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Supreme Court Hears Cases That Could Reshape Internet; EPA Chief, Ohio Governor Visit Residents Near Train Derailment; EPA Orders Norfolk Southern To Pay For Derailment Cleanup; Arrest Made In Shooting Death of Catholic Bishop In Los Angeles; Virginia Voters Head To Polls In Special Congressional Election; Potential Trump-DeSantis Match Has GOP Bracing For Ugly Primary; Alex Murdaugh's Surviving Son Testifies For The Defense. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired February 21, 2023 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: And sounds like the plaintiffs, individuals who brought this suit, are having a tough time in this court.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We heard, Abby, throughout these three hours of arguments the justices here on both sides, liberal and conservative, really repeatedly acknowledging how consequential a ruling in this case would be if they side with the family of the terror victim.
All nine of these justices really seemed to struggle with whether the court should step in here. Because, in doing so, they would be chipping away at some of the protections that Section 230 provides.
And that would result in a flood of lawsuits and really turn the Internet into a Wild, Wild West atmosphere.
You know this is such a big case because courts, they've repeatedly found that Section 230 broadly protects Internet providers from liability that stems from content that third parties post on their platforms, which is the crux of social media.
What the family in this case is asking the Supreme Court to do is to hold YouTube responsible for the death of their 23-year-old daughter, who was killed in the Paris terrorist attack in 2015.
Because, this family says, that not only did YouTube allow ISIS videos to be posted on their site, but also that YouTube used its algorithms to recommend those ISIS videos to certain viewers. And they say that aided and abetted terrorism.
The family has lost in the lower courts, largely because of the protection of Section 230.
And in particular, Justice Elena Kagan expressed a lot of concern about wiping away the protections that Section 230 does provide.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
ELENA KAGAN, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Every other industry has to internalize the costs of misconduct. Why is it that the tech industry gets a pass? A little bit unclear.
On the other hand, we're a court. We really don't know about these things. You know, these are not like the nine greatest experts on the Internet.
(LAUGHTER)
KAGAN: Isn't that something for Congress to do, not the court?
(END AUDIO FEED)
SCHNEIDER: So the justices really struggled here to understand the issues in this case and to decide what to do here.
Abby, this won't be the last that they'll here on the issue. This is the first of two cases. They'll hear the other one tomorrow.
All of these cases will determine, should social media companies be held liable for terrorist content posted on their sites?
The bigger question will be in the case tomorrow. Big tech has been arguing here that they can't possibly patrol everything that's posted.
They say they have these algorithms that recommend certain content and those are necessary to help users sort through a vast universe of content in all subject areas, not just terrorism.
And the justices really did take to that argument here. So we'll get a decision in this case likely the end of June.
But if they were to side with the terror victims here, it would create possibly a lot of problems with the Internet and change it as we know it. That's what big tech companies are warning here -- Abby?
PHILLIP: It would be consequential one way or another how this would affect how we deal with the Internet that we deal with every single day.
Jessica Schneider, thank you for all of that.
And the top U.S. environmental official is in East Palestine right now. People there are worried about their health more than two weeks after a train that was loaded with toxic chemicals derailed.
EPA Administrator Michael Regan and Ohio Governor Mike DeWine visited homes. They even drank tap water to try to assuage people's fears.
Some have complained about rashes, headaches, nausea and other symptoms that they're worried are linked to that train crash and the chemicals that that may have been emitted in a controlled explosion.
CNN's Miguel Marquez is in East Palestine where the EPA has just completed a news conference.
So, Miguel, fill us in on what was learned after that news conference?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're still in the middle of a news conference. The governor of Ohio still talking to members of the press here.
It was the governor of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the EPA administrator here to announce two things essentially, that they want to hold Norfolk Southern responsible for all costs in cleaning up this mess.
And they want to assure the people of East Palestine and the surrounding area, also into Beaver County in Pennsylvania that borders this area, that the water, their air, is safe to both breathe and to drink.
And they say they will do that for months, if not years ahead.
They publicly committed to ensuring that Norfolk Southern completely cleans this up to their standards.
To that, the EPA administrator says that he has signed an order to force Norfolk Southern to come up with a plan that EPA and the two states have to sign off on.
And it will include them cleaning up all the soil and water to their specifications and carting it away. And then continuing to pay for testing, health concerns.
[13:35:01]
A new clinic set up here in East Palestine today that if people have health concerns, like nausea and rashes and sore throat that some people have reported, they can go there. If they don't have insurance and need more assistance, they can get it at the clinic.
The governor of Pennsylvania saying he has already made a criminal referral in this case as well. Ohio saying that they are considering that.
The National Transportation Safety Board is also conducting an investigation into why this crash happened. And once those results are out, they'll have a better sense of if anybody will be held criminally responsible.
