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In Moments: Prosecutors Cross-Examine Alex Murdaugh. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired February 23, 2023 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:00]
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He was a civil attorney in a firm that was his father's firm, grandfather's firm, got huge civil verdicts for people who had been wronged. And he took some of those, many of those amounts of money, which were huge amounts, and funneled them into his own accounts. And the firm had no idea he was doing that.
And he was doing that because he needed money. Needed money because of, as the testimony we've heard, all of the drugs that he was taking, all of the opioids that he was taking. But it was pivotal testimony, but the demeanor was not emotional when he talked about those financial crimes.
Very important for the defense because the motive of the prosecution is you were so concerned about your finances and about this hearing that was coming up in regard to the boating accident where your son Paul was on the boat. A young girl died when they were all having a party one night because of, according to the testimony, excess alcohol on board.
And you were so worried your finances were going to come up that you shot and killed your wife and your son. And so, they wanted to take away that motive. Wasn't that concerned about it. There was equity on the homes. He could get getting loans on the homes.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Dianne Gallagher joins us also from outside the courthouse there in Walterboro. And another crucial moment from this segment of the direct examination was the questioning about the confrontation, about stealing from the law firm and from those victims and he's asking a supplier of the pills to which he was addicted to shoot him, to kill him. Just walk us through that portion of the testimony.
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So Victor, to a lot of people, this is the, quote, suicide for hire insurance fraud scheme that happened in September of 2021 where Alex Murdaugh admittedly asked a friend, former client and he claims drug dealer of his, to shoot him in the head. He says to kill him so his son Buster could get a $12 million life insurance policy.
Now, obviously, it did not work. And Alex Murdaugh, we had heard him on a recording from a rehabilitation center in Georgia telling law enforcement about this plot earlier in the trial. But this is the first time we've ever heard Alex himself in the flesh, talk about doing this. And this was something the defense had initially worked to keep out of this trial, arguing that it would prejudice the jury against him.
The state has said that that shows irrational behavior from Alex Murdaugh, and they've used that when they're talking about what they say he does, when he is, in their words, backed against the wall or there is accountability coming for him. The way Murdaugh described it was a man who he says simply didn't want to live anymore.
He felt that there was going to be more information coming out about the financial crimes that Jean was discussing there and that he thought that it would be humiliating for his only surviving son, Buster.
Now, we anticipate to hear a lot more about this and those financial crimes during the cross-examination period from the prosecution. I was speaking with one of the attorneys who represents one of Alex's victims in one of those financial crimes, and I asked him about him testifying, and he did note that he believed that Alex Murdaugh doing this for the jury and opening himself up to having to talk about those crimes for which he has not entered a plea, nor he be convicted of yet could be perhaps seen as him putting it all on the line to prove he did not do this.
And he's willing to maybe put at risk that he could spend the rest of his life in jail for those financial crimes simply to clear his name of these murders. Again, it's been demonstrated that he's lied several times. Whether or not the jury will buy that he's telling the truth under oath is still to be seen.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: And Dave, I know you were skeptical about the idea and decision to have Alex testify there, and I'm just curious to get your thoughts on how you thought the defense did in questioning him. They got him to admit that he lied to police and authorities and that he stole from clients and from his law firm. Is that to sort of diffuse what they expect to be an aggressive cross examination from prosecutors?
DAVE ARONBERG, STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA: Yes. You want to get the bad stuff out up front. You want to get it out before the prosecutors get it out. But, look, his whole defense now is that the opioids made me do it. The opioids made me lie and lie and lie about everything, about being at the kennels. And now I'm changing my story. I'm telling you the truth. I've lied every day up until now, but now I'm telling you the truth.
[15:35:03]
It doesn't really make sense to me. It shows that he's a narcissist. He's a con man. And also one thing that was interesting, he said he came down to the kennels in a golf cart. Well, doesn't that explain why someone between the height of 5'2 and 5'4 allegedly shot the victims? That was according to the defense's own expert. And Murdaugh is over 6 feet. Well, not if he's sitting in a golf cart. So to me, the defense brought out things that the prosecution could have a field day with, and they will.
