Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Russia's Reaction to Biden's Trip; Conservatives Worried about DeSantis; Molly Ball is Interviewed about DeSantis' Possible Presidential Run; Winnie Brinks is Interviewed about Michigan's Gun Safety Bill. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 20, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Unprecedented presidential trip took place here in Kyiv, there's still a lot that needs to be worked out that was not solved and that the - that will continue as part of the conversations going forward, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that dynamic has been consistent for some time.

Alex Marquardt, in Kyiv, thanks so much.

Let's go now to CNN's Fred Pleitgen. He is live in Moscow this morning.

Fred, the U.S. says it informed Russia of Biden's trip before he departed for Kyiv. What has the reaction been in Russia?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Russians are talking about that as well, the fact that apparently they were informed before President Biden came here. And there's been sort of a two-fold reaction. We've been looking at state-run Kremlin- controlled media and they're actually - they're essentially saying that President Biden went to Kyiv at the mercy of Vladimir Putin, that Putin essentially allowed him to go there.

But there's also, quite frankly, some commentators, some military commentators out there who are quite angry about this, who say that Vladimir Putin should never have allowed this to happen and believe it's a weakness or a sign of weakness on the part of Vladimir Putin. But those are the - sort of the technicalities of things. Obviously, a lot of that is - is commentary. We really haven't heard anything from the Kremlin directly. And we believe that's because, of course, Vladimir Putin is soon going to hold an extremely important speech, less than a day from now, to the federal assembly where many people believe, and I've been speaking to a lot of folks here, Jim, on the ground who are part of politics here in Russia, they believe there's going to be a big, strong message coming from Vladimir Putin in that and that message certainly is going to be that Russia is not going to back down and, in fact, Russia is going to continue to escalate the war in Ukraine and stay with it. So, certainly, right now the message that we're getting from on the

ground here in Russia is that Vladimir Putin shows no sign of backing down. And, in fact, one of the interesting things that we've just heard, we've just spoken to a pollster, one of the most important pollsters here in Russia, who said that Vladimir Putin's approval ratings have actually gone up since he started what the Russians call the special military operation. So it seems as though, despite the fact that things aren't going well for Putin on the battlefield, people here in Russia still by and large are buying into Vladimir Putin's message.

And I think that President Biden's visit on the ground there in Kyiv is actually very important to that messaging. One of the things that the Russians have been trying to sort of point out or point to is the fact that they believe that right now they're not only in a war with Ukraine but essentially in a war against NATO and especially the United States, with all of those weapons coming in. Obviously the fact that Russia not doing too well on the battlefield, they're sort of trying to say, look, we're not just fighting the Ukrainians, it's all these arms coming in from other countries as well that are making it difficult. And certainly the Russians, though, at this point in time are saying, it's not going to stop and they do believe -- they still believe that they can outlast not just the Ukrainians but also western and U.S. support for Ukraine as well, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Of course, point of fact, Russia did start the war. They invaded Ukraine.

Fred, when you speak of escalation, is there any detail provided as to what escalation would mean specifically?

PLEITGEN: Well, one of - yes, well, one of the things, of course, that they've been talking about is this offensive that the Ukrainians also say they believe is going to come. I mean the Russians are saying, look, they have all these mobilized people, some of which have already gone to Ukraine but that really haven't hit the battlefield just yet, but they certainly do believe that there is more to come.

And I spoke to an analyst this weekend who said that the Russians still have a lot of people that they haven't mobilized yet, or who have been mobilized and haven't come to the battlefield.

One of the interesting points that he pointed out is, he thinks that the issue isn't really manpower for the Russians at that point in time, but it's actually getting these people the weapons that they need. You're not just talking about assault rifles, but also modern, by Russians standards, weapons as well and that that's really where Russia is lacking.

But I think one of the things that, you know, military analysts have told me, generally analysts have told me, is they believe that that offensive by the Russians is not something that's necessarily going to be something that's fast. Not where they're going to try and make fast gains, but really where they're going to try and overwhelm and essentially suffocate the Ukrainians on a lot of those battlefields by continuing to bring in more manpower and obviously more of the military hardware, some of which they still have from the Soviet Union. So, look for that to be a slow-moving thing. But the Russians definitely sending the message that they're in it for a long run and that they also believe that to them this is an existential war that they're fighting, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I should note the U.S. military view of the Russian offensive is skeptical. A U.S. official told me last week they view it as more aspirational than realistic. We'll be watching.

Fred Pleitgen, in Moscow, thanks so much.

Still ahead, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis speaking in New York this morning as speculation continues to percolate over his possible 2024 presidential run. Next, why some Republicans worry that his policy moves in Florida could become a problem for him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:59]

SCIUTTO: This morning, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is in New York where he spoke at a rally there supporting law enforcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): We support strong policies to keep our communities safe, and we back the blue and we support their mission and we back it up with money and all kinds of stuff to be able to do it. The reason why you have what you have in some of these other jurisdictions is because they're putting woke ideology ahead of your safety as New Yorkers or as people from Illinois or wherever you have this type of policy taking place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, U.S. police, NYPD, do say that they need better gun safety measures as well to fight crime. The governor has not announced that he is running for president. He seemed to be courting, however, New York voters this morning. His visit comes as some conservatives are concerned about how DeSantis is using his government powder (ph) in Florida and his fight against what he calls their wokeness.

