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Biden Meets With Leaders Of NATO's Eastern Flank; Putin Meets With Top Chinese Diplomat In Moscow; 65-Plus Million Under Winter Alerts Coast To Coast. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 22, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell.

President Biden is en route back to Washington right now after a historic 72-hour trip to Ukraine and Poland. This morning, the president met with the leaders of the Bucharest Nine in Warsaw, Poland. That's the group of NATO countries closest to Russia's borders. Now, Biden praised the leaders for their continued support of Ukraine ahead of the one-year anniversary of Russia's invasion.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As NATO's eastern flank, you're the frontlines of our collective defense. And you're no better than anyone in what's at stake in this conflict. Not just for Ukraine, but for the freedom democracies throughout Europe and around the world.

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GOLODRYGA: CNN's chief White House correspondent Phil Mattingly is in Warsaw. So, Phil, what was the outcome of President Biden's meeting there with the Warsaw Nine -- I'm sorry the Bucharest nine?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Bianna, this -- Bucharest Nine. This was a 72-hour period full of clear symbolism and dramatic moments. This meeting was also critically important. It wasn't something that was going to draw massive headlines but the president's reassurance commitment and pledge to NATO's easternmost coalition members was a critical one, particularly in person. And it was also a very substantive, untold meeting behind the scenes, one that is increasingly critical given just how uneasy these nine nations have been over the course of the last year.

Keep in mind, this group of nine nations came together in this alliance inside of the NATO coalition in 2015 as a result of the Russian aggression toward Ukraine that led to the illegal annexation of Crimea. And the president made very clear both to the leaders in attendance but also broadly about the stakes of the moment. Take a listen.

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BIDEN: We will defend literally every inch of NATO -- every inch of NATO. And is this an important moment? I look forward to the discussion of the next steps we can take together to keep our alliance strong and to further deter aggression. It literally the stake is not just Ukraine, its freedom.

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MATTINGLY: Because obviously, the heart of the NATO alliance is Article Five, the idea that an attack on any one member would be an attack on all. That's what the president is making clear the U.S. stands very firmly and steadfastly behind. But his allusion to the fact that there was a significant number of issues to discuss about the path forward, a very uncertain path, certainly an arduous path as you look at a war that shows -- it was no signs of ending or decelerating anytime soon.

These countries are critical not just for their assistance on both defense and humanitarian aid over the course of the last 11 -- almost 12 months at this point, but also because they serve as frontline defense for not just NATO but also places where American and NATO troops are, weapons systems as well and have asked for more of both. And what the result is of these discussions going forward and how this lays the groundwork for what's next. Certainly, a critical element of a trip that had no shortage of them, guys.

BLACKWELL: Phil Mattingly for us there in Warsaw. Thank you, Phil.

GOLODRYGA: Well, while President Biden was wrapping up his trip in Poland, Russian President Vladimir Putin was meeting with China's top diplomat. At that meeting, Putin says the international relations were "complex," but that the relationship between Moscow and Beijing is reaching a "new milestone."

BLACKWELL: CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow. Fred, what does this say about China's potential role in supporting Russia and Ukraine?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's certainly a sense that the Russians believe that that role could be very big. And generally, I think the fact that Vladimir Putin, the head of state of the Russian Federation, met with a top diplomat of China here and made time for China's top diplomat Wang Yi, definitely shows how important China is to Russia and how important Russia fields the relations with China are.

And you're absolutely right, Vladimir Putin there saying he believes that the relations between the two countries could reach new milestones. He also said that very soon, he's going to be welcoming Xi Jinping, the president of China here to Russia as well. We know that Xi and Putin have had very good relations over the years and describe each other as very good friends. And certainly, the Russians really banking on China economically and, of course, the U.S. believes maybe militarily as well.

[14:05:00]

And that seems to be something that also came up in that meeting between Vladimir Putin and Wang Yi today as well. There was an interesting statement by China's top diplomat where he also said that the relations between Russia and China were exceptional. And then he also said that they were not directed against third countries and certainly shouldn't be infringed on by third countries.

You know, there are a lot of people who believe that that could be a swipe at the Biden administration, of course, which voiced those concerns that China might be at least thinking about providing lethal aid to Russia. And in any case, certainly, the Russians banking on their relations with China, especially with all the sanctions that have been levied on Russia by the U.S., by the European countries as well.

So, this is definitely something where the Russians understand how important these relations are and understand they are going to becoming a lot more important, it seems in the not-too-distant future, guys.

