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Foreperson On GA Grand Jury: Panel Recommended Multiple Indictments; McClellan To Become 1st Black Woman to Represent VA in Congress; Murdaugh's Former Law Partner Testifies About Night Of The Murders; Study: Physical Activity Could Boost Brain Health As You Age. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 22, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that there has been sort of a lot of surprise, a lot of shock, seeing her out there.
Because this is not what we would see, you know, in a normal case with a regular grand jury, you would not hear, you know, for instance, people who sat on a regular jury speak until after somebody faced charges or was convicted or cleared.
In this case, because it's a special grand jury, in Georgia, the rules are a little bit different. And she is able to go out and speak publicly about some things related to the case. Obviously, we saw a lot of that from her yesterday.
We should note that the district attorney's office, they are not the ones that are responsible for authorizing whether these special grand jurors can speak publicly.
And I'm told they did not know she was going to go public until she started doing these interviews.
But Emily Kohrs is that foreperson. She not only dropped hints about what was in the report, she made clear that after the months and months that the special spent investigating the former president and his allies' efforts to overturn the 2020 election, that she hopes the district attorney does something.
Take a listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMILY KOHRS, FOREPERSON, GEORGIA SPECIAL GRAND JURY: I will be sad if nothing happens. Like, that's about my only request there, is for something to happen.
I don't necessarily know what it is. I'm not the legal expert. I'm not the judge. I'm not the lawyers. But I will be frustrated if nothing happens.
This was too much. Too much information, too much of my time, too much of everyone's time, too much of their time, too much argument in court about getting people to appear before us.
There was just too much for this to just be, oh, OK, we're good, bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: I'm told by people familiar with the matter that prosecutors are still weighing who they're actually going to bring charges against.
They're looking through these referrals that have not yet been made public from the special grand jury and kind of going line by line, saying, look, do we have enough evidence that is going to hold up in court to bring an indictment against each of the people that the special grand jury referred?
Then it is up to the district attorney to go to a regular grand jury and seek those indictments.
She has previously said that they are imminent. We're still waiting to see exactly what that means -- guys?
BIANNA GOLODRYA, CNN HOST: All right, Sara Murray, thank you.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Joining us with more on this case, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.
Elliot, good to have you.
When Kate Bolduan was interviewing Miss Kohrs, I literally said out loud, what is happening right now?
How often do we the foreperson in this position on a special grand jury?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, we don't. And to back up Sara's point, it's a special grand jury, which is a little bit different from a traditional grand jury that has the power to indict.
But pull the camera back, Victor, good lord. The mere fact that you have the right to do something -- and she has a right to speak, as a citizen, and even the grand jury rules in Georgia, you know, as long as she's not speaking about deliberations, she's allowed to.
The mere fact that you have the right doesn't mean you ought to do it. And you can create serious problems for a prosecution or a court by speaking publicly.
Number one, any defendant who is charged with a crime can immediately now move to have that indictment thrown out on the basis of saying, look, Your Honor, even before this was even a case, my client -- the grand jury was out there talking about how indictments were coming, dragging the names -- teasing that indictments were on the way and it's impossible to get a fair trial for my client.
She handed them that. And that will continue through any trial. So there's just -- there's any number of both legal and practical
problems that arise wherever anyone connected to the process goes out and starts talking about deliberations and so on.
BLACKWELL: Is there some special relevance of, what the sound byte that Sara just played, she would be sad if there is -- if nothing happened. She would be frustrated that there's some emotional investment in charging the people who came before the special grand jury or those they were brought in to investigate.
WILLIAMS: Well, yes and no. Here's why. If you were -- if someone was on a grand jury for several months and ultimately came to a conclusion that a defendant should be charged with a crime, certainly, they're invested in it and have a right to say that it's disappointing, that it happened.
The problem is that in making the statement, she's undermined the integrity and the independence of the grand jury.
It now appears that they are just an arm of whether it's the elected prosecutor or sort of political opponents of people who might be charged with crimes.
And it just sort of smells bad, even if, by the letter of the law, nothing -- no law was broken by any of those statements.
BLACKWELL: So let's talk about what she said here. And I want to play a sound byte. This is about phone calls.
Of course, we heard the call between Trump and the secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, where Trump asks for the 11,780 votes, just find them.
Here's what she said about other calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOHRS: I can tell you I heard other phone calls. I don't think I could name all of them right now if I wanted to. After 75 witnesses in eight months, it gets hard to keep all of your bits straight.
[14:35:07]
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS HOST: Other calls that Donald Trump was on?
KOHRS: Yes. I'm positive I have heard the president on the phone more than once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: She wouldn't go into more specifics -- I see you shaking your head, Elliot.
WILLIAMS: No.