Back to you.
PHILLIP: Yes. So much more to unfold there in that story.
Miguel Marquez, thank you for being there for us.
Now to Los Angeles, where a man is in custody over the death of a beloved Catholic bishop. David O'Connell was found in his bed over the weekend. He had been fatally shot.
CNN's Josh Campbell in Los Angeles for us. Josh, the bishop, it seems, knew the man who has been arrested?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Abby. That is key because it does not appear that this was random.
I'll walk you through the timeline. On Saturday, a deacon goes to the bishop's home because he has missed a meeting, and he finds him unresponsive, later pronounced dead.
The sheriff says it was a tipster who helped them solve the case. The unidentified person told police a man in his 60s, named Carlos Medina, had been acting strange as of late and making comments about the bishop owing him money.
Authorities say Medina was married to the bishop's housekeeper.
In addition to that witness information, sheriff's detectives also reportedly found surveillance footage showing the suspect's car around the bishop's home.
Authorities tried to arrested Medina yesterday but he resisted. He leads them on an hours-long standoff, finally ending in him being taken into custody by an L.A. Sheriff's Department tactical team.
L.A. Sheriff Robert Luna told us the motive right now, Abby, is unclear, although there have been reports of some type of financial dispute between the suspect and the bishop.
The sheriff says his investigators have not yet drawn any conclusions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT LUNA, SHERIFF, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: I'm not standing here in front of you telling you it's a dispute over money yet. It's something we've heard to this point and that is something that the detectives will go out and validate and see if it's true or not.
Based on what I know at this time, the suspect had been at the bishop's house before, doing work. So there was some kind of a maybe a working relationship, but we're still trying to figure out what that relationship was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL: Now Medina has not been charged. And CNN is attempting to identify whether he has an attorney.
He is being held, according to court records, on $2 million bond as investigators work to piece together what happened here.
And why, Abby, community members of all faiths here in Los Angeles and around the country have been expressing anger and grief over the brutal killing of this beloved bishop -- Abby?
PHILLIP: Josh Campbell, in Los Angeles, thank you for that. And up next for us, the 2024 matchup that isn't even official yet is
defining the Republican primary so far. We'll tell you why Trump versus DeSantis is about to get ugly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:42:39]
PHILLIP: Right now, Virginia voters are heading to the polls and one candidate is on the cusp of history. Today's special election is to fill the seat that was held by the late Congressman Donald McEachin.
A Democratic state senator, Jennifer McClellan, is facing off against Republican Leon Benjamin in the heavily blue district that includes the city of Richmond.
But if McClellan wins, she would be the first black woman to represent the Commonwealth of Virginia in the United States Congress, an extraordinary realization in the year 2023.
But let's go to CNN's Melanie Zanona on Capitol Hill for us.
Melanie, what should we be watching tonight in this race?
MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, it definitely could be a historic election, as you mentioned, Abby.
The late Congressman Donald McEachin passed away in November following a battle with cancer.
And the two candidates running to replace him are State Senator Jennifer McClellan, who served in the legislature before. She's the Democrat in the race. The Republican is Leon Benjamin. He is a conservative pastor.
Both of these candidates have run for office before. McClellan, in addition to serving in the legislature, ran for governor in the primary. And Benjamin ran for this exact seat before losing by double digits.
As you mentioned, McClellan, if elected, would become the first black woman to represent Congress in Virginia, which is a big deal. It's really remarkable that it would take this long to get to that point.
She's talked about the importance of bringing diverse perspectives to the table.
She's talked about her family's own experiences growing up in the segregated south and why that pushed her to become a champion for voting rights and other issues that she's made a hallmark of her congressional campaign.
Now this is a Democratic stronghold. It went for President Biden by over 35 points. So the special election likely isn't going to change the margins in Congress, Abby. But as we said, it could have historical implications. PHILLIP: Yes, absolutely. She's also outspent her opponent by a
significant amount. Maybe not too much of a surprise expected here for us tonight.
Melanie Zanona, on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.
And Trump versus DeSantis, it's still a hypothetical matchup but it already has Republicans bracing for a bitter primary.
[13:44:59:]
The Florida governor and former president have stayed out of each other's way but that could change very soon.
"The Washington Post" zoomed in on the tensions between the two camps, writing:
"As some Republicans loudly pin their hopes on DeSantis to overtake Trump as the party's new standard barrier, years of grudges and slights are coming to a head as potentially defining dynamic -- as a potentially defining dynamic of the GOP primary."
The co-author of the story, Josh Dawsey, is joining us now.
Josh, thanks for being here.
I want to highlight another part of your piece, where it says, quote, "Trump advisors say he wants to make it painful for DeSantis to enter the race."
