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Biden: "Ukraine Will Never Be A Victory For Russia, Never"; EPA Demands Norfolk Southern Handle All Cleanup From Derailment; Sources: McCarthy Giving Tucker Carlson All Jan. 6 Security Footage. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired February 21, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

President Biden on the global stage in Poland today vowing that Ukraine will never be a victory for Russia. The president spoke just a short time ago right on Ukraine's doorstep, and one day after he made that surprise trip to Kyiv. He said Ukraine is unbowed nearly one year after Russian President Vladimir Putin sent troops and tanks rolling across the border and a war that is still raging.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One year ago, the world was bracing for the fall of Kyiv. Well, I just come from a visit to Kyiv, and I can report Kyiv stands strong. Kyiv stands proud. It stands tall and most important, it stands free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Two extraordinary scenes today of two very different leaders. President Biden spoke just hours after his Russian counterpart delivered his own address in Moscow. During his speech, President Putin blamed the U.S. and the West for the war. He also announced he's suspending Russia's participation in the New START nuclear arms control treaty.

Now, CNN chief White House correspondent Phil Mattingly is in Warsaw, Poland. Phil, President Biden said the Russian invasion went beyond Ukraine, that it tested freedom and democracies everywhere, and says that there is one word that stops these autocracies. That word is no.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right. This was a speech that was meant to elevate the moment, elevate the fight, and elevate what has been a struggle over the course of the last year that as the President laid out Western -- the Western alliance has remained remarkably durable, remarkably steadfast, and absolutely essential to Ukraine's ability to still be standing at this moment in time. And yet, it is very clearly as the president laid out, not over and there's going to be struggles ahead.

But that is why, according to the president, he made so clear that the U.S. support is unequivocal. Ukraine's existence is a pledge that the president said would be maintained. But most importantly, the stakes of the actual fight itself are so much bigger than just Ukraine and Russia or Russia and the United States. This was how he framed things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Appetites of the autocrat cannot be appeased. They must be opposed. Autocrats only understand one word, no, no, no. No, you will not take my country. No, you will not take my freedom. No, you will not take my future. And Ukraine, Ukraine will never be a victory for Russia, never.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: You know, guys, it was interesting the president really framing the decisions that will be made by world leaders, particularly those among Western democracies over the course of the coming months, will echo far beyond just the year ahead. And the fight that's going on in Ukraine and continues to this day will echo for decades to come.

And if that's the frame, when you talk to the president's advisors going into this day going into this speech that they really wanted to highlight that the president really wanted to make clear, just the scale of the struggle that the president framed as at an inflection point at this moment, making very clear and much more work is still to be done, but much has been accomplished up to this point and that shouldn't be forgotten.

GOLODRYGA: All right, Phil Mattingly, thank you.

BLACKWELL: So, here's the moment that Vladimir Putin announced Russia is pulling back from the New STAR Treaty with the U.S. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to inflict a strategic defeat on us and climb all over our nuclear facilities. So, I'd like to make the announcement today that Russia is suspending its participation in the START treaty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken called the decision unfortunate and irresponsible but stressed that the U.S. is ready to meet with Russia to discuss new START. Now, it is the only treaty left that regulates the world's two nuclear arsenals -- the largest ones, I should say. The U.S. and Russia make up about 90 percent of the world's supply.

And let's talk about limits because it limits the number of deployed long-range warheads the two nations can have at about 1500. It also caps missiles or other delivery platforms at 700. More on the agreement now. The agreement also allowed inspections of the weapons sites but those were suspended in 2020 because of the pandemic. Now, Russia is accused of stalling. Last month, U.S. officials said Russia is not complying with its obligations under the New START Treaty to facilitate inspections and the activities on its territory, Bianna.

[14:05:05]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we should just note that Vladimir Putin has just submitted a draft of this suspension law to the Russian Duma. Of course, it's a joke really. It was just going to be a rubber stamp like everything else in his government. So, let's talk more about this with Jill Dougherty, an expert on Russia. She headed the CNN Moscow Bureau for years and now teaches at Georgetown University. Jill, it's great to see you.