BLACKWELL: She's just kind of talking here about some of the evidence, but there could be some more compelling sound out there.
WILLIAMS: Sure, but here's the problem that is created with a statement like that, Victor. The entire Fulton County, Georgia, could potentially be -- anybody in Fulton County who's sort of over the age of 18 can be a potential juror in this trial.
They're hearing now evidence that's going to be presented before them at trial. And developing opinions about it, developing opinions about defendants. That, too, can taint the prosecution.
If this individual who we're hearing from really wants these people charged with crimes so badly, she better shut her mouth about them.
Because ultimately, she could imperil their convictions, if they ever reached that point.
And on appeal, after someone's been convicted, that's when attorneys can raise an argument like, hey, look, nothing was fair from the beginning here, on account of the fact that the jury pool was tainted by information that was presented to them, even before we got into court.
It's just, again, nothing fatal has happened here right now. I don't want to sound too over the top, but the risks are so great to the process, which is why judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys are so risk averse at this stage.
BLACKWELL: Last one here. CNN's reporting is not whether there will or will not be indictments. The question is, when, how many, how broad will the charges be that, of course, Fanny Willis has to bring, not the special grand jury.
When you have, as Kohr suggested, 12 or maybe more people who are recommended to face charges, who do you prioritize? Do you go after everyone, because you have the evidence?
Do you have to strategize about your resources and if you can -- if you have the bandwidth to prosecute all of these people?
WILLIAMS: Yes, you know, look, as in everything in government, certainly in law enforcement, resources matter. If you have the resources to go to trial, yes, that will dictate things.
But the simple thing, wherever prosecutors proceed with going to trial, it's, what is, number one, the most readily provable offense -- that's the language -- that you can bring?
Number two, what do you think you can get past a jury? If that's six or 11 or 12 or how many people?
If you think and are convinced and can credibly say that we think that we can get this past a jury unanimously, beyond a reasonable doubt, that's who you charge with crimes. But beyond that, there may be political factors.
But, no, the simple fact is, do you think you can win? That's what drives the day as a prosecutor.
BLACKWELL: Elliot Williams, we had a lot of head shaking through this one. I appreciate you working through it.
Thank you so much.
WILLIAMS: Sorry!
BLACKWELL: No, no, it's good.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
GOLODRYGA: He was trying to be as professional as he could.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLODRYGA: Tell us how you really feel during the commercial break, Elliot!
Well, a first for Virginia. CNN projects that Virginia's State Senator Jennifer McClellan will win the special election for the state's Fourth Congressional District.
BLACKWELL: That makes her the first black woman to represent the commonwealth in Congress.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is following this one for us.
What more are we hearing from McClellan today?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This certainly does not change the balance of power in Congress, but it is a big mark of history for the former capital of the confederacy. That's where McClellan represents.
She's been in the House of Delegates. Initially, she was elected in 2005. And she's filling the seat of the late Congressman McEachin.
She's 50 years old and talked about when this meant for her family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE SEN. JENNIFER MCLELLAN (D-VA): There are moments I realize that I'm fighting the same fights as my parents, my grandparents, and my great grandparents.
But you know what keeps me going. I fight those fights so they don't have to. So my children and your children don't have to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: And she'll be joining a Congress that is the most diverse in history. She's the third African-American elected to Congress from Virginia and the first woman, as we said before here.
But look, she's a veteran legislature in her own right, from the Virginia house of delegates, the Virginia Senate.
She ran for governor in Virginia in 2021. Came up short in that primary. But now will be serving here in Washington.
So, again, does not change the balance of power in Congress, but certainly is a mark of history for Virginia, the site of the old Confederacy.
GOLODRYGA: A symbolic moment there.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you.
[14:39:53]
Well, hitting the gym can do more than just build muscles. What a new study says it can do for your brain. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: Today, in the double murder trial of Alex Murdaugh, the former South Carolina attorney accused of killing his wife and son, the defense called Murdaugh's former law partner to the stand. He was with Murdaugh on the night of the murders.
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Randi Kaye is in Walterboro, South Carolina.
So, Randi, what did he tell jurors today?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is not only a long-time law partner, but a long-time friend we're talking about. They've known each other for about 35 years.
This witness testified for quite some time. He was called by the defense. But he also seemed to help the state and the prosecutors in much of his system.
[14:45:01]
Certainly, first, for the defense, he talked about some of the -- what he seemed to suggest was sloppy investigations being done at the crime scene, how they didn't block the crime scene off. There were crimes and people coming and going.
He talked about going into the feed room and finding a piece of his skull after the investigation in that area, he says, was completed.
He also, in terms of helping the state, he did go on to identify Alex Murdaugh's voice on that very key piece of evidence. That 8:44 a.m. video, from the night of the murders, at the dog kennels.