So DeSantis has been basically trying to ignore Trump for the most part, going and doing his stops all over the place.
Trump is starting to dip his toe into some counterattacks. Even just a few minutes ago, attacking him over his stewardship over the state of Florida.
How bad could this get and how quickly?
JOSH DAWSEY, POLITICAL INVESTIGATIONS REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right. Well, it's not quite counterattacks. DeSantis isn't doing anything against Trump.
I mean, he's made implicit criticisms of him saying we'll get a margin of victory I won by, look at what we're doing in Florida. But he's been extraordinarily careful not to say the former president's name.
You have Trump, who is ratcheting up all sorts of vicious attacks, some of them personal, a lot of them false I'm not going to repeat on air.
But some of them looking at his COVID record, looking at his personality, continually saying, I made this guy, he would be nothing without me. He's testing out all sorts of things.
If you look at his Truth Social page, it's often what he's focused on in his mind is what he's posting about. In the last couple weeks, a relentless rat-a-tat-tat attack regiment on Ron DeSantis.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, even just a few minutes ago, yet another attack on him.
I mean, this is happening in the context of there really being only one declared candidate in the race right now, Nikki Haley.
DAWSEY: Right.
PHILLIP: But you have others like former Vice President Mike Pence tiptoeing around running. And also around Trump. None of them seem to be willing to criticize him.
What did you -- look at the DeSantis-Trump relationship. Do you believe DeSantis plans at some point to be a lot more direct about dealing with Trump and really taking him on directly?
DAWSEY: Well, it's hard to know. He's played his cards close to the vest. I don't report to have any insider knowledge on what his strategy is going to be on Trump.
If you look back at previous elections, previous races, folks have said, I'll let someone else attack Trump, I'll wait and attack Trump.
And you know, Abby, you've covered this, what has happened really is Trump has emerged victorious. It's been too late or the attacks didn't land.
There's a little bit of dynamic here. If you look at 2016, the last time Trump was in a contested GOP primary, he had wall-to-wall media coverage of his rallies. He has his Twitter microphone.
He had a personality that was new to the American public in a lot of ways and his image was a lot different. It remains unseen to me yet if his attacks will land the same way that they did in the past.
I think that's one of the things we're watching, how much do Republican voters actually respond to his personal insults, attacks, and that sort of thing?
I think Nikki Haley and Pompeo and Pence and DeSantis and others are watching as well.
Because the reality is Trump has a lower, you know, floor maybe than he used to, but he still has higher numbers than any of the rest of the other candidates do.
PHILLIP: And universal name recognition.
You make a good point. I mean, Trump is not out there the way he was in 2016, so it's a really different ballgame for him this time around.
Josh Dawsey, thanks. Always great to have you with us on all of this.
[13:48:55] And still to come for us, witnesses for the defense. Alex Murdaugh's surviving son testifies in his father's double murder trial. We'll go live to South Carolina for an update in that case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:53:50]
PHILLIP: Alex Murdaugh's only surviving son took the stand in his father's double murder trial.
Buster Murdaugh told jurors that his father was, quote, "destroyed and heartbroken" over the deaths of his wife and son.
CNN's Randi Kaye is covering the trial in Walterboro, South Carolina.
Randi, what is he saying?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Abby, one of the main things they talked about today is the interview that Alex Murdaugh gave investigators after the murders.
One of the investigators testified he thought he heard a confession when Alex was saying "They did him so bad," talking about his son, Paul. The investigator thought he heard, "I did him so bad."
So today, the defense played that video again, that recording and got Buster Murdaugh's opinion. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you listened to it, would you able to tell the jury whether it's "I" or "they?"
BUSTER MURDAUGH, SURVIVING SON OF ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Your Honor, I'd like to pull out Exhibit 153, the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX MURDAUGH, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF WIFE AND SON: They did him so bad. They did him so bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What did your dad say?
B. MURDAUGH: He said, "They did him so bad. They did him so bad."
UNIDENTIFIED DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Is that the first time you heard him say "They did him so bad?"
[13:55:01]
B. MURDAUGH: No, sir. UNIDENTIFIED DEFENSE ATTORNEY: When was the first time you heard him
say, "They did him so bad?"
B. MURDAUGH: The first time I heard him say that was the night I went down to Moselle, the night of June the 7th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Now, of course, the defense took every opportunity with Buster on the stand to try to paint a picture of a loving family, a family that went to sporting events together, called and texted each other every day.
But, Abby, there seemed to be a missed opportunity. They never asked him directly, "Do you think your father is capable of this, would he ever do this to his family?"
No question of anything like that was ever asked of Buster Murdaugh on the stand.
Back to you.
PHILLIP: Randi Kaye, thank you very much for that.
That does it for me. But don't go anywhere. There's much more news ahead right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