CNN's Steve Contorno joins us now.

Steve, what specifically are Republican leaders worried about?

[09:40:02]

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Jim, there are a couple factors at play here. First is, you have conservative donors and organizations that generally believe that the government shouldn't be in the business of businesses. And that some of the steps taken by Governor DeSantis have inflicted his conservative ideology on state institutions, on businesses and sometimes even punishing businesses that run afoul of his point of view. We've seen obviously that has played out publicly in his fight with Disney over the so-called don't say gay bill, but we've also seen him punish businesses for their vaccination and mask policies. We've seen him put restrictions on how businesses can train their employees around issues of race schism. We've seen him now say he wants to go after banks that lend in ways that he doesn't agree with. So, there's that part of it.

But there's also Republicans, including his supporters, who are worried that he might be flying a little bit too close to the sun with his war on wokeness. You know, this most recent spat with the college board over this AP African American studies class, I mean, he is now talking about potentially pulling AP classes out of Florida entirely, finding alternatives to the SAT. These are things that parents around the country use to help their students get into good colleges, to save a bit of money on their higher education and there are concerns that they don't know how this is going to play out nationally when this stuff - when he starts campaigning in a national campaign.

And what we're seeing is Republican candidates starting to seize on this a bit, especially those who are start -- want to turn the page from these Trump-era politics. We've seen Governor Sununu of New Hampshire, former Governor Hogan of Maryland, Governor Hutchinson of Arkansas, they have all raised concern with how DeSantis has been so heavy handed with businesses.

Now, Jim, Governor DeSantis remains very popular in Florida. He's growing popularity across the country. He has quite a bit of support among those who want to see him challenge President Donald Trump. But these are the questions he is going to face from Republican voters and from his potential competitors if he does jump into that race.

SCIUTTO: Steve Contorno, thanks so much.

Joining us now, Molly Ball, national political correspondent for "Time" magazine.

So, Molly, the conventional wisdom, which I generally hate, had been, to some degree, that DeSantis was the kind of anti-Trump candidate, someone who could get the MAGA voters to back him, but not be Trump in effect. You would hear that from some Republican.

But to hear some conservatives now concerned that DeSantis' positions in Florida might be too out there, what are we seeing within the Republican Party right now?

MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": Well, I think a lot of it is that without an official candidacy by DeSantis, a lot of this is just filling a vacuum with sort of speculation and rumor.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BALL: Look, a lot of the things that Republican voters really like about Governor DeSantis are the similarities with Trump. Chiefly his willingness to use the force of the state, state coercion in some cases, to punish businesses and to enforce the sort of culture war initiatives that he has his eye on. And so that is, I think, viewed as a strength by many of DeSantis' fans. And it's a - it is a sort of similarity with Trump. He's been able to -- and I think this is also a sign of how the Republican Party has sort of realigned itself ideologically around the Trump access since Trump first became a candidate now nearly a decade ago. These concerns about the size and scope of government and the sort of ideologic libertarianism that use to underlie a lot of Republican doctrine is really not as much on people's minds as it used to be. And so a lot of the candidates who are more overtly against the sort of legacy that Trump has left in the party are, of course, going to object to that. But I think that is one of the things that for many Republican-based voters is a strength for DeSantis.

SCIUTTO: Yes, interesting you noted, it is eight years since that ride down the escalator for Trump.

I want to play something that Nikki Haley, who, of course, has already announced her candidacy for 2024, said during her travels through Iowa this week regarding Social Security and Medicare. Have a listen. I want to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is an issue of entitlements. And I think that we do have to address entitlements. However, I don't think we take away from anyone that we've promised things to. I think we focus on the new generation coming into the system because they already know they're not going to get anything from it. And we need to get in front of that. And that means you go and you look at the new ones coming in and you keep your promises to those that have already been in the system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I listen to that, that sounds a lot to me like saying, OK, you're already receiving Medicare, Social Security, you won't be touched, but the promise to those of us who are paying right now may not be kept, right? I mean that sounds to me like entitlements are on the table and this is a candidate for the Republican nomination in 2024.

BALL: Well, and, again, I feel like I'm having flashbacks to 2015, right? I mean this is exactly sort of the Paul Ryan line of the old Republican Party which was very determined to enact some sort of entitlement reform.

[09:45:08]

And it is still the case that a lot of fiscal conservatives, party donors, sort of old school Republican types do believe that the spending on these programs is unsustainable and there does have to be some reform. And it has always been the case that these sort of plans to reform entitlements for the most part have targeted future beneficiaries, not current beneficiaries who are already receiving or who are potentially about to receive these benefits. But it is obviously something that Trump has made a litmus test for the party and has made a dividing line in the party and that we have seen become a source of tension in the party between, for example, Mitch McConnell and Rick Scott because these entitlement programs are incredibly, incredibly popular. You know, 80, 90 percent of voters do not want to see any changes to Social Security.

SCIUTTO: No.