BLACKWELL: All right, everybody, stand by. We're going to take a quick break, but we're just a few minutes into a 10-minute recess before the questioning of Alex Murdaugh continues there in South Carolina. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: We're expecting Alex Murdaugh to be back on the stand in just minutes for the beginning of the cross examination from prosecutors after hours of questioning by his defense team there.
[15:40:03]
Let's bring back in our reporters and analyst Dianne Gallagher in South Carolina, Jean Casarez here with us and Attorney Dave Aronberg. Dave, I want to pick up on a point that you left off on about what we're learning about and what he's admitting to in these initial questions.
You now have someone who has admitted to lying and cheating and stealing. He's also an attorney who knows how to perform before a jury. This is similar to the questions we had about in very different context, Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. These were performers. They knew how to perform. How do you prepare as a defense attorney or how do you make that person more, I guess, likable to a jury when they have all this information about the defendant?
ARONBERG: Victor, I think he's on the stand because he believes he can calm the jury. He thinks he's the smartest guy in every room. And I believe he did this over the objections of his own lawyers and that's why he's up there crying about Pawpaw (ph) and Bubba (ph) and the fruit tree. A lot of that stuff is relevant, but he thinks that he's going to be a human being in front of this jury.
But in the end, it's about the evidence and it's about his lying. He is explaining the fact that he lied about being at the kennels, the murder scene by saying the opioids made him really paranoid and that's why he lied up until today. But are you saying then that the opioids that made you so paranoid that you would lie about your son and wife's murder did not make you so paranoid that you would actually commit the murders?
So there is a lot of leaps that have to be done here and I cannot wait for the cross examination. It will be must see TV.
GOLODRYGA: So, Jean, maybe I think two or three questions max that were asked by his defense attorney about whether he stole money from his clients and from his firm. Hold that thought. We're going to go back to the Walterboro courtroom where the cross examination of Alex Murdaugh will begin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May bring the jury. GOLODRYGA: And quickly, Jean, it just struck me that, you know, they got it out of the way that here he admitted to stealing and lying. The rest of the questions, the crux of that Q&A had to do with his addiction and that stood out to you.
CASAREZ: Right. And I think the prosecutor is going to go check by check, victim by victims. These were civil victims that had been in accidents or things that happened to them and they got, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, some of them, and going to go -- and you stole it. You stole it. He's going to really focus in on that, to show character right there.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And but the addiction itself, the questions, the sympathy, I guess, that he was trying to evoke from jurors.
CASAREZ: And some jurors may relate to that because if they have families or friends that have been addicted and those addictions lead to lies and they listen to him and they say, I know what he's talking about. I've seen it in my own family, my friends. That could -- they could have some realization that maybe that did motivate him to do all the things, not the killing, but all of the other things.
BLACKWELL: Dianne, I might have to cut you off if we get started. But your expectation of what we'll see from the state as they start this cross examination?
GALLAGHER: I would assume that the state is going to come out right away talking about that video, talking about the fact that he lied and focusing in, as they have done during the past months of testimony, on just how tight of a timeline the prosecution has created using cell phone data, using on star GPS, locating information, things like that. And asking Alex to go through second by second, minute by minute.
He shown --
BLACKWELL: All right, Dianne, we're going back into the courtroom.
CREIGHTON WATERS, PROSECUTOR: Mr. Murdaugh, let's start with a few things I think we can agree on.
ALEX MURDAUGH, MURDER DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
WATERS: You agree that the most important part of your testimony here today is explaining your life for a year and a half, that you were never down at those kennels at 8:44. Would you agree with that?
MURDAUGH: I think all of my testimony is important, Mr. Waters.
WATERS: Would you agree that that's an important part of your testimony?
MURDAUGH: Sure.
WATERS: All right. And would you also agree that the first time that law enforcement officers that you've talked to and the prosecution and here in open court ever heard you say that you lied about being in the kennels was today in this court?
MURDAUGH: Yes, I'm aware of that.
WATERS: You would agree with that?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: All right. All this time later, this is the first time you've ever said that?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
[15:45:08]
WATERS: Then you would agree with me that for years, you were stealing money from clients?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I agree with that.
WATERS: And that you were stealing from your law firm?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I agree with that.
WATERS: And that had been going on since at least 2010?
