as we see more hopeful reunions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMET AYYAN, EARTHQUAKE SURVIVOR WHO WAS REUNITED WITH HIS DAUGHTER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

AYYAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: That is a daughter and father reunited.

More from my reporting from Turkey, next. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

(CRYING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: The search for survivors is still happening in Turkey and Syria more than 10 days after that catastrophic earthquake.

Turkish officials say teams continue their efforts to find people who might be alive in hundreds of collapsed buildings across the country.

This, as the death toll there and in Syria has now surpassed 46,000 people.

But with the hope of finding survivors quickly fading, we are still hearing stories of people who have somehow, some way been pulled from the rubble alive.

This woman was one of three rescued in southern Turkey this morning, nearly 300 hours after their building collapsed.

Here are the other remarkable stories I was able to report on from Turkey this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FIREFIGHTER: (SPEAWKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SIDNER (voice-over): Firefighters scan the debris in Hatay for signs of life.

UNIDENTIFIED FIREFIGHTER: (SPEAWKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SIDNER: They ask him if there's anyone else with him and about his condition.

UNIDENTIFIED FIREFIGHTER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE). No, no.

SIDNER: "It's OK," the 65-year-old Syrian man tells them. It was the 208th hour, the ninth day, since the powerful earthquakes hit Turkey and Syria.

[16:45:03]

Six hours later, 77-year-old Fatma Gungor (ph) is pulled from under the rubble in Adiyaman.

As the death toll climbs at terrifying speeds, these are rare rescues and they've become the only source of hope.

(APPLAUSE)

SIDNER: This has largely turned into a recovery operation. Focus is shifting towards sheltering tens of thousands of people made homeless by the disaster and burying tens of thousands of others.

Families don't want to leave the site of their collapsed homes, hoping and praying to find loved ones, clinging to news of miracles.

Brothers 17-year-old Muhammed Enes Yeninar (ph) and his 21-year-old brother, Abdul Baki (ph), were pulled from under a collapsed eight- story building in Kahramanmaras on the 198th hour. They stayed alive by eating protein powder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHEERING)

SIDNER: In Adiyaman, rescuers tunneled through the debris to pull out 18-year-old Muhammed Cafer Cetin (ph).

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: This is well beyond the critical first 72 hours when most rescues happen.

Now, many calls for silence to hear the faint voices of trapped survivors are met with deafening silence.

Until --

(CRYING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUGE)

(CRYING)

SIDNER: -- another miracle happens.

(SHOUTING)

SIDNER: This 7-month-old baby was pulled from the rubble after 139 hours.

(SHOUTING)

SIDNER: After 167 hours under the suffocating debris, this man managed to pull himself out.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SIDNER: Joyous moments keep up the spirits of exhausted rescuers.

(CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SIDNER: These brothers were pulled one after the other in Hatay after more than a week with little or no water under entangled slabs of concrete and steel.

Many, though, will face a long recovery.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

SIDNER: Ferriss (ph) and Fatma (ph) were pulled out on the 209th hour. Their five children are believed to still be trapped underneath.

The bitter realization that some people are the only surviving members of an extended family.

(SHOUTING)

(CHEERING)

SIDNER: But that does not stop the celebrations --

(SHOUTING)

SIDNER: -- or the hope for yet another miracle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Those are amazing stories. But there is so much death there, I cannot tell you how horrible it was on the ground.

Still ahead, we're more than a year away from the next presidential election. But the 2024 primary field is starting to take shape with Nikki Haley and Donald Trump officially in on the Republican side.

So what's the best time to announce a candidacy for president? Well, Harry Enten is here. You won't want to miss it. He's going to run the numbers for us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:52:37]

SIDNER: Nikki Haley is in. Donald Trump is in. Joe Biden is waiting.

So what's the best time to join the race for the White House?

CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten, joins us to run the numbers.

Harry, what does your research show?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, so you know, at this particular point -- I always wonder, is this a year that's getting started earlier or later than prior years?

I think we have the whole idea that cycles are starting earlier and earlier.

I went back since 1972, and what we essentially see is the median date for presidential candidates to announce or file with the FTC, if they're running in non-incumbent primaries, is the 16th of March in the year before the general election.

So to me, we're actually quite on schedule at this particular point. We have a few candidates in, but there should be plenty more to join.