BALL: They're just viewed as a guarantee and something that many Americans feel like they've earned. So, you know, that was a big part of Trump's success in 2016. And I think it's something that again the party has sort of realigned itself around to the point where it's become -- well, it's always been sort of a third rail and it's become something that is seen as sort of untouchable. So this is going to be, I think, a live debate in the party in the primaries this year.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, they're not describing it as untouchable. And, by the way, we're all paying into it now, right? Just watch your paycheck every two weeks, those contributions still go in, whatever the discussions.

Molly Ball, thanks so much.

Well, still ahead, Michigan Democrats introducing now a wide slate of new gun safety legislation just days after a gunman killed three students at Michigan State. We're going to speak with the state senate's majority leader, who also has a daughter attending Michigan State.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:44]

SCIUTTO: Today, students return to Michigan State University. Classes resume. Those students will have to walk by a crime scene. This is one week after a gunman killed three students, wounded five others. Three of those injured remain in critical condition.

As the community tries to process that trauma, Michigan Democrats are moving swiftly to enact gun control, including new measures. Those measures would require the secure storage of firearms and ammunition, universal background checks for gun purchases, also create an extreme risk protection order, also known as a red flag law. When Democrat State Senate Majority Leader Winnie Brinks introduced the package, she spoke about her daughter who's a student at MSU.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINNIE BRINKS (D), MAJORITY LEADER, MICHIGAN STATE SENATE: I texted and I called my youngest daughter, an MSU student, every 20 minutes or half hour, scared that she would pick up and scared that she wouldn't.

Throughout our state, tens of thousands of parents were living that same nightmare, knowing no matter how many drills our kids had experienced, nothing could prepare them for what they were going through.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: I can only imagine.

State Senator Winnie Brinks joins me now.

And good to have you on this morning.

I have to say, as a parent myself, imagining making a phone call like you had to make last week, harrowing, frightful. Thankfully, your daughter's safe. I just wonder what that shooting was like for you to experience from afar?

WINNIE BRINKS (D), MAJORITY LEADER, MICHIGAN STATE SENATE: Yes, it was excruciating to watch as a parent and to see just dozens and dozens of police cars swarming throughout the campus, wondering where the shooter might pop up next. And, you know, I'm not alone. Tens of thousands of parents had that same experience, and tens of thousands of kids sheltering in place on the campus were wondering the same thing.

SCIUTTO: Democrats now control both houses of the Michigan legislature for the first time in some 40 years. There are 11 bills in this gun safety package. I wonder, what difference, in your view, will these measures make? I think folks at home, sadly, have become almost numb to shootings like this when they see them happen. So, why are you confident these measures will make a difference?

BRINKS: So, I think that we're finally seeing the tide turn when it has become a political liability to be against these kinds of reforms that we know will keep our kids safe. We are hearing from these students day after day. They're exhausted. They're tired of being prepared for disaster instead of having the adults in their world create an environment that is actually safe. We know these bills can make a difference.

SCIUTTO: Yes, the adults in their world. That's such a good way of framing that, right, because it's on the adults to make changes if they want to.

You talk about a change in the political winds certainly taking place, it seems, in the Michigan statehouse, but not here in Washington on Capitol Hill. I mean incremental measures, they did make it through in the last congress, but big picture things, such as banning assault weapons, just don't seem to have a life. And I wonder, do you believe you need national steps to truly make a difference, national legislation?

BRINKS: I would certainly love to see our leaders at the national level take a very strong stand on this. But in the absence of that, we know that we can make a difference state by state. Here in Michigan, for the first time, as you mentioned, in 40 years, we actually have both chambers controlled by people who are interested in making change and who are committed to listening to the students and to the parents across our state to prevent incidents like this, but also to make a difference in preventing all kinds of gun violence. So, we have the power to do that and we intend to act. SCIUTTO: So, let's take a look at the measures you are now proposing

here. If you were to apply them to this situation, the shooting at Michigan State, would they have prevented the shooting, made it harder for this particular gunman to get the weapons that he used?

BRINKS: Certainly, an extreme risk protection order may have been applicable here. You know, I don't know all the details of this exact situation as the investigation is still ongoing.

[09:55:03]

But if someone is known to be dangerous and known to possess a weapon, there could be a way to insure that they don't have access to that weapon and can't cause harm like this. Just 15 months ago there was a shooting at the Oxford High School here in Michigan, and we believed that the safe storage law could have made a difference there.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BRINKS: There was a, you know, a weapon available to a child in a home, and it was used in that shooting.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BRINKS: If it had been locked up or required to be locked up, it may have made a difference. But it's important to recognize that no one bill is going to solve all of these situations. And so we need to take a comprehensive approach. These bills, we believe, will make a difference.

SCIUTTO: Well, we noted last week that there are students at Michigan State who survived the Oxford shooting and then had to get through this.

We're glad your daughter's safe. State Senator Winnie Brinks, thanks so much for joining us.

BRINKS: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Up next, we are live in Ukraine and Poland following President Joe Biden's surprise visit to Kyiv, an active war zone, today. His clear message to Vladimir Putin and new pledges of support to Ukraine. All that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]