MURDAUGH: I'm not sure the exact date, but it's been going on a long time. I'll agree with that.
WATERS: What's your best guess of the day?
MURDAUGH: I'm not sure. I don't take a dispute with 2010. I just don't know that for sure.
WATERS: All right. Sure about a lot of things, but you don't know that, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: I'm fine with that date, Mr. Waters. I don't have any reason to dispute it. I'm just not certain of it.
WATERS: All right. Let's just keep on things that we may be able to agree about. And let's talk first about your family's legacy here in the legal profession, OK?
MURDAUGH: Talk about anything you want to.
WATERS: Good. Tell me about your great grandfather. Was he the solicitor for the very circuit that we're in?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: And what was his name?
MURDAUGH: Randolph Murdaugh Sr.
WATERS: All right. What did he go by? Do you know?
MURDAUGH: Randolph.
WATERS: Randolph? And did you ever get to know him or did he pass before --
MURDAUGH: Oh, no, sir. He got killed in 1940.
WATERS: And how long was he solicitor?
MURDAUGH: 20 years.
WATERS: 20 years?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: And then your grandfather, who was that?
MURDAUGH: Randolph Murdaugh Jr.
WATERS: All right. And did he go by -- what did he go by?
MURDAUGH: Buster, that's who Buster is named after my --
WATERS: And was his solicitor?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. He was the solicitor for 46 years. From 1940 he took over when my great granddaddy got killed. And he served until 1986.
WATERS: OK.
MURDAUGH: He was the longest serving prosecutor in the country.
WATERS: And you knew him obviously well, he was your grandfather, correct?
MURDAUGH: Oh, I knew him extremely well and loved him dearly.
WATERS: Idolized him, did you not?
MURDAUGH: Yes. Yes.
WATERS: So he was the prosecutor for all that time as well, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: And then your father, Mr. Randolph, he became solicitor not long after that, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: When my grandfather retired because you weren't allowed to be solicitor after age 72, my dad took over, filled his unexpired term, and then he ran.
WATERS: And he became the chief prosecutor for this area right here as well?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: And how long was he solicitor?
MURDAUGH: From 1986 until 2006.
WATERS: Until 2006?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: I actually worked a case with him about a guy killed a trooper.
MURDAUGH: He's a fine, fine, fine man.
WATERS: Yes, he was.
MURDAUGH: An excellent lawyer.
WATERS: Yes, he was. And he was an excellent lawyer, right?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: That's a big part of your family legacy and your heritage that's so ingrained around here is that history of being the chief prosecutor and being a central part of the legal community, is that correct? Would you agree with that?
MURDAUGH: My family has been a central part of the legal community, yes, sir, I agree with that.
WATERS: All right. And not only just a central part of the legal community, but the chief prosecutor for this area since 1910, I think, up until 2006?
MURDAUGH: 1920.
WATERS: 1920?
MURDAUGH: 2006, 1910 is when my great grandfather started the law firm.
WATERS: The law firm, OK.
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: All right, So 1920 to 2006, correct?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: An unbroken chain of being the chief prosecutor here, correct?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: And then you went to law school as well, is that right?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. WATERS: And when did you graduate from law school?
MURDAUGH: 1994.
WATERS: 1994. And did you ever become a full-time solicitor?
MURDAUGH: No, sir.
WATERS: All right. And so you went into private practice, I think, with Molson Coon (ph), is that right?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, 1994.
WATERS: And then you went to the former law firm that no longer exists because of your activities, correct?
MURDAUGH: I started in 1994 --
WATERS: That's my question, if you would, please first.
MURDAUGH: What was your question?
WATERS: My question was that you started first with Molson Coon, go ahead and answer that one.
MURDAUGH: Yes, that's correct.
WATERS: And then you went to the law firm that doesn't exist anymore that started in '19, but it doesn't exist anymore because of your activities, correct?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: And as far as that of your practice, you were a trial lawyer, correct?
[15:50:03]
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: Successful trial lawyer.
MURDAUGH: I don't know about your adjective, but I was, you know -- I guess so, yes, sir.
WATERS: Do you make millions of dollars in legal fees?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: But you won't tell this jury that's successful.
MURDAUGH: If that's the criteria, yes, sir, I was successful.
