Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden Speaks in Poland; Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze is Interviewed about the War in Ukraine; Putin Not Participating in Treaty; Supreme Court Case Challenges Big Tech. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 21, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:25]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kristin Fisher.

Soon, President Biden is going to be speaking from Warsaw, Poland, just one day after his unprecedented trip to Ukraine's capital. The president, of course, expected to reiterate support for Ukraine and affirm western values, rather than rebut Russian President Vladimir Putin's speech, which, of course, we heard this morning.

SCIUTTO: That's right, dueling speeches. In that speech, the Russian president blamed the U.S. for the escalation of the war in Ukraine, though, of course, it was Russia that invaded Ukraine a year ago this week.

Putin also announced that Russia would officially suspend its participation in the New START nuclear weapons treaty. We should note, the State Department said last month Russia was already not in compliance with that treaty. Of course, the question now is what happens next.

This morning, the Polish president, Andrzej Duda, rolled out the red carpet for President Biden. The two sat down for a closed-door meeting. This just one day after Biden's secret visit to Kyiv.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would argue NATO is stronger than it's ever been. As I told President Zelenskyy when we spoke in Kyiv yesterday, I can proudly say that our support for Ukraine remains unwavering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We begin in Warsaw where President Biden will speak in the coming hours.

CNN anchor and chief correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins us with more.

Kaitlan, the White House deliberately saying this is not a response to Putin's speech. So, what do we expect the president's message to be?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they said it's not going to be some kind of direct rebuttal. They don't want to view it as dueling speeches. They didn't frame it that way. But it will be challenging what Putin said in his speech, what he's been saying for months now, ever since he started this invasion of Ukraine. And I think it will also not only be a challenge to what Putin has been talking about, but also an appeal to other western allies and European allies to continue supporting Ukraine throughout this and really framing it in the broader picture of what it means, not just for Ukraine, not just for Russia, not just for Poland, but really the global world order and what that looks like and maintaining that world order as you heard President Duda referencing there as he was meeting with President Biden.

And I think one thing to note here when it comes to this speech is, it's the same place where President Biden gave the speech 11 months ago. Right after Russia had invaded Ukraine, he gave this forceful rebuke of Putin and what he has been arguing. And also was when he used that moment to say that he believed Putin could not remain in power. Of course, now he is back here in Warsaw 11 months later to deliver another speech with similar themes about standing up for democracy versus autocracy and what that looks like.

And one thing that the White House has been pushing back on this morning is an argument that Putin was making in his speech, which is that the west is responsible for what's happening in Ukraine. That it is responsible for this war. And Jake Sullivan, who is President Biden's national security adviser, said there's an easy way to push back on that, which is that if Russia left Ukraine tomorrow, the war would end. But they believe if western support, if U.S. support for Ukraine stopped, that Ukraine would disappear from the map. And so they are pushing back on that.

We'll see if he weighs in on what President Biden -- or what President Putin said specifically about this nuclear arms agreement. We are seeing, though, a response of that, calling it irresponsible coming from the secretary of state.

FISHER: And that critical speech from President Biden getting underway in just about two and a half hours from now.

Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much.

So, this morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin responding to President Biden's trip to Ukraine yesterday, claiming that the U.S. is, quote, responsible for the escalation of the situation in Ukraine, which is what Kaitlan was just referring to.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and, of course, denying the cold hard fact that Russia invaded Ukraine a year ago, also in 2014 in Crimea.

CNN's senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen, he is in Moscow.

Fred, Putin also said that Russia is now officially suspending participation in the New START nuclear arms treaty. Now, the State Department, as you know, has said Russia was already not complying with that by not allowing inspections. What's the significance? What are Russian officials saying about this announcement?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it potentially could be a quite big significance. One of the things that Vladimir Putin said is that they are suspending their participation but they're not completely walking away from it. So it certainly seems as though Vladimir Putin has left the door open to possibly walk back on what he said today and possibly come back or get into the agreement or utilize the agreement once again.

But it is still very significant because one of the things that Vladimir Putin said would not happen in the future anymore is any sort of inspections by U.S. officials at Russian bases.

