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Murdaugh Admits He Was At Kennels Night Of Murders; NTSB To Hold Hearing On Toxic Derailment In East Palestine, OH; Ukraine Ramps Up Security As Tomorrow Marks One Year Of War. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 23, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

We begin this hour with the emotional testimony from former South Carolina attorney turned murder defendant Alex Murdaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX MURDAUGH, CHARGED WITH KILLING WIFE AND SON: I didn't shoot my wife or my son anytime, ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Prosecutors have accused Murdaugh of killing his wife and youngest son to cover up a slew of other alleged financial crimes.

BLACKWELL: He adamantly denied any involvement in their deaths. But Murdaugh admitted to lying repeatedly to investigators about where he was the night of the murders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM GRIFFIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Were you in fact at the kennels at 8:44 p.m. on the night Maggie and Paul were murdered?

MURDAUGH: I was. I did a lot of them. My addiction evolved over time. I would get any situations and circumstances where I would get paranoid thinking. It could be anything that triggered. It might be a look somebody gave me. It might be a reaction somebody had to something I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Dianne Gallagher is at the courthouse in South Carolina. Also with us, Jean Casarez, who's watched this entire trial. Dianne, let me start with you because the defense attorneys got to two of the questions that most people have right off the top.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Victor. Initially -- look. The pivotal question at the center of this entire trial, did you kill your wife and your son? Alex Murdaugh very emotionally saying no to both of those. But his Attorney, Jim Griffin, as he has this entire time went into excruciating detail as to how both Paul Murdaugh and Maggie Murdaugh were killed. We have heard those brutal details about those killings for the past month now here in Walterboro South Carolina.

Alex Murdaugh, I will tell you, before he took the stand I had been told since this trial started by defense sources that he wanted to testify on his own behalf. But there was a lot that goes into it. It is a high risk for any defendant to testify, to take the stand. But especially because Alex Murdaugh as you guys played that sound at the beginning, has been caught in lies during this trial so far. And talking about his voice on a video that was found on his son's phone that was recorded at 8:44 p.m. at those dog kennels on the property, and that's where Paul Murdaugh was killed just moments after that video was shot.

The video wasn't discovered on Paul's phone until the Secret Service got into it in early 2022, more than six months after Paul had been killed. And so, it wasn't something Alex Murdaugh was questioned about originally. He had sworn to anybody who would listen to him that he had never been to those kennels after dinner, that he did not see Peggy -- Maggie and Paul after dinner. But person after person, family member, relative, friend testified that they heard his voice on that video.

Alex Murdaugh admitting that he lied, think he couldn't get control of the lie afterward. He said, oh what a tangled web we weave once he had lied because of that drug addiction. He then broke down apologizing to everyone, including his wife and his son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUDAUGH: Most of all, I'm sorry to Mags and Paulpaul. I would never intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, Look. Alex Murdaugh has also attempted to address other inconsistencies in his story matching with the state's investigation while up on the stand. The defense is going point by point through the state's investigation that we've heard over the past month here trying to get Murdaugh to explain why he was, where he was, and why certain data doesn't match up.

Now, what's interesting here is that look, Alex Murdaugh was a once prominent attorney. He has since fallen from grace to "his own attorney" and has been disbarred with more than 90 other charges that still await him after this trial, mostly dealing with financial crimes and fraud. Those have been introduced in some part during this trial by the state because it hinges on their motive.

[14:05:00]

Remember, the state isn't sure they don't think they have the murder weapons. They don't have actual video of the murder happening. So, they've acknowledged that much of this is circumstantial evidence, but they're trying to explain to the jury there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. And we've heard that over and over again.

Alex Murdaugh, though trained as an attorney himself, has been using certain tactics that we can see here. My producer, West Brewer (PH) was inside. And he said that when the Attorney, Jim Griffin, speaks to Alex, Alex looks at him. But when he answers, he turns directly to the jury, he engages in speaking at them.