So, this really for the most part was a repetition of previous speeches Putin has given leading up to the invasion and during I thought it was rather stale, I turned it off after about 45 minutes, he was saying the same things, the West is to blame for everything and Russia is trying to only liberate Ukraine. The only new element was the suspension of Russia's participation in the New START nuclear arms control treaty, even though the State Department said that the United States -- that Russia wasn't complying for a while now. What message do you think Putin is sending here to Russians specifically by doing that?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think mainly he's sending the message to the West, which is taking it off the shelf again, what he did at the beginning of the war, which was threatened nuclear weapons. And that is about what he has in his toolbox. I mean, militarily, they're not doing well. We've been over this. So, what does he do? He upped the ante. And even the step, you know, to formally go to the Parliament, etcetera is just -- is just more of that theater.

Now, that said, this is a serious issue. And it does raise issues about whether -- or oppressions whether there could be another arms control agreement. But essentially, Russia already is doing this. It is not allowing inspections. And you know, that's so saying, we formally will not, and we are you know temporarily getting out of it. Doesn't really, I think -- let's say, rise to the occasion of something extremely frightening. But I think that's what Putin wanted to do. To frighten the West, to scare Washington, and it does not seem to be working.

GOLODRYGA: Well, and, Jill, while the West is clear-eyed and seeing what is playing out here that Russia invaded a sovereign democratic country. That is not how Vladimir Putin has portrayed it to his people since the start of the war and since the months prior to the war at that, as well. He continues to paint Russia as the victim here of Western aggression. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PUTIN: (Speaking in a foreign language) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to continue to make sure that the threat to our lands is removed. The elite of the West do not conceal their ambitions, which is to strategically defeat Russia, finish us off once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Jill, one year in. Is this argument still resonating with Russians?

DOUGHERTY: I think to a certain extent, it could be. I think, you know, Putin has repeated that over and over again. The media say this. And you know, Russians just think back a lot of people went through World War Two or are the children or the grandchildren that went through World War Two. World War Two is a seminal part of Putin's message and his inputinism. So, to repeat that and to make people afraid, yes, that probably does have some effect.

But you know, Bianna, I think one of the most significant things was what he said to the Russian people who have lost children in this war, whose sons have come back, unfortunately, in body bags, and he said we're going to help you. We really do feel your pain. We know how bad this is.

And there were there was an entire list of things that they are going to do for the families, including creating a foundation to help them. I think that that is a significant thing that shows that Putin actually could be or feels that he could be under pressure from the Russian people because of what is going on in terms of the people who are done.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, estimates that there are some 200,000 Russian soldiers who have died or have been injured. But a reminder that Russians have a high tolerance for suffering. Just going back to World War Two, some 20 million soldiers died there under Stalin during World War Two fighting there. Jill Dougherty, thank you. As always, great to see you.

BLACKWELL: With us now retired Air Force colonel and CNN military analyst Cedric Leighton, and former ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor. He's now the vice president for Russia and Europe at the U.S. Institute of Peace. Gentlemen, welcome.

Mr. Ambassador, let me start with you and the President, Biden, he pointed out the contrast between the conversations we were having a year ago and what we're talking about today, how soon would Kyiv fall, how soon with -- that column of tanks that never went in or never moved, how soon would they go in, would Germany offer more than helmets, would they offer lethal support? Your thoughts on what we heard from President Biden today in Warsaw?

[14:10:05]

BILL TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Yes, Victor. And you're right. It's a big change from a year ago. The Ukrainian military has defeated the Russian military in Kyiv, as you say, pushing them out of the -- of the capital. They were right -- they were 20 minutes from downtown and so they were -- the Russians got close to the -- to the Ukrainian capital, and the Ukrainians pushed them back. They defeated them and push them out of Kharkiv. They defeated him and pushed him out of Kherson. They -- a major counter- offensive that was very successful.

Now, the question is, after a year, can the Ukrainians get the supplies, get the equipment, and get the weapon,s get the ammunition that they need to break the Russian military? And that's what we're now talking about. We're talking -- now, a year later, we're talking about how the Ukrainians might break the Russian military.