WATERS: OK. Well, you won cases, correct?
MURDAUGH: I did win cases. WATERS: Settled cases?
MURDAUGH: Sure, I settled cases.
WATERS: OK. Heard your former law partners say that you were a successful lawyer.
MURDAUGH: I did hear some of them say that.
WATERS: All right. I think you even became president of the Trial Lawyers Association, is that right?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: And when was that?
MURDAUGH: I'm not sure of the exact year, but it would have been in the 2015 range, 2014, '15, '16, somewhere in there.
WATERS: And in that role, you were kind of the president of the association of people who do trial plaintiff's work, right?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: To do jury trials, correct?
MURDAUGH: Well --
WATERS: And that's part of it, right?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, that's part of it.
WATERS: That's part of it. Sitting down, looking jurors in the eyes, and giving a closing argument, is that right?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: And what kind of cases did you normally do? What -- just generally what subject matter?
MURDAUGH: I did all kinds of cases. I did cases that -- I mean, I handled some very big cases. You know, I had a lot of cases where, you know, somebody -- their cable company was billing them $20 more than they should have been, and I handled everything from that to the big cases and everything in between.
WATERS: All right, so the big cases, tell me about those. Those were typically plaintiffs work, all plaintiffs work, correct, for your big cases?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: OK. And plaintiffs work is where -- or there would be, say, for example, automobile or truck accidents, correct? Well that some of it?
MURDAUGH: All -- very big case I ever had was automobile. I mean, no, sir, not all of them were automobile wrecks.
WATERS: Were many of them.
MURDAUGH: Sure.
WATERS: All right. And if they, let's say, your plaintiff collided with, like, a UPS truck or tractor trailer or something like that, you've had cases like that, correct?
MURDAUGH: I have.
WATERS: And they led to very big recoveries, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: The UPS case did I handle?
WATERS: Yes.
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: All right. And as a part of that, developing those types of cases, you were involved in investigating the facts of the case, correct?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: All right. And you were involved in gathering, let's say, telemetry data from automobiles, correct?
MURDAUGH: Telemetry data like you presented in this courtroom this week?
WATERS: Yes. You never did that?
MURDAUGH: I've never had a case specifically where the type data that you all have presented in this case that I've used, but I've had data from automobiles. I've had --
WATERS: From there, essentially, their computer --
MURDAUGH: On star data, I've had data from the black box, you know? But specifically, telemetry data. I don't believe that I've ever had one of those.
WATERS: But on star and black box data, correct?
MURDAUGH: More -- so the black box event recorder, I mean, many times in a wreck, the event recorder will go back and tell you things leading up to the wreck?
WATERS: Sure.
MURDAUGH: So, and I've been in numerous cases where those were involved.
WATERS: And you've had cases where cell phone evidence was relevant to your case? MURDAUGH: Sure.
WATERS: People's call logs were relevant to your case?
MURDAUGH: I have had those.
WATERS: Cell tower location was relevant to your case?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Computer evidence was relevant to your case?
MURDAUGH: I'm sure I have, yes.
WATERS: And when did you start with the law firm?
MURDAUGH: August or September of 1998.
WATERS: All right. And you've been doing essentially that kind of work more or less up until September of 2021, correct?
MURDAUGH: That's correct.
WATERS: To the point where you rose to be the president of the Trial Lawyers Association?
MURDAUGH: I was the president of Trial Lawyers Association in around 2015, as we discussed.
WATERS: So can we agree now on successful?
MURDAUGH: I mean, by those criteria, I was successful, certainly. I mean, we've talked about a lot of my flaws here today, too. Do I feel like I was successful? No, sir. Not sitting here today, I don't.
[15:55:03]
But if you want to use that term on those criteria, I don't have any problem with you saying at that time it looked like I was successful.
WATERS: Do you think people viewed you as a successful lawyer?
MURDAUGH: I'm sure there were a lot of people that did.
WATERS: Do you think people viewed your family as very prominent?
MURDAUGH: I believe that there were a lot of people that did, yes, sir.
WATERS: And did you think that a lot of people viewed you and your family as very prominent in the legal community here?
MURDAUGH: I never thought of myself as prominent.
