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Georgia Special Grand Jury Foreperson Speaks Out; President Biden Meets With Leaders of NATO; Winter Storm. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 22, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: To make clear they do not want to touch those programs in the current negotiations over the debt ceiling, that after President Biden accused the Republicans of wanting to gut both programs in his State of the Union speech.

Democrat Jennifer McClellan will become Virginia's first black congresswoman. She defeated Republican Leon Benjamin in a special election for the state's Fourth Congressional District. McClellan now will succeed the late Democratic Congressman Donald McEachin. He died back in November.

Appreciate your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you tomorrow.

Abby Phillip picks up our coverage right now.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Abby Phillip in Washington. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.

Right now, more than two dozen states and 65 million people are on alert, as a powerful winter storm hits coast to coast. Brutal conditions are slamming Flagstaff, Arizona, just a short time ago. And this man was barely able to stand as the wind gusts whipped the blinding snow around him.

And, in 29 states, they're in the path right now for the storm, the snow warnings right now stretching to Southern California, flakes even possible on Los Angeles beaches. And, in Utah, miles and miles of dicey driving. You can see cars stranded as crews work to clear the roads. And, in Minnesota, the National Weather Service is warning of historic snow, possibly the most in decades.

Meteorologist Jennifer Gray is standing by for us.

But, first, CNN's Adrienne Broaddus us is in Bloomington, Minnesota.

Adrienne, what's happening where you are there? I see some really icy streets behind you.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Abby, there's a break right now when it comes to snowfall. The plows have been moving along this stretch of highway behind us, but we saw the first phase of this storm here in Minnesota yesterday into this morning.

We saw moderate to -- light to moderate snowfall. And so, right now, there's a break, but the snow, the significant portions of the snowfall will pick up later this afternoon, into tonight, into tomorrow. Here's what we can tell you.

The governor here, Governor Walz, has issued some executive orders. For example, he's already mobilized the Minnesota National Guard. So, if there is someone who is stranded, if they need help, those Guard members can get to those folks to help them.

The wind, I got to talk about that right now. You see I'm struggling to talk. It has picked up, in my opinion, significantly since this morning. And this wind is only going to get worse. That's what is causing those blizzard warnings in some part of the state. So you're going to have strong wind gusts, up to 30 to 45 miles per hour, along with the snow that's falling.

The big message to folks in and around Minnesota is to stay home. If you don't have to be out on the streets, stay put. Some schools have been canceled. Some students are having e-learning. And something also to point out is somewhat local, but, for the (AUDIO GAP) in the Twin Cities, the governor of Minneapolis -- not the governor -- the mayor of Minneapolis, Mayor Jacob Frey, as well as the mayor of St. Paul, have opened up parking spaces for those residents -- Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes, Adrienne, I'm told it's about 19 degrees where you are, but it's that windchill that really gets into your bones.

I'm going to let you go and warm up, hopefully.

Let's get straight over to Jennifer Gray right now, who is about -- who's in the Weather Center.

Jennifer, who is about to get the worst of this storm and when?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, she's definitely in the bullseye for this.

Pretty much right where that word blizzard is, is where we're going to see the toughest conditions, so over from South Dakota over to portions of Minnesota. Also, this icing is going to be a huge concern moving forward, because that can make roads definitely impossible to drive on. But look at this map. We have warnings of all types.

We have blizzard warnings, winter storm warnings. We have high wind warnings where, across the Southwest, we could see winds gusting 60, 70 miles per hour, also wind advisories across the South and winter weather advisories across the Northeast. So, this storm is stretching from coast to coast.

I think the highest impacts are going to be, as mentioned, across South Dakota, through Minneapolis. We will see heavy snowfall and high winds. That's why those blizzard warnings are in effect. You will see blinding conditions across those areas, significant ice accumulation, hazardous travel, as mentioned, also possible power outages. And then look across California, the Sierra definitely see huge impacts from this. So, you can see the snow is, of course, in progress. It's going to pick up as we go throughout the afternoon hours into the overnight significantly. You can see the pink. That's icing that's currently going on. This is a live radar, and then snow falling, as mentioned.

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So, here are the preliminary snowfall totals. We have already seen 32 inches of snow across Montana, 27 across portions of Wyoming. More snow is to come, as mentioned. So here's the radar in progress, very heavy snow throughout the late evening hours. This is all the way through 5:00 a.m. tomorrow. Minneapolis is going to be in the mix.