GOLODRYGA: And, Fred, Putin also made an appearance at a concert in Moscow today. Tell us about that.

PLEITGEN: Yes, he certainly did. I mean, this was a big concert where the Russians said that there could be up to 200,000 people there. It's unclear how big the crowd actually was. It was in Luzhniki Stadium, the sort of main stadium here in central Moscow. And it was really one where Vladimir Putin was trying to rally the nation behind what he called them to -- and the Russian leadership called the special military operation.

And you know, one of the interesting things that he was saying, he was saying that he believes right now there's a big battle going on, on Russian lands, as he put it for Russian people. So, obviously, the Russian leadership and Vladimir Putin himself already saying that he believes that the places where Russia is fighting now are actually Russian territory. Obviously, under international law, it's a whole different thing. And the U.S. certainly says it's a whole different thing and all this is Ukrainian territory.

But this was a big event. This was a huge event. It was definitely a big event, and an important event for Vladimir Putin, who obviously understands that he has to keep Russians behind the special military operation because, of course, as we've been reporting over the last couple of weeks, really the last couple of months, the going has been pretty tough for the Russian military on the battlefield. And that's certainly something that's not lost and a lot of people here in Russia as well.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, that stadium, the site of the World Cup in 2018. Fred Pleitgen, thank you.

PLEITGEN: OK. GOLODRYGA: Well, let's discuss with historian and analyst of Russian war propaganda, Ian Garner. He's also the author of Z Generation: Into The Heart Of Russia's Fascist Youth. Ian, great to have you on this program. So, you know, we are constantly asking why Russians either continue to publicly support or at least except to this war one-year into it and clearly, repression works. But there's also propaganda at play here like this that we saw at the stadium today.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, you're safe now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yuri, these are the children you saved. Do you remember Anya Nomonka (PH)? She is here now. And she wants to say important words to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good girl. Don't be shy. We're here.

ANYA NOMONKA, ONE OF THE CHILDREN SAVED BY RUSSIANS: (Speaking in a foreign language)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Uncle Yuri, for saving me, my sister, and hundreds of thousands of children in Mariupol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Now, Ian, we should note Russia is accused not only by Ukraine but by the West of kidnapping thousands of Ukrainian children. And we covered this in detail last year in the battle in Mariupol there. Give us a sense, though, of images like this and propaganda like this. Is it still effective one year into the war with Russians?

IAN GARNER, HISTORIAN: This particular little set piece that came in the middle of this concert really sums up the most effective propaganda narrative that the Russian state has. A narrative that is working and I expect will continue to work. And that is we see a video clip of terror and fear presented as Russian troops bravely battling against monstrous Ukrainians. And then we see what are presented as Russian children, of course, Ukrainian children who are being saved and are grateful to be saved.

The narrative is that Russia is fighting against a West, who is monstrous, potentially satanic, even pedophiles. And Putin mentioned that in his speech yesterday. We will do anything to children. Thank God for Russia. Thank God for Russia that saves these children.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, that really was a gut punch when I watched that video this morning, so I'm glad we addressed it now. Another thing that I've been really thinking about, Ian, is over the past year, even leading up to the war, you saw multiple attempts by President Zelenskyy to speak directly to the Russian people, bypassing propaganda and state media.

He speaks perfect Russian. That was his native language. And he would talk to the Russian mothers about how unjust this war was. We heard President Biden do the same thing yesterday in Warsaw directly speaking to the Russian people. Is it breaking through at all? I mean, are they even hearing about these messages?

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GARNER: Certainly, they will see the messages. But the state's propaganda apparatus in Russia is so all-consuming that those messages are completely twisted and re-framed. The state has spent the best part of 20 years and is doing this increasingly, persuading Russians that Putin and the regime and its propagandists are looking out for Russians and that everything on the outside is something to be suspicious of, something that is out to get children and out to destroy the very idea of Russia itself. So, that means Ukrainians, it means you Ukraine -- Americans, it means the West, it means days, it means liberals and Democrats, all of these things are kind of synonymously evil.

GOLODRYGA: So, that's the West that's being perceived as evil at this point. We saw that meeting today between President Putin and the Chinese foreign minister, the two authoritarian countries that really learn from each other and symbiotic in terms of censorship and propaganda. Given that Russia not necessarily in the Russian public was aligned with the West, but at least they got to benefit from some of its lifestyles over the past two decades or so if not longer, are Russians prepared for that to be completely cut off, and now see an alignment with China?