Now, he is identifying Alex Murdaugh's voice on that. Alex Murdaugh has told investigators and others that he was not there at the time of the murders earlier in the night. One other piece of testimony from him. He talked about how Alex
Murdaugh changed his story when he arrived at the scene of the murders and in which order he checked his family. Whether or not he checked his son, Paul, first or Maggie first.
Watch what that exchange looked like in court today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK BALL, FORMER LAW PARTNER TO ALEX MURDAUGH: I've heard it both ways. And I don't know whether it's just -- I don't know whether it's just because of the trauma of the situation.
But one time it was -- the first time I remember, he checked Maggie first, then went to Paul. And I heard him say at one point it was Paul, then it was Maggie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Alex Murdaugh has said that when he arrived at the crime scene to find his wife and son dead, he checked their pulse and then he also tried to turn his son, Paul, over, a couple of times.
But of course, the looming question today that's really hanging over this courthouse is whether or not Alex Murdaugh is going to take the stand.
It doesn't seem as though the defense has decided. They were trying to put some parameters on his testimony.
If he does take the stand earlier this morning without the jury present in the courtroom, asking the judge if he would limit it to just cross-examination about the murders, not about these alleged financial crimes that the state has put forward as to why he would have killed his wife and son.
The judge has not decided on how much of that testimony would be limited -- Victor, Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: Randi Kaye, thank you.
BLACKWELL: The EPA chief says that Norfolk Southern will clean up and fix this mess after the toxic train derailment. We'll have a live update from East Palestine, Ohio.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:49]
BLACKWELL: So we know that exercise can benefit both your body and your brain but a new study suggests being physically active at any age during adulthood is linked to having better cognitive health later in life.
GOLODRYGA: CNN health reporter, Jacqueline Howard, joins us.
Jacqueline, this confirms that exercise is indeed a wonder drug.
JACQUALINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: It does confirm that. And it shows that you can start ramping up your exercise regimen really at any stage.
I mean, it's never too late. At any age you can start to invest in your health with exercise and still get cognitive benefits.
So for this particular study, researchers looked at more than 1,400 adults over decades between the ages of 36 and 69 and they checked in with them about five times during that time period to see how much exercise they were getting.
And they saw the adults that got regular exercise during that time period had better cognitive health at age 69.
But also those who may have started later on in life with really investing in their health and ramping up their exercise, they also had cognitive benefits.
So the takeaway here is that it's never too late to really get into a regular exercise schedule for yourself.
BLACKWELL: How much exercise for this cognitive benefit?
HOWARD: Yes, well, that was surprising to me. The researchers found you may still get the benefit if you work out at least once a month.
Now, of course, it's recommended to get way more exercise than that.
The U.S. federal guidelines are to get at least 150 minutes of moderate exercise each week. So that can be 30 minutes, five times a week, two one-hour workouts plus 30 minutes.
And a way to add more physical activity into your daily regimen, go for a walk before or after dinner. And have a workout partner to hold you accountable.
So there are easy ways to make sure you are getting the recommended physical activity you need.
That's what recommended. But the study showed just the little bit can have benefit.
BLACKWELL: Bianna, during the commercial breaks, we review our workout routines in the morning.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. You got a pretty tough one.
BLACKWELL: Lifting. Swimming in the morning.
GOLODRYGA: Running. Yes.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: It all helps. BLACKWELL: Jacqueline Howard, thanks very much.
[14:54:01]
Well, President Biden is on his way home after he rallied support for Ukraine nearly a year to the day after Russia's invasion. We'll bring you his message to other world leaders ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Authorities in Japan are investigating a mysterious metal sphere that was found on a beach south of Tokyo yesterday.
The roughly four-foot diameter ball prompted police to call in a bomb squad?
BLACKWELL: Local news media reports say careful examination revealed the object was not a threat, but they really didn't learn what exactly this thing is.
GOLODRYGA: It looks like a big volleyball.
BLACKWELL: I think it's more than that.
GOLODRYGA: I think it is true, safe to say.
BLACKWELL: The Pentagon is warning U.S troops to avoid eating poppy seeds because they may cause members to fail military drug exams.
GOLODRYGA: Officials sent out a memo stating recent data suggests some have more codeine and could be contaminated during the harvesting of poppy plants.
It was emotional return to the court in east Lansing, Michigan. Michigan State men's basketball team won its first home games since the mass shooting on their campus.
Fans wore white. And players from both teams wore warm-ups that read "Spartan strong."
BLACKWELL: In the students section, eight seats were left empty for the victims of the shooting.
[14:59:48]
As the game ended, Michigan State's head coach -- look here -- could be seen wiping tears. Afterwards he hoped the victory brought smiles to people's faces after so many days of pain.
Top of a new hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Good to be with you. I'm Victor Blackwell.