GOLODRYGA: And the question is whether we can procure enough weapons even if there's unanimity in whether to send them at this point. Colonel, to you. For the first time in many decades, there are no active arms control agreements between the United States and Russia. I'm curious, from your perspective, what was your reaction when you heard of that suspension from Vladimir Putin? And are you concerned, perhaps of another arms race between the two countries?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Bianna, I think we have to be very concerned about that prospect. So, not only between Russia and the United States that there might be a nuclear arms race but we also have to think of the possibility of an arms race with China. China is not subject -- has never been subject to any of the arms control regimes like salt or starch or any of the others. So, it's a -- you know, maybe a way for Putin to kind of blend in with the Chinese idea of nuclear proliferation. And it -- we could be seeing a very difficult period ahead from an arms control perspective.

But I also have to say, Bianna that, I'm not surprised that this happened. I think it's pretty clear that Putin was on this path. And as Jill mentioned earlier, it's very clear that the Russians don't want to have anything to do with any arms control regime that might limit their options in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador, I've read again this morning that letter that you signed back in March of last year, calling for -- the U.S. for NATO to create this no-fly zone over the humanitarian corridors, a term that now sounds quaint considering how much Russia has targeted civilians. And you also added this in that letter. This is in addition to the request from Ukrainian leaders for A-10 and MiG-29 aircraft to help Ukrainians defend themselves, which we also strongly support.

That never happened for several reasons. But the request now is for F- 16s. Should those be supplied to the Ukrainians? And if not, should the training start in case the U.S., in case NATO decides six, or eight months down the road to supply the fighter jets?

TAYLOR: Victor, yes. My view -- my view is that we should provide the F-16s to the Ukrainians, probably not for this current battle. The breakthrough that I just described, that the Ukrainians are planning over the next couple of months, that's going to go with what they've got right now. And what they're training on right now. The armor, the artillery, the infantry, that's -- the F-16s will be for a year from now when, after the victory, as the Ukrainians say, after the victory, they will still be worried about another attack from the Russians. So, we need to be sure that the Ukrainians both win in the short term, but also can defend themselves against another attack from the Russians after that victory.

GOLODRYGA: So, these --

TAYLOR: So, yes, provide the F-16s and also start the training now.

GOLODRYGA: So, these asks could be a sort of backfill for later on down the line in this war. Colonel, given what we just talked about a potential nuclear threat that Russia and President Putin once again dangled by suspending the New START Treaty. You have the Ukrainians continuing to ask not only for the F-16s but also for long-range missiles, which until this point, the United States has said we will not be providing for fear of provocation or landing inside of Russian territory -- recognized Russian territory. Do you think this news from Vladimir Putin today on the suspension will impact whatever decision the U.S. may make on this point?

LEIGHTON: I think so, Bianna. I think it's very possible that we might see ATCMS or something similar to the ATACMS showing up in the Ukrainian arsenal. And what that really means is that we have a chance -- the Ukrainians will have a chance to attack at a longer range Russian supply depots, Russian ammo dumps, things like that, that could make it very difficult for the Russians to proceed with any type of offensive operation against a Ukraine.

[14:15::08]

BLACKWELL: Colonel, let me stick with you. And we've discussed over this last year the morale challenges of the Russian forces. The value -- the utility of the disparity between what we saw and heard from President Biden and we saw and heard from President Putin, not only the content but the context, the audience, the energy from what we heard and saw from these two leaders today, what's the value on the battlefield, if any of what we saw today, Colonel?

LEIGHTON: Well, I think it's very interesting you know when you combine in President Biden's case to Kyiv with his speech today in Warsaw, a -- you see a definite energy, a definite willingness to work with people, a definite willingness to, you know, mentioned democratic values. And I think the mentioning of democratic values, the scene at the end, where we met with -- President Biden met with the children, all of that speaks to a much more humane approach to geopolitics. With Putin, you have this cold, antiseptic, very you know stringent approach to everything.

And that is, I think, the clear contrast between the two, Biden, democratic values going in to give peace and freedom by chance, Putin using obfuscation to describe the situation that really doesn't exist, but one that he wants to create it. And I think that really makes a very big difference.