And then we start to see the snow push into portions of Northern New England. This really will be wrapping up by the time we get into the first half of tomorrow. By lunchtime, we will see significant improvements in the forecast. But this is a forecast, ice accumulation, and this cannot be ignored, because we see major problems when you talk about ice, especially once we get into half-an- inch, three-quarters of an inch of ice.

We will see impossible travel. We could possibly see power outages as well, trees coming down, of course as well. So here's the snowfall total, additional snow to come. Could see an additional eight to 12 inches across Minneapolis, Abby. So this is far from over, this powerful winter storm.

PHILLIP: Yes, and always good to remind folks stay off the roads when there's ice out there. That will do everyone a lot of good.

Our thanks to Adrienne Broaddus and to you, Jennifer, for that report.

And President Biden is now on his way home after he rallied support for Ukraine nearly a year to the day after Russia's invasion. Biden began his overseas trip with a surprise visit to Kyiv and ended it by meeting with the leaders of NATO's eastern flank known as the Bucharest Nine. These are the countries that are on Russia's doorstep, and they fear that they could be next if Vladimir Putin wins and Ukraine.

Also new today, Putin met with a top Chinese diplomat in Moscow, as China denies reports that it may provide lethal aid to Russian troops in Ukraine. We will go to Moscow in a moment.

But, first, let's start with CNN's Phil Mattingly, who is in Warsaw, where the president just left.

Phil, just does White House feel like this was really a mission accomplished for the purposes of this trip, keeping allies together and sending that signal to Vladimir Putin?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Abby, for the better part of the last several months, several administration officials have talked about just how important they saw the one-year mark as being a critical moment for the president to deliver at least some type of remarks that really underscored his view of the inflection point he saw, not just Ukraine and the war, and -- but really the entire Western Democratic alliance, but also really draw attention about the path ahead, which is certainly going to be grueling.

As they talked about kind of the broad outlines of what they wanted, I don't think they could have imagined it would have gone as well as the last three days did. And I say that because there was never a certainty that the president would be able to pull off the trip to Kyiv.

Instead, he was standing shoulder to shoulder with Volodymyr Zelenskyy one year after most people didn't think he was going to be in office anymore, that Kyiv would be in Ukraine hands, a day later was able to, as the kind of a collective attention of the world was drawn to that moment, stayed on him as he delivered those remarks about the stakes, making it clear that this was not just about one conflict inside Europe.

This was much bigger than that. And I think today was also a really critical moment, sitting down, meeting behind closed doors for more than an hour with these Bucharest Nine countries, the eastern flank countries for NATO. So much of what these three days have been have been dramatic, symbolic, really trying to kind of lay down the marker for what's next.

But, Abby, this was a meeting -- and so have several others over the course of these 72 hours -- behind the scenes about substantive issues about what will be needed going forward. And that is real, and that is complex, and that is very difficult. And administration officials acknowledged those challenges. These meetings were critical to lay the groundwork for the steps ahead in the next couple of months.

I think, more than anything else, they're happy with the moments that they had. But those meetings themselves and what they produce in the weeks and months ahead will perhaps be the best test of the success of this trip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will defend literally every inch of NATO, every inch of NATO.

And it's -- this is an important moment. I look forward to the discussion on the next steps we can take together and to keep our alliance strong and to further deter aggression, because what literally is at stake is not just Ukraine. It's freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Abby, really kind of a final effort to make that point, that this isn't just about Ukraine or Russia or the United States. It's much bigger than that.

It's a message he wanted to get across all week, certainly one he leaves delivering one last time -- Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes, I think, if anything, this war in Ukraine has really illustrated how tangible the threat of Russia is to those countries.

Phil Mattingly, thank you for all your reporting over these last few days.

And now let's get on to Moscow, where CNN's Fred Pleitgen is.

Fed, so President Putin met with China's top diplomat at the Kremlin. What was the point of that meeting at this juncture in the war in Ukraine?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Abby.

Well, I think it underscores once again just how important China is for Russia, especially, of course, with all the sanctions that Russia is now under from the United States, but also from European countries as well. Obviously, China has become both politically and economically more important over the course of the past year.

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And, of course, now the U.S. believes that China could also become militarily more important for Russia, as well as the U.S. saying that they have concerns that the Chinese might be at least thinking about giving weapons aid, giving military aid, lethal aid to the Russians for use in Ukraine possibly.

Now, of course, the Chinese, they haven't necessarily denied that, but they have kind of dismissed it. And one of the interesting things that we heard from Wang Yi today, China's top diplomat, when he met with Vladimir Putin is, he once again underscored how good the relations are between Moscow and Beijing.