At this particular point, it's a locomotive that seems to be in line with past years.

SIDNER: We aren't that far from 2024. I can't believe I'm saying that, but it's coming fast.

So here's maybe a trick question. I don't know, you probably have the answer to it because you are the senior data reporter.

ENTEN: Oh, yes.

SIDNER: Do candidates tend to win more often if they get in the race earlier or if they get in the race later?

ENTEN: So my piece of advice here is it's better to be early than late.

So again, dating back since 1972, what we see is that more primary winners entered the race before the cycle's median. Ten of them did. Two of them got right in right at the middle. And five of them joined after a cycle's median.

On the whole, it's better to get in earlier than later. That's obviously not the case with everybody, right?

Ronald Reagan, for example, got in the race rather late, about three months after the cycle's meeting, versus someone like George McGovern, who joined nearly a year before that cycle's median.

So you can be really early and win but you can't be really late and win.

SIDNER: I want to pick a bone with you. Did you have to say nineteen hundred and 72? For those of us who are Gen-Xers, that hurt, OK? All right? Do you understand that?

ENTEN: I'm sorry. I'm deeply sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

SIDNER: Of course -- I'll try to stay on topic.

There's the question of whether and when Joe Biden might enter this race. What does history tell you about when he might decide to jump in? You have these other two candidates who have already thrown their hats in.

[16:55:00]

ENTEN: Yes. So if you're an incumbent, you can afford to wait. That's what the numbers tell us.

Again, if you look back at incumbents, dating back since 1976, what you see is the median date that they enter is a month and a half later than the median date for non-incumbents.

You can see on your screen right here, April 30th of the year before the general election.

If we look at a few examples, you can see that somebody like Ronald Reagan got in very, very late in the cycle. Of course, Donald Trump joined basically just as he started his presidency.

That's not Joe Biden. But the fact is Joe Biden has plenty of time. He has no real challenges at this point -- Sara?

SIDNER: I mean, he is the president, so his name is going to be out there generally for, you know, the next year.

ENTEN: Yes.

SIDNER: Harry Enten, it's always, always nice to see you.

Next time, can you come sit on set with me? I mean, it's a small set --

(CROSSTALK)

ENTEN: I know. Literally, we're -- we're right next to each other.

SIDNER: I know. I know.

ENTEN: My goodness. I'm going to say hi after the commercial break.

SIDNER: Awesome.

Thank you, Harry.

And still ahead, Secretary of State Antony Blinken meeting with his Chinese counterpart for the first time since the Chinese spy balloon incident. New reporting from Munich, up next.

But first, Glen Rose, Texas, has plenty of small-town charm. But it's the big dinosaur tracks and a mission to protect wildlife that entices visitor.

For more, let's go "OFF THE BEATEN PATH."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF DAVIS, PARK SUPERINTENDENT, DINOSAUR VALLEY STATE PARK: Glen Rose, Texas, is known as the dinosaur capital of Texas. Dinosaurs roamed this area and left their tracks for us to find.

Dinosaur Valley State Park is one of the gems. The most unique thing in the park is the dinosaur tracks. These are not just dinosaur tracks like you find in other parts of Texas. They are world-class dinosaur tracks. We're talking 113 million years ago.

The tracks in the park are everywhere. But we can only see them in the river. In the summer of 2022, there was a drought. We found dinosaur tracks we have never seen before.

The big ones you see, that's a three-toed carnivore dinosaur. It's called a theropod. They look almost like bird tracks except their the size of dinner plates.

Fossil Rim is one of our big neighbors where you can experience a whole different kind of wildlife.

ANDREW BULLARD, ENVIRONMENTAL LEARNING MANAGER, FOSSIL RIM WILDLIFE CENTER: We have roughly 50 different species on property on our 800 acres of land. Our mission is to conserve species in peril, help them live their best life and help get them back into the wild.

The most people know us for is our cheetahs and zebra. But we also have lot of different species of deer and gazelle.

A lot of the landscape here is similar to what you would see somewhere in Africa.

RAY CROSS, VISITOR, FOSSIL RIM WILDLIFE CENTER: We came here probably 30-something years ago with our kids, and we thought it would be fun to stop by and see it again.

BULLARD: We also do a lot of public education, teaching people about the land, about the animals we have here.

It takes a village to help conservation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)