GARNER: So, certainly, the embrace of China will probably go down very well, the idea of diminishing American power even for those moderate Russians who don't really buy these narratives that the West is all- consuming evil. But really the question for me long term is about living standards --

GOLODRYGA: Right.

GARNER: -- the loss of access to lifestyle to Western gadgets, and goodies.

GOLODRYGA: All right, Ian Garner, thank you so much. Great to have your perspective. We appreciate it.

BLACKWELL: Let's continue the conversation now with retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons. Major, good to see you again. Let's talk about this failed intercontinental ballistic missile test that we learned that Russia attempted on Monday about the time the president was there in Ukraine. How much should we deduce from a failed test, especially in the context of Russia suspending its participation in the New START Treaty?

MIKE LYONS, RETIRED MAJOR, U.S. ARMY: Well, it does show that they have ineffective weapons that have been stored for a long period of time. We see this in the current weapons systems that they brought to the battlefield already. They need winds and they would have liked to have had this to be some kind of victory for them to show that they can still do this. And it does question as to what the rest of this fleet looks like of these missiles that have been in storage for tens of decades and have likely not been maintained.

So, it's not something they wanted to do. They had to tell us because of the previous START treaty that they're in. And it's not good news, that they're not going to participate in the next one, that's that strategic talks limitations. You know, we've always been able to separate the two between our you know diplomats and what's going on when it comes to arms control. And this is not good news for the world the fact that Russia is not going to be on the next START Treaty.

GOLODRYGA: Russia, we should note, hasn't been complying for months now at least. And the inspections haven't been taking place for multiple reasons, including COVID.

Let me pick up on the China threat here because if China does, in fact, decide to provide Russia with lethal aid, what form would that come in? What type of aid would they provide? What it -- would it be drones? Would it be missiles?

LYONS: I think initially, it would be ammunition, drones, and small arms, similar to what the United States is doing in Ukraine with the kind of the quick-hit packages that we've been able to send them. But the Chinese have always had strategic patience. And I think they're going to still hold their cards very close to their chest because deep down, they want to weaken Russia as much as we do.

A weakened Russia from their perspective, you know, kind of puts them out of the game. So, I -- you know, they are -- you know, they don't always play their cards out there. I do believe that the -- you won't see this necessarily coming. I think that they're going to wait this out and see how Russia is doing on the battlefield first.

Because China does not want to be aligned with a loser. And if Russia, you know, continues to go this way, they're going to have to stop and negotiate. At some point, they're going to look like they're losing. And I think that's going to not bode well with China.

BLACKWELL: Yes. As we've discussed, China often focuses on the long game primarily before jumping in especially in conflicts like this. Let me ask you about coming up on this one-year mark of the invasion -- of this war. We've seen that there have been missile attacks, there have been bombardments leading up to the 23rd and 24th, what do you expect we will see over the next 72 hours?

LYONS: I think Russia will continue more or less the strategic attacks. There's a stalemate that's on the battlefield right now in those front lines on the east and in the south. There was reports this morning of Ukraine attacks that were deep into Russia.

[14:15:05]

When you have a stalemate situation in history the way one side wins or the other, they start affecting the other side's ability to wage war. Ukraine really doesn't have that unless those other strategic weapons come from the West, the F-16s, the ATCMS, and the like, that will allow them to attack ammunition depots inside of Russia. And so, they don't have that capability. Russia still can go on some kind of offense with the kind of people they can show up at the battlefield.

If you put Ukraine on the offensive, they've got to be very selective as to where they want to decide to focus. Economy of force will be very important for them if they do that, especially in the south. I think they must threaten Russian troops in the south, get some kind of mass defection, get some kind of mass surrender, in order to get Russia to the bargaining table. That's the important role here now. Let's get this war stopped as soon as possible.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, you're talking about the south there, in Zaporizhzhia. Does Ukraine benefit in terms of a potential spring counter-offensive if the Russian offensive, which many now say has been underway for the past few weeks is underwhelming and continues to be so?

LYONS: I just don't see how the numbers support Ukraine to go on a successful counter-offensive. They would have to come up with 100,000 or so soldiers given the fact that the Russians could decide to dig in and then -- and then they could reverse this situation that's happening right now where the Russians are going into that meat grinder as they talk about. I don't want to see that happen to the Ukraine soldiers. I don't think the Ukraine generals want that to happen to their young men.