[09:05:04]

And that appears to be a reaction to the fact that you'll recall last year the Russians accused the Ukrainians of striking an air base in Russia called the Engels Air Base where Russia has strategic bombers that are, of course, nuclear capable. The Ukrainians had always said that the Russians are using those to launch cruise missiles at Ukrainian targets. Vladimir Putin, in his speech today, as a justification for suspending the START agreement, he said, look, they are helping Ukraine to bomb our bases and now they want to inspect the bases. He considers that to be, quote, nonsense. So that was the justification that Vladimir Putin gave on that.

Certainly could be quite a significant step. At the same time he is kind of leaving the door open as we said. But, of course, you guys are absolutely right, Vladimir Putin really trying to stylize this, if you will, to a conflict between Russia and the west. It's very important for Vladimir Putin, obviously, especially with some of the setbacks that the Russians have been suffering on the battlefield. That was, by the way, one of the things that we noticed Vladimir Putin did actually not talk very much about. He did say that Russia was in it for the long haul. That this was going to be a very long special operation, as he called it, but didn't speak about the way things are going for the Russians on the battlefield. Of course, we know, things have been quite difficult for the Russian military as of late.

Guys.

FISHER: Yes, Fred Pleitgen, live in Moscow for us. Thank you, Fred.

SCIUTTO: Right now I do want to speak to a member of Ukraine's parliament, Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

IVANNA KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE, MEMBER OF UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: You were noting on Twitter as Putin was speaking this morning that Russia was bombing -- continuing to bomb Ukraine, striking a pharmacy, a public transportation stop in Kherson in the south, killing people.

I wonder, as you heard the Russian president dig in, in effect, for the war in Ukraine, no sign of an interest in negotiation, are you bracing yourself for a long war -- an even longer war now in Ukraine?

KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: Well, it's just a reminder this war has been ongoing for nine years with one year of the full-scale invasion. So it's already quite a long war. And we have to ensure that it ends as soon as possible. But for that it's not enough to have courage and resolve of the Ukrainian nation and Ukrainian forces of defense. It is important to be backed with the instruments to protect our civilians and to kick these invaders out. And that means additional weaponry for Ukraine and that means also the urgency of its delivery.

I think all of that could help to finally defeat Russian Federation and actually ensure that autocracies who understand only the language of power and the language of strength would finally back off.

SCIUTTO: It appears that Ukrainian commanders are preparing for a counteroffensive, intended, as you say, to take back territory in the coming weeks and months, taking advantage of some of these weapons systems newly sent into Ukraine, such as Leopard battle tanks, Abrams tanks, et cetera. Are you confident that Ukraine has the ability to take back territory even as Russia is expanding the number of forces it has deployed in the east?

KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: Well, once again, it's the urgency of the delivery which matters after the political decisions have been taken. So we're still waiting for those Leopard tanks and Abrams tanks to actually come into Ukraine. Especially also in the quantities that we need as our commander in chief was requesting, I think also pretty clearly on the international scene.

And then I think we would be prepared to -- and equipped to liberate our territories. But once again, instruments are needed and the courage is not enough.

SCIUTTO: U.S. officials said this weekend that they are now concerned that China might take a step it has not taken yet in this war, and that is provide lethal aid, weapons, ammunition to Russia. How concerned are you about that? Do you believe that if China were to come on to Russia's side, that that might tip the war in Russia's favor?

KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: Well, definitely we are concerned about this potential development. We are waiting to hear what the head of the Chinese republic will actually say on the 24th of February as it was announced that he has some plans to announce his -- I don't know, suggestions for the - for the peace. I do not believe that they will be to any favor of Ukrainian position, but definitely for us it's a warning sign and that means that Russia will have additional equipment on the top of the cannon fodder that they are using at this particular moment by trying to occupy additional territories of Ukraine.

[09:10:05] And so, yes, we are worried. But, again, we are hoping for wise neutrality or relative neutrality that China has been conducting up until now.

SCIUTTO: Are you concerned at all, as you see the U.S. and NATO on Ukraine's side, of course, providing much needed support, Russia, on the other side, and China perhaps joining Russia, are you concerned that Ukraine becomes a proxy war between the super powers here and that in effect you're stuck in between that conflict and that that lengthens the conflict and the suffering for the Ukrainian people?

KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: You have to understand, Russia has started this war as an imperial colonial war to ensure that Ukrainian nation and Ukrainian state are eradicated from the map of the world. And that is the first task. And if it succeeds, if it's allowed to succeed, then it will go further and then it will definitely turn into much wider conflict across the globe.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: So, therefore, I think we all have the chance right now where our interests are coincided in order to prevent Russia from spreading its attacks on other territories and regions to finish this war with picking them out from Ukrainian territory.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and it's been already so bloody in the first year.

Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: Thank you.

FISHER: And joining us now to talk about all of this, CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Good morning, General.

And I'd like to start by just getting your reaction to what we heard today from President Putin. Your reaction to his speech and then also I think really the big news from that speech this morning, which was that Russia was going to be pulling out -- or not participating in the New START nuclear treaty. How do you view that bit of news in particular? Do you view it as, you know, more symbolic, or does it - does it have some real teeth?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, yes, good morning, Kristin and Jim.

I do see it as somewhat symbolic, but I also see it as Putin hurting himself. I think he wants to gain more intelligence from us than we want to gain from him with this New START Treaty. And, you know, the comment by Fred Pleitgen earlier about, you know, they were concerned about how much intelligence Ukraine had gained from the Engels Air Force Base in Russia, which is near Moscow, it was just fascinating to me because it's basically saying, hey, they want to target our facilities. Of course, they do. You know, but going back to your original question, I -- like Fred

Pleitgen, I woke up and watched Mr. Putin's speech. Besides the New START Treaty, the comments about pedophilia in the west, traitors in Russia will be punished, the west started the war, western elites are responsible for Ukrainian escalation, these are similar tropes that we've been hearing from Mr. Putin all year long. So, his state of the Russia Federation, unlike our State of the Union, at least he didn't have someone standing up yelling liar, but he did have a lot - he did have a lot of sleepy parliamentary members and generals in that audience because they have heard it all before.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you, General Hertling, that is not -- those are not the words of a president who is looking to end this war. He's digging in and he may have China's help going forward. There was some hope that maybe this was the year that Ukraine breaks through those Russian lines, takes back territory, maybe Russia sues for peace. But, I mean, is that, as you hear those words and you hear China considering stepping in, does that hope disappear?

HERTLING: It doesn't, Jim. And one of the things I didn't mention about his speech, he had a big section where he vowed to systemically press the offensive, which tells me he's not changing his strategic objectives. And as you and I have talked on several occasions, those five strategic objectives that he had at the beginning of the war have failed in every single phase of the war.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HERTLING: He has not been able to press those. He has shown, you know, the inability to get his soldiers moving on the battlefield. And I don't think we're going to see any more of that other than more killing of Russian mobilized troops, which is going to be unfortunate.

So, the China -

SCIUTTO: But let me ask --

HERTLING: Yes, go I ahead. I'm sorry.

SCIUTTO: Is the effect of that, if Russia is incapable of gaining back territory but it's digging in and it's going to have help from China, is the effect of that just lengthening the slog in effect, right? You know, no clear winner but a lot of, sadly, death and destruction on the battlefield, like we've seen so much in recent weeks?

HERTLING: Yes, I think what we're going to see in the next couple of weeks is a rush to victory by both sides, if you will.

[09:15:02]

Russia is going to continue to put more on the front lines, but they're mobilized, untrained forces, and it will create a slog and, unfortunately, a lot of death for Russia soldiers and Ukrainians as well. But I think Ukraine is attempting to push the envelope, get trained in Europe, in Germany, in Poland, in the U.K., the various places where they're training, and being able to capably execute an offensive. And I see that happening later in the - in the winter, probably early spring. So, we're going to see some back and forth for a while, but I do believe that Ukraine is going to take the fight to the enemy and regain much of their territory in the spring and early summer.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. So, it will be a lot to watch in the coming weeks because both sides seem to be digging in for something aggressive.

Lieutenant Colonel Mark Hertling, thanks so much, as always. Lieutenant General - did I say -- I didn't say colonel, did I? You're a lieutenant general for sure. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

HERTLING: (INAUDIBLE) -

FISHER: Thank you, General.

HERTLING: Those were some of my best years, Jim. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we do not demote our guests on the air.

This morning, back home in the U.S., the Supreme Court will hear arguments in a pivotal case for big tech companies. The family of a terror attack victim is suing Google, claiming that it promoted ISIS content on its websites. What the results could mean for internet regulation.

Plus, a dash cam captures the moment an aftershock nearly as large, goodness, as the initial earthquakes rocks Turkey. We're going to take you there live as terrified people have resorted to sleeping on the streets.