He said that most of the jurors, with the exception of one, seem quite engaged with what Alex is saying, looking back at him. He said that there was one juror, a woman, who's sitting on the front row kind of has her back a little bit to Alex Murdaugh from what he could see, my producer, but said that otherwise, they're watching Alex Murdaugh. And some of these tracks with what we have heard from testimony about him being an engaging person. They call him a people person a lot.

For the most of us, we didn't know about Alex Murdaugh until all of this happened. But for people here in this community, he was seen as a charismatic individual for a while as an attorney. And we're sort of watching that play out here.

The defense hoping that that will benefit him, but again, he has been shown to be a liar already on the stand, a cheat, and a fraud in most cases. And the question is whether or not his testimony can overcome that. And what happens when cross-examination begins?

GOLODRYGA: So, Jean, let me turn to you. A risky decision to have Alex testify. Given that, what did you make of the opening line of questioning from the defense --

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they have --

GOLODRYGA: -- having him -- having him admit that he lied, and asking him straight out of the bat, did you kill your wife?

CASAREZ: That's the question, right? So, they got right to the heart of it. And then they went straight to being down at the kennels minutes before the murders happened, according to the prosecution. And so, I think they wanted that out in front.

You know, the jury has to believe him. If they don't believe Alex Murdaugh on the trial -- on the stand, he will not be acquitted because they have to believe him to have a not guilty verdict. So, this is a pivotal moment right here. And there's been so much evidence in the last few weeks and are our holes in the evidence, there's no question about it.

One thing that was touched on today in the examination so far was his clothes because they were clean. And there was blood spatter, according to the prosecution, found in a secondary test. But the first test done by SLED showed there was no blood on that T-shirt. And then a secondary test showed there was some blood spatter on it. But he said to the jury, they lied. There wasn't blood spatter.

Well, here's the thing. In that initial test, there wasn't. The secondary test, there was but it was fish blood, allegedly because it was a fishing shirt that he had used. So, you see the devils in the details here, and that's what they're going to try to get out on the direct examination.

BLACKWELL: Yes, Jean, to get the lie out first I mean, you got to get the elephant out of the room because they've seen the video --

CASAREZ: Yes.

BLACKWELL: -- they've heard the testimony that that is Alex Murdaugh. But his explanation for why he lied, he said that he was paranoid because of the drugs, did not trust SLED. This is a former volunteer solicitor. To say that you don't trust law enforcement when what we know about your professional history and that you don't trust SLED, the first person he lied to was not from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. It was that 911 operator.

CASAREZ: Right.

BLACKWELL: So, that seems to be fodder for the state once they take the -- takeover.

CASAREZ: As far as the opioid addiction, we've heard testimony that he spent upwards of $50,000 a week on opioids. He had someone that supplied it to him. This is a serious issue that he had. He gone to rehab in 2018. His family knew about it for at least since 2018.

So, with this addiction, would he lie? Is that a truthful statement right there? And once he lied, how do you backtrack and say, well, you know, I was wrong, I actually was down there? So, the jury will have to assess all of that. And as far as not believing SLED, either he was -- he was a prosecutor and he's lying saying that or by being that prosecutor he's seen inside of SLED and has seen what they have done to other people to gain convictions.

GOLODRYGA: I believe the prosecutors called for one objection that was overruled and it was regarding the clothes that he was wearing.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Right?

CASAREZ: Right.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

CASAREZ: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Thank you so much, Jean Casarez and Dianne Gallagher.

CASAREZ: Thanks. GOLODRYGA: Well, moments ago, the NTSB revealed that it will hold a rare public hearing in the spring to investigate the catastrophic train fire and derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. The February 3rd event has since set off a wave of fear in the community of toxic exposure. The NTSB released its preliminary findings today, which normally do not include a cause.

BLACKWELL: So, the report detailed that five of the several dozen Norfolk Southern cars that went off the tracks carried more than 115,000 gallons of vinyl chloride, a cancer-causing chemical.