WATERS: I ask you if you thought if people viewed you that way. Let me ask you this -- MURDAUGH: At the time, did I think people viewed me that way?
WATERS: Yes. Prior to everything happening.
MURDAUGH: No, I don't think that I thought people viewed me as prominent. No, sir.
WATERS: OK.
MURDAUGH: I mean, like a big shot? No, sir. I don't think that.
WATERS: What about your family?
MURDAUGH: My family thought we were big shots. No, sir. I definitely don't think that.
WATERS: (INAUDIBLE) family is prominent in this community.
MURDAUGH: Prominent?
WATERS: Yes.
MURDAUGH: As in?
WATERS: It's not a hard question.
MURDAUGH: Well, I'm just not sure, you know, I think my family was very well thought of. I think my family was respected.
WATERS: Yes.
MURDAUGH: I think my family helped a lot of people.
WATERS: I'm not challenging you on any of that. I'm just getting you to agree what seems to be a basic fact. Would you agree with that?
MURDAUGH: With what? That my family helped a lot of people and was well thought of?
WATERS: That family -- you're prominent.
MURDAUGH: If that's what you mean by that, yes, sir.
WATERS: And that your family had a very long association with law enforcement.
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: And you had a long association with law enforcement?
MURDAUGH: Yes.
WATERS: Yes. OK.
MURDAUGH: My association, I assume you're talking about friendships, yes. WATERS: Not only just friendships, but also professional as well, correct?
MURDAUGH: As a prosecutor --
WATERS: Professional associations with law enforcement.
MURDAUGH: As a prosecutor or as a civil attorney?
WATERS: OK. Let's talk about civil. Did you have associations with them in civil case?
MURDAUGH: Sure. I mean, as we discussed, a lot of cases that I handled were wreck cases or might be a train wreck or tractor, but there were a lot of highway patrolman involved. There were a lot of local law enforcement involved. So, yes, we dealt with a lot of law enforcement in the civil practice.
WATERS: All right. And then you also mentioned that you were a prosecutor as well, correct?
MURDAUGH: I was a volunteer assistant solicitor.
WATERS: All right. Did you or your family or your law firm ever have events or parties or social affairs in which the law enforcement community in this area was invited?
MURDAUGH: I mean, sure. We -- the law firm itself didn't really sponsor things like that.
WATERS: Right.
MURDAUGH: But there would be occasions where one of us in the law firm, and certainly we all had a lot of friends in law enforcement, and they were always invited.
WATERS: OK. And it's a simple point. You had a lot of friends in law enforcement, your family, and you had a long association with the law enforcement community in this circuit, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: Association being friendships and working relationships? Absolutely.
WATERS: OK. All right, well, let's talk about being a prosecutor. When did you become an assistant solicitor?
MURDAUGH: I believe that I became an assistant solicitor when I moved from Buford to Hampton.
WATERS: All right.
MURDAUGH: So that would have been September -- sometime around September 9, 1998. Might have been a little bit after that, but sometime.
WATERS: Did you get a badge when you came an assistant solicitor? MURDAUGH: At some point, I did, yes, sir.
WATERS: And who gave you that badge?
MURDAUGH: My father.
WATERS: Mr. Randolph?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
WATERS: And over the years, did you prosecute criminal cases, much of what's going on here today?
MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, at times I did.
WATERS: All right. And --
MURDAUGH: I believe that I prosecuted from 1998 to 2001. I believe that --
WATERS: 2001? Keep going. I'm sorry.
MURDAUGH: I mean, 2021. I'm sorry. Until 2021 -- from 1998, 2021, I believe I was involved in five jury -- I believe there were five trials.
WATERS: Five trials?
MURDAUGH: Is the best that I can remember. And that all with my dad, that was really the purpose of me being assistant solicitor, was get to spend time with him, do things with him.
WATERS: Sure. And you -- five jury trials over all that time, but you had a badge that entire time, is that correct?
MURDAUGH: I had a badge for a big part of that time, yes, sir.
WATERS: You actually had two badges, right?
MURDAUGH: I had one badge, but when my granddad became an assistant solicitor for my dad, when my dad became the solicitor, he had an assistant solicitor's badge.
WATERS: Right.