And these are relations, obviously, that have been built up for a very long time. But then he also said that third parties are not to interfere in those relations. And that was widely seen as a possible swipe at the Biden administration, after the Biden administration had voiced those concerns.

Now, for Vladimir Putin, of course, this meeting was extremely important as well. And I think that's just shown by the fact that the head of state of the Russian Federation met with the top diplomat of China, obviously, Putin going to great lengths to show the respect that he has for China, Putin also saying that Russia in the not-too- distant future is going to welcome Xi Jinping here as well.

Putin and Xi also longtime friends, and that relationship has also been building up for a very long time as well. And then you see it all the time here on the ground in Russia, if you look at the situation, where Russian oil and gas is now going, a lot of that redirected to China now, but just the amount of Chinese products that you see here in Russia, Chinese cars on the road, just once again underscores how important those relations are, Abby. PHILLIP: Yes, very much so. It's one will be certainly watching in

the coming months and, certainly, I think years.

Fred Pleitgen, thank you for that.

And let's continue this conversation.

Joining us now is Steve Hall. He's a CNN national security analyst and former CIA chief of Russia operations.

Steve, thanks for being here, as always.

I want to start with what Vladimir Putin said after this meeting with the Russian -- the Chinese foreign minister. He said, Russia and China relations are -- quote -- "reaching new milestones."

Do you have any sense of what he means by that?

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean, China's in a really difficult position.

They're walking on sort of a tightrope. On the one hand, they want to be supportive of Russia. And there's a couple of reasons for that. It's economics. There's some ideology there as well. But, really, China understands that, over the long run -- and the Chinese really do look at this in the long run -- they need to preserve at least their economic relationships with the rest of the world if they want to reach that aspirational goal that they have been the world's number one superpower.

So they can't just unilaterally side completely and absolutely with Russia and not expect there to be significant impact that's going to negatively result in that goal that I was just referring to, where they want to sort of become a major superpower.

So they're walking this fine line. It's a very complex relationship between those two countries. So it's fascinating to watch how they try to work it out.

PHILLIP: Yes, and, I mean, China is already at a moment of real tensions with the United States, in particular.

And the U.S. is warning the Chinese, do not provide lethal aid to Russia. The U.N. ambassador called that a red line. How do you think Beijing navigates that? Would they take the risk to try to help Russia in this war?

HALL: I think it's an ongoing calculation on their part.

I mean, again, they would they would like to see Russia succeed against Ukraine, but they also understand that there's pretty much the entirety of certainly of NATO and the West which is supporting the Ukrainians. So, I -- it's difficult for me to imagine a circumstance where China would decide on a large-scale basis to throw significant military assistance to the Russians. First of all, it would be noticed and immediately condemned, and they would be probably impacted. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the new sanctions that we're anticipating coming out of Western governments directly addresses that question. So the Chinese have to be really careful, again, about compromising their longer-term goals with short- term answers to Russia's request for assistance.

PHILLIP: And, meanwhile, CNN is reporting that Russia tested an ICBM missile just in the last few days, and it failed.

And at this moment in the conflict in Ukraine, I mean, what does that tell you about Putin's ability, just from a practical perspective, to expand the war or to make good on any threats right now?

HALL: Yes, there's sort of two sides to that, Abby.

I think the first is -- the first is sort of just the public messaging, the propaganda piece, that the Russians are very good at. So whenever things get really tough, we have seen over the past year of Vladimir Putin and his mouthpieces there in Russia will say -- they will rattle the nuclear saber, because they know that we're concerned about that, as we should be.

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I mean, any (AUDIO GAP) nuclear weapons, it's a serious issue. But, by the same token, I think everybody now, a year after the Russians tried to invade militarily Ukraine and succeed very quickly, they failed to do that largely because of military leadership and aging technology, that they couldn't continue to support their own troops.

So, the same questions, I think, now have to extend towards their strategic nuclear capability, although you can never write it off, right, because it really only takes one missile to do some significant damage, so, again, complicated situation.

PHILLIP: Yes. And therein lies the problem for the rest of the world. They only have to do it once in order to be a significant problem.

Steve Hall, thank you for all of that analysis.

And coming up next for us: Iranian protesters say that they were tortured, drugged and raped at secret sites, and we have exclusive reporting about the secret network the regime is using.

And the big name could be on the list. What a foreperson for the grand jury that investigated Donald Trump just suggested about the prospect of indictments. We have a legal expert standing by.

Plus, Alex Murdaugh, former law partner -- his former law partner is on the witness stand. What he just revealed about the night of the murders.