And that contrast does have an impact directly on the front lines and makes the Ukrainians much more willing to stand and fight. Not that they aren't already, they're doing a magnificent job in many cases. But this even solidifies that and coupling what Biden has said with what President Zelenskyy has said. I think that makes a very big impact for the Ukrainian forces.

GOLODRYGA: Now, the venue showed a sharp contrast too.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: That sort of solemn faces among the Russian officials who are listening to Vladimir Putin go through his greatest hits, and obviously a different more enthusiastic crowd there in Warsaw listening to President Biden.

All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton and Ambassador William Taylor, thank you.

BLACKWELL: The EPA Administrator returns to East Palestine, Ohio, the site of that toxic train derailment to meet with families and drink water straight from the tap. Our Miguel Marquez just spoke with the EPA chief. We'll hear what he had to say about the situation.

GOLODRYGA: And in a highly unusual move, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has granted Tucker Carlson access to all of the Capitol security footage from the insurrection. We'll have a reaction from a former member of the January 6 committee straight ahead.

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[14:21:39]

BLACKWELL: EPA Chief Michael Regan visited East Palestine, Ohio today. This is the second time. This is an attempt to reassure some anxious families there about the federal response to that toxic train derailment. He then teamed up with Ohio's governor to tour a health clinic that open today to address some medical concerns.

GOLODRYGA: They also visited homes to conduct air quality tests and drink the tap water. CNN's senior national correspondent Miguel Marquez is an East Palestine. So, Miguel, the EPA chief, you just spoke to him. What did he tell you?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, both he and the two governors from both Ohio and Pennsylvania, which is right next door to this area just blasted Norfolk Southern saying that the railroad has failed on every level to become clean, to report this from the very beginning, and to be helpful in trying to get this thing taken care of and cleaned up. Today's trip was about these officials assuring people here in East Palestine that the water, that the air, it's safe to drink, it's safe to breathe, not only today but in a week and a month and years ahead. Here's what the administrator of EPA said about what Norfolk Southern needs to do immediately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL REGAN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: I expect within the next 48 hours, Norfolk Southern will begin working with the agency on the contents of the work plan. Now, they have to put together a work plan that's going to be very prescriptive in terms of all of the cleanup, how they will do it, and the radius of that cleanup. They also have to explain to us you know how they'll pay for it, and how they will be transparent in terms of engaging the community. So, they have a little bit of time to begin this process, but we expect to hear from them very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: And he also now says that the -- his administration in the EPA has the power to compel Norfolk Southern to get this work done and to pay for it. There is an NTSB investigation going into this as well. The governor of Pennsylvania says that he's already referred a criminal case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO, (D-PA): In the face of Norfolk Southern's arrogance and incompetence, I want you to know we are fighting back. We stand with the good people of Pennsylvania and Ohio. And we stand with them against this corporate greed and incompetence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So, the governor of Pennsylvania and others saying that Norfolk Southern has provided them either bad data, bad information all the way along, they haven't been open and transparent about coming to meetings, all of those things. The EPA Administrator ordering that Norfolk Southern dude today this is -- this is all to tell people in this area that they are doing everything possible, not just today saying that they will stay here for the weeks, months, and years to come to make sure that the water and air is good. Back to you, guys.

BLACKWELL: Yes, they still have a lot of people in that community to convince. Miguel Marquez for us in East Palestine, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, stocks are down sharply today after mega-retailers including Walmart and Home Depot reported disappointing earnings, raising new concerns over the strength of the U.S. consumer.

[14:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Sources tell CNN that House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has given Fox News host Tucker Carlson access to all the security footage from the January 6 Capitol riot.

BLACKWELL: This is highly unusual when it has Democrats concerned about possible security risks. CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now. Is it clear why -- has the Speaker's office said at all why McCarthy is doing this?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Victor, you're right. It is a very unusual decision that Kevin McCarthy has made. Sources have told me that McCarthy did not consult members of Republican leadership before turning this footage over nor did he consult House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries before giving these materials to Fox News.