FISHER: And in about 15 minutes, court resumes in the Alex Murdaugh double murder trial. A source telling CNN that his surviving son, Buster, is expected to take the stand as the defense presents its case this week. And we're going to take you there live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:54]

FISHER: Today at the Supreme Court, a reminder of the terror attacks in Paris nearly eight years ago now that killed about 130 people. The family of the lone American killed in that attack suing Google arguing the company promotes and profits from extremist content posted on YouTube.

SCIUTTO: That was a horrible day, that attack. It is one of the most significant challenges to big tech in recent history. It could have major implications on the liability shields that have so far protected tech platforms, such as Google and others, from lawsuits.

CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us now.

Jessica, you spoke to the family behind this case. First of all, what's their argument, and what's the court's approach to this?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They're really putting the human side of this into focus in what is a very complex case.

So, this is the family of that American student who was killed in Paris in 2015. They want YouTube, and its parent company Google, held liable for her death at the hands of ISIS terrorists. They say that Google not only allowed on YouTube this terrorist content, these terrorist videos, but also that they recommended these videos to certain viewers.

YouTube is responding back saying, yes, we have these algorithms that make these certain recommendations, but were broadly protected under Section 230, which does broadly protect internet companies.

And these tech companies, they're really saying here now that if that protection gets chipped away, it could really mean monumental changes for the internet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEATRIZ GONZALEZ, LOST DAUGHTER IN 2015 ISIS ATTACK: We continue in this fight because we're seeking justice.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): The Gonzalez family's long legal fight started when their 23-year-old daughter Nohemi was killed in Paris in 2015. Nohemi Gonzalez was at a bistro when ISIS terrorists unleashed gunfire, part of a coordinated city wide attack of bombings and shootings that killed 129 people. She was the only American.

B. GONZALEZ: It was a terrible, horrible moment of my life that I cannot describe the pain.

SCHNEIDER: The Gonzalez family now wants YouTube and parent company Google to be held liable for Nohemi's death. They have lost in the lower courts, but the Supreme Court agreed to hear their appeal and their lawyers will now try to convince the nine justices that YouTube's algorithms promoted ISIS affiliated viewers to certain viewers and that is how ISIS recruited and enlisted support.

NITSANA LEITNER, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY SUING GOOGLE: Instead of terminating these videos, instead of eliminating them, instead of deleting them, they promoted them.

SCHNEIDER: But Google says they aren't responsible, given the broad protections of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Congress passed the law in 1996 to shield internet platforms from being sued for harmful content posted by third parties on their sites. Google argues its algorithms recommending content are what makes it possible to find the needles in humanities largest haystack, warning that if section 230 does not apply to how websites sort content, the internet would devolve into a disorganized mess and a litigation minefield.

There's no evidence the Paris attackers were specifically radicalized on YouTube, but Nohemi's parents still allege YouTube aided and abetted ISIS and should not be able to hide behind Section 230.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They should have stopped it. They have the - the power to do it. SCHNEIDER: This will be the first time the Supreme Court has consider the scope of Section 230 and the extent to which it protects social media companies. The push to reform Section 230 is widespread. Last month President Biden penned and op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" calling for modifications and Republicans have repeatedly blasted big tech for what they call alleged censorship of conservative ideas. The Gonzalez family, though, just wants justice for the death of their daughter at the hands of ISIS-linked terrorists.

B. GONZALEZ: Nothing is going to give me back my daughter, but at least that is something good is going to be accomplished.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And this case being held -- heard at 10:00 this morning. The Gonzales family will be in the courtroom.

But, guys, this isn't the only big case before the court.

[09:25:00]

There will be another one tomorrow that will also deal with a family suing big tech companies, Google, Twitter, Facebook. That's under a different law, an anti-terrorism law. So there are two big cases at stake here. Big tech really bracing for what could be the ramifications because if these protections get chipped away, it could mean big changes in how they operate. They might have to take down a lot more speech than they previously did.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and a lot more quickly.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider, fascinating.

FISHER: Yes, this could impact all of them,

SCHNEIDER: Yes, for sure.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

FISHER: Facebook, Twitter, YouTube.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

FISHER: All right, Jessica Schneider, thank you so much.

Still ahead, a clinic opens today for people who say that they've had symptoms ever since that toxic train wreck more than two weeks ago. What we expect to hear as the EPA chief is back in East Palestine, Ohio, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:30:00]