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[13:20:35] PHILLIP: For prosecutors investigating Donald Trump and his allies over their alleged scheme to overturn Georgia's 2020 election results, the question isn't if they will pursue indictments. It is how many.

CNN has learned that Fulton County investigators are still debating the scope of that criminal case and how many indictments to seek.

The foreperson for the special grand jury in the probe confirmed to CNN that they recommended multiple indictments, and she teased about where Trump fits into all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY KOHRS, GEORGIA SPECIAL GRAND JURY FOREWOMAN: A process where we heard his name a lot. We definitely heard a lot about former President Trump, and we definitely discussed him a lot in the room.

And I will say that, when this list comes out, you wouldn't -- there are no major plot twists waiting for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Let's discuss all of this with former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

Renato, thanks for joining us.

It's been about two months since that grand jury wrapped up. Even though we just saw kind of excerpts from their report, the district attorney has had it for some time. So when you hear that they're still debating whether to keep the indictments narrow or more broad, what does that indicate to you about what they're weighing here?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think -- Abby, I think that they're actually pursuing this in a very careful manner.

And I think that's exactly what I would be doing in their shoes, because this is a first-of-its-kind indictment of a former president of the United States. There's going to be a lot of attention. There's going to be a lot of litigation over the course of many months. So they're smart to, I think, make sure that they're bringing the right charges on the front end.

And so what I think they're debating is whether or not to bring, for example, the strongest, most narrow charges, things like interference in an election, or potentially forgery, or some very narrow charges, vs. something very sweeping, like a RICO enterprise, where they're suggesting that this was some sort of organized crime racketeering scheme, very, very broad, more difficult to prove, more sweeping and so forth.

So I think that's the sort of thing they're debating. They're also, I think, weighing, for example, do they want to bring charges against more individuals or just pick the individuals for whom they have the strongest charges? And so I think that's a healthy debate. It's often the case in a prosecutor's office, and that's what's going on right now.

PHILLIP: Yes.

And that grand jury foreperson, Emily Kohrs, she hinted that there could be about a dozen people. I mean, she basically said there were a lot of people listed who could be indicted. And a regular grand jury would have to be seated for that.

So what do you think is a realistic timeline for, given how careful you think they ought to be, what this process could take?

MARIOTTI: That's a great question.

I think March is likely, given that the district attorney said that indictments would be coming and they'd be imminent, there'd be imminent indictments in this case. So, I think that's what I would perceive as likely here.

There still has to be evidence that's put into the new grand jury. Often, that's done by reading the transcripts from the special grand jury into the new grand jury, so putting that evidence before the grand jury that's going to be considering indictments. But, obviously, there are still some decisions to be made. So delay is always possible.

And I think the foreperson's comments only add more complexity and put more of a burden on the prosecutors, because it's another distraction that they have to consider.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, just to that point, I mean, former President Trump on TRUTH Social just today already attacking her in some ways for coming out and speaking.

Does it meaningfully complicate what prosecutors are going to be able to do and -- or -- and does it perhaps offer a boon to the defense attorneys for some of these people who might face indictment?

MARIOTTI: I think there's no question that it's a boon to defense attorneys. It gives them a hook, it gives them an argument, a story to bring up that they didn't otherwise.

I see people, Abby, I have seen people online kind of looking through lawbooks and say, well, technically this is probably not going to be sufficient to quash an indictment. And that's true. But it provides a narrative, I think a narrative that a clever defense attorney can introduce at a trial, for example, via a closing argument or cross- examination.

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But, also, I think it'd be a narrative in the media. I mean, for example, Lisa Page and Peter Strzok had a lot of text messages in the course of the Russia investigation that really were not relevant, ultimately, to the work of Robert Mueller, but they generated a lot of distraction and were brought up by President Trump and his allies quite a bit. And I expect this foreperson's comments will be brought up quite a bit

as well.

PHILLIP: Yes, what an unusual situation to have someone in that role come out so publicly, and do all of these interviews.

Renato Mariotti, thank you so much for all of that insight.

And, in just a few minutes, House Democrats are going to hear from the former chair of the January 6 Committee, Bennie Thompson. And the topic are these -- potential national security fallout from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy handing over thousands of hours of security footage from the Capitol on January 6 to FOX's Tucker Carlson.

It was a move that caught many lawmakers off guard, as well as the Capitol Police chief. And we will soon have a readout from that meeting. We will bring you all of the details.

And, next, you have seen the massive protests in Iran, but what happens to the people who take part? A months-long CNN investigation has uncovered a network of secret black sites in the country. And what happens there is stuff of nightmares. There will be reporting that you will only see here on CNN when we come back.

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