So, I think they're going to be very selective and can pick and choose those places where they go on the offensive. And if they take little bits back at a time, they'll be successful. I don't see a wide-scale offensive. The front is just too long. They've got to be very strategic where what spot they pick and then have victory in those locations.

GOLODRYGA: All right, Major Mike Lyons, thank you.

And tomorrow, a "CNN GLOBAL TOWN HALL" event you don't want to miss. Fareed Zakaria will be hosting a live audience and key Biden administration officials as well. CNN Town Hall: Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine One Year Later airs tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

BLACKWELL: The foreperson of the Georgia grand jury that investigated Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election tells CNN multiple indictments had been recommended. She says it is not a short list. Hear from her yourself.

GOLODRYGA: And heavy snow, ice, and extreme cold are wreaking havoc on the road and in the air. States like Minnesota are preparing for more than 20 inches of snow today alone. We'll take you there.

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GOLODRYGA: Well, right now, a powerful winter storm is hammering parts of the U.S. with heavy snow, ice, and extreme cold. More than 65 million Americans are on alert across dozens of states. And blizzard warning stretch from Wyoming to Minnesota. The severe weather is hindering travel with more than a thousand flights already canceled today. And scenes like this one in South Dakota are playing out across the country. The near-whiteout conditions reducing visibility to almost nothing.

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BLACKWELL: This man can barely stand up. Do you hear that? That's the wind in Flagstaff, Arizona. But let's go to the upper Midwest because that's the area that's expecting to bear the brunt of the storm. Minneapolis could get the most snow it's seen in 30 years.

CNN's Adrienne Broadus is live outside Minneapolis. It looks like it's just a light flurry right now. I know that's not going to last long because there's a declared snow emergency. What are you seeing?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Victor. Looks can be deceiving. This wind is whipping. Right now, it's at my back, so it's somewhat helping me with this live report. But that snow emergency you're talking about, for those who aren't familiar, it simply means certain parking rules will go into effect in Minneapolis for two reasons.

One, so those drivers working those snow plows can remove the snow off the road so people can get around when it's safe. And it's also a way for those first responders to get to people who might need their help the most.

Meanwhile, it's somewhat calm right now. The heavy snowfall has stopped but it's expected to pick up later into the afternoon. And we've heard from some first responders who are saying if you do not have to be out on the roads, please stay home. They are already expecting delayed response times.

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RYAN MAYFIELD, HENNEPIN HEALTHCARE EMS ASSISTANT CHIEF: Definitely, the weather can impact our response. It might make it slightly slower for us to get to people when needed. But we triage all our calls and get to the most important ones first, the ones that are most sick or most injured.

DR. JOEY DUREN, ALLINA HEALTH CHIEF MEDICAL DIRECTOR: We will get to you as quickly as we can and as safely as we can. But if you don't need us, we'd appreciate, you know, saving us for somebody who really, really does especially during these hard times of getting around.

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BROADDUS: So, please keep that in mind. Meanwhile, the National Weather Service saying later tonight into tomorrow, it will likely be impossible to travel. The wind is expected to gusts up to 45 miles per hour creating though that blizzard warning in some parts of the state because you're going to have the strong wind and the snow falling at the same time. That doesn't equal a good mixture. Victor, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, people need to heed those warnings. Adrienne Broaddus, thank you. By the way, your narration was much better than mine.

BLACKWELL: Of what?

GOLODRYGA: You just described the man --

BLACKWELL: The man that can barely stand up?

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: I mean, that's the point. You can't really walk out here. All right. Moving on.

Alex Murdaugh -- his former law partner who was on the scene the night of the killings, takes the stands in this double murder trial. You're going to hear some of his testimony ahead.

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BLACKWELL: The foreperson of the Georgia grand jury that investigated former President Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election is dropping some broad hints about the panel's recommendations.

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EMILY KOHRS, FOREPERSON, GEORGIA SPECIAL GRAND JURY: It's not a short list. I will say that when this list comes out, you wouldn't -- there are no major plot twists waiting for you. Especially if they've been following the investigation, I can't see it being a shocker.

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GOLODRYGA: The grand jury's final report makes it clear that participants believe perjury charges are warranted for some witnesses. The case is now in the hands of the Fulton County District Attorney. CNN's Sara Murray has the latest for us. So, Sara, what is being made of the quite unusual comments from the foreperson?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that there has been sort of a lot of surprises, a lot of shock seeing her out there because this is not what we would see you know, in a normal case with a regular grand jury.