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The other report also found miles before the derailment the train crew was getting signs that the train was reaching dangerous temperatures. So, as you see here, look at that, we've highlighted there in the video, from 38 degrees at milepost 79 to 253 degrees at milepost 49.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HOMENDY, NTSB CHAIRWOMAN: I can tell you this much. This was one hundred percent preventable. We call things accidents. There is no accident. Every single event that we investigate is preventable. So, our hearts are with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg also visited the East Palestine site today.

GOLODRYGA: CNN's Jason Carroll is in East Palestine, Ohio but we're going to start with CNN's Pete Muntean who has been combing through this four-page report. So, Pete, what are some of the big takeaways here?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Some of the very big takeaways here, Bianna, about the heat that was involved in this lead- up to the derailment at East Palestine, what's so interesting is that the NTSB says this all comes down to a wheel bearing that began overheating. You mentioned that rise in temperature that was very quick, 38 degrees above ambient temperature, then 69 degrees above the ambient temperature, 103, and then 253 degrees. That was only then that a wayside detector, that is something that is either on the track or next to the track with an infrared beam, was able to detect that high rise in heat that very quick rise in heat, and alerted the crew that there may be a problem and to tell them to slow down. That is so critical.

But if you look at that graphic one more time, the big issue here according to a very impassioned NTSB chair, Jennifer Homendy, is that those detectors are spaced out by miles. The mile markers count down there as the temperature goes up. 79, 69, that's 10 miles, another 20 miles to the next one. That is not federally regulated and NTSB chair Jennifer Homedy says that is something the National Transportation Safety Board will look at, as it considers instituting some recommendations here for the Department of Transportation to then regulate. It has been such a huge issue safety advocates say because the rail industry fights tooth and nail according to safety advocates against new regulations.

Even though Norfolk Southern, the train operator here says, safety is a top priority, it's complying with this investigation, but there are big questions now, Victor and Bianna, about whether or not everyone was on the same page Although we do know, at least from the NTSB, that they're not laying any blame on the crew. Although there are some big questions about whether or not those detectors picked this up early enough and whether or not that part that failed, whether or not it was overused, or if it was re nearing the end of its life. A lot -- a lot of big questions here are not done just yet. We're only at the very beginning stages of this investigation.

BLACKWELL: All right, let's go to Jason there in East Palestine. So, we saw the EPA Administrator there twice now. Today, this transportation secretary toward East Palestine. Tell us more about his visit.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you are correct. I mean, he was out here, Pete Buttigieg, transportation secretary, visiting with local officials here on the ground, including the mayor. He met with residents as well. Then he spoke to reporters. And as you can imagine, he's been criticized for why he did not come here sooner not just only by politicians, but by a lot of folks here on the ground as well.

And when that question was put to him several times, he finally admitted that it was something that he should have expressed himself on sooner. After that, though, he did go over some of the things that we've heard before about the need for more regulation, higher fines when it comes to some of these -- some of these rail companies, the need to get Congress more involved in terms of train deregulation, things like that.

But then what was really important, too, is a number of residents that I've spoken to earlier this week, had indicated to me, if you ever does come ask him, if this administration will be here five years from now, will they be here for the long run? And so, I put that question to him. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Well, they're right to be concerned with some of these issues, health issues, environmental issues. They can last for years, and last for decades. And there's really just two things I can say. First of all, we will never forget the people of East Palestine, and we will support them with everything we've got. But second, the best way to deal with an ecological disaster is to stop it from happening in the first place. And that's a big part of where my department comes in. And we take that very seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Bianna, just so you know where we are right now, we are just yards from where this crash happened over my shoulder there where you can see the cleanup effort is well underway.

[14:15:07]

Trains are running through here, just as they always have in the past. The Transportation Secretary also making a point saying that it is now time for everyone to wrap their arms around the people of East Palestine. And he says this should not be used as a political issue, Victor, Bianna.

BLACKWELL: Jason Carroll for us there, Pete Muntean also with the reporting, thank you so much.

Let's bring it now Peter Goelz, a CNN contributor, and former NTSB Managing Director, and Peter DeCarlo, an environmental health and Engineering Professor at John Hopkins University. I'm going to have to use your first and last names because you're both Peter.

So, let me start with Peter Goelz on this question. When I saw this number of 253 degrees Fahrenheit above ambient temperature, I don't have much perspective there. I don't know -- I don't know if these are supposed to be cool to the touch. So, Peter Goelz, tell me how egregious is that to see that wheel bearing reach that temperature.

PETER GOELZ, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that's a fire that started already. And the wayside detectors were probably not calibrated to pick up lower temperatures and send the message to the engineers. And that's certainly one thing the NTSB is going to look at. Also, they'll look at the spacing of the -- of the wayside detectors.

But you have to remember, all of these regulations go through a cost- benefit analysis that was mandated back in the Clinton administration. It's been strengthened in succeeding administrations. The Obama administration backed away from it. The Trump administration went the whole hog in it. In fact, the DOT used to pride itself for every new regulation put in place to be removed. So, this is the idea of strengthening these regulations. Easier said than done.

BLACKWELL: Peter Goelz, let me stay with you and you're talking about regulations. Yesterday, the president -- former President Trump was asked about deregulation of the railroads during his administration. He swatted the question off. It's the withdrawing of the Obama-era regulation requiring the use of electronically controlled pneumatic brakes on certain types of train -- that train sort of carrying flammable liquids. If that had not been withdrawn, do you think those regulations would have prevented something like this?

GOELZ: Well, it depends on how broadly that requirement was in place. There were only a fairly limited number of cars, I think that were four, maybe six that were placard -- you know, that were identified as being highly flammable. That might not have been enough to trigger the requirement of pneumatic brakes. But it's certainly -- you know, when a train starts to have a problem, you want the engineer to be able -- first to be notified of it, then secondly, to be able to do something about it before a disaster occurs.

BLACKWELL: Peter DeCarlo, I want you to listen to the CEO of Norfolk Southern. This is during CNN Town Hall last night, talked about the cleanup effort. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN SHAW, NORFOLK SOUTHERN CEO: We've dug up 4600 cubic yards of soil and collected 1.7 million gallons of water. We will continue with environmental remediation. And in early March, we will start by tearing up the tracks and digging up the soil underneath the tracks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So, we know from this report, 115,000 gallons of vinyl chloride in five of these derailed train cars and there was the controlled burn. From what you've heard that CEO describe so far, how broad is the scope of the cleanup ahead? What is necessary? Is this just the first layer of what will be many?

PETER DECARLO, ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AND ENGINEERING PROFESSOR JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Yes. I mean, I think it's definitely the start. But one of the things that I think is missed in a lot of these discussions, is while vinyl chloride was the initial chemical that was spilled when you burn it, you create a whole host of other chemicals. And so, we need to understand what chemicals are present, not for acute exposures, but for the long-term -- for the chronic exposure so the people who live in East Palestine. And if we don't test that soil that's being removed and that water that's being removed and understand all of the potential environmental contaminants, we don't really know what to expect in the future. And so, it's really important that we're not just cleaning up but we're also identifying what we need to be worried about.

BLACKWELL: So, when you say that you have to test for the next several years, obviously, what we're hearing from state and federal regulators and health experts is that the water is safe to drink, the air is safe to breathe, of course, there's the remediation of the soil, could those things change four or five years out that at some point because of the presence of whatever those secondary tertiary chemicals are the water because of this crash will not be safe to drink, the air will not be safe to breathe, and because the soil is still there, in some ways that it's dangerous, then and it isn't now?

[14:20:25]

DECARLO: I mean, I think if we know what's there now, we know what to continue to look for and to continue to try to remove. And it's not just the soil in the water in the air, it's people's homes too. Things -- you know, smoke gets into people's homes from the controlled burn. And what chemicals got in there is one level of cleaning enough.

If you walk around outside and get dirt on your shoes and track that into your home, it's another way to introduce some of these chemicals back into your home after you've cleaned them. I think ultimately, we are data starved in terms of what chemicals are present. And you know, the -- Senators Brown and Vance wrote a letter, I think five days ago requesting testing for dioxin. And I haven't seen any movement on that. I don't -- I haven't seen data, but those are certain chemicals that are things to be worried about if they're present and the long- term consequences at low concentrations.

BLACKWELL: The last one for you, Peter Goelz. This is a preliminary report. There's a fuller NTSB report coming. Will that report -- in discussing the probable cause, will that come down to a specific role of a specific person or will it be by your expectation, condemnation of deregulation overall, or the company should do X, Y, Z? How specific should we expect this to be?

GOELZ: Well, you're right. The NTSB report will come probably in a year or so. But the one thing you can trust is that the NTSB will follow the facts, period. They are not diverted by politics. They are not diverted by agendas. They follow the facts. They will track this down and identify all of the actors that led to this tragedy. And they will make recommendations and some of which may be painful, but they will make recommendations so that this won't happen again.

BLACKWELL: Peter Goelz, Peter DeCarlo, thank you both.

GOLODRYGA: You know, just listening to that conversation, you can understand why residents there still have so many questions -

BLACKWELL: And so anxious.

GOLODRYGA: -- taking on about today, but about the weeks and months ahead.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Sure.

GOLODRYGA: Well, officials in Ukraine are on high alert and putting extra security measures in place as the nation prepares to mark one year since Russia's illegal invasion. We'll talk more about this next phase in the war. Ahead.

BLACKWELL: Plus, there is historic heat in the East, blistering winter storm out west. An update on the crazy mix of weather being experienced right now across the U.S.

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[14:26:47]

BLACKWELL: As we approach the one-year anniversary of the invasion of Ukraine, Russia continues to strike. Today in Kharkiv, one person was wounded when an administrative building was struck by a Russian missile. Two people in the Kherson region were killed by Russian shelling. And in the Russian-occupied city of Mariupol, Ukrainian strikes targeted Russian bases.

GOLODRYGA: And other parts of the country, security measures are being stepped up ahead of tomorrow's anniversary, schools are holding classes online, and many are being encouraged to work from home. Meanwhile, NATO says that it has seen signs that China is considering and may be planning to send arms to Russia. CNN's chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour is in Kyiv.

And, Christiane, it's interesting listening to us talk about this build-up to this anniversary because every day is a war there really, for Ukrainians. And every day they're trying to go about their lives. Still, they are dodging bullets. They are dodging missiles. They don't have electricity in large parts of the country. I'm just curious to get your response now to the news, however, that China could possibly be helping Russia with lethal aid. How are Ukrainians responding to that?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, they are very, very concerned, obviously. I mean, I over the weekend, spoke to the Ukrainian foreign minister about those worries that surfaced during the Munich Security Conference. And they -- you know, go on to condemn China outright because they want to deal with China as well in terms of hoping that China can put some pressure on Russia to stop this and to get out of Ukraine. So, they're hoping that China will do what it says and that keeps its neutral role and be an honest broker. It's not at all clear that that is what is afoot.

I spoke to Victoria Nuland, the Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs, they're concerned that some perhaps private Chinese companies are already are sending some sort of aid to various frontline groups. They have not yet seen any direct evidence of a state-approved help lethal aid to Russia, but they want to make sure that doesn't happen.

Victoria Nuland also said that this is something -- this war is something that simply never had to happen. This was her take on what it is to be one year into this war now.

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VICTORIA NULAND, U.S. UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: This is just all so unnecessary, and evil. You know this is all about one man's fantasy of conquest, Vladimir Putin's decision that Ukraine ought to be his rather than a sovereign free country. And the suffering in Ukraine is unbelievable, as you illustrated there. But they are standing tall, and they are standing strong because they are fighting for their land and for their future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And, of course, she was referencing the hundreds of thousands on both sides who've been killed and wounded. A grinding war of attrition, as they say, a real meat grinder out in the east. And Kyiv, of course on high alert as these days pause, and actually this country enters a second year of the war. Speed for them is of the essence they say while requesting even more and more timely weapons to defend themselves from their NATO friends